This is a thread for discussing how best to beat down Drake. Secondary focus should be on finding or making a deck that does well against Drake, Affinity and Delver at the same time. In other words, we need a Blue Moon type of meta killer.
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Pauper: UB Wight Phantasm RB Burn UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
From personal experience, if you want to beat drake, play teachings. I've been on the deck for about 2 years, and drake hasn't been too much of an issue for me. I didn't need to adjust my sideboard to beat the deck, and I have a decent win percentage against it. You have a better end game, and have enough answers to stop their combo. I usually play grixis teachings though, not the standard UB version. On the topic of drake itself, I'm surprised that Grixis drake has not yet caught on. I've found it to be much better than UR, but that's just my two cents.
Not terrible. I have 4 mb terminate, 1 flame slash, and 1 skred to deal with their 4/4's. I also have edicts as well but those don't always guarantee killing a 4/4. In the board I have 2 gorilla shaman which can win games on their own. I would say it's about 50/50 if the affinity pilot knows what they are doing. The one matchup that is quite bad though is stompy. You are an underdog in that matchup. Delver is about a 40/60 matchup. But historically I think that has been the case for teachings for a while now.
I'm thinking some kind of faster than usual Tortured Existence deck using mainboard Faerie Macabre. It's Discard ability is uncounterable and can snipe out Ghostly Flicker while on the grave plus another card you need (Firebolt, Compulsive Research or Rolling Thunder). Recurring the Fae as needed with TortEx makes it impossible for them to win, and does a lot of damage against other decks that rely on the 'yard (Thresh, Delve, Teachings, Rakdos Reanimator, even the mirror if this catches on). Including Green to the mix makes us able to deal with both Affinity's Artifacts and Delver, as Delver's main weakness is undercosted Green beaters, plus we have sideboard tech in Take Down and Aerial Volley. Nimble Mongoose in particular benefits from turbo Graveyard filling and is pretty difficult to remove for the Drake deck. Here's a rough experimental list:
Grapple with the Past allows us to cheat on lands by allowing us to recover fetchlands in order to crack more, and is also graveyard filler and extra instant speed Fae recovery against Drake. We can also use it EOT against Delver to try and bait Counterspells, or to respond to a Graveyard wipe by getting Stinkweed Imp back to hand in order to start dredging as soon as possible. Both Delver and Drake's plan B of flying Beatdown struggle against Stinkweed Imp as well. Cheap / Free instant speed removal in Ghastly Demise and Snuff Out respectively provide us with fast pieces of interaction that can come outta nowhere and help interrupt the combo in case we don't draw into Faerie in time, or can simply remove blockers from our attacker's path. Commune with the Gods also turbofills the yard for the Thresh creatures while digging 5 cards deep for Fae or TortEx. With so many 4/4's and removal, we're at par with Affinity, but since ours can keep coming back we'll eventually outgrind them here. Sideboard choices will probably include Caustic Caterpillar as further Affinity hate, Aerial Volley against Drake / Delver, Pulse of Murasa to shift into a little bit grindier mode, and some sort of Creature toolbox.
Keep in mind, however, that this isn't a traditional TortEx build and that it functions first and foremost as an Aggro deck, sort of a TortEx Stompy that can shift a bit into Midrange mode if needed be.
Faerie Macabre and removal that exiles is a great way to break up the combo, but, you have to be careful that you still have some way to finish quickly. Even if you break up the combo once, Drake decks can create tons of hand advantage and just beat you down. You also have to take into account that the best Drake players and deckbuilders will be adapting to the countermeta. Drake/Flicker combo is pretty much the most consistent end game out there. Don't be surprised if you see Drake decks shift to more of a controlling shell and then just waits to make sure you have no way to answer the combo when they decide to go off.
Most Drake lists I've seen to date are pretty uninspired. Few seem to take into account cards that beat them, because for the most part Drake doesn't have to. It's huge favorite in game one and post board, you opponent still has to draw their Drake meta two games in a row. With that kind of an advantage, it's no wonder that most of the Drake lists are pretty lazy and obvious. It won't remain that way. People who are really good with Drake will plug the holes and it will only get to be harder of a task to take Drake down. To the point where you have too much of your sideboard and/or maindeck devoted to beating Drake that it just folds to everything else.
