Land destruction. Yes, I'm sure this has been discussed Ad Nauseum, but I'd like to try and make a few points as to why I believe it is not right to "pseuodo-ban" land destruction as it seems many playgroups have done.
Note: Everything I will mention in this thread applies to what I like to call a "semi-competitive" metagame, meaning nobody is playing super broken combo decks and the like, but people still tune their decks and use relatively powerful commanders (think Prossh, Prime Speaker Zegana, Maelstrom Wanderer, Azusa, etc). Chances are if you go to a random LGS, or join a Cockatrice game, people will be playing decks around this power level. Furthermore, I'm only going to argue in favor of well-timed, strategically played MLD spells, I know nobody likes the guy who plays a random Jokulhaups for no reason.
Anyway, here's a few points about land destruction I'd like to make:
1) Land destruction is only "unfun" if you haven't built your deck properly. The #1 argument against MLD cards like Armageddon is that they "slow the game down" and "stop you from playing Magic". Neither of these is really true. Unless you've built a deck with an average CMC of 5 (which unfortunately more and more EDH players are doing) then an MLD spell will "slow" the game down at most a few turns while people rebuild their land base, and even then if you've actually built up a board state you'll still have plenty to do. In fact, a well timed geddon can actually speed up the game in many circumstances.
2) Removing land destruction makes ramp too powerful. Right now ramp decks (particularly the U/G variety) dominate multiplayer EDH. In a meta without MLD or combo, they are by far the most powerful, which is not a surprise. You take away some Red and White's best strategies (land destruction spells) and let blue and green and black keep all of theirs, then no wonder red and white seem like weaker colors! I don't think it's ok to just disallow a certain strategy while allowing similary powerful ones. If my Isamaru deck loses Armageddon but your Damia deck gets to keep Demonic Tutor, Cyclonic Rift, and Skyshroud Claim...that's a problem.
3) Some archetypes rely on land destruction to be good. Voltron and aggro decks need it to be truly competitive with ramp and control decks. No matter how well built an aggro decks is, and how much pressure it's capable of giving in the early game, in a multiplayer game sooner or later the ramp player is going to cast some big bomb like Cyclonic Rift that sets the aggro deck back to square one. The only real way to stop this from happening if you're the aggro player is to blow up everyone's lands before it happens.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Now that Tron bases are established and people are trying it out in all sorts of different ways, I think it's high time a mono-green version came out. Reap and Sow, Thermokarst and the like. Backed up with lots of artifacts and Fangren Marauder to stymie faster decks, I think something good could come out of this.
Does exiling lands count (not mudhole)? I play with a dude who plays a Liquimetal Coating, targets lands with it, and exiles them with stuff like Into the Core . You can't get the lands back.
Your choice of creatures leave to be desired. Are gary and Wtiches enough to win the game by themselves? Ghitu Slinger and Petravark, wow.
The important thing to remember is that you'll never completely land-lock your opponent. Pauper is fast; plenty of 1-drops. And the creature quality is extremely high. having recurring damage like the witches is really great for that on top of massive amounts of removal.
I would replace the Firebolts with Flame Jab here. I've really becomes a fan of that card. I'm also positive there are some better creatures to choose from in red. There has to be.
I just thought of a really good suggestion for your Black deck: Chittering Rats, it puts a card back on top of their library, guaranteeing that it won't be a land that turn. That's value right there. On top of a much needed creature. Gonna check if there are others like this at common (Stunted Growth-LLL-style).
Because spending two cards to destroy one land, even if it's on the first turn, is a terrible play. Permanent sources of ramp are good; temporary sources of ramp to destroy lands is distinct card disadvantage, and you feel it particularly well with land destruction.
Note: Everything I will mention in this thread applies to what I like to call a "semi-competitive" metagame, meaning nobody is playing super broken combo decks and the like, but people still tune their decks and use relatively powerful commanders (think Prossh, Prime Speaker Zegana, Maelstrom Wanderer, Azusa, etc). Chances are if you go to a random LGS, or join a Cockatrice game, people will be playing decks around this power level. Furthermore, I'm only going to argue in favor of well-timed, strategically played MLD spells, I know nobody likes the guy who plays a random Jokulhaups for no reason.
Anyway, here's a few points about land destruction I'd like to make:
1) Land destruction is only "unfun" if you haven't built your deck properly. The #1 argument against MLD cards like Armageddon is that they "slow the game down" and "stop you from playing Magic". Neither of these is really true. Unless you've built a deck with an average CMC of 5 (which unfortunately more and more EDH players are doing) then an MLD spell will "slow" the game down at most a few turns while people rebuild their land base, and even then if you've actually built up a board state you'll still have plenty to do. In fact, a well timed geddon can actually speed up the game in many circumstances.
2) Removing land destruction makes ramp too powerful. Right now ramp decks (particularly the U/G variety) dominate multiplayer EDH. In a meta without MLD or combo, they are by far the most powerful, which is not a surprise. You take away some Red and White's best strategies (land destruction spells) and let blue and green and black keep all of theirs, then no wonder red and white seem like weaker colors! I don't think it's ok to just disallow a certain strategy while allowing similary powerful ones. If my Isamaru deck loses Armageddon but your Damia deck gets to keep Demonic Tutor, Cyclonic Rift, and Skyshroud Claim...that's a problem.
3) Some archetypes rely on land destruction to be good. Voltron and aggro decks need it to be truly competitive with ramp and control decks. No matter how well built an aggro decks is, and how much pressure it's capable of giving in the early game, in a multiplayer game sooner or later the ramp player is going to cast some big bomb like Cyclonic Rift that sets the aggro deck back to square one. The only real way to stop this from happening if you're the aggro player is to blow up everyone's lands before it happens.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
(I think this was posted to the wrong group).
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Now that Tron bases are established and people are trying it out in all sorts of different ways, I think it's high time a mono-green version came out. Reap and Sow, Thermokarst and the like. Backed up with lots of artifacts and Fangren Marauder to stymie faster decks, I think something good could come out of this.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
Your choice of creatures leave to be desired. Are gary and Wtiches enough to win the game by themselves? Ghitu Slinger and Petravark, wow.
The important thing to remember is that you'll never completely land-lock your opponent. Pauper is fast; plenty of 1-drops. And the creature quality is extremely high. having recurring damage like the witches is really great for that on top of massive amounts of removal.
I would replace the Firebolts with Flame Jab here. I've really becomes a fan of that card. I'm also positive there are some better creatures to choose from in red. There has to be.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
EDIT: Chimney Imp, nice.
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio