The Deck:
Dragon Delve is a Midrange deck that fills the graveyard with spells like Commune With the Gods to cast big creatures with the delve ability like Gurmag Angler and support them with dragon auras like Dragon Breath.
It's a deck that can cast threat after threat on the midgame.
Notes:
This thread is now dedicated to the delve creatures version only. It was splitted before with the reanimator variants that centered on Exhume and Ulamog's Crusher.
History:
The idea of using Dragon auras in Pauper isn't that new. Dragon Reanimator decks already existed and the common delve creatures managed to get their own deck with this old support.
Dragon Shadow seems very narrow considering mono-black control and affinity are things, would probably cut and or move to the sideboard in order to make room for Grisly Salvage, which honestly has every reason to be in the list.
You could even possibly cut Traveler's Amulet for Mulch. Would cost you the same 2 mana, most likely net you the same land, but also fill your yard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If it looks like a bug, sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug then it's probably working as intended.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
If I'm not mistaken, the probability of getting 0 delvers by turn 3 when you cast Salvage or Commune in the second turn (on the play) is 0.102, so you get at least 1 fatty roughly 90% of times.
Another suggestion: what about Elves of Deep Shadow instead of Elvish Mystic? Or maybe Lotus Petal...
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
I don't play this deck and I've never played this deck, but I think it's cool
I don't know how the deck plays, but Undead Leotau and Fierce Empath might be cool? And Dredge guys might be cool for just getting stuff in the graveyard.
Y'know, in all the commotion of the last year or so coming and going, I completely forgot to think about Delve Guys with Dragon Bits.
I had a similar deck with Werebear, Krosan Tusker, and Pit Keeper. I should dig up the old list and see how it'd look with some Delve Guys stuffed in.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
Durkwood Baloth and Errant Ephemeron seems good, the other ones don't have 4 power, which is not very good. Durkwood seems to be the best, as I can easily suspend it on turn 1 or turn 2, but both will be very bad on topdeck, so as we already got bad cards on topdeck (the auras), it should probably be in the place of an aura, but I'm not sure how much and where.
I don't think the ramp threshold cards are necessary, as I'm not going the explosive way and, even them, Turn 3 with a Mandrills or an Angler are commons.
I think these lands are worth looking at, maybe not as 4 of's, but if you combine their effects with delve AND this deck's wonky 5 color-potential list, then you can really squeeze them for value. IMO their effects also propel early-game plays. Obviously not t1 hijinks, but so long as enough basics are included, I think they could assist in fixing while dumping themselves into the GY.
You have some good suggestions. Thanks for your feedback!
I may try Geothermal Crevice for its colors, the 3 main of the deck. The Depletion Lands are fast in the way they give 2 mana for 2 turns and 1 extra (via Delve) on getting to the graveyard but if I play them in the place of the fetches, I can get some issues in mana color correction.
Really enjoying this deck, grabbed it on MTGO and have been playing quite a bit of it. I agree with your observations and find that in most cases I board out the Blue Dragon Enchantments before anything else. Regarding the milling of your deck, do you pull these pieces out against decks like Delver or other faster paced decks to put in Feed the Clan and Lightning bolts for interaction? I find if I leave my mill pieces in and try to add these to interact I usually am milling them away.
Fun deck, would really like to see what we can possibly do with it!
Against fast decks my first trade is the (often)4 Mulch for 4 Feed the Clan.
Mulch is the first card I side out, even before the auras, sometimes 1, 2, 3 or 4 out.
Against Delver I don't side Lightning Bolt in, but maybe I need. I rely on the Dragon Wings to stabilize with a flying creature and Vines of Vastwood to protect it against bounce cards.
After looking at the list I've noticed that Mulch is, in its own way, the odd man out when it comes to your yard fillers. Mulch is unconditional, so if you hit a pocket of land you don't get much to throw into your yard. Not to mention, in a lot of cases you don't need to save land anyway, as its just as useful in the yard.
Kruphix's Insight on the other hand could dig six and bin all of it netting you 7 cards in the yard.
Better yet Scout the Borders can dig five and save a fatty which honestly seems to be the only thing the deck cares about. Seems to be in any situation where you cast a self-milling spell, you had the colored mana to cast it in the first place, so that means you have the single colored mana to cast a delve creature because with such huge mills you completely cover the cost of delve in the first place.
