So, a few minutes ago, some of the commons in the soon arriving MM17 were spoiled. They got me pretty excited, so I thought we might start a discussion what to do with the downshifted cards. So far we have:
Magma Jet
That sweet scry 2 can help dodge unnecessary lands in later turns for Burn/Sleigh lists and might also provide some card quality in control lists.
Burning Tree Emissary Not only is this an incredibly strong and aggressive two-drop, it might also enable some sick combo-oriented plays. Think Unearth, Undying Evil...
I don't know that I would try to get too cute with BTE, but, right now I'm going to say it's the frontrunner so far in terms of biggest impact potential to the format. I've been waiting a long time for a card like BTE to fill out the rogue monogreen list I've been using for a couple years. It might just be ready for prime time now.
BTE will make a big impact in Stompy, and will likely give those RDW (not Goblins) lists that run Mudbrawler Cohort and Valley Dasher a push as well. It's possible it might help enable a Gruul aggro deck too, though I'm a bit skeptical it would actually be better than either mono-colored deck. Still the tools are there with stuff like Jund Hackblade, Horned Kavu, and Scab-Clan Mauler.
Magma Jet slots nicely into Burn decks over the Incinerate/Searing Spear/Lightning Strike that were fighting for the last 3 or so slots. Could also help a control deck like Murasa Tron or UR control smooth out their draws in the early game while still removing a threat.
Mortician Beetle helps boost a tier 3 deck in BG sacrifice. I don't think it's enough to make that deck competitive since the manabase is pretty bad though.
Augur of Bolas was also just revealed which could work very well in some of the "spells matter" decks of the format. I could see UB Teachings liking this card over Sea Gate Oracle too since it comes down earlier. Unlike Sea Gate though it can't dig for land drops early or Mulldrifter when you want to pull ahead though.
Augur will be better than Oracle in so many fronts. It can dig deeper than Oracle, and comes a turn earlier which is critical against Stompy and the likes. Teachings barely ran creatures lately in order to blank removal, even relegating Anglers to the sideboard in favor of the Curse of the Bloody Tome kill, so Mulldrifters aren't a problem anyways. About the lands, you could always pick a Ponder and then go for the land I supposse, which is the same CMC as Oracle but digging way deeper.
The thing about Augur over Seagate is that Seagate can grab lands
I think UB and UR control is going to try him but I think seagate will be better in the long run.
I think Augur shines best as a 1 or 2 of in a Kiln fiend or U/x delver deck. As a chump blocker that can dig into key peices / gas
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Thunderous wrath downgrade is pretty legit. Ot may not make it into burn, but any reg blue deck should seriously consider it. Hitting agler ia quite a plus. Also excited for black onesided shrivel, and the bloodartist lite. Gift of orzova is also interesting. Its not armadillo cloak, but the change in colors makes it an interesting option. The downshifted unearth creatures are cool as well. Not sure they will make it into any decks but they provide some new design space. I suppose spike jester is relevant, but its sort of boring and doesn't line up well against spellstutter sprite, young wolf etc. Rewind could be good for izzet tron, ub control, but its not spectacular. Call of the conclave however seems pretty impactful. Its not big enough to tackle afinity creatures but it is way above curve with built on utility. Pitfall trap seems useful as a temp play vs angler decks, but not great. Greatful reprieve could be cool but not competetive I don't think.
Rewind has already been a common for ages, it's not a new card in the format. The biggest issue for both Spike Jester and Call of the Conclave is there's no obvious home for them. Maybe domain Zoo wants to play Call of the Conclave, though it might not even be better than Qasali Pridemage. R/B aggro has never really been a thing in Pauper and I don't see Spike Jester being enough of an incentive, especially given how bad the mana is for 2 color aggro. Maybe if Burning-Tree Emissary could cast Spike Jester it would be good, but that's not the reality we live in.
Rewind has already been a common for ages, it's not a new card in the format. The biggest issue for both Spike Jester and Call of the Conclave is there's no obvious home for them. Maybe domain Zoo wants to play Call of the Conclave, though it might not even be better than Qasali Pridemage. R/B aggro has never really been a thing in Pauper and I don't see Spike Jester being enough of an incentive, especially given how bad the mana is for 2 color aggro. Maybe if Burning-Tree Emissary could cast Spike Jester it would be good, but that's not the reality we live in.
good point on rewind, I do think conclave is worth considering over other options. Maybe not domain zoo, but being a socery has advantages, such as triggering prowess(not very relevant), enabling delirium (slightly more relevant), or reusability. As far as spike jester is concerned, I think red black aggro has been passable for a while, but the argument for just going red as always won out. Spike jester allows the deck to make up the tempo loss fro playing tap lands. There are actually quite a few interesting black goblin cards.
of course these are just thoughts for interesting deck ideas. The main ones are going to be Magma Jet, Mortician Beetle, Burning Tree Emissary, and Augur of Bolas.
