Blightning is an old favorite of mine, but I don't know if it'd be at home here. You kind of have to craft a game plan where you can trade their cards away to nothing, and this deck is more threats than answers.
This is just kind of stretching it. There aren't any artifacts we can tutor which help our actual game plan at a reasonable cost - the nearest thing is Wayfarer's Bauble and that's just outlandishly overpriced. Bonesplitter is a good card, but our problem isn't that our creatures don't have enough power, it's that we need to push through damage through blockers/removal.
The latest winning builds have been running Doom Blade in the board. It's a good card for the same reasons as it's good for Affinity, in that it kills most stuff that won't just die chump-blocking. Broad, multidirectional sideboard cards are good in a healthy, diverse metagame.
The 21st land [...] this deck deals with flooding very well
I could see upping the land count, but I don't think this deck handles flood well at all. We haven't got any good outlets for excess mana, because good outlets for excess mana don't fit well with the very aggressive main gameplan.
Cutting Brainstorm: Now this might be heresy, and again I haven't played the deck much so I could be wrong, but the Brainstorms just feel very clunky to me. In some lategame situations they're okay, but to get full value you need to have both a fetchland and things you want to shuffle away. That's all very well when you're mana flooded, but in general our card quality is so high there are few cards you really want to pitch outside of the obvious Squadron Hawks.
Playing Brainstorm effectively is very skill-intensive, and it plays a bit differently in Pauper than elsewhere.
If you like all your cards, but need to put two back and shuffle them away, then congratulations, you're having a good day. Remember that they're just going back in your deck, and pick the two things you're least likely to want access to soon. It's generally okay to choke on land drops a little after the third or so, so maybe let that happen if it means keeping spells?
It's also occasionally correct to Brainstorm with no live shuffle. Sometimes this is because you're looking for a fetch/squawk, sometimes you just want to find a second or third Tribal Flames to slam the game shut out of nowhere. Your least-relevant cards are generally still pretty relevant when you re-draw them, especially if you haven't flooded your hand with lands.
MBC's removal swarm will hit you early, because they have to kill everything, because we can bulldoze/Rancor their chump-blockers. I haven't seen UR Midrange much, but I bet they do the same thing. The main way to beat this is to lean into it, feeding them must-answer threats until they're exhausted, then kill them before they recover.
What this means is that you're better off casting on-curve with an Unearth next turn than waiting two extra turns so you can cast with Altar's Reap/Perilous Research backup. This is also why you generally see Unearth over Undying Evil.
I also hate playing Young Wolf in this deck, because he just doesn't beat down very hard. Luckily, the necessity of this evil - the previously extreme dominance of MBC over the meta - has waned considerably.
Personally, I just run mythreepanoramas and four Wild Nacatl and four Abundant Growth, and call it good - I'm more concerned with having a convincing second and third turn than a first. If I was going to pick up one of these, though, it'd be the Skarrgan Pit-Skulk - his Aura Gnarlid evasion is nontrivial.
It's been discussed a lot, perhaps not in this thread. Duress is a solid play in the "exhaust their removal/counterspells" game-plan, especially any time we're anticipating Pauper Cryptic Command; the main issue is trying to cast it ahead of your creatures, which involves getting B up quickly. I haven't felt the need to play it, but it's a reasonable choice.
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Overall, I think we're well within this deck's "sweet spot" (note the recent results, and thanks to DimeCollector/Jason Moore for mentioning this deck in a StarCityGames article) - we just have a lot of room for personalized build and variations. I would be suspicious of shifting the focus of the deck too much.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
Blightning is an old favorite of mine, but I don't know if it'd be at home here. You kind of have to craft a game plan where you can trade their cards away to nothing, and this deck is more threats than answers.
That is true. I'll try a few copies in the board for now, but they'll probably end up as Duresses or something else if I don't like them in testing.
The effect is good, but resolving a 2G aura on a non-hexproof creature is pretty difficult. The damage-to-cost ratio is also not especially great.
That's true, but you want to board it in for long, grindy matchups where the CA is more important than the short-term damage. It does stretch their removal a lot further, and if they do ever tap out, resolving this is more permanent than say a Matca Rioters, as they now have to kill your best guy twice. I've played with the card several times now and each time it's been left unchecked it's singlehandedly won me the game, so they're staying for now. I'm keeping an open mind though, there may be more effective ways to win grindy games that are less vulnerable, but I think this is quite high-impact for the slots.
EDIT: Rereading this, I didn't make my main point clear enough. What I basically mean is it forces them to deal with a creature they wouldn't have otherwise been forced to deal with. A 2-power flyer vs MBC is not super threatening, but a 3/4 flying Ninja of the Deep Hours certainly is. Even if you get 2-for-1ed, it's still one less removal spell for your Matca Rioters, and many MBC builds don't run a great deal of spot removal, so it stretches their resources quite thin.
This is just kind of stretching it. There aren't any artifacts we can tutor which help our actual game plan at a reasonable cost - the nearest thing is Wayfarer's Bauble and that's just outlandishly overpriced. Bonesplitter is a good card, but our problem isn't that our creatures don't have enough power, it's that we need to push through damage through blockers/removal.
Fair enough. Just some tech I noticed someone running.
The latest winning builds have been running Doom Blade in the board. It's a good card for the same reasons as it's good for Affinity, in that it kills most stuff that won't just die chump-blocking. Broad, multidirectional sideboard cards are good in a healthy, diverse metagame.
Do you think Doom Blade is a straight upgrade to Journey here, or should we run a split? Journey does have some benefits in being able to exile things and pumping our Gnarlid, although it's sorcery speed (which is certainly much worse vs Atog and Delver).