IMO 3 cmc is too slow without any acceleration, but then again, I build all of my pauper decks with facing MBA and Affinity in mind. I'm going to look into a BUG version of this deck. I really want to use Frantic Search and Careful Study..
I'm personally not with time right now to start testing these changes, but is nice to keep the topic going. Mates, if you are playing it and can share your lists/sideboards it would be cool to update the first post with the different styles.
Last update I did was closing the Dragon Breath set, it's a good card.
Only tested the deck a little so far, but a singleton of Moldervine Cloak can actually do wonders against the rare fatties that manage to be larger then your enchanted 4/4s and 5/5s. I suspect it might even be even more solid with BFZ hitting MTGO and tron gets access to more fat bodied Eldrazi.
Also acts as its own engine into the late game if you make it that far.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If it looks like a bug, sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug then it's probably working as intended.
Only a little more testing then when I last posted, but I did also throw a singleton Flame Jab and Raven's Crime into my list. Reason being, after you hit ~3 lands, you really don't need, or want to be playing lands after that since chances are you already have your threat on the board/have enough mana to cast a 2 mana dig and then hold a colored mana to cast a delve.
Having some limited access to a few retrace gives the deck something to do with topdecked mid/lategame lands.
That said, Raven's Crime seems to not be doing as good as I'd have hoped, and I'll probably throw that into my sideboard for control matchups. Flame Jab however is really neat to have handy, as it can make my lands take care of x/1 chump blockers my opponent might have that can cover my evasions, and being able to dump topdecked lands into the hard to fuel a mid/late game topdeck delve is sweet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If it looks like a bug, sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug then it's probably working as intended.
IMO 3 cmc is too slow without any acceleration, but then again, I build all of my pauper decks with facing MBA and Affinity in mind. I'm going to look into a BUG version of this deck. I really want to use Frantic Search and Careful Study..
It looks janky on paper, but the deck should function pretty well hinging on me being able to fix my mana. I had to cut blue in the end because Faithless Looting is just way better than Careful Study even if using blue allows for Frantic Search and Deep Analysis. I may come up with another build that highlights blue, but Dragon Wings is sort of poopy past being able to cycle it for value.
My current pauper 60 card meta is: 2 grixis affinity, 1 mono green elves, 1 burn, and 1 mono black control.
I don't play online either, if that makes a difference.
Looks interesting and I like the spin on BUG. I do have to ask though is there any reason for going down to 3 Breath/Fangs and not retaining 4? That card is just a house, either one of them. I'm playing a bit of the 'reanimation' version online as follows:
Brainstorm is a nifty way to get things out of your hand then follow up with 'mulching' or other things with them. That being said maybe Thoughtscour could find a place in this deck? I also like the dredge feel, and wonder if then putting Golgari Brownscales into my sideboard may be a nice touch for creatures but also to help fuel the deck. It is always a bummer to mulch a feed the clan after sideboard so that is why I sometimes cut those pieces.
Edit
You're also missing 1 card, was gonna plug this into MTGO and see how it works. I'll just toss another Dragon Breath in there cause I don't think there is any reason not to run 4.
And I did totally overlook this but Frantic Search Is banned in pauper.
And if Frantic Search is banned, then there is no real reason to go blue sans trading deep digs for CA, which I don't really think is as valuable since this format isn't hyper fast that you need answers at all times. Faithless Looting is too good to pass up and Forbidden Alchemy costs about 1 cmc too much to be viable when you can just Commune with the Gods/Grisly Salvage/Mulch into everything. Ho-hum :-\
BTW, if you're having issues/concerns with GY things getting stuck in your hand, Putrid Imp is the answer. T2 Gurmag Angler ftw.
__________________________________________
Dragon Delve
Sample List:
1 Gurmag Angler
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Sultai Scavenger
Spells
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Faithless Looting
4 Grapple with the Past
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Manamorphose
3 Dragon Breath
1 Dragon Fangs
3 Dragon Scales
4 Ash Barrens
1 Bloodfell Caves
4 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Rugged Highlands
6 Swamp
4 Tinder Farm
4 Grotesque Mutation
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Electrickery
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Snuff Out
1 Gorilla Shaman
The Deck:
Dragon Delve is a Midrange deck that fills the graveyard with spells like Commune With the Gods to cast big creatures with the delve ability like Gurmag Angler and support them with dragon auras like Dragon Breath.