If you're playing online, then the clock can be a real problem for Drake players at times too, so make sure you use that to your advantage
I'm thinking some kind of faster than usual Tortured Existence deck using mainboard Faerie Macabre. It's Discard ability is uncounterable and can snipe out Ghostly Flicker while on the grave plus another card you need (Firebolt, Compulsive Research or Rolling Thunder). Recurring the Fae as needed with TortEx makes it impossible for them to win, and does a lot of damage against other decks that rely on the 'yard (Thresh, Delve, Teachings, Rakdos Reanimator, even the mirror if this catches on). Including Green to the mix makes us able to deal with both Affinity's Artifacts and Delver, as Delver's main weakness is undercosted Green beaters, plus we have sideboard tech in Take Down and Aerial Volley. Nimble Mongoose in particular benefits from turbo Graveyard filling and is pretty difficult to remove for the Drake deck. Here's a rough experimental list:
Grapple with the Past allows us to cheat on lands by allowing us to recover fetchlands in order to crack more, and is also graveyard filler and extra instant speed Fae recovery against Drake. We can also use it EOT against Delver to try and bait Counterspells, or to respond to a Graveyard wipe by getting Stinkweed Imp back to hand in order to start dredging as soon as possible. Both Delver and Drake's plan B of flying Beatdown struggle against Stinkweed Imp as well. Cheap / Free instant speed removal in Ghastly Demise and Snuff Out respectively provide us with fast pieces of interaction that can come outta nowhere and help interrupt the combo in case we don't draw into Faerie in time, or can simply remove blockers from our attacker's path. Commune with the Gods also turbofills the yard for the Thresh creatures while digging 5 cards deep for Fae or TortEx. With so many 4/4's and removal, we're at par with Affinity, but since ours can keep coming back we'll eventually outgrind them here. Sideboard choices will probably include Caustic Caterpillar as further Affinity hate, Aerial Volley against Drake / Delver, Pulse of Murasa to shift into a little bit grindier mode, and some sort of Creature toolbox.
Keep in mind, however, that this isn't a traditional TortEx build and that it functions first and foremost as an Aggro deck, sort of a TortEx Stompy that can shift a bit into Midrange mode if needed be.
The issue that I see with tortured existence is that you need existence online to be able to compete with the drake deck. If you don't get it online under their counter magic, you are dead in the water. You might be able to stop the combo, but you will lose the long game. I've played against existence decks with drake, and often times I value them out while macabre sits in their hand doing nothing until they are forced to cast it. I find this even easier when splashing black in the drake deck, as you get access to a whole new angle of attack.
Renegade Freighter seems to be making some splash in Pauper. Alex Ullman has been playing with him and singing his praises, and even a Mono Black Aggro decklist that was playing the train managed to 5-0. Now, where does this bring us?
1) Drake has no way to deal with Freighter outside of Lightning Bolt and not every Drake list runs 4 of them. Thus this is a problematic card for them to answer.
2) Even if they keep dealing with your critters before they enter the red zone and try to grind you out and drown you in card advantage, Freighter gives every creature with power 2+ (which is a super reasonable requirement for an Aggro deck) pseudo Haste, meaning that they will impact the board even if they get removed inmediately by crewing Freighter and allowing it to hit.
3) It's a 4-turn clock by itself. Again, in an Aggro deck this means that 2-3 hits of this will close out the game after the initial horde of aggression. It even has trample, so it can't be chumpblocked for time.
4) It's great stats to cost ratio means that it's awesome when combined with other under the curve creatures like Kird Ape, Werebear or Nimble Mongoose and with Burn spells alike, which Picelli concluded were the recipe for victory. This means we can onslaught the Drake with super cheap beats early, keep the pressure going with Freighter while they try to stabilize the onslaught with removal, and finish off with some burn spells, which also double as disruption against their combo.