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
I think the problem with ruska is that in most situations, its worse that goblinbombardment if you want a sac outlet, and worse than burn if you want direct damage.
Many of those other cards were already common. Slim molding is an interesting option for tron though. It gives you an early blocker and a wincon which is may be worth a slot if you are short on space in the deck and need both.
My thoughts:
Burn might be too good now. 4 Magma Jet helps set up a solid 1-3 of Thunderous Wrath. Beyond that I can't imagine a world where 4x Magma Jet isn't just the default. Hell, that was what Modern and Legacy used to run before the printing of other options! Burns biggest downfall was always inconsistency (hate cards not withstanding). Magma Jet goes a long way to fixing that.
On the other hand, Thunderous Wrath makes a serious Counter-Burn deck look much more likely. We have access to Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm (which more and more makes Pauper look like budget Legacy). Before you needed to do whatever you could to make Galvanic Blast work which made the decklist really tight. Now you can rock Thunderous Wrath, maybe even as a 4-of, and Magma Jet with Lightning Bolt as your burn package. Then you could run Thermo-Alchemist + Tandem Lookout to turn all of your spells into cantrips. Tap Alchemist, draw 1, Cast Magma Jet, untap, Scry 2, put Wrath on top, on your opponent's turn tap Alchemsit, miracle draw Wrath and slam it for another 5. That's 9 damage and 2 cards for 3 mana with a little set up. You can do similar things with any scry ability.
Beetle and Noble make a sac deck look good. Mind you, Beetle triggers on ANY players sacrifice so Chainer's Edict....Gnawing Zombie helps add to that strategy. You could make it a G/B deck and run a few Eldrazi token makers like Nest Invader to get extra bodies but also easily saccable tokens.
BTE makes stompy way better but I could also see it enabling a serious Gruul deck using Jund Hackblade as others have mentioned. Heck, even Goblin Bushwacker is good. Turn 1 Foundry Street Denizen into BTE into Bushwacker? 9 dmg on turn 2.... Denizen -> BTE -> Hackblade is still 6 dmg. Hackblade is way worse without BTE unless you can find a way to play some other multi-colored creatures.
I think Spike Jester is a super interesting option because it could help enable a decent Rakdos Aggro deck as well since they already have Jund Hackblade and Rakdos Shred-Freak, which does make enough hybrid color creatures to make Hackblade reasonable. That's a lot of Hastey 2-drops. Could be something, could be nothing. The mana cost may just be too dang awkward for an aggro deck like this to really work fast enough to be worth it. Hackblade is a strictly worse Shred-Freak without another multi-color creature but their low toughness means any reasonable blocker decimates your board.
We have a few archetypes that win with this set. Namely G/X Aggro/Mid-Range wins big with this set. Conclave is a super efficient body and already has a lot of other interesting pieces like Centaur Healer. They could go Gruul for BTE or Scourge Devil. They could go Black with Angler, etc. Thunderous Wrath is a big win for Izzet IMO because blue offers so much in terms of Scry and Instant speed draw. This might push B/W Mimic into the next tier as well.
We might also see the start of some new archetypes such as a B/X Sacrifice. I really hope this takes off because its a very interactive strategy. I would also love to see Dinrova Horror take off but I have no idea where that would go. It seems like it could be decent value attached to a reasonable body. Izzet Counter-Burn might actually have what it takes to become an actual thing now too. I like Grixis Slavedriver too. I mean, its a lot of mana but it provides so many bodies for the cost that...I just feel like its got to be worth something.
Revive might be the sleeper hit of this set. G/B Delve is a pretty good deck and Revive is a super clutch addition because it puts the creature right back in hand. It might not be good enough though because using Reclaim to grab removal and similar things is a really big deal. Not to mention some of the most important creatures in the deck are black.
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Magma Jet
That sweet scry 2 can help dodge unnecessary lands in later turns for Burn/Sleigh lists and might also provide some card quality in control lists.
Mortician Beetle
We've seen ppl playing around with Carrion Feeder and Bloodbriar, and this seems like a strong card in some GB sacrifice list.
Burning Tree Emissary Not only is this an incredibly strong and aggressive two-drop, it might also enable some sick combo-oriented plays. Think Unearth, Undying Evil...
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Magma Jet slots nicely into Burn decks over the Incinerate/Searing Spear/Lightning Strike that were fighting for the last 3 or so slots. Could also help a control deck like Murasa Tron or UR control smooth out their draws in the early game while still removing a threat.
Mortician Beetle helps boost a tier 3 deck in BG sacrifice. I don't think it's enough to make that deck competitive since the manabase is pretty bad though.
