This interesting deck popped up on the dailies a few times. It seems to have some interesting synergy between cards. What's the consensus of the matchups for this?
The first thing I think when I see that list is: "what's the blue for"?
Right, that's kinda my question too. I've been experimenting with different variations on the BG base. A more focused BG deck, or adding in powerful cards from one of the other colors at the expense of some consistency. This piqued my interest because of some of the synergy, but it doesn't seem like the matchups would be great.
I saw TomVandenbogaerde go 3-1 twice in the dailies.
I agree with MissMua about the blue. It looks like it's slowing down the deck for no reason. I think Corpsejack is fun but is not the key here.
I think black mostly gives you Lotleth Troll, Dreg Mangler and Abrupt Decay. I would much rather see a more Simic oriented version of this deck.
I would play 4 Master Biomancer and 4 Bioshift. You use Bioshift in response to spot removal and the idea is to move the counters on the Biomancer and suddenly, all your cheap creatures are big monsters. Corpsejack has a crazy interaction with the Biomancer, but I think biomancers are way more important.
I think this deck could either be RUG or BUG. Red gives you Burning-Tree, Ghor-Clan Rampager.. possibly Domri Rade. Black, as we can see in this deck, gives you Abrupt Decay and Lotleth Troll. Corpsejace Menace works too but I'm not sure if he's even needed. I'm also not a fan of Dreg Mangler in the deck.
Wasteland Viper seems interesting, I'm not sure. Fathom Mage too.
All in all, the deck still folds to Verdict... Golgari Charm might be a way out here.
i've got a deck that is like this, cept modern and dominates casual games that dont rely on heavy bounce/kill uses graft and corpsejack to draw absurd amounts of cards and generally just drops 12/12's starting turn 5.
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Interesting discussion, it'd probably benefit if we were talking about specific lists though. Is this sort of what you had in mind TomV? First, a straight golgari shell:
The major benefit of straigt GB is being able to cast, and return, jarad fairly easily. I'm not sure how much of a benefit that is, but it's somthing. To avoid being too heavy at the 4 drop slot, I've included crocanura as another evolve creature which comes in before corpsejack.
tbh, this deck kind of feels like a watered down jund aggro, you gain slightly more consistent mana but lose dreadbore and a lot of 2 drop options (BTE, gore-house). You're necessarily less aggro, but have a bit more mid-range game.
Adding a light white splash would do something like this to the deck:
The main difference is in the board, where you don't need to run as many devour flesh because you have more answers to big creatures thanks to selesnya charm. The smiter and healer are also here as pretty good options, but I've left the healer in the board.
either way, I still feel like jund is superior to either of these because dreadbore is really important against reckoner, who can just laugh at your big creatures (or use them to actually kill you).
Also, something that might be worth thnking about in a mid-rangey deck with maindeck golgari charm is pack rat. Dodging verdict would go a long way to making that playable, and you can make your token copy at EOT while leaving charm mana up.
Give/take makes the bug version much more appealing now. With corpsejack down you either draw 6 or get a 10/10. Just the blue side is fine in a lot of situations, and has a nice interaction with lotleth too.
it's a midrange deck that plays wasteland viper and dredg mangler
it tries to hedge against aggro and control, which makes it prone to drawing the wrong half of its deck
i don't see how this deck is better than playing junk, at least in junk you get to play a powerful card like obezdat and not rely on curving out or drawing the right half of your deck, and you don't have to main deck wasteland viper
I'm going to be going with golgari aggro for my first post-dgm deck too.
Renegade krasis doesn't make much sense to me in that deck. You can only evolve it one, twice if you are lucky. Plus he won't be helping out your other creatures much, since you only have 2 evolve creatures, lotleth troll who may have a counter, and a few scavenge creatures. Seems like his spot is better used by 4 varolz instead of just one. Only because his ability is very conditional, and is hard to trigger in a low cost deck like this. I think renegade krasis' home is a more midrange build that can trigger him regularly.
I'm also not super impressed with scrivener, but he could end up being worth it. Just watching the scg tournaments this weekend, he was on the field about 10 times or so and I only saw his ability triggered twice. And you have cards in your deck that you might not be able to dump fast enough like corpsejack and jarad and cards that you won't want to dump fast like your removal.
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Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Well evolving renegade krasis once with corpsejack and some other evolve creature on the board, allready seems worth it. That makes a 6/6 experiment one, or a 6/7 gyre sage on turn 4.
the game where your opponent lets you keep your experiment ones and gyre sages AND renegade krasis on the board AND lets you untap with them and play another creatre is a game you're winning 99% of the time. Krasis' pump ability is pure overkill. I'm sorry, but it's just a bad card. It does nothing on the turn it comes down and it does nothing without a whole lot of other things also going right for you.
Dreg mangler is much better. He evolves your ex1 to the crucial 3rd counter and attacks or blocks well the turn he comes down, which is an immediate impact. And then he gets value in the gy after removal/sweeper.
If you want a card to synergies well with your early evolve guys, try corpse jack menace. He'll double pump the turn he comes down and is immediately a 4/4. He's great to sandbag in hand and play him after a wipe to pump your regenerated ex1.
Sorry, I hadn't looked over that list and was going off your previous post where you seemed to be saying dreg mangler was another option.
If you want to keep the curve low, then I agree there's not much else you can do there. I think varolz could well be better in the slot, but you'd really want to include some deadbridge goliaths or more jarad's or something to get good use out of him.
4 Breeding Pool
5 Forest
3 Golgari Guildgate
1 Island
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Simic Guildgate
1 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
4 Experiment One
3 Slitherhead
4 Gyre Sage
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Elusive Krasis
4 Corpsejack Menace
2 Master Biomancer
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Rapid Hybridization
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
Right, that's kinda my question too. I've been experimenting with different variations on the BG base. A more focused BG deck, or adding in powerful cards from one of the other colors at the expense of some consistency. This piqued my interest because of some of the synergy, but it doesn't seem like the matchups would be great.
I saw TomVandenbogaerde go 3-1 twice in the dailies.
I think black mostly gives you Lotleth Troll, Dreg Mangler and Abrupt Decay. I would much rather see a more Simic oriented version of this deck.
I would play 4 Master Biomancer and 4 Bioshift. You use Bioshift in response to spot removal and the idea is to move the counters on the Biomancer and suddenly, all your cheap creatures are big monsters. Corpsejack has a crazy interaction with the Biomancer, but I think biomancers are way more important.
I think this deck could either be RUG or BUG. Red gives you Burning-Tree, Ghor-Clan Rampager.. possibly Domri Rade. Black, as we can see in this deck, gives you Abrupt Decay and Lotleth Troll. Corpsejace Menace works too but I'm not sure if he's even needed. I'm also not a fan of Dreg Mangler in the deck.
Wasteland Viper seems interesting, I'm not sure. Fathom Mage too.
All in all, the deck still folds to Verdict... Golgari Charm might be a way out here.
This is my conclusion with any of the BG variants too. It's Golgari Charm or bust.
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Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
4 experiment one
4 gyre sage
4 lotleth troll
4 dreg mangler
3 Crocanura
4 corpsejack menace
3 Jarad, Golgari lich lord
3 golgari charm
3 ultimate price
4 devour flesh
1 golgari charm
4 deathrite shaman
The major benefit of straigt GB is being able to cast, and return, jarad fairly easily. I'm not sure how much of a benefit that is, but it's somthing. To avoid being too heavy at the 4 drop slot, I've included crocanura as another evolve creature which comes in before corpsejack.
tbh, this deck kind of feels like a watered down jund aggro, you gain slightly more consistent mana but lose dreadbore and a lot of 2 drop options (BTE, gore-house). You're necessarily less aggro, but have a bit more mid-range game.
Adding a light white splash would do something like this to the deck:
4 experiment one
4 gyre sage
4 lotleth troll
4 dreg mangler
4 Loxodon smiter
4 corpsejack menace
4 abrupt decay
3 golgari charm
2 Selesnya charm
2 ultimate price
1 devour flesh
2 Selesnya charm
1 golgari charm
2 deathrite shaman
4 Centaur healer
The main difference is in the board, where you don't need to run as many devour flesh because you have more answers to big creatures thanks to selesnya charm. The smiter and healer are also here as pretty good options, but I've left the healer in the board.
either way, I still feel like jund is superior to either of these because dreadbore is really important against reckoner, who can just laugh at your big creatures (or use them to actually kill you).
Also, something that might be worth thnking about in a mid-rangey deck with maindeck golgari charm is pack rat. Dodging verdict would go a long way to making that playable, and you can make your token copy at EOT while leaving charm mana up.
it tries to hedge against aggro and control, which makes it prone to drawing the wrong half of its deck
i don't see how this deck is better than playing junk, at least in junk you get to play a powerful card like obezdat and not rely on curving out or drawing the right half of your deck, and you don't have to main deck wasteland viper
Renegade krasis doesn't make much sense to me in that deck. You can only evolve it one, twice if you are lucky. Plus he won't be helping out your other creatures much, since you only have 2 evolve creatures, lotleth troll who may have a counter, and a few scavenge creatures. Seems like his spot is better used by 4 varolz instead of just one. Only because his ability is very conditional, and is hard to trigger in a low cost deck like this. I think renegade krasis' home is a more midrange build that can trigger him regularly.
I'm also not super impressed with scrivener, but he could end up being worth it. Just watching the scg tournaments this weekend, he was on the field about 10 times or so and I only saw his ability triggered twice. And you have cards in your deck that you might not be able to dump fast enough like corpsejack and jarad and cards that you won't want to dump fast like your removal.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
the game where your opponent lets you keep your experiment ones and gyre sages AND renegade krasis on the board AND lets you untap with them and play another creatre is a game you're winning 99% of the time. Krasis' pump ability is pure overkill. I'm sorry, but it's just a bad card. It does nothing on the turn it comes down and it does nothing without a whole lot of other things also going right for you.
If you want a card to synergies well with your early evolve guys, try corpse jack menace. He'll double pump the turn he comes down and is immediately a 4/4. He's great to sandbag in hand and play him after a wipe to pump your regenerated ex1.
If you want to keep the curve low, then I agree there's not much else you can do there. I think varolz could well be better in the slot, but you'd really want to include some deadbridge goliaths or more jarad's or something to get good use out of him.