Infect: Why Pauper isn't fun.

  • #52
    Quote from Napoleon
    I already have. Problem not solved. Any other suggestions?


    Riot Spikes, and then Post your deck list, so we can see what isn't working.
    Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
  • #53
    Quote from Napoleon
    I already have. Problem not solved. Any other suggestions?

    Curfew, the only card that can beat the infect 'god hand'

    Or just don't play UR Post, control loses to aggro.
  • #54
    Quote from LSB
    Curfew, the only card that can beat the infect 'god hand'

    Or just don't play UR Post, control loses to aggro.



    Actually its not an aggro deck it's a combo deck.

    UR post crushes aggro decks.
    Originally Posted by Massive Marc
    You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
  • #55
    I don't like cheese decks like that, and honestly I feel storm is the same way, but the format is diversified and just because someone decided to get the nutts a few games doesn't mean invigorate needs to bite it. The only real argument against invigorate is because the format ALSO has Mutagenic growth. How many free common pump spells do you need?
    Your Sig is Now Free to Move about the Forum.

    My thoughts on: Going Infinite | Block Constructed | MTGCatalyst Blog Home
  • #56
    Quote from the_cardfather
    I don't like cheese decks like that, and honestly I feel storm is the same way, but the format is diversified and just because someone decided to get the nutts a few games doesn't mean invigorate needs to bite it. The only real argument against invigorate is because the format ALSO has Mutagenic growth. How many free common pump spells do you need?



    This. Storm has answers. Storm decks also have answers to the answers. Infect has answers, and infect has answers to the answers.

    However Infect's answers to their answers don't require mana.


    forest elf go, mountain burn invigorate in response, then next turn swing for lethal is not a god hand. It happens very consistently.
    Originally Posted by Massive Marc
    You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
  • #57
    Quote from Bigbrass
    Losing twice in a row to a first turn Glistener Elf followed by enough pump to kill on second turn through removal is not fun.

    "He just had the nuts draw" and "Won't happen every game" isn't good enough, those two games were so infuriating I'm finished with pauper.


    I was about to say "If you don't like it, leave", but you seem to have reached that conclusion already.

    So what is the point of this thread?
  • #58
    Quote from Napoleon

    forest elf go, mountain burn invigorate in response, then next turn swing for lethal is not a god hand. It happens very consistently.


    No, it doesn't. Been playing this deck for a long while now and I can say with certainty, it doesn't happen consistently. It's just easier to remember the times you lose like that.
  • #59
    Quote from Napoleon
    Actually its not an aggro deck it's a combo deck.

    UR post crushes aggro decks.


    I don't buy your definition, Infect is a 'fair deck' in that they win by turning their creatures sideways, it's just that all of their creatures happen to have double strike. Cystbearer certainly does not belong in any deck seeking to win by turn 3. They just sacrifice late game reach (Lighting Bolt) for more protection and a faster clock.
  • #60
    I don't think that infect is broken but I understand the frustration of losing to a turn 2 kill, even through removal. This is always frustrating but there are things that can be done. If you're finding infect too much of a problem have you considered playing decks that are tailored to beat it more? Cards such as Curfew or Innocent blood or Fog are examples of cards that get around pump spells and vines of vastwood.

    Infect is part of the established pauper metagame. Every format has decks that people hate playing but answers do exist to curtail its power. If you can slow down that initial rush the infect deck can quickly run out of steam and allow you to take control. I would try to build decks that hate on infect rather than quit a format you clearly enjoy (or at least care enough about to discuss on message boards). Also, if the dailies get so clogged with infect then an anti-infect deck could really break a few deserving teeth.
  • #61
    I got bored so I decided to draw up a deck list that is resilient to a turn 1 Glistener elf, here it is:

    4 x Fume Spitter
    4 x Dead Weight
    4 x Virulent wound
    4 x Innocent blood
    4 x Scar
    4 x Vendetta
    4 x Curfew
    4 x Gitaxian Probe
    4 x Force Spike
    4 x Delver of secrets

    I haven't worked out the lands or the sideboard yet but I can pretty much guarantee that this won't lose to a turn 1 Glistener Elf. It has 24 removal spells to kill it (28 if you include the curfew to bounce it when it attacks) - even through invigorates, and if you're on the play you can even force spike it, putting the number of main deck answers up to at least 28 (32 inc. curfew). Probe is there because its free and cycles and delver is you're win-con. Not sure how resilient it will be against any other deck in the format but you will never lose to a turn 1 Glistener Elf again. Feel free to use this deck online and let us know how well you do.
  • #62
    Quote from Bigbrass
    "He just had the nuts draw" and "Won't happen every game" isn't good enough, those two games were so infuriating I'm finished with pauper.


    I'm sorry if that's not enough for you, but that's the plain and simple truth. I've never seen hands as crazy as the ones you described, and I can confidently say that Infect Stompy almost never wins that quickly or efficiently.

    If it's that much of a problem, then modify your deck and/or sideboard accordingly. Run more creatures that are still conducive to your game plan, and pray they don't draw any of their Hornet Stings or Apostle's Blessings if they choose to side them in.
    If it still doesn't work out, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you should try a different deck for a while.
    Quote from love_blanket
    The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means improve you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
  • #63
    Really you haven't? I play pauper infect because it's an amazing deck for doublequeing. Yeah sometimes you get the turn 2 kill hands and many other times you don't. I'd say the turn 2 kill rate is maybe 20%. But you can definittly power through even some of the best removal spells. But you definitely need to know when to just hold on playing the 1st donk.
  • #64
    @OP:

    Doom Blade is common.
    Go for the Throat is common.
    Terror is common.
    Gut Shot is common. (A well-timed one can really screw your opponent over.)
    Pacifism is, surprise surprise, common.
    Guard Duty is common.