It's a deck that can cast threat after threat on the midgame.
Notes:
This thread is now dedicated to the delve creatures version only. It was splitted before with the reanimator variants that centered on Exhume and Ulamog's Crusher.
History:
The idea of using Dragon auras in Pauper isn't that new. Dragon Reanimator decks already existed and the common delve creatures managed to get their own deck with this old support.
Card Selection:
~ In Construction
Matchups:
~ In Construction
Lists:
~ In Construction
Extra Content:
~ In Construction
You could even possibly cut Traveler's Amulet for Mulch. Would cost you the same 2 mana, most likely net you the same land, but also fill your yard.
Already managed to get 4 Grisly Salvage and 4 Mulch.
I removed 1 Elvish Mystic, the playset of Traveler's Amulet and moved the Dragon Wings to sideboard to add the playset of Grisly Salvage and Mulch. I keeped the Dragon Shadow because I need some evasion, don't know if it was the right choice instead of Dragon Wings, but the +1/+0 is a thing. Also, I adjusted the land count with +1 Swamp and -1 Island.
With the changes, it became this, but I have not tested yet:
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Gurmag Angler
Spells:
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Mulch
4 Tormenting Voice
3 Dragon Breath
3 Dragon Fangs
3 Dragon Scales
3 Dragon Shadow
5 Forest
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Feed the Clan
4 Undying Evil
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dragon Wings
I really need the Faithless Looting playset. Not sure of the sideboard without the Lightning Bolt now.
Mondern: Mardu Aristocrats (link to my post http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/624899-goblins-and-kings-mardu-aristocrats-build)
Legacy: dead guy ale (B/W/G)
Another suggestion: what about Elves of Deep Shadow instead of Elvish Mystic? Or maybe Lotus Petal...
I don't know how the deck plays, but Undead Leotau and Fierce Empath might be cool? And Dredge guys might be cool for just getting stuff in the graveyard.
I had a similar deck with Werebear, Krosan Tusker, and Pit Keeper. I should dig up the old list and see how it'd look with some Delve Guys stuffed in.
I stopped playing it for a bit, but now I may return. My actual list is:
4 Commune With Gods
4 Dragon Fangs
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Mulch
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Dragon Shadow
3 Dragon Breath
3 Dragon Scales
2 Dragon Wings
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Terramorphic Expanses
4 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Feed the Clan
4 Undying Evil
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Lightning Bolt
Dragon Breath should probably make a full playset, it's insane.
Have you considered suspend cards like Corpulent Corpse, Durkwood Baloth, Ivory Giant, and Errant Ephemeron? Ivory Giant and Errant Ephemeron make U and W more viable colors, IMO. Also, what are your thoughts on Krosan Restorer and/or Cabal Ritual? I think this deck can wiggle into a solid G/B build and just sport off-color Dragon Bits for tossing into the GY.
I didn't even knew about those suspend creatures.
Durkwood Baloth and Errant Ephemeron seems good, the other ones don't have 4 power, which is not very good. Durkwood seems to be the best, as I can easily suspend it on turn 1 or turn 2, but both will be very bad on topdeck, so as we already got bad cards on topdeck (the auras), it should probably be in the place of an aura, but I'm not sure how much and where.
I don't think the ramp threshold cards are necessary, as I'm not going the explosive way and, even them, Turn 3 with a Mandrills or an Angler are commons.
I think these lands are worth looking at, maybe not as 4 of's, but if you combine their effects with delve AND this deck's wonky 5 color-potential list, then you can really squeeze them for value. IMO their effects also propel early-game plays. Obviously not t1 hijinks, but so long as enough basics are included, I think they could assist in fixing while dumping themselves into the GY.
I may try Geothermal Crevice for its colors, the 3 main of the deck. The Depletion Lands are fast in the way they give 2 mana for 2 turns and 1 extra (via Delve) on getting to the graveyard but if I play them in the place of the fetches, I can get some issues in mana color correction.
Fun deck, would really like to see what we can possibly do with it!
Mulch is the first card I side out, even before the auras, sometimes 1, 2, 3 or 4 out.
Against Delver I don't side Lightning Bolt in, but maybe I need. I rely on the Dragon Wings to stabilize with a flying creature and Vines of Vastwood to protect it against bounce cards.
