How do I beat this deck? It's really the only one I've had major trouble with (I think I'm 0-4 for matches overall) while playing Mono-Black Control. What does this deck hate to see and can Mono-B provide it?
Neither of those cards are good enough for a Teachings deck, so by extension Cavern Harpy doesn't make a lot of sense. No matter how awesome Cavern Harpy is.
How do I beat this deck? It's really the only one I've had major trouble with (I think I'm 0-4 for matches overall) while playing Mono-Black Control. What does this deck hate to see and can Mono-B provide it?
Mono-Black Control is an extremely linear deck with very few tricks beyond grinding out 3-drops. So it should be possible for a countermagic-based deck to just thrash the hell out of it. Any deck that has been around for 3+ years should be solveable by some sort of control deck.
I didn't take the cake tonight, but I did still get top 4. I played Delver, MBC, Stompy, Delver, Infect, Delver in that order. my only losses were one delver in swiss and the same delver player in top4. I beat one delver in the swiss. Can't win em' all I guess. I don't think anything really needs changed, because my delver opponents got some pretty spectacular draws even the one I beat drew 4 counters in a row while in top deck mode with a ninja. The only change I've made to the deck is capsize in the sideboard over the augur to hit random stuff like opposing Curse, and cards that could exile our creatures like oubliette and Journey. It's also not bad at bouncing random karoos,etc. Maybe delver could use a little more attention, but I just think I had some case of the magic gods wanting to take a dump on me, because having as much 1 mana removal and sweeps as the deck does I find it hard to believe it's a design flaw.
How could we deal to faeries? They have got counters and cheap creatures, Ninja of the Deep hours is a headache. I have played against this deck and is not easy to win.
Delver will never be an "easy" matchup. Even with all the 1 mana removal it can be tough because all that removal falls right into SSS. Best thing to do is wait as much as you can so that you can cast multiple spells to force through any permission/ tricks they may have. the matchup takes some practice, but always try to bait their ninja, and if you can help it save your spot removal for ninja, delver, and golem. SSS and CoF can be swept with Wail of the Nim or rats on 1.
I made a small tweak to the maindeck, and the sideboard.
- Faerie Trickery
- Impulse
+ Prohibit
+ Deep Analysis
big reasons are the PRE metagame is starting to look like the "real" metagame, and very heavy on MBC and Delver. Prohibit is a better counter than trickery for delver, and Deep Analysis is a better card for MBC than impulse, and just good overall. Trickery also becomes less useful as less graveyard decks are around which I had originally had it in there for.
Sideboard changes are just having Capsize in place of Augur of Skulls. after more testing I didn't really like the loop because against the matchups where you would want it they would otherwise have a dead card in their hand(removal), and capsize helps against opposing Curses, and other random permanents like journey, etc.
obZen, I am currently playing your most recent Teachings list and I'm having trouble. For some reason I always get very close to stabilizing but then I end up losing. I'm using a white splash in my sideboard instead of a green splash (COP: red and 1 Disenchant right now). It could be down to mulligan decisions / play mistakes / sideboard decisions, but something is stopping me. Would you happen to know of a good guide to playing this deck? I'm a little out of practice since I haven't really played seriously in about 2 years, but I'm looking to use Pauper to eventually move into Modern and (maybe) other formats. I really love the idea of Mystical Teachings, and I'll probably try using it in Modern when I get the $$ for it, but I can't seem to make it work. Any advice?
obZen, I am currently playing your most recent Teachings list and I'm having trouble. For some reason I always get very close to stabilizing but then I end up losing. I'm using a white splash in my sideboard instead of a green splash (COP: red and 1 Disenchant right now). It could be down to mulligan decisions / play mistakes / sideboard decisions, but something is stopping me. Would you happen to know of a good guide to playing this deck? I'm a little out of practice since I haven't really played seriously in about 2 years, but I'm looking to use Pauper to eventually move into Modern and (maybe) other formats. I really love the idea of Mystical Teachings, and I'll probably try using it in Modern when I get the $$ for it, but I can't seem to make it work. Any advice?
For the record I don't know a good guide to play teachings tailored for pauper, but it is something I've been working on publishing for the near future. General rules of thumb are just try to not tapout, take damage before using instant speed removal if you're also holding permission ninjas are the only exception, teach for your next play in non-permission matchup, teach for teach in permission matchup, always flashback teach for teach to keep the chain going, if you need to brainstorm for lands do it mainphase after a draw step not eot unless you havve 2.
Hopefully that's a good enough jumping point since I don't know your background. If not I'll be sure to add more if you have more specific questions. I should get back to playing this weekend( I've been on vacation),and I'll be trying to get teachings back in the meta.
Hey thanks for the quick response :). Those are definitely some good tips. I have a history of playing control in Magic, but I have never played with Mystical Teachings before this. I do also have some specific questions.
1. Is it correct to Teachings for card draw if I'm not under a lot of pressure?
2. You say to Teachings for your next play. Does that mean I should usually cast Teachings if I don't have another card to cast, even if I could wait for more information?
3. In terms of using Grim Harvest, should I try to always wait until I can pay for the recover cost before I put it at risk of getting exiled? This is the card that I'm the least sure about using. I know it's powerful, but I just haven't used anything like it before.
I'll probably have more questions, but that's all for now :). Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it.
1. Yes, although I'd typically not advise teaching for the first ak. So teach for teach should be the line if you don't have ak already started. Teaching for bs is a rare occasion, but useful if you have what you need mostly but need to dig for something like a creature or post board with erasure so that you can mill more.
2. There are 2 scenarios I'm talking about when I say teach for your next play.
- teach for something that makes your opponents next (potential) best play seem worse (this buys turns) example teaching for an exclude on an empty board against a creature deck.
- teach for something that makes your next play better. Example being teaching for a counter
so that you can play something with protection.
3. Grim Harvest is fairly simple. Unless you're otherwise going to die you should never let your harvest exile. It is worth mentioning that if push comes to shove and you have to lose harvest in order to stabilize then be sure to do it ,but just make sure you can still win.
Excellent information, thanks obZen. I'll try putting it to use later today, after I get home from work. If I think of any more questions I'll let you know
Sorry to double post, but I have some info to report. Up until now, I would win games every once in a while with this deck, but never a full match. Yesterday, after reading your advice, I went 2-0 against MBC and 2-0 against a mono red tron deck. I also went 1-0 against RUG tron, but my wife's birthday was yesterday and I had to leave in the middle of game 2. I was stabilized, had the engine running, and everything was set up for me to win. MBC and RUG tron are two decks that I've lost miserably to before. Thanks a lot, obZen, for the deck list and the help with play decisions. It has helped a lot and I finally feel ready to do some actual daily events with the deck. Let me know when you get your UB Teachings guide up, if you're still working on it :).
Hi everyone!!! I've been trying to build a solid Teachings list to get the archetype back in MTGO metagame. I'm relatively new on MTGO but I've been playing Teachings in paper last year. I'm posting my actual list to try to get some tips about the choices to make the deck more competitive.
I played UB control for a while and I think playing Mystical Teachings gives the deck a lot more flexibility and helps us to run silver bullets even maindeck.
Now: ideally I would run Accumulated Knowledge over Think Twice but I don't know if it's worth the tix.
I'm wondering if I'm playing too many counters and I don't know how I feel about Stormbound Geist in the sideboard which I think is more a card I would run in Delver decks.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
EDIT: other questions are: should I run 1 Grim Harvest even if it only has Mulldrifter as a good target? And are 5 fetches good enough to run 4 Brainstorm?
Hi everyone!!! I've been trying to build a solid Teachings list to get the archetype back in MTGO metagame. I'm relatively new on MTGO but I've been playing Teachings in paper last year. I'm posting my actual list to try to get some tips about the choices to make the deck more competitive.
