thoughts on single cards:
4 atogs - with 2 temur battle rage in the deck it can represent a one turn ko from as soon as t3, when most decks are tapped out. goes in side vs anything that has blue.
4 somber hoverguard - the 4th used to be a 2nd treasure cruise. not every match is going to fuel tc much, so i feel like the swap is correct for the main deck. usually have no problem in casting it, even as soon as t2 with a proper hand.
2 temur battle rage - i am happy with this amount, i'd never want to draw more than 2, and i have to say it is quite unexpected at the moment.
1 prophetic prism - usually went with 2 terrarion before, prism feels much better as a singleton.
16 lands - adding one land more might be helpful, but still with 16 lands i flood too much for my taste. deck can function even on 2 lands and a drum.
3 raze - fantastic as dnll suggested. sets back very much familiars, tron and bogles, which were the matchups i wanted an edge on after g1. 3 razes and 16 lands are quite risky, though.
techs learned:
if you have a land capsized, try and destroy/sacrifice it in response. if it doesn't resolve it doesn't go back to their hand. same with anything with rebound, or snap.
from here on, i might want to put in 1/2 gurmag angler+2disciple of the vaults, go to 17/18 lands with 4 vault of whispers, pull out treasure cruise for 2 perilous research. i've seen the angler do very well so far against me, and i miss all the tricks i had with perilous research.
any suggestions welcome.
Raze is definitely a card I'm happy to see, it is a really powerful card for the format.
I'm sure a RG deck with Orcish Lumberjack and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss + Raze could win a DE someday since people aren't prepared for that. People tend to keep 2 lands in opener when on the draw and you can completely ruin their first game.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I've been having a lot of luck with this list. Elves is a little annoying, but beyond that I usually just win (I haven't seen tron) unless I hit a mana screw or flood. I wish I could find a more useful land than tree of tales, maybe sub for darksteel citadel? Is there a common manland?
3 flings seem overkill, and disciple of the vault is really useful in the mirror, as atog by itself is usually a kill.
if you struggle vs elves, i'd take out 2 flings for 2 temur battle rage and 2 disciple of the vault for 2 somber hoverguard. getting rid of the black requirement frees you to play darksteel citadels, which are a godsend after game one if your opponent has a gorilla shaman in his sideboard. i'd also try and find some space for carapace forgers, which might help the lack of creatures you might be experiencing (i'm assuming that on the manlands question - nope, no such luck at common).
Fling has won me a TON of games, it usually takes me over the top when there are blockers on the field or if they're holding instant answers to creatures. Fling isn't always a finisher either, I often stack dance with chumps and creatures soon to die.
I side out 2 atogs and 1 fling and bring in 3 shamans vs elves. They are just pesky because they combo out as quickly as we do. I like, battle rage, but if an atog is getting through, they're dead anyways. They tend to block him if he's attacking, and he tends to be big enough (with star/wellspring) to trade favorably/evenly with practically anything in the format.
True I am running fewer creatures, but 14 cantrips/draw outlets, I am not missing creatures. I just feel tree of tales feels a little dead. That is a good point on the gorilla shaman, I will probably swap the ancient grudges out, drop the tree's and add citadels. Or perhaps drop discipe and vaults and go foragers.
I haven't seen a direct mirror yet (only RWUG version using the green and white dudes that get bigger with artifacts)
Back when I ran affinity in T2 and Extended, 4 disciples were a must, but without ravager and modular, 2 feels good. With all the chumps I see, getting a little damage over is nice. Running 4 is indeed too costly in regards to color. Though, often he does seem like over kill, he was such a power house in all the other formats, removing him seems counter intuitive.
my reasoning behind temur battle rage vs fling is that fling is for burning purposes only. moreover, most decks will block atog with one thoughness creatures only, and temur will be a blowout, because you can (possibly) win on the spot, same as fling but without as many artifacts sacrificed.
the other 2 plus sides of temur are making your creatures able to deal with bigger blockers (gurmag angler and fangren marauder come to mind) and not being an assured 2x1 vs counterspells.
people are used to and will play around fling. they will not do so with temur: firstly, it isn't much seen around in affinity, secondly they would be giving you tremendous advantage if you didn't have it in hand.
other reason to play green: rancor. which is also a pain to elves, and all kind of control unless they have an answer when you play it (seeing as you play perilous research, rancor is another target you may sacrifice).
i'm interested in your experiences with 2x disciple of the vault, possibly not in the mirror where it will undoubtely shine.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Really considering running more Darksteel Citadel but colour is a real issue for the deck, do you guys think its worth the colour risk for that tiny chance that it may save you from Shamans and other artifact hates?