Scout the Borders.
After looking at the list I've noticed that Mulch is, in its own way, the odd man out when it comes to your yard fillers. Mulch is unconditional, so if you hit a pocket of land you don't get much to throw into your yard. Not to mention, in a lot of cases you don't need to save land anyway, as its just as useful in the yard.
Kruphix's Insight on the other hand could dig six and bin all of it netting you 7 cards in the yard.
Better yet Scout the Borders can dig five and save a fatty which honestly seems to be the only thing the deck cares about. Seems to be in any situation where you cast a self-milling spell, you had the colored mana to cast it in the first place, so that means you have the single colored mana to cast a delve creature because with such huge mills you completely cover the cost of delve in the first place.
I'd probably -4 Mulch, +3 Scout the Borders +1 Land.
I'll post it when I'm finished.
Last update I did was closing the Dragon Breath set, it's a good card.
Also acts as its own engine into the late game if you make it that far.
Having some limited access to a few retrace gives the deck something to do with topdecked mid/lategame lands.
That said, Raven's Crime seems to not be doing as good as I'd have hoped, and I'll probably throw that into my sideboard for control matchups. Flame Jab however is really neat to have handy, as it can make my lands take care of x/1 chump blockers my opponent might have that can cover my evasions, and being able to dump topdecked lands into the hard to fuel a mid/late game topdeck delve is sweet.
I can't say with certainty, but that's probably the best direction to go.
Hi all,
Ok. Here is my current Dragon Delver build:
4 Hooting Mandrills
3 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Putrid Imp
2 Stinkweed Imp
4 Faithless Looting
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Mulch
3 Commune with the Gods
4 Dragon Breath
3 Dragon Shadow
3 Dragon Fangs
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mortuary Mire
4 Swamp
5 Forest
3 Mountain
It looks janky on paper, but the deck should function pretty well hinging on me being able to fix my mana. I had to cut blue in the end because Faithless Looting is just way better than Careful Study even if using blue allows for Frantic Search and Deep Analysis. I may come up with another build that highlights blue, but Dragon Wings is sort of poopy past being able to cycle it for value.
My current pauper 60 card meta is: 2 grixis affinity, 1 mono green elves, 1 burn, and 1 mono black control.
I don't play online either, if that makes a difference.
4 Sultai Scavenger
3 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Stinkweed Imp
4 Careful Study
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Deep Analysis
1 Brainstorm
2 Mulch
3 Frantic Search
3 Dragon Shadow
3 Dragon Fangs
1 Dragon Wings
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Mortuary Mire
4 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Thornwood Falls
3 Island
Looks interesting and I like the spin on BUG. I do have to ask though is there any reason for going down to 3 Breath/Fangs and not retaining 4? That card is just a house, either one of them. I'm playing a bit of the 'reanimation' version online as follows:
4 Dragon Breath
4 Dragon Fangs
2 Dragon Scales
Fill Graveyard
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Faithless Looting
4 Commune with the Gods
2 Mulch
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Exhume
Creatures
4 Hooting Mandrills
4 Gurmag Angler
2 Ulamog's Crusher
Lands
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Undying Evil
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Feed the Clan
Brainstorm is a nifty way to get things out of your hand then follow up with 'mulching' or other things with them. That being said maybe Thoughtscour could find a place in this deck? I also like the dredge feel, and wonder if then putting Golgari Brownscales into my sideboard may be a nice touch for creatures but also to help fuel the deck. It is always a bummer to mulch a feed the clan after sideboard so that is why I sometimes cut those pieces.
Edit
You're also missing 1 card, was gonna plug this into MTGO and see how it works. I'll just toss another Dragon Breath in there cause I don't think there is any reason not to run 4.
And I did totally overlook this but Frantic Search Is banned in pauper.
I only play paper :x
And if Frantic Search is banned, then there is no real reason to go blue sans trading deep digs for CA, which I don't really think is as valuable since this format isn't hyper fast that you need answers at all times. Faithless Looting is too good to pass up and Forbidden Alchemy costs about 1 cmc too much to be viable when you can just Commune with the Gods/Grisly Salvage/Mulch into everything. Ho-hum :-\
BTW, if you're having issues/concerns with GY things getting stuck in your hand, Putrid Imp is the answer. T2 Gurmag Angler ftw.