I played UB control for a while and I think playing Mystical Teachings gives the deck a lot more flexibility and helps us to run silver bullets even maindeck.
Welcome to the club. Teachings is a dying breed for sure, so I appreciate your enthusiasm for the archetype as I feel it's the best control option hardly anyone is playing. I just happen to be one of the few left holding up the fort.
This is the list I'm testing,
Now: ideally I would run Accumulated Knowledge over Think Twice but I don't know if it's worth the tix.
This is the best deck to utilize Accumulated Knowledge. You teach for them and you draw lots of cards; it's like a slow version of intuition for AK which is pretty awesome. I was in the TT or AK boat for a long time until I figured out that I just wanted both near the end of Treasure Cruise's reign.
I'm wondering if I'm playing too many counters and I don't know how I feel about Stormbound Geist in the sideboard which I think is more a card I would run in Delver decks.
12 counters isn't "too many", but I personally like to stay in the 9-11 range. Stormbound geist isn't a bad card against delver in fact; it's very good there. My biggest issue with your list is how many expensive cards you have in it and how few lands you have(Capsize and Mulldrifters with 18 lands is a pretty far reach). I don't think Angler is a very good finisher without some sort of recursion like Grim Harvest. Mulldrifters are also very clunky and I've moved all the way down to 1 in my build. there's just better ways to create card advantage for the most part in this deck.
EDIT: other questions are: should I run 1 Grim Harvest even if it only has Mulldrifter as a good target? And are 5 fetches good enough to run 4 Brainstorm?
Yes, run Grim Harvest. I can't say for certain Brainstorm and 5 fetches is wrong, but I play 6.
This is what I came up after a few hours of games yesterday.
Capsize anyway felt a bit too slow because often I had to cast it without buyback.
I used to play UB control without Teachings and with the Mental Note, Thought Scour engine to be able to cast early Gurmag Angler but I gave up mainly because Mystical Teachings makes the token matchup a lot better.
I went up to 20 lands and Grim Harest + Mulldrifter honestly won me a few games (I played 3x in the first matches) so thanks for the advice! I cut the Soul Manipulation merely because sometimes 3 mana is a bit too much but the 2nd effect sometimes is good so I'm not totally sold on that.
The only deck I'm not very comfortable playing against is Mono Blue Delver. It just has too many early threats and it seems every spell resolving from their side of the table is just game breaking. I mean, even Cloud of Faries is huge because they can cast Spellstutter Sprite on your 2 drops.
I had this crazy idea to play more black sources to fit Chittering Rats which seems kind of broken to me. Maybe if we could play more creatures we could take advantage of Ninja of the Deep Hours too and try to get the advantage from that.
I think Exclude in 2x over some Remove Soul could help.
Regarding your thoughts to play both AK and TT, I just don't feel so confident: I mean, often I have like 3 TT in hand when instead I really need counter backup or a removal and can't really tap out to cast it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: UBWEsper Dragons
Modern: RUGWBTL Scapeshift UWBAd Nauseam GraceU Mono U Tron
Legacy: UWRMiracles
Vintage: UBRTPS
Anyone still here? If so, I was wondering if people would mind posting their lists? New to the deck and trying to get a feel for what people play/have had success with.
How do you think we can improve our first matchup against MBC? It feels like recurring a Gurmag Angler with Grim harvest is our best option but kind of slow.
How do you think we can improve our first matchup against MBC? It feels like recurring a Gurmag Angler with Grim harvest is our best option but kind of slow.
I haven't played much with UB Teachings, but I was under the impression that MBC is a great matchup since all of their removal is dead.