On MTGO it seems like people are still running the WURG version. It seems like Fling still has the edge over Temur Battlerage in most lists but I wonder which is better. Battlerage is awesome with Enforcers and Forgers but Fling lets you double up your attack step with an Atog. I guess technically its the same as double strike but you get to keep the Atog with Battlerage. Does anyone have any experience to offer on which one makes the cut?
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this is only speculation, but my gut tells me fling has the edge over battlerage only in matchups where another removal can win the game. as i expect combo (and creatures that need to be killed on sight) to be much less present, i would still be happy to run battlerage.
On MTGO it seems like people are still running the WURG version. It seems like Fling still has the edge over Temur Battlerage in most lists but I wonder which is better. Battlerage is awesome with Enforcers and Forgers but Fling lets you double up your attack step with an Atog. I guess technically its the same as double strike but you get to keep the Atog with Battlerage. Does anyone have any experience to offer on which one makes the cut?
Fling gets the slight edge mainly because some people still play fog.deck online, combat tricks (fling is slightly more reactionary (making it better to get around surprises) and for the random times which you HAVE to remove something.
- - - - - -
Thoughts on Dispel vs Hydroblast and Pyroblast slots?
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I was about to type that you might want to replace Nim Shrieker for Glaze Fiend due to the CmC but I can see that you already made changes - I do think 4x Perilous Research is a bit much (esp. against counters) and at the very least 2x Prophetic Prism should be tossed in because colour constants are a real issue for the deck.
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Ok here are my last 2-sets of BURG Affinity, I've only ever went under 3-2 once which in my opinion is no indicator on my level of skill (if you watch my videos you'll notice a number of sequencing mistakes and questionable plays + sideboards) but rather on how unfair affinity can be at times.
I did try replacing Ancient Den with Darksteel Citadel but I found that it usually isn't enough to stop LD deaths and doesn't do enough to offset the colour constraints.
- - - -
If anyone is interested I wouldn't mind if people posted SB plans so we can discuss the reasoning behind the choices (in/out) you can see my SB plans in those videos (not sure if its correct but it did work).
You can but I really don't think Angelic Purge is something Affinity want to be casting (its much better in Jeskai imo).
I'll second this.
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Here is my version that I 5-0 a league with. This version really punishes control decks that let disciple stick on the board and then i card draw and just flood
hello everyone, i'm being back on mtgo after a long time.
i still found out that fangren marauder (either game 2 or versus tron) is pretty much game unless the opponent is in burn range or the board is filled with threats.
since i still advocate temur battle rage instead of fling, i quickly realized that a card that particularly like double attackers with power > 4 exists...tainted strike
the idea here is going from temur to grixis, and include all that's necessary to get a creature to 4 power.
my main doubt is about losing carapace forger to gain a couple of disciples of the vault and a quicksilver behemoth, i'm not sure if i need the raw power in case plan a doesn't go through. any suggestions?
Yeah it's an auto include for sure and will probably push affinity to have a couple different variants now. I think it outclasses Behemoth by a lot. It's outside of all red removal that goes up to Lightning Axe to handle Angler, and it's 6 toughness allows it to trade with Angler and live. That's quite the package for what will be only costing 2 mana
not that sure about the autoinclusion. running just 3 colors it seldom happens that i don't have access to a single blue, let alone double blue.
i tried behemoth, and the need to resummon it didn't matter (it either was destroyed before end of turn or didn't matter to me to recast it in the second main phase), still, it was the clunkiest piece of the deck. i would assume that an additional u would complicate things further.
any thoughts on the common vehicles instead?
4 Atog
4 Carapace Forger
4 Frogmite
4 Somber Hoberguard
4 Myr Enforcer
Spells: 26
4 Chromatic Star
4 Flayer Husk
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Temur Battle Rage
1 Prophetic Prism
4 Thoughtcast
1 treasure cruise
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
4 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 mox monkey
3 raze
1 treasure cruise
thoughts on single cards:
4 atogs - with 2 temur battle rage in the deck it can represent a one turn ko from as soon as t3, when most decks are tapped out. goes in side vs anything that has blue.
4 somber hoverguard - the 4th used to be a 2nd treasure cruise. not every match is going to fuel tc much, so i feel like the swap is correct for the main deck. usually have no problem in casting it, even as soon as t2 with a proper hand.
2 temur battle rage - i am happy with this amount, i'd never want to draw more than 2, and i have to say it is quite unexpected at the moment.
1 prophetic prism - usually went with 2 terrarion before, prism feels much better as a singleton.