I think a zoo-esque Gruul deck loaded with burn spells and cheap creatures is the best way to fight the Drake, something with a shell similar to this:
Running somewhere between 6 and 8 fetchlands will allow us to reliably turn on the zoo dudes as well as the Thresh guys. Grapple with the Past acts as graveyard filler for Thresh, land filtering by picking fetches, or simply creature selection like a Green Anticipate. Running a singleton Plains to bump up Nacatl to 3/3 when we don't need anymore color fixing also opens up to some White sideboard cards. Thunderbolt might be a bit mediocre, but it kills Drake dead and is also good against Delver as it can hit Spire Golem, and Somber Hoverguard and Auriok Sunchaser against Affinity, which were the three suggested matchups, and at least isn't dead against other matchups as well.
Keldon Marauders and Scab-Clan Mauler also do a mighty job at early aggression while being able to crew Freighter, especially Marauders which now has two attack phases of damage-dealing instead of just one. A turn 3 Freighter into turn 4 Marauders equals to 10 damage if you can untap with Marauder, and if you don't it's still 7 damage.
Wild Mongrel could also be played to fill the yard faster for the Threshold guys and to have Fiery Temper as Bolts 5-8, and also crews Freighter by itself.
Renegade Freighter seems to be making some splash in Pauper. Alex Ullman has been playing with him and singing his praises, and even a Mono Black Aggro decklist that was playing the train managed to 5-0. Now, where does this bring us?
1) Drake has no way to deal with Freighter outside of Lightning Bolt and not every Drake list runs 4 of them. Thus this is a problematic card for them to answer.
2) Even if they keep dealing with your critters before they enter the red zone and try to grind you out and drown you in card advantage, Freighter gives every creature with power 2+ (which is a super reasonable requirement for an Aggro deck) pseudo Haste, meaning that they will impact the board even if they get removed inmediately by crewing Freighter and allowing it to hit.
3) It's a 4-turn clock by itself. Again, in an Aggro deck this means that 2-3 hits of this will close out the game after the initial horde of aggression. It even has trample, so it can't be chumpblocked for time.
4) It's great stats to cost ratio means that it's awesome when combined with other under the curve creatures like Kird Ape, Werebear or Nimble Mongoose and with Burn spells alike, which Picelli concluded were the recipe for victory. This means we can onslaught the Drake with super cheap beats early, keep the pressure going with Freighter while they try to stabilize the onslaught with removal, and finish off with some burn spells, which also double as disruption against their combo.
I think a zoo-esque Gruul deck loaded with burn spells and cheap creatures is the best way to fight the Drake, something with a shell similar to this:
Running somewhere between 6 and 8 fetchlands will allow us to reliably turn on the zoo dudes as well as the Thresh guys, and them costing 1-2 mana and being above the curve means we don't lose much tempo running a fetch manabase. Grapple with the Past acts as graveyard filler for Thresh, land filtering by picking fetches, or simply creature selection like a Green Anticipate. Running a singleton Plains to bump up Nacatl to 3/3 when we don't need anymore color fixing also opens up to some White sideboard cards. Thunderbolt might be a bit mediocre, but it kills Drake dead and is also good against Delver as it can hit Spire Golem, and Somber Hoverguard and Auriok Sunchaser against Affinity, which were the three suggested matchups, and at least isn't dead against other matchups as well.
Keldon Marauders and Scab-Clan Mauler also do a mighty job at early aggression while being able to crew Freighter, especially Marauders which now has two attack phases of damage-dealing instead of just one. A turn 3 Freighter into turn 4 Marauders equals to 10 damage if you can untap with Marauder, and if you don't it's still 7 damage.
Wild Mongrel could also be played to fill the yard faster for the Threshold guys and to have Fiery Temper as Bolts 5-8, and also crews Freighter by itself.
The issue with Drake isn't that it has no counters, it's that it warps the meta. It's common knowledge that extremely fast or extremely controlling decks like Stompy, Reanimator, or Teachings are strong vs Drake. The problem is that decks like Kuldotha and MBC get pushed out.
I just don't see Freighter being an "answer" to Drake decks. It can, in ideal situations, help close out a game quicker, however you can also find yourself getting time walked on the turn you tap a creature to crew the Freighter and then watching it get bolted, essentially costing you at least a turn.