Spell stutter is good when you are trying to win the game relatively quickly. In delver it is good because Delver already plays some number of faeries and also is trying to beat down with flyers. This deck wants to sit back and doesn't care about winning until it can completely control you, so a 1/1 that turns on the opponant's removal is not great. Plus, it might happen that you cast sprite to counter something and they just bolt it in response and you don't gain anything. It is much more of a tempo card than a control card I believe
This is a screenshot of one of the craziest Pauper games I've ever had. I had to upload this after the match. It was game 3 of a league match and my opponent was sure I would deck myself. I was sweating the fact that I was down to 5 cards in library and I still hadn't drawn an Evincar's Justiceor a Curse of the Bloody Tome. I was dreading losing the match because all of my kill cons were in the last two cards of my library. However, I drew Evincar's Justice with my opponent at around 18 life and me with 3 cards in library. Was able to barely kill him while I had no cards left in deck. Technically my opponent killed himself in response to my last Evincar's Justice by casting Fling on a Carapace Forger, but who cares? Who says you need dedicated win cons in Teachings? hahaha
What do you guys bring in for the mirror? It seems like it comes down to who draws more counters g1, and who gets the teachings engine going first. Is there any sideboard card besides counters / alternate win cons that you feel make the mirror favorable to you?
I usually add 2 Dispels and every extra counter/discard effect I have.
Let's be real - in the mirror, the clock is going to be your most reliable wincon.
That's what I've noticed as well. I play grixis teachings, and feel that we're not favored against some UB variants. I bring in 3 Dispel, 1Pyroblast, 2 Curse of the Bloody Tome, as well as a 1 Duress. I'm not sure what else I could consider. My main deck is adjusted towards my meta filled with midrange and aggro decks, but leaves me prone to the mirror game one. I guess I'll just have to accept that you can't have a decent match against everything.
Use a build that runs 4 Accumulated Knowledge and 4 Think Twice. It will help in the mirror and against mono black. In the mirror you want Duress and more counters to fight over Curse of the Bloody Tome. The first deck to stick that card wins. That is why you also need cards like Capsize and Recoil to bounce a resolved Curse if you have to.
Neither of those cards are good enough for a Teachings deck, so by extension Cavern Harpy doesn't make a lot of sense. No matter how awesome Cavern Harpy is.
Mono-Black Control is an extremely linear deck with very few tricks beyond grinding out 3-drops. So it should be possible for a countermagic-based deck to just thrash the hell out of it. Any deck that has been around for 3+ years should be solveable by some sort of control deck.
WU Rhystic Tron WU
WUBRG Snow-Go WUBRG
Delver will never be an "easy" matchup. Even with all the 1 mana removal it can be tough because all that removal falls right into SSS. Best thing to do is wait as much as you can so that you can cast multiple spells to force through any permission/ tricks they may have. the matchup takes some practice, but always try to bait their ninja, and if you can help it save your spot removal for ninja, delver, and golem. SSS and CoF can be swept with Wail of the Nim or rats on 1.
I made a small tweak to the maindeck, and the sideboard.
- Faerie Trickery
- Impulse
+ Prohibit
+ Deep Analysis
big reasons are the PRE metagame is starting to look like the "real" metagame, and very heavy on MBC and Delver. Prohibit is a better counter than trickery for delver, and Deep Analysis is a better card for MBC than impulse, and just good overall. Trickery also becomes less useful as less graveyard decks are around which I had originally had it in there for.
Sideboard changes are just having Capsize in place of Augur of Skulls. after more testing I didn't really like the loop because against the matchups where you would want it they would otherwise have a dead card in their hand(removal), and capsize helps against opposing Curses, and other random permanents like journey, etc.
2 Crypt Rats
1 Mulldrifter
1 Twisted Abomination
// Spells
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Exclude
4 Innocent Blood
3 Mystical Teachings
2 Disfigure
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Prohibit
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Grim Harvest
1 Deep Analysis
1 Prohibit
1 Wail of the Nim
8 Island
4 Dimir Guildgate
4 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Brindle Boar
2 Hydroblast
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Curse of the Bloody Tome
1 Capsize
1 Negate
1 Forest
1 Dispel
1 Coffin Purge
1 Agony Warp
WU Rhystic Tron WU
WUBRG Snow-Go WUBRG
For the record I don't know a good guide to play teachings tailored for pauper, but it is something I've been working on publishing for the near future. General rules of thumb are just try to not tapout, take damage before using instant speed removal if you're also holding permission ninjas are the only exception, teach for your next play in non-permission matchup, teach for teach in permission matchup, always flashback teach for teach to keep the chain going, if you need to brainstorm for lands do it mainphase after a draw step not eot unless you havve 2.
