I think people here are putting too much into mana fixing, you do have to do some however I don't think like map + bauble is a good idea at all it's such a waste of card slots
Various Tron builds HAVE shown up in dailies. Not very frequently, mind you, but Tron had seen some success in Pauper. True, compared to 8-Post builds, they were inferior. 8-Post is just an amazingly better engine. Without Cloudpost though, there is a chance Tron could rise to fill that void. Is it a certainty? Of course not. Cloudpost relied on 8 lands vs 12 and any combination of Post lands could be game winning. Tron relies on one combination for its advantage and requires more effort just to be assembled. That all being said, that's the purpose of this thread. To discuss, test, and determine whether it not some form of Tron can be successful. In my opinion, I think it can be. But the builds are what's going to determine the viability, not just the lands
Tron has seen some play here and there. Not trying to be repetitive here but post was simply the better land option as has already been said and for the reasons said.
As the OP my opinion of the deck is dwindling as I look at the meta. Decks like Kiln Fiend, Delver, Mono G Stompy, hexproof and others are decks that can stomp on Tron. Tron has difficulties assembling the mana base needed which can take multiple turns which are valuable time for these decks. The meta is CURRENTLY filled with decks that are bad matchups. Post bannings though it is still semi-uncertain what the meta will look like and after the bans are officially through the meta will look significantly different.
Tron has great matchups against slow decks because the longer the game lasts the more mana turns in our favor and we have simply better end game options than other decks.
A theory I've been looking at with pauper involves using more card with phyrexian mana than mana ramp. That way we can focus more on assembling Tron pieces and not have to worry about being mana screwed while still dropping valuable cards to protect our late game.
I've been toying around with the Walls as anti aggro....Overgrown Battlement, Wall of Roots, and Wall of Tanglecord as anti aggro, anti-Delver. They're cheap and so far, fairly effective. I've never seen Wall of Tanglecord in a list but it caught my eye as a way to combat Delver. It has Defender so it boosts Battlements mana activation and it's colorless so you can cast it T2 pretty much with certainty.
There might be specific phyrexian cards worth playing (although I personally don't like any of them for pauper tron), but if the game plan is to pay 6+ life per game to cast your spells, aggro MUs go from bad to unwinnable.
I'm officially off swirling sandstorm. It was a solid suggestion (i-never-smile i think?), but I've died with it in my hand a fair number of times just short of threshold. Add in the occasional color screw and it was just too inconsistent.
I'm trying some combination of electrickery and moment's peace for anti-aggro now.
I can't blame you for dropping Sandstorm. It's a really good card, but you basically have to be on some kind of Forbidden Alchemy-style plan in order for it to work. And Electrickery is just so good anyways. Frankly, even if I was playing a URb(g) Alchemy build with Sandstorms in the 75, I would probably still play some Electrickery as well. It's a pretty savage beating on a lot of decks.
I used to think so too...i tried to run 4x map and no other fixing. However when I started really looking at it, I saw the times where I was leaving 3 or 4 colorless mana unspent every turn. I started prioritizing playing colored lands over tron lands but this was bad too - it slowed me down by at least a full turn in getting to tron mana. I think 4 map plus 4 other mana fixing is correct.
Regarding dimir signet, I still am not feeling it. It seems Wayfarers bauble does more of what you want. A turn 2 signet still taps us out while at least with baubles the mana can be left open.
In my games I've been running four map, four prism and been fine, obv going in green you can gain better benefit from four map four stirrings, which works so much better because if you're flooded it isn't just a dead card
Has anyone thought of the new 4/5 hexproof guy in blue tron? Swirling Sandstorm or a really pumped crypt rat are the only sweepers that can kill him although of course edicts are a thing.
I'll have to post the list I'm running a bit later but I played against a nearly identical mirror match. The only differences I found were that he ran more dig spells and instead of ulamog's crusher for a wincon he ran steamcore weird. His deck was pretty interesting and better tuned for a mirror match but he couldn't handle the crusher. After sideboard he boarded in significantly more land hate than me, I pulled in 3 stone rains, he pulled in what seemed like a playset of stone rains and atleast one or two earth rift and managed to take out all of my mines ruining my chances at a tron ever again. Lucky before he could take care of my tron indefinitely I dropped the crusher and he had nothing to do to take care of it.