Well Drake's getting the ban hammer. I play burn so I'm not too happy about that, I got a feeling that burn might become unplayable again once the meta changes.
Well Drake's getting the ban hammer. I play burn so I'm not too happy about that, I got a feeling that burn might become unplayable again once the meta changes.
necro'd a thread to talk about something unrelated to the topic. Drake died, this thread should die too.
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UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Not terrible. I have 4 mb terminate, 1 flame slash, and 1 skred to deal with their 4/4's. I also have edicts as well but those don't always guarantee killing a 4/4. In the board I have 2 gorilla shaman which can win games on their own. I would say it's about 50/50 if the affinity pilot knows what they are doing. The one matchup that is quite bad though is stompy. You are an underdog in that matchup. Delver is about a 40/60 matchup. But historically I think that has been the case for teachings for a while now.
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Werebear
3 Arrogant Wurm
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Grapple with the Past
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Snuff Out
Enchantment (3)
3 Tortured Existence
Sorcery (4)
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Forest
6 Swamp
Grapple with the Past allows us to cheat on lands by allowing us to recover fetchlands in order to crack more, and is also graveyard filler and extra instant speed Fae recovery against Drake. We can also use it EOT against Delver to try and bait Counterspells, or to respond to a Graveyard wipe by getting Stinkweed Imp back to hand in order to start dredging as soon as possible. Both Delver and Drake's plan B of flying Beatdown struggle against Stinkweed Imp as well. Cheap / Free instant speed removal in Ghastly Demise and Snuff Out respectively provide us with fast pieces of interaction that can come outta nowhere and help interrupt the combo in case we don't draw into Faerie in time, or can simply remove blockers from our attacker's path. Commune with the Gods also turbofills the yard for the Thresh creatures while digging 5 cards deep for Fae or TortEx. With so many 4/4's and removal, we're at par with Affinity, but since ours can keep coming back we'll eventually outgrind them here. Sideboard choices will probably include Caustic Caterpillar as further Affinity hate, Aerial Volley against Drake / Delver, Pulse of Murasa to shift into a little bit grindier mode, and some sort of Creature toolbox.
Keep in mind, however, that this isn't a traditional TortEx build and that it functions first and foremost as an Aggro deck, sort of a TortEx Stompy that can shift a bit into Midrange mode if needed be.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Most Drake lists I've seen to date are pretty uninspired. Few seem to take into account cards that beat them, because for the most part Drake doesn't have to. It's huge favorite in game one and post board, you opponent still has to draw their Drake meta two games in a row. With that kind of an advantage, it's no wonder that most of the Drake lists are pretty lazy and obvious. It won't remain that way. People who are really good with Drake will plug the holes and it will only get to be harder of a task to take Drake down. To the point where you have too much of your sideboard and/or maindeck devoted to beating Drake that it just folds to everything else.
If you're playing online, then the clock can be a real problem for Drake players at times too, so make sure you use that to your advantage
The issue that I see with tortured existence is that you need existence online to be able to compete with the drake deck. If you don't get it online under their counter magic, you are dead in the water. You might be able to stop the combo, but you will lose the long game. I've played against existence decks with drake, and often times I value them out while macabre sits in their hand doing nothing until they are forced to cast it. I find this even easier when splashing black in the drake deck, as you get access to a whole new angle of attack.
1) Drake has no way to deal with Freighter outside of Lightning Bolt and not every Drake list runs 4 of them. Thus this is a problematic card for them to answer.
2) Even if they keep dealing with your critters before they enter the red zone and try to grind you out and drown you in card advantage, Freighter gives every creature with power 2+ (which is a super reasonable requirement for an Aggro deck) pseudo Haste, meaning that they will impact the board even if they get removed inmediately by crewing Freighter and allowing it to hit.
3) It's a 4-turn clock by itself. Again, in an Aggro deck this means that 2-3 hits of this will close out the game after the initial horde of aggression. It even has trample, so it can't be chumpblocked for time.