Hopefully that's a good enough jumping point since I don't know your background. If not I'll be sure to add more if you have more specific questions. I should get back to playing this weekend( I've been on vacation),and I'll be trying to get teachings back in the meta.
Goodluck!
WU Rhystic Tron WU
WUBRG Snow-Go WUBRG
1. Is it correct to Teachings for card draw if I'm not under a lot of pressure?
2. You say to Teachings for your next play. Does that mean I should usually cast Teachings if I don't have another card to cast, even if I could wait for more information?
3. In terms of using Grim Harvest, should I try to always wait until I can pay for the recover cost before I put it at risk of getting exiled? This is the card that I'm the least sure about using. I know it's powerful, but I just haven't used anything like it before.
I'll probably have more questions, but that's all for now :). Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it.
1. Yes, although I'd typically not advise teaching for the first ak. So teach for teach should be the line if you don't have ak already started. Teaching for bs is a rare occasion, but useful if you have what you need mostly but need to dig for something like a creature or post board with erasure so that you can mill more.
2. There are 2 scenarios I'm talking about when I say teach for your next play.
- teach for something that makes your opponents next (potential) best play seem worse (this buys turns) example teaching for an exclude on an empty board against a creature deck.
- teach for something that makes your next play better. Example being teaching for a counter
so that you can play something with protection.
3. Grim Harvest is fairly simple. Unless you're otherwise going to die you should never let your harvest exile. It is worth mentioning that if push comes to shove and you have to lose harvest in order to stabilize then be sure to do it ,but just make sure you can still win.
WU Rhystic Tron WU
WUBRG Snow-Go WUBRG
I played UB control for a while and I think playing Mystical Teachings gives the deck a lot more flexibility and helps us to run silver bullets even maindeck.
This is the list I'm testing:
4 Evolving Wilds
7 Island
2 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Brainstorm
3 Disfigure
1 Essence Scatter
4 Remove Soul
4 Think Twice
4 Counterspell
2 Deprive
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Doom Blade
1 Echoing Decay
1 Agony Warp
1 Capsize
1 Soul Manipulation
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Repeal
4 Mulldrifter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Annul
2 Dispel
3 Duress
2 Chainer's Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Echoing Decay
2 Stormbound Geist
1 Wail of the Nim
Now: ideally I would run Accumulated Knowledge over Think Twice but I don't know if it's worth the tix.
I'm wondering if I'm playing too many counters and I don't know how I feel about Stormbound Geist in the sideboard which I think is more a card I would run in Delver decks.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
EDIT: other questions are: should I run 1 Grim Harvest even if it only has Mulldrifter as a good target? And are 5 fetches good enough to run 4 Brainstorm?
Modern: RUGWBTL Scapeshift UWBAd Nauseam GraceU Mono U Tron
Legacy: UWRMiracles
Vintage: UBRTPS
Welcome to the club. Teachings is a dying breed for sure, so I appreciate your enthusiasm for the archetype as I feel it's the best control option hardly anyone is playing. I just happen to be one of the few left holding up the fort.
This is the best deck to utilize Accumulated Knowledge. You teach for them and you draw lots of cards; it's like a slow version of intuition for AK which is pretty awesome. I was in the TT or AK boat for a long time until I figured out that I just wanted both near the end of Treasure Cruise's reign.