Augur of Bolas was also just revealed which could work very well in some of the "spells matter" decks of the format. I could see UB Teachings liking this card over Sea Gate Oracle too since it comes down earlier. Unlike Sea Gate though it can't dig for land drops early or Mulldrifter when you want to pull ahead though.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
I think UB and UR control is going to try him but I think seagate will be better in the long run.
I think Augur shines best as a 1 or 2 of in a Kiln fiend or U/x delver deck. As a chump blocker that can dig into key peices / gas
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
this seems correct to me
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
good point on rewind, I do think conclave is worth considering over other options. Maybe not domain zoo, but being a socery has advantages, such as triggering prowess(not very relevant), enabling delirium (slightly more relevant), or reusability. As far as spike jester is concerned, I think red black aggro has been passable for a while, but the argument for just going red as always won out. Spike jester allows the deck to make up the tempo loss fro playing tap lands. There are actually quite a few interesting black goblin cards.
of course these are just thoughts for interesting deck ideas. The main ones are going to be Magma Jet, Mortician Beetle, Burning Tree Emissary, and Augur of Bolas.
Scourge devil might also
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Many of those other cards were already common. Slim molding is an interesting option for tron though. It gives you an early blocker and a wincon which is may be worth a slot if you are short on space in the deck and need both.
My thoughts:
Burn might be too good now. 4 Magma Jet helps set up a solid 1-3 of Thunderous Wrath. Beyond that I can't imagine a world where 4x Magma Jet isn't just the default. Hell, that was what Modern and Legacy used to run before the printing of other options! Burns biggest downfall was always inconsistency (hate cards not withstanding). Magma Jet goes a long way to fixing that.
On the other hand, Thunderous Wrath makes a serious Counter-Burn deck look much more likely. We have access to Ponder, Preordain, and Brainstorm (which more and more makes Pauper look like budget Legacy). Before you needed to do whatever you could to make Galvanic Blast work which made the decklist really tight. Now you can rock Thunderous Wrath, maybe even as a 4-of, and Magma Jet with Lightning Bolt as your burn package. Then you could run Thermo-Alchemist + Tandem Lookout to turn all of your spells into cantrips. Tap Alchemist, draw 1, Cast Magma Jet, untap, Scry 2, put Wrath on top, on your opponent's turn tap Alchemsit, miracle draw Wrath and slam it for another 5. That's 9 damage and 2 cards for 3 mana with a little set up. You can do similar things with any scry ability.
Beetle and Noble make a sac deck look good. Mind you, Beetle triggers on ANY players sacrifice so Chainer's Edict....Gnawing Zombie helps add to that strategy. You could make it a G/B deck and run a few Eldrazi token makers like Nest Invader to get extra bodies but also easily saccable tokens.
BTE makes stompy way better but I could also see it enabling a serious Gruul deck using Jund Hackblade as others have mentioned. Heck, even Goblin Bushwacker is good. Turn 1 Foundry Street Denizen into BTE into Bushwacker? 9 dmg on turn 2.... Denizen -> BTE -> Hackblade is still 6 dmg. Hackblade is way worse without BTE unless you can find a way to play some other multi-colored creatures.
I think Spike Jester is a super interesting option because it could help enable a decent Rakdos Aggro deck as well since they already have Jund Hackblade and Rakdos Shred-Freak, which does make enough hybrid color creatures to make Hackblade reasonable. That's a lot of Hastey 2-drops. Could be something, could be nothing. The mana cost may just be too dang awkward for an aggro deck like this to really work fast enough to be worth it. Hackblade is a strictly worse Shred-Freak without another multi-color creature but their low toughness means any reasonable blocker decimates your board.
We have a few archetypes that win with this set. Namely G/X Aggro/Mid-Range wins big with this set. Conclave is a super efficient body and already has a lot of other interesting pieces like Centaur Healer. They could go Gruul for BTE or Scourge Devil. They could go Black with Angler, etc. Thunderous Wrath is a big win for Izzet IMO because blue offers so much in terms of Scry and Instant speed draw. This might push B/W Mimic into the next tier as well.
We might also see the start of some new archetypes such as a B/X Sacrifice. I really hope this takes off because its a very interactive strategy. I would also love to see Dinrova Horror take off but I have no idea where that would go. It seems like it could be decent value attached to a reasonable body. Izzet Counter-Burn might actually have what it takes to become an actual thing now too. I like Grixis Slavedriver too. I mean, its a lot of mana but it provides so many bodies for the cost that...I just feel like its got to be worth something.
Revive might be the sleeper hit of this set. G/B Delve is a pretty good deck and Revive is a super clutch addition because it puts the creature right back in hand. It might not be good enough though because using Reclaim to grab removal and similar things is a really big deal. Not to mention some of the most important creatures in the deck are black.
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