16 lands - adding one land more might be helpful, but still with 16 lands i flood too much for my taste. deck can function even on 2 lands and a drum.
3 raze - fantastic as dnll suggested. sets back very much familiars, tron and bogles, which were the matchups i wanted an edge on after g1. 3 razes and 16 lands are quite risky, though.
techs learned:
if you have a land capsized, try and destroy/sacrifice it in response. if it doesn't resolve it doesn't go back to their hand. same with anything with rebound, or snap.
from here on, i might want to put in 1/2 gurmag angler+2disciple of the vaults, go to 17/18 lands with 4 vault of whispers, pull out treasure cruise for 2 perilous research. i've seen the angler do very well so far against me, and i miss all the tricks i had with perilous research.
any suggestions welcome.
I'm sure a RG deck with Orcish Lumberjack and Mwonvuli Acid-Moss + Raze could win a DE someday since people aren't prepared for that. People tend to keep 2 lands in opener when on the draw and you can completely ruin their first game.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Tree of Tales
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Atog
4 Flayer Husk
1 Somber Hoverguard
4 Chromatic Star
3 Ichor Wellspring
2 Disciple of the Vault
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Fling
2 Perilous Research
1 prophetic prism
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
4 Hydroblast
4 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Doom Blade
I've just been testing on cockatrice
if you struggle vs elves, i'd take out 2 flings for 2 temur battle rage and 2 disciple of the vault for 2 somber hoverguard. getting rid of the black requirement frees you to play darksteel citadels, which are a godsend after game one if your opponent has a gorilla shaman in his sideboard. i'd also try and find some space for carapace forgers, which might help the lack of creatures you might be experiencing (i'm assuming that on the manlands question - nope, no such luck at common).
I side out 2 atogs and 1 fling and bring in 3 shamans vs elves. They are just pesky because they combo out as quickly as we do. I like, battle rage, but if an atog is getting through, they're dead anyways. They tend to block him if he's attacking, and he tends to be big enough (with star/wellspring) to trade favorably/evenly with practically anything in the format.
True I am running fewer creatures, but 14 cantrips/draw outlets, I am not missing creatures. I just feel tree of tales feels a little dead. That is a good point on the gorilla shaman, I will probably swap the ancient grudges out, drop the tree's and add citadels. Or perhaps drop discipe and vaults and go foragers.
I haven't seen a direct mirror yet (only RWUG version using the green and white dudes that get bigger with artifacts)
Back when I ran affinity in T2 and Extended, 4 disciples were a must, but without ravager and modular, 2 feels good. With all the chumps I see, getting a little damage over is nice. Running 4 is indeed too costly in regards to color. Though, often he does seem like over kill, he was such a power house in all the other formats, removing him seems counter intuitive.
the other 2 plus sides of temur are making your creatures able to deal with bigger blockers (gurmag angler and fangren marauder come to mind) and not being an assured 2x1 vs counterspells.
people are used to and will play around fling. they will not do so with temur: firstly, it isn't much seen around in affinity, secondly they would be giving you tremendous advantage if you didn't have it in hand.
other reason to play green: rancor. which is also a pain to elves, and all kind of control unless they have an answer when you play it (seeing as you play perilous research, rancor is another target you may sacrifice).
i'm interested in your experiences with 2x disciple of the vault, possibly not in the mirror where it will undoubtely shine.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
4 Atog
4 Carapace Forger
4 Frogmite
3 Somber Hoberguard
4 Myr Enforcer
Spells: 25
4 Chromatic Star
4 Flayer Husk
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Temur Battle Rage
1 Prophetic Prism
4 Thoughtcast
2 Artificer's Epiphany
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
4 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 mox monkey
3 raze
1 somber hoverguard
haven't been playing the deck much lately, so i wouldn't know if the meta shifted enough to warrant other modifications.
Ooo here are some games I played (I have no idea what I'm doing):
G1 Husk Affiniy vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G2 Kuldotha Jeskai vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G3 Stompy vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G4 Naya Aggro vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G5 W Tokens vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
Still don't know what I'm doing:
G1 Angler Delver vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G2 Husk Affinity vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G3 Red Aggro vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G4 Stompy vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G5 Angler Delver vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
- - - - - -
Thoughts on Dispel vs Hydroblast and Pyroblast slots?
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
- - - - -
Ok here are my last 2-sets of BURG Affinity, I've only ever went under 3-2 once which in my opinion is no indicator on my level of skill (if you watch my videos you'll notice a number of sequencing mistakes and questionable plays + sideboards) but rather on how unfair affinity can be at times.