12 counters isn't "too many", but I personally like to stay in the 9-11 range. Stormbound geist isn't a bad card against delver in fact; it's very good there. My biggest issue with your list is how many expensive cards you have in it and how few lands you have(Capsize and Mulldrifters with 18 lands is a pretty far reach). I don't think Angler is a very good finisher without some sort of recursion like Grim Harvest. Mulldrifters are also very clunky and I've moved all the way down to 1 in my build. there's just better ways to create card advantage for the most part in this deck.
Yes, run Grim Harvest. I can't say for certain Brainstorm and 5 fetches is wrong, but I play 6.
WU Rhystic Tron WU
WUBRG Snow-Go WUBRG
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Dimir Guildgate
7 Island
2 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Brainstorm
3 Disfigure
4 Remove Soul
4 Think Twice
4 Counterspell
2 Deprive
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Doom Blade
1 Echoing Decay
1 Agony Warp
1 Capsize
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Repeal
1 Grim Harvest
4 Gurmag Angler
1 Mulldrifter
2 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Essence Scatter
2 Dispel
3 Duress
2 Chainer's Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Echoing Decay
2 Stormbound Geist
1 Wail of the Nim
This is what I came up after a few hours of games yesterday.
Capsize anyway felt a bit too slow because often I had to cast it without buyback.
I used to play UB control without Teachings and with the Mental Note, Thought Scour engine to be able to cast early Gurmag Angler but I gave up mainly because Mystical Teachings makes the token matchup a lot better.
I went up to 20 lands and Grim Harest + Mulldrifter honestly won me a few games (I played 3x in the first matches) so thanks for the advice! I cut the Soul Manipulation merely because sometimes 3 mana is a bit too much but the 2nd effect sometimes is good so I'm not totally sold on that.
The only deck I'm not very comfortable playing against is Mono Blue Delver. It just has too many early threats and it seems every spell resolving from their side of the table is just game breaking. I mean, even Cloud of Faries is huge because they can cast Spellstutter Sprite on your 2 drops.
I had this crazy idea to play more black sources to fit Chittering Rats which seems kind of broken to me. Maybe if we could play more creatures we could take advantage of Ninja of the Deep Hours too and try to get the advantage from that.
I think Exclude in 2x over some Remove Soul could help.
Regarding your thoughts to play both AK and TT, I just don't feel so confident: I mean, often I have like 3 TT in hand when instead I really need counter backup or a removal and can't really tap out to cast it.
Modern: RUGWBTL Scapeshift UWBAd Nauseam GraceU Mono U Tron
Legacy: UWRMiracles
Vintage: UBRTPS
Here's my version.
2 Mulldrifter
1 Crypt Rats
1 Twisted Abomination
Draw/ Tutor (12)
4 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Deep Analysis
Removal/ Bounce (10)
2 Innocent Blood
2 Disfigure
4 Chainer's Edict
1 Evincar's Justice
1 Capsize
4 Counterspell
2 Mana Leak
1 Prohibit
Other (4)
2 Pristine Talisman
1 Crypt Incursion
1 Grim Harvest
Lands (23)
4 Dismal Backwater
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
7 Island
7 Swamp
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Crypt Rats
2 Curse of the Bloody Tome
2 Devour Flesh
2 Dispel
3 Hydroblast
1 Wail of the Nim
1 Innocent Blood
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
How do you think we can improve our first matchup against MBC? It feels like recurring a Gurmag Angler with Grim harvest is our best option but kind of slow.
I haven't played much with UB Teachings, but I was under the impression that MBC is a great matchup since all of their removal is dead.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Twitch Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/zdeathblow
Let's be real - in the mirror, the clock is going to be your most reliable wincon.
That's what I've noticed as well. I play grixis teachings, and feel that we're not favored against some UB variants. I bring in 3 Dispel, 1Pyroblast, 2 Curse of the Bloody Tome, as well as a 1 Duress. I'm not sure what else I could consider. My main deck is adjusted towards my meta filled with midrange and aggro decks, but leaves me prone to the mirror game one. I guess I'll just have to accept that you can't have a decent match against everything.
Twitch Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/zdeathblow