4) It's great stats to cost ratio means that it's awesome when combined with other under the curve creatures like Kird Ape, Werebear or Nimble Mongoose and with Burn spells alike, which Picelli concluded were the recipe for victory. This means we can onslaught the Drake with super cheap beats early, keep the pressure going with Freighter while they try to stabilize the onslaught with removal, and finish off with some burn spells, which also double as disruption against their combo.
I think a zoo-esque Gruul deck loaded with burn spells and cheap creatures is the best way to fight the Drake, something with a shell similar to this:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Kird Ape
4 Werebear
3 Renegade Freighter
Instant (7)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thunderbolt
Running somewhere between 6 and 8 fetchlands will allow us to reliably turn on the zoo dudes as well as the Thresh guys. Grapple with the Past acts as graveyard filler for Thresh, land filtering by picking fetches, or simply creature selection like a Green Anticipate. Running a singleton Plains to bump up Nacatl to 3/3 when we don't need anymore color fixing also opens up to some White sideboard cards. Thunderbolt might be a bit mediocre, but it kills Drake dead and is also good against Delver as it can hit Spire Golem, and Somber Hoverguard and Auriok Sunchaser against Affinity, which were the three suggested matchups, and at least isn't dead against other matchups as well.
Keldon Marauders and Scab-Clan Mauler also do a mighty job at early aggression while being able to crew Freighter, especially Marauders which now has two attack phases of damage-dealing instead of just one. A turn 3 Freighter into turn 4 Marauders equals to 10 damage if you can untap with Marauder, and if you don't it's still 7 damage.
Wild Mongrel could also be played to fill the yard faster for the Threshold guys and to have Fiery Temper as Bolts 5-8, and also crews Freighter by itself.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
1) Drake has no way to deal with Freighter outside of Lightning Bolt and not every Drake list runs 4 of them. Thus this is a problematic card for them to answer.
2) Even if they keep dealing with your critters before they enter the red zone and try to grind you out and drown you in card advantage, Freighter gives every creature with power 2+ (which is a super reasonable requirement for an Aggro deck) pseudo Haste, meaning that they will impact the board even if they get removed inmediately by crewing Freighter and allowing it to hit.
3) It's a 4-turn clock by itself. Again, in an Aggro deck this means that 2-3 hits of this will close out the game after the initial horde of aggression. It even has trample, so it can't be chumpblocked for time.
4) It's great stats to cost ratio means that it's awesome when combined with other under the curve creatures like Kird Ape, Werebear or Nimble Mongoose and with Burn spells alike, which Picelli concluded were the recipe for victory. This means we can onslaught the Drake with super cheap beats early, keep the pressure going with Freighter while they try to stabilize the onslaught with removal, and finish off with some burn spells, which also double as disruption against their combo.
I think a zoo-esque Gruul deck loaded with burn spells and cheap creatures is the best way to fight the Drake, something with a shell similar to this:
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Kird Ape
4 Werebear
3 Renegade Freighter
Instant (7)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thunderbolt
Running somewhere between 6 and 8 fetchlands will allow us to reliably turn on the zoo dudes as well as the Thresh guys, and them costing 1-2 mana and being above the curve means we don't lose much tempo running a fetch manabase. Grapple with the Past acts as graveyard filler for Thresh, land filtering by picking fetches, or simply creature selection like a Green Anticipate. Running a singleton Plains to bump up Nacatl to 3/3 when we don't need anymore color fixing also opens up to some White sideboard cards. Thunderbolt might be a bit mediocre, but it kills Drake dead and is also good against Delver as it can hit Spire Golem, and Somber Hoverguard and Auriok Sunchaser against Affinity, which were the three suggested matchups, and at least isn't dead against other matchups as well.
Keldon Marauders and Scab-Clan Mauler also do a mighty job at early aggression while being able to crew Freighter, especially Marauders which now has two attack phases of damage-dealing instead of just one. A turn 3 Freighter into turn 4 Marauders equals to 10 damage if you can untap with Marauder, and if you don't it's still 7 damage.
Wild Mongrel could also be played to fill the yard faster for the Threshold guys and to have Fiery Temper as Bolts 5-8, and also crews Freighter by itself.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
necro'd a thread to talk about something unrelated to the topic. Drake died, this thread should die too.