[Deck] U/R Delver?

  • #1
    The pitch: two 3/2s for 1 mana, other great 1 drops, bounce, burn and counterspells. Sounds like a deck, and something of a solution to the Mono U Delver problem we're suffering from.

    Zelderex's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    //Creatures: 16
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Reckless Waif
    4 Phantasmal Bear
    4 Stitched Drake

    //Spells: 19
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Rune Snag
    3 Mana Leak
    4 Vapor Snag
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Flame Slash
    3 Firebolt

    //Lands: 18
    10 Island
    8 Mountain



    Thoughts? I'm iffy on the mana base,


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  • #2
    Reckless Waif is an uncommon, unfortunately.
    I'm playing UR Delver Burn in standard pauper (or I will be if I ever get to a PDC event), but I think in classic it just suffers from the 2-coloured aggro problem; that is, the second color slows it down enough that it can't compete with the mono-coloured aggro or be fast enough to beat control. Of course you can add fixing, but that dilutes your threat base, etc., etc.

    I certainly think if I were playing UR Delver (sans Waif, of course) I would be playing Lightning Bolt or Brimstone Volley (some hard-doming burn) rather than Flame Slash. I think the mana base will kill you.

    As for the U Delver problem, I think people/decks are catching up at this point.
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    Modern
    GWB Project Melira BWG
    RU Splinter Twin UR
    UGR Scapeshift RGU
    UR Storm RU
  • #3
    And now I feel stupid for suggesting this. Wizards keeps printing red counterparts to blue Innistrad commons at uncommon, and I keep assuming they're common...

    Um, Plated Geopede?
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #4
    That just makes no sense WotC. Now they're just telling us that U is the best color. A 3/2 flying is blue, with a worse drawback than the 3/2 with a drawback in Red? Really?

    Eh. I uh...yeah. Without Waif, I think the mana base problem becomes significant enough that the deck stops being ideal.


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  • #5
    I would run more sorceries/instants in a Delver deck and cut a few creatures.

    UR decks like this seem pretty serious though. Delver is a crazy card.
  • #6
    Quote from Zelderex
    That just makes no sense WotC. Now they're just telling us that U is the best color. A 3/2 flying is blue, with a worse drawback than the 3/2 with a drawback in Red? Really?

    Eh. I uh...yeah. Without Waif, I think the mana base problem becomes significant enough that the deck stops being ideal.


    It makes sense in that Waif is a lot better than delver in Limited, so they probably don't want it to show up in such high numbers.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #7
    Gonna try another shot at this.

    Zelderex's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    //Creatures: 12
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Phantasmal Bear
    4 Stitched Drake

    //Spells: 23
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Rune Snag
    3 Mana Leak
    4 Vapor Snag
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Flame Slash
    3 Firebolt
    4 Lightning Bolt

    //Lands: 18
    10 Island
    8 Mountain



    Literally the only change is -4 Waif, +4 L-Bolt. I'm considering putting Geistflame in there to further improve some matchups, but not sure what to cut.

    I already have it assembled in Paper, but that's purely on accident (playing Illusions this season of STD, played RDW last season, had Ephemeron lying around, used Echoing Truth in Modern one, own the blasts for legacy), and I can only play in MODO. What would you guys price the deck at?


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    Poetry is the tampon for my mental menstruation.
  • #8
    If you already have the expensive staples (Brainstorm, Hydroblast, Pyroblast) this is a few tickets. If you don't, it's somewhere between ten and twenty tickets.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #9
    Quote from BonSequitur
    If you already have the expensive staples (Brainstorm, Hydroblast, Pyroblast) this is a few tickets. If you don't, it's somewhere between ten and twenty tickets.


    ...I was going to save money and use the Elemental Blasts instead...but those are uncommon. The exact same effect. From an EARLIER SET. Is an uncommon, and they decided to keep that for Masters Edition IV. God damnit Wizards.