Ultimately saying though mirror matches are rough! It comes down to who can typically manage a tron fastest without it being interrupted before the game starts rolling. Needless to say it was definitely the most fun I've ever had in any matchup.
As promised here's my decklist. It's not the exact same as what it was when I played the matchup but very little changed.
I just was coming to comment about our first showing of Tron, which I was very excited about so I'm guessing you'd be mr_ide lol bit of a lucky r4g2 opponent kept 0 lands and conceded after a few turns lol
there was also another showing of the deck in one of the early morning DEs today, basically the same build... so far the only version of tron that has managed to win
BUT! I do want to point out that there was a player yesterday who ran my LoLsome RebelTron deck and went to 2-2, some close games though it would have been so great if he managed the 3-1
EDIT: correction the guy who just won with the deck won in both of this morning's DEs a 3-1 and a 4-0
Edit: one last idea which i didn't try was to add 1x Thundering Tanadon. The only reason would be so that you could search and play it in the same turn with fierce empath (2G + 4). 4 life hurts against aggro but it could be a nice plan against slower decks.
that just feels so clunky and seems you're moving too much towards aggro, which the deck really didn't want to be in original form
I kind of like the list actually as odd as it seems. It appears to be a decent compromise between GreenPost + Trinket Tron + Mulldrifter.
There was also another Tron showing by Avignon yesterday in the mid-day (EST) Daily Event. I want to call it Greedy Tron because it was just that. It appears to run RUG for things like Mulldrifter, Sea Gate Oracle, Ancient Stirrings, and Rolling Thunder. I think there's a like 50% chance this will be the published DE, which would be nice so we could see what kind of junk he had going on in there lol
Off topic, but at least so far based on that daily, you'd have to call that meta healthy - six different decks 4-0ing, including three different monocolored decks. No mono-red decks, but two of the multicolor decks are heavy red; only green got shut out. (And the affinity deck is quite different from the pre-ban stock version.)
Also, wow the manabase on the deck you're referencing is just super greedy. 3 colors (plus one more in the board) and 14 colorless lands.
While the Kaervek's Torch bug is awful, it can also let you apply for a refunds every time they counter it. Automatic 6 tix certainly takes the edge off when they counter it.
maybe its just my conscience, but I can't rightfully join an event with a card I know is bugged and then when the bug happens complain and demand a refund because of it, especially if you manage to place any ways
that aside the replacement is Rolling Thunder... I gave the deck a run, it's super greedy on that mana base at 20, and I had to often drop my hand below six and I often wanted more draw, but that might just be personal preference
Has anyone tried a more control based build that runs a playset of kaervek's torches? Despite the glitch I've come to rely on that card a lot with all the creature removal I've encountered from MBC decks running around. Obviously still run a few creatures but build the deck more around getting to a big kaervek's torch instead of a creature beat down?
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As the OP my opinion of the deck is dwindling as I look at the meta. Decks like Kiln Fiend, Delver, Mono G Stompy, hexproof and others are decks that can stomp on Tron. Tron has difficulties assembling the mana base needed which can take multiple turns which are valuable time for these decks. The meta is CURRENTLY filled with decks that are bad matchups. Post bannings though it is still semi-uncertain what the meta will look like and after the bans are officially through the meta will look significantly different.
Tron has great matchups against slow decks because the longer the game lasts the more mana turns in our favor and we have simply better end game options than other decks.
A theory I've been looking at with pauper involves using more card with phyrexian mana than mana ramp. That way we can focus more on assembling Tron pieces and not have to worry about being mana screwed while still dropping valuable cards to protect our late game.
I can't blame you for dropping Sandstorm. It's a really good card, but you basically have to be on some kind of Forbidden Alchemy-style plan in order for it to work. And Electrickery is just so good anyways. Frankly, even if I was playing a URb(g) Alchemy build with Sandstorms in the 75, I would probably still play some Electrickery as well. It's a pretty savage beating on a lot of decks.