League 3 (video links)
G1 UR Counter Burn vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
G2 Mirror Pauper LE 3
G3 Angler Delver vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
G4 Goblins vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
G5 Kuldotha Jeskai vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
League 4 (video links)
G1 Delver Fiend vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G2 Kuldotha Jeskai vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G3 Temur Tron vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G4 Mono Black Control vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G5 Delver Fiend vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
- - - - - -
The next few sets of videos will be:
4 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
Creatures 20
4 Atog
4 Carapace Forger
4 Somber Hoverguard
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Chromatic Star
4 Flayer Husk
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Prophetic Prism
Spells 10
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Fling
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
2 Pyroblast
2 Hydroblast
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Mulldrifter
1 Dispel
I did try replacing Ancient Den with Darksteel Citadel but I found that it usually isn't enough to stop LD deaths and doesn't do enough to offset the colour constraints.
- - - -
If anyone is interested I wouldn't mind if people posted SB plans so we can discuss the reasoning behind the choices (in/out) you can see my SB plans in those videos (not sure if its correct but it did work).
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
Creatures 18
4 Atog
4 Carapace Forger
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 Mulldrifter
4 Chromatic Star
4 Flayer Husk
3 Prophetic Prism
4 Springleaf Drum
Spells 10
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
2 Fling
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
3 Pyroblast
2 Journey to Nowhere
2 Hydroblast
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Armadillo Cloak
1 Ancient Grudge
I really do like the idea of Ray of Revelation but I don't see enough tortured existence or auras to justify them during my timezone.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Ooo here are some games I played (I have no idea what I'm doing):
G1 Husk Affiniy vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G2 Kuldotha Jeskai vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G3 Stompy vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G4 Naya Aggro vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
G5 W Tokens vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 1
League 2 Video Report:
Still don't know what I'm doing:
G1 Angler Delver vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G2 Husk Affinity vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G3 Red Aggro vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G4 Stompy vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
G5 Angler Delver vs Disciple Affinity Pauper LE 2
League 3 Video Report:
G1 UR Counter Burn vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
G2 Mirror Pauper LE 3
G3 Angler Delver vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
G4 Goblins vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
G5 Kuldotha Jeskai vs Disciple Affiniy Pauper LE 3
League 4 Video Report:
G1 Delver Fiend vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G2 Kuldotha Jeskai vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G3 Temur Tron vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G4 Mono Black Control vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
G5 Delver Fiend vs Disciple Affinity Pauper League LE 4
Here are some video reports with sideboarding included (if people can tell me if I'm sideboarding wrong or not i'll be glad):
League 5:
G1 WU vs Affinity Pauper League LE 5
G2 Burn vs Affinity Pauper League LE 5
G3 UB Gifts vs Affinity Pauper League LE 5
G4 Mirror Pauper League LE 5
G5 Mirror Pauper League LE 5
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I'll second this.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/431378#online
4 Vault Skirge
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Atog
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
Instants (8):
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Assert Authority
Sorcery (5):
2 Hunger of the Nim
3 Thoughtcast
4 Chromatic Star
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Flayer Husk
Lands (16):
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Dispel
2 Chainer's Edict
4 Hydroblast
4 Pyroblast
3 Krark-Clan Shaman
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Nihil Spellbomb
i still found out that fangren marauder (either game 2 or versus tron) is pretty much game unless the opponent is in burn range or the board is filled with threats.
since i still advocate temur battle rage instead of fling, i quickly realized that a card that particularly like double attackers with power > 4 exists...tainted strike
please help me out here:
4 Atog
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
2 disciple of the vault
1 quicksilver behemoth
Spells: 27
4 Chromatic Star
4 Flayer Husk
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Springleaf Drum
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 tainted strike
2 Prophetic Prism
4 Thoughtcast
1 bonesplitter
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tree of Tales
4 vault of whispers
2 electrickery
4 Pyroblast
3 hydroblast
2 doom blade
2 gorilla shaman
the idea here is going from temur to grixis, and include all that's necessary to get a creature to 4 power.
my main doubt is about losing carapace forger to gain a couple of disciples of the vault and a quicksilver behemoth, i'm not sure if i need the raw power in case plan a doesn't go through. any suggestions?
Anyone else notice the sneaky little affinity inclusion? Slightly harder to cast than Quicksilver Behemoth but doesn't need to be recast and +1/+1
i tried behemoth, and the need to resummon it didn't matter (it either was destroyed before end of turn or didn't matter to me to recast it in the second main phase), still, it was the clunkiest piece of the deck. i would assume that an additional u would complicate things further.
any thoughts on the common vehicles instead?