    Anyway, considering that 90% of the deck is staple-tier, it's a good investment anyway (since I could probably convert to 8post for what, another couple bucks? maybe 10?)


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  • #10
    Quote from Zelderex
    ...I was going to save money and use the Elemental Blasts instead...but those are uncommon. The exact same effect. From an EARLIER SET. Is an uncommon, and they decided to keep that for Masters Edition IV. God damnit Wizards.

    Anyway, considering that 90% of the deck is staple-tier, it's a good investment anyway (since I could probably convert to 8post for what, another couple bucks? maybe 10?)


    The most expensive stuff you need to get an UR 8post deck that isn't in there is Prohibit (Just over 2 tickets). Cloudpost, since it was banned in Modern, is now holding at .40 tix.

    Brainstorm is a legacy staple too, and hydro/pyro blast are identical to elemental blasts except for wording and rarity (And also Legacy sideboard cards) so it's alll gooood.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #11
    Isn't Chain Lightning legal online because of masters?
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  • #12
    It was a common in Legends, too, but it's in no way better than Lightning Bolt. You play it as extra Bolts in burn decks, really.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #13
    L-Bolt>Chain Lightning. Chain Lightning is STILL like the 2nd best burn spell ever, but there will come a day when some Red deck will kick your ass by paying the mana. Actually, probably not, but still.


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  • #14
    Who the hell said instead of lightning bolt?!? Instead of Firebolt. Or Rune Snag.

    The vast majority of the legacy UR delver burn suite is legal in Pauper. Play that. Even incinerate seems better than Stitched Drake/Flame Slash in here.

    At the very least it's criminal to not be playing chain lightning and bolt.
    Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
  • #15
    There are a lot of x/3s in Legacy that justify playing all the extra bolts for the removal, but in Pauper, Firebolt is pretty much better than Chain Lightning, just for the CA.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #16
    Who said anything about removal? You dome them. But really, removal is at such a premium that you'd play Flame Slash over chain lightning?
    Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
  • #17
    Firebolt generates great CA against Delver, WW, Affinity, Goblins, and so many more. Being able to generate CA like that is very useful.

    Stitched Drake is relevant, since it's tough to answer short of a Victim of Night or Flame Slash. I'd be willing to replace it, but I want to keep that slot dedicated to having a creature. Maybe Ninja of the Deep Hours.

    Did you just say Incinerate is better than Flame Slash[/card? This is a tempo deck, so 2 mana is bad juju as is. But Flame Slash is one of THE best kill spells in the format, since it hits almost everything relevant, up to and including: Razor Golem, Spire Golem, Errant Ephemeron, Myr Enforcer, Stitched Drake, and it's even a reliable way to deal with an Atog.

    Rune Snag is in there because, while most Delver lists run 6-8 counterspells, I don't feel comfortable trying my hand at the UU for Counterspell, and I don't want to be playing 3/4 mana for anything else.

    One thing to remember about Pauper: it's VERY similar to Modern. Don't compare it to Legacy; compare it to Modern, or Old Extended even.

    EDIT: Got ninja'd. It's more relevant to hit clutch beaters like the ones I listed above than to burn their skull. It's better tempo to zap a blocker and swing safely, than to hold back and burn their skull because a bolt won't do the trick.


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  • #18
    Why not Prohibit? I think a mix of Mana Leak and Prohibit is better than Mana Leak and Rune Snag.
    On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
  • #19
    I was debating Prohibit. I dunno how often I'll ever be kicking Prohibit with 18 lands...but I guess it's better than watching someone laugh and play some 1 drops when I'm stuck on the draw.


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    Poetry is the tampon for my mental menstruation.
  • #20
    Any particular reason you're not using Kiln Fiend?
  • #21
    Now there's a consideration. Instead of the Drake?

    If I did that, THEN it might be worth it to consider the use of Chain Lightning.


    Join the Poetry Running Contest!

    Quote from BlippyTheSlug
    Poetry is the tampon for my mental menstruation.
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