In my games I've been running four map, four prism and been fine, obv going in green you can gain better benefit from four map four stirrings, which works so much better because if you're flooded it isn't just a dead card
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Ultimately saying though mirror matches are rough! It comes down to who can typically manage a tron fastest without it being interrupted before the game starts rolling. Needless to say it was definitely the most fun I've ever had in any matchup.
As promised here's my decklist. It's not the exact same as what it was when I played the matchup but very little changed.
7x Island
4x Mountain
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
1x Kaervek's Torch
2x Rolling Thunder
2x Ulamog's Crusher
1x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
4x Prophetic Prism
3x Sea Gate Oracle
4x Compulsive Research
3x Mulldrifter
2x Ghostly Flicker
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Condescend
3 negate
2 Condescend
2 Repeal
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Stone Rain
2 Swirling Sandstorm
I've been playing around with monoU, it works like most trons if you get a bad draw on your lands you have no chance
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I've been looking at places to put more counters in and I was thinking that's where it works the best. So those will very likely change.
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BUT! I do want to point out that there was a player yesterday who ran my LoLsome RebelTron deck and went to 2-2, some close games though it would have been so great if he managed the 3-1
EDIT: correction the guy who just won with the deck won in both of this morning's DEs a 3-1 and a 4-0
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BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
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that just feels so clunky and seems you're moving too much towards aggro, which the deck really didn't want to be in original form
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was basically like greenpost turned tron with a very small blue splash for mulldrifter
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here you go the deck, played by reboorn, actually was in the DE that got listed:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6044696
4 Fangren Marauder
4 Fierce Empath
4 Mulldrifter
2 Ulamog's Crusher
4 Wall of Roots
Non-Creature:
2 Ancient Stirrings
3 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Crop Rotation
4 Expedition Map
4 Prophetic Prism
2 Forest
2 Quicksand
1 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Fog
1 Jungle Weaver
1 Penumbra Spider
1 Quicksand
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Wall of Tanglecord
I kind of like the list actually as odd as it seems. It appears to be a decent compromise between GreenPost + Trinket Tron + Mulldrifter.
There was also another Tron showing by Avignon yesterday in the mid-day (EST) Daily Event. I want to call it Greedy Tron because it was just that. It appears to run RUG for things like Mulldrifter, Sea Gate Oracle, Ancient Stirrings, and Rolling Thunder. I think there's a like 50% chance this will be the published DE, which would be nice so we could see what kind of junk he had going on in there lol
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Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
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http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6074302
Deck List:
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Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
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BPoxB
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Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
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Off topic, but at least so far based on that daily, you'd have to call that meta healthy - six different decks 4-0ing, including three different monocolored decks. No mono-red decks, but two of the multicolor decks are heavy red; only green got shut out. (And the affinity deck is quite different from the pre-ban stock version.)
Also, wow the manabase on the deck you're referencing is just super greedy. 3 colors (plus one more in the board) and 14 colorless lands.
Pauper Daily #6074302 on 10/10/2013"Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
1 Island
1 Khalni Garden
2 Mountain
1 Quicksand
1 Remote Isle
1 Shimmering Grotto
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Fangren Marauder
4 Mulldrifter
4 Sea Gate Oracle
2 Ulamog's Crusher
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
1 Compulsive Research
4 Expedition Map
4 Firebolt
1 Flame Slash
4 Prophetic Prism
2 Rolling Thunder
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Circle of Protection: Green
3 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Fangren Marauder
1 Flame Slash
2 Pyroblast
1 Ray of Revelation
2 Serene Heart
3 Serrated Arrows
we got another one yesterday, again reboorn who was running an Izzet version (much heavier blue than red)
I thought it would go up, but seems they picked the other one for 10/11
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maybe its just my conscience, but I can't rightfully join an event with a card I know is bugged and then when the bug happens complain and demand a refund because of it, especially if you manage to place any ways
that aside the replacement is Rolling Thunder... I gave the deck a run, it's super greedy on that mana base at 20, and I had to often drop my hand below six and I often wanted more draw, but that might just be personal preference
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
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Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
Check me out on Twitter & Get a little MTGO Therapy