    Why do I bring this up? Because infect isn't that bad in Pauper. I mean, most Pauper decks end up being aggro anyway. And your opponent has to get one in his first seven cards to hurt you.
    Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw.

    On phasing:

    Quote from bobthefunny
    Yup. It doesn't change zones. It simply holds a sign up saying "I'm not here!" if anything comes looking for it.


    What's wrong with this picture?

    Quote from Donald »
    Quote from toadpatrol »
    Right now, my win condition with the two of them is Vish Kal, the blood arbiter, but I'm looking for a more reliable win condition that doesn't require attacking. With that said, does anyone know of any cards that are manaless sac outlets with may cause my opponent to die?

    Goblin Bombardment comes to mind. Also welcome to the forums. Smile
  • #65
    Gut shot is not common.
  • #66
    Didn't realize it before, but yeah, Guard Duty is a great answer to a turn one guy. There's no free answer to it in infect.
  • #67
    guard duty is a horrible answer to infect, apostles blessing destroys that card
  • #68
    Guard Duty is horrible in general, because Kirtar's Desire is a card in the game of Magic.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #69
    off the top of my head here are some really ridiculously easy answers to infect.


    forge devil (forces them to spend a spell to save it, then leaves you a blocker.
    spell pierce (read U: counter target pump spell)


    The complaining in this thread is so utterly ridiculous. everyone remembers their infuriating turn 2 losses but doesn't remember any games that play out normally? how about a quick calculation of the chance of having a glistener elf in a persons opening hand, which is the card you absolutely have to have to have a turn 2 kill: 49.183%. now take the chances that you have enough pump to kill on turn two. I'm not going to bother since finding the exact amount since it varies between lists but lets say its around 50%. thats extremely high (its probably closer to 30%) since in most cases you need combinations of 3 and atleast one needs to be free but for arguments sack lets pick a high number. so now you're down to about 25%. now factor in lands. Then haveing the right about of lands to cast your spells but also still having enough pump. the add into that the fact that if your opponent runs out a one drop then you need to have another of a specific pump spell to get through that. then factor in the possibly that your opponent actually has relevant removal (*gasp*)... the percentage of turn 2 kills is so tiny. Likely around the same as storm.

    If you feel still feel so frustrated about infect after realizing they don't have as many turn 2 kills as you think, there are a few options:
    1) change your deck. most people realize that when you're constantly losing to a deck, you should probably add answers to it. thats what happens when something dominates a meta or you just constantly lose to it and feel like its dominating.
    2)play a different format. there are plenty of other formats and in pretty much all of them, infect barely exists as a deck.

    --
    Also unrelated to the infect problem, but in that 3rd post, why exactly was terramorphic expanse in a burn deck?
    Last edited by Numotflame96: 5/5/2012 9:32:13 AM
    Trade Thread here

    Currently Taking altered art Comissions. www.nf96alters.webs.com
    Quick and Cheap Alters (looking to fill up some slots so some special pricing currently)

    Ebay Stuff
  • #70
    Go for the Throat is common.
    Gut Shot is common.


    I want you to think long and hard about what you just said...
    Quote from love_blanket
    The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means improve you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
  • #71
    Quote from Tom the Scud
    Gut shot is not common.


    I know this from experience- I've made the same mistake during a pauper event.

    Ended up losing 2-1 with Kiln Fiend and coming second to that deck; it's very strong but certainly not unbeatable.
    Probably lapsed Rules Advisor. Still a rules adviser though.

    Proud owner of 100 thanks. Thanks for the thanks.

    Autocarding:
    [c]Splinterfright[/c]->Splinterfright
    [c=Dark Confidant]Bob[/c]->Bob
  • #72
    I think storm combo is a more degenerate deck than Infect. You can actually throw out a blocker and slow down infect, even for a turn and cause them to waste a pump spell.

    With storm, you need a way to stop 10+ tokens, and oftentimes at instant speed due to bushwhacker killing you that turn. It's the most uninteractive deck in the format.

    Get rid of Empty the Warrens, and it will be easier to hate out the other decks without auto-losing to storm.
  • #73
    It's a combo deck, and there are plenty of answers for it. Just because your deck has a bad matchup or you come unprepared to deal with it doesn't mean that the deck is too degenerate, or even a tier 1 deck in the format.
    A Think Twice in hand is worth two in the grave.

    You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
  • #74
    Quote from gereffi
    It's a combo deck, and there are plenty of answers for it. Just because your deck has a bad matchup or you come unprepared to deal with it doesn't mean that the deck is too degenerate, or even a tier 1 deck in the format.


    I suppose. But due to how radically different the threat is in the storm deck, it could be seen as format warping. Think of how narrow the answers are that you need to defeat the storm combo. Mass removal spells like Echoing Decay are just not very good against other decks.

    I suppose it isn't nearly as bad as storm combo is legacy or even modern though, and it isn't as bad as when familiar storm was floating around.
  • #75
    Quote from Hinotama
    I suppose. But due to how radically different the threat is in the storm deck, it could be seen as format warping. Think of how narrow the answers are that you need to defeat the storm combo. Mass removal spells like Echoing Decay are just not very good against other decks.

    I suppose it isn't nearly as bad as storm combo is legacy or even modern though, and it isn't as bad as when familiar storm was floating around.


    Echoing Decay takes out everything in WW, Rats and everything bar spire golem in delver and has 2 for 1 potential. It's hardly a leyline of the void level of narrow hate card.
  • #76
    The most fun card to play against empty the warrens is suture priest XD
    Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
    John Adams

    Magic Intelligence - Now in the last stage of beta. With archetyps and pretty more data! A strong source for facts.. or as you can say statistics and decklists of MtG!
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes