So now that DA is out... No love for Haunted Fengraf? It seems to me recurring your value guys is somewhat better than a regular cycling land.
There are a few reasons to not like Haunted Fengraf as I see it...
First off it produces colorless mana, which isn't helpful with all the double B costed cards in the deck... if you find yourself with too many in the early game and you might not be able to cast that Sign in Blood on turn 2, which is lame
The second is the fact that it isn't a Swamp so it doesn't boost Corrupt or Tendrils of Corruption. Now I understand this is a mute point if you're replacing the cycling lands because they don't count towards it and that not all MBC decks are still running those spells, but its a point worth noting any ways.
Third, and finally, while it is great to get back your "value guys" the fact that it returns a random creature means that you may get back a Ravenous Rats at an inopportune time. It's much more reassuring if it got back a specific card and even then I'm not sure 3 mana is cost effective enough.
It effectively costs four mana, but lands that cycle from play are good. Yes, it's problematic with the double black in the deck, but a mono-colored control deck can certainly support four colorless lands without issue.
I'm comparing this to cycling lands, of course, and I don't think the cost to the mana base is significantly onerous. The eight cycling land build of this would already be better if it could play four Blasted Landscape, for example. It might be interesting in a build without Ravenous Rats, playing only the 2-for-1 creatures that have reasonable bodies (Specter, Chittering Rats and Rager).
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Yes, cut the cards with a non-black clausule. So no Snuff Out or Spinning Darkness. I know those are great, but I don't like to have cards in my hand that are useless when playing against a certain colour. They belong to the sideboard, which in my case is dedicated to counter Cloudpost and Delver.
Remove those and put in some Echoing Decay's. They always come in handy. And mono-black doesn't play to many creatures with a thoughness greater than 2. Twisted Abomination is an exception.
Also, using one copy of a card seems wrong to me. If you use 4 copies, you have a high chance of playing the card. Use 1 copy and you get lucky to see it. So play at least 2 of each.
first i will try adding 2 crypt rats and removing 2 corrupts. (1 main 1 side) because snuff out and spinning are so great against all the metagame (removal for 0).
if i put a crypt rat in the main i will have:
4 funeral charms (1/1 removal)
4 geths
2 crypt rats (and you can unearth them)
I disagree with Yawggy. Snuff out and Spinning Darkness are good, but only use one of the two.
Your list is also extremely dense, and much too tight. If you're gonna run corrupt, have at least two, and try to use no more than 4 non-swamps lands. Hell, you can probably cut two or three lands.
Okiba, unfortunately, sucks in the meta (I know; the primer is horribly out of date, I may have time to work on that today), so you can cut that.
Ditch the Ravenous Rats; you're already running Auger anyway.
Overall, your list needs cleaning up. You have a lot of one and two ofs, which are problematic.
Consider using cards like: Victim of Night, Echoing Decay, and Dead Weight. Your current deck is gonna get shredded by almost anything, as it stands. You need enough spot to deal with Aggro, enough disruption to mess with storm, and enough aggro to pressure 8post. I'd seriously consider taking apart your current deck, and re-assembling it, from the ground up.
I disagree with Yawggy. Snuff out and Spinning Darkness are good, but only use one of the two.
Your list is also extremely dense, and much too tight. If you're gonna run corrupt, have at least two, and try to use no more than 4 non-swamps lands. Hell, you can probably cut two or three lands.
Okiba, unfortunately, sucks in the meta (I know; the primer is horribly out of date, I may have time to work on that today), so you can cut that.
Ditch the Ravenous Rats; you're already running Auger anyway.
Overall, your list needs cleaning up. You have a lot of one and two ofs, which are problematic.
Consider using cards like: Victim of Night, Echoing Decay, and Dead Weight. Your current deck is gonna get shredded by almost anything, as it stands. You need enough spot to deal with Aggro, enough disruption to mess with storm, and enough aggro to pressure 8post. I'd seriously consider taking apart your current deck, and re-assembling it, from the ground up.
the version im using is a copy of the last 4-0 monoblack deck, actually i have a lot of cards of this deck but i try to use this version because the 4-0 thing... (i have a playset of all the cards you name).
Really? It 4-0'd? Shows what the hell I know then. I think if you're having a lot of trouble with Mono Black decks just ditch the Rav Rats in favor of one of the 3 I listed.
Same list and a bit more refined. He is running Spinning Darkness and Snuff Out, but not full sets. They are good, but I feel (at least Snuff Out) is a more situational and I'm surprised he's running it with a single Tendrils of Corruption as his life gain.
Oh and boo the day that MBC stopped running Corrupt!
i used the decklist of DGame (justsin post) (currently i dont have 2 crypts rats more) so i add corrupt, but when i buy them i will test more this deck.
Shows you how bad Goblins has been hated out. Corrupt to the Face was normally how they beat me since Tendrils and Darkness both fizzle to Raiders.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I've been considering Ravens recently as well... I was playing around with a casual deck that had a focus on retrace in Flame Jab as well and it was great to actually be able to do something with those dead land draws in the mid-late game.... especially now that lists aren't running corrupt you don't need to really push your lands past 6ish
You should only ever play Raven's Crime as a one-of. It's better in the non-cycling lands version of the deck. It's a lot worse than cycling lands, but it at least lets your mana flood one-for-one the cards in the opponent's hand.
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It's still fairly accurate. MBC is a wash against the Storm decks, slightly weak against Goblins, rolls over Infect. But it folds to Post decks and MUC. It's not a great meta for it right now, I think.
Though match-up analysis by archetype is very limited. Different builds of the same archetype will fit different metagames.
It's still fairly accurate. MBC is a wash against the Storm decks, slightly weak against Goblins, rolls over Infect. But it folds to Post decks and MUC. It's not a great meta for it right now, I think.
Though match-up analysis by archetype is very limited. Different builds of the same archetype will fit different metagames.
It is a tough meta for MBC, but I wouldn't say storm is a wash esp when its warrens focused.. I usually run a list that has 3 echoing MD, which is gg storm
Like I said, match-up analysis is very limited, especially when the archetypes in pauper are so mutable. Echoing Decay is the ultimate hate card against goblin storm but it's a blank against certain decks.
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Echoing Decay is useful against most forms of Delver and Storm, proper disruption keeps storm at roughly 50/50. We're not poorly positioned. Our only really "bad," matchup is post. Everything else is winnable. We're not tier one, tier 1.5/2 though.
Yeah, but what are your good match-ups? Are you beating Delver, or one of the Weenie decks, or one of the combo decks, significantly more than Post is?
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I don't play this deck, so my only perspective is from the otherside, but comparing which is a better matchup against storm between this and post seems silly to me. As a storm player, mono black is far and away my toughest matchup. UB post is actually tough, but comparing how mono black and UR post do against storm seems crazy to me. For me atleast UR control is one of the matchups I have the highest winning percentages in while mono black is probably the lowest. I am very thankful that post and mono blue beat up on this deck and I do not have to see it very often.
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Standard: Zombies, AntiTusk Vampires, BUG Graveyard, Bant Hexproof, UR Storm Delver Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques) Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Yeah, but what are your good match-ups? Are you beating Delver, or one of the Weenie decks, or one of the combo decks, significantly more than Post is?
We keep roughly 50:50 with most of the weenie decks, excepting Delver. Our affinity is a little under/over depending on the build. Combo, as Grappling said, is usually good. Oh, and we can mess Fairies right the **** up (Echoing Decay in response to spellstutter sprite turns their tempo and CA to pudding), even if no one plays that anymore.
We keep roughly 50:50 with most of the weenie decks, excepting Delver. Our affinity is a little under/over depending on the build. Combo, as Grappling said, is usually good. Oh, and we can mess Fairies right the **** up (Echoing Decay in response to spellstutter sprite turns their tempo and CA to pudding), even if no one plays that anymore.
Ah, I see. I was genuinely curious, not being sarcastic.
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Somebody give me a quick run-down of all the things that my primer fails to mention. Any important matchups, cards, new developments, etc. I'll be revamping it soon, but I'd like to know what you guys would like to know about.
There are a few reasons to not like Haunted Fengraf as I see it...
First off it produces colorless mana, which isn't helpful with all the double B costed cards in the deck... if you find yourself with too many in the early game and you might not be able to cast that Sign in Blood on turn 2, which is lame
The second is the fact that it isn't a Swamp so it doesn't boost Corrupt or Tendrils of Corruption. Now I understand this is a mute point if you're replacing the cycling lands because they don't count towards it and that not all MBC decks are still running those spells, but its a point worth noting any ways.
Third, and finally, while it is great to get back your "value guys" the fact that it returns a random creature means that you may get back a Ravenous Rats at an inopportune time. It's much more reassuring if it got back a specific card and even then I'm not sure 3 mana is cost effective enough.
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
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I'm comparing this to cycling lands, of course, and I don't think the cost to the mana base is significantly onerous. The eight cycling land build of this would already be better if it could play four Blasted Landscape, for example. It might be interesting in a build without Ravenous Rats, playing only the 2-for-1 creatures that have reasonable bodies (Specter, Chittering Rats and Rager).
4 barren moor
1 bojuka bogg
3 polluted mire
14 swamp
3 unearth
4 funeral charm
3 sign in blood
4 geth's verdict
3 augur
4 ravenous
4 chittering
4 ragers
2 snuff out
1 tendryls
1 corrupt
1 okiba-gang
3 spinning darkness
side:
1 corrupt
1 trendryls
4 rancid earth
4 choking sands
4 duress
1 grim harvest
im thinking the solution is to put 2 crypt rats and cut the corrupts.
any advice??
first i will try adding 2 crypt rats and removing 2 corrupts. (1 main 1 side) because snuff out and spinning are so great against all the metagame (removal for 0).
if i put a crypt rat in the main i will have:
4 funeral charms (1/1 removal)
4 geths
2 crypt rats (and you can unearth them)
Your list is also extremely dense, and much too tight. If you're gonna run corrupt, have at least two, and try to use no more than 4 non-swamps lands. Hell, you can probably cut two or three lands.
Okiba, unfortunately, sucks in the meta (I know; the primer is horribly out of date, I may have time to work on that today), so you can cut that.
Ditch the Ravenous Rats; you're already running Auger anyway.
Overall, your list needs cleaning up. You have a lot of one and two ofs, which are problematic.
Consider using cards like: Victim of Night, Echoing Decay, and Dead Weight. Your current deck is gonna get shredded by almost anything, as it stands. You need enough spot to deal with Aggro, enough disruption to mess with storm, and enough aggro to pressure 8post. I'd seriously consider taking apart your current deck, and re-assembling it, from the ground up.
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the version im using is a copy of the last 4-0 monoblack deck, actually i have a lot of cards of this deck but i try to use this version because the 4-0 thing... (i have a playset of all the cards you name).
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Same list and a bit more refined. He is running Spinning Darkness and Snuff Out, but not full sets. They are good, but I feel (at least Snuff Out) is a more situational and I'm surprised he's running it with a single Tendrils of Corruption as his life gain.
Oh and boo the day that MBC stopped running Corrupt!
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
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thanks a lot for the info
:mob::mob::mob:
People are strange.
RWUBG
Shows you how bad Goblins has been hated out. Corrupt to the Face was normally how they beat me since Tendrils and Darkness both fizzle to Raiders.
So much truth. Things win games.
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Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
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familiar storm
storm (empty the warrens Grapeshot)
ww
MUC
ub post
Rg post
infect
stompy
affinity
etc
Favorable
50/50 matchs
Bad matchup
i only have this list but i think they are out of date:
http://pauperpalace.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/pauperresults1.jpg
Though match-up analysis by archetype is very limited. Different builds of the same archetype will fit different metagames.
It is a tough meta for MBC, but I wouldn't say storm is a wash esp when its warrens focused.. I usually run a list that has 3 echoing MD, which is gg storm
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
Found at MTGO Academy!! Same Great Series, Same Great Content, Great New Home!! (yes that is me shamelessly trolling for more readers :))
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Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater
Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques)
Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
We keep roughly 50:50 with most of the weenie decks, excepting Delver. Our affinity is a little under/over depending on the build. Combo, as Grappling said, is usually good. Oh, and we can mess Fairies right the **** up (Echoing Decay in response to spellstutter sprite turns their tempo and CA to pudding), even if no one plays that anymore.
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Ah, I see. I was genuinely curious, not being sarcastic.
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