I could see upping the land count, but I don't think this deck handles flood well at all. We haven't got any good outlets for excess mana, because good outlets for excess mana don't fit well with the very aggressive main gameplan.
Hmm. It's probably my limited experience with the deck, so I'll play another 20 matches or so and then see how I feel about the land count and the deck's ability to cope with flood.
Playing Brainstorm effectively is very skill-intensive, and it plays a bit differently in Pauper than elsewhere.
If you like all your cards, but need to put two back and shuffle them away, then congratulations, you're having a good day. Remember that they're just going back in your deck, and pick the two things you're least likely to want access to soon. It's generally okay to choke on land drops a little after the third or so, so maybe let that happen if it means keeping spells?
It's also occasionally correct to Brainstorm with no live shuffle. Sometimes this is because you're looking for a fetch/squawk, sometimes you just want to find a second or third Tribal Flames to slam the game shut out of nowhere. Your least-relevant cards are generally still pretty relevant when you re-draw them, especially if you haven't flooded your hand with lands.
Fair enough. As above, I'll keep playing with it for a while and then see how it's performing for me after a lot more matches. I've never really played with Brainstorm in any format, so I'm probably grossly undervaluing it.
EDIT: When, if ever, is it correct to board out Brainstorm? I've been taking it out where I don't have anything else to cut and I need to bring in utility spells without diluting my creature base. My rule of thumb is usually "would I rather draw a Brainstorm or a [card]?", but since I haven't found Brainstorm all that great, I've been bringing them out rather often. I still think it's probably correct to bring them out against much faster decks, where you're not really going to have the time to cast it.
MBC's removal swarm will hit you early, because they have to kill everything, because we can bulldoze/Rancor their chump-blockers. I haven't seen UR Midrange much, but I bet they do the same thing. The main way to beat this is to lean into it, feeding them must-answer threats until they're exhausted, then kill them before they recover.
What this means is that you're better off casting on-curve with an Unearth next turn than waiting two extra turns so you can cast with Altar's Reap/Perilous Research backup. This is also why you generally see Unearth over Undying Evil.
That's true.
Although now that you mention it, Undying Evil does seem very good against them as well, as any time after turn 3 you're usually going to have enough mana to back it up. I might test it against MBC, as unlike say Spider Umbra it beats Edicts, and you can't really get 2-for-1'ed in response.
I also hate playing Young Wolf in this deck, because he just doesn't beat down very hard. Luckily, the necessity of this evil - the previously extreme dominance of MBC over the meta - has waned considerably.
Personally, I just run mythreepanoramas and four Wild Nacatl and four Abundant Growth, and call it good - I'm more concerned with having a convincing second and third turn than a first. If I was going to pick up one of these, though, it'd be the Skarrgan Pit-Skulk - his Aura Gnarlid evasion is nontrivial.
Fair enough. Again, just an idea; this deck is at its best focusing on the midgame anyway.
It's been discussed a lot, perhaps not in this thread. Duress is a solid play in the "exhaust their removal/counterspells" game-plan, especially any time we're anticipating Pauper Cryptic Command; the main issue is trying to cast it ahead of your creatures, which involves getting B up quickly. I haven't felt the need to play it, but it's a reasonable choice.
The more I think about it, the more I like Duress. The information is invaluable, as it lets you bait counters more effectively and craft a gameplan around sticking a big threat. It's also our only real out to Exclude short of playing Dispel (or, I suppose, Mana Leak, although that seems pretty marginal vs a blue deck). And playing against a counterspell deck, you often want B up fairly quickly anyway, for Unearth, and I haven't had any trouble (so far - touch wood) with getting the colours I need in a timely fashion.
I took up some changes proposed in the thread, playing Snake Umbra over Brainstorm. I also changed around the sideboard a lot and I like it so far. Brainstorm often felt awkwardly slow and the card advantage with Squawks was seldom relevant. Snake Umbra was ok in my test games. It makes the creature you put it on a target for all the creature hate your opponent has. This is usually good, because there is often a big beater along one or two small flyers which are immediate threats with an Umbra. I also like Lighning Bolt over Staggershock, as in my experience the deck is often tight on mana up to turn 7, where a Lightning Bolt often helps to keep up the pressure.
Stealthsuit is really good vs UR Control.
To be honest I don't think Snake Umbra belongs in the maindeck. It's only really good in slow, grindy matchups, where the extra CA is super relevant. The +1/+1 is just too small for its cost to be playable game 1, IMO, and certainly not with 3 copies. There are too many matchups where it's terrible. If I were going to play an Umbra effect main, I'd go with either Spider Umbra, as it's cheap and on-colour, with a non-trivial effect against Delver and the like, or Hyena Umbra, as it makes your guy near-unkillable against both removal AND creature decks.
I agree with Lightning Bolt; I haven't yet tested Staggershock but I really like its cost-efficiency and, echoing previous opinions in the thread, I'd rather board in a more specific and high-impact hate card (such as Electrickery).
Speaking of which, Stealthsuit is another one on my list to test. Has anyone tried it vs MBC? If it's not effective against both, I'd probably play something more broad that's applicable against both it and UR Control (like Duress).
What are you boarding Prismatic Strands against? The front side seems extremely expensive in a deck this tight on mana, although the alternate cost is obviously great. I used to play with this in GW Slivers back in the day, and was almost always unimpressed (though it was a necessary evil against Grapeshot storm).
The entire time during the last match when I was color screwed and kept off double white I was thinking "Damnit Jaden, that troll-faced bastard might be right."
Do you think Doom Blade is a straight upgrade to Journey here, or should we run a split? Journey does have some benefits in being able to exile things and pumping our Gnarlid, although it's sorcery speed (which is certainly much worse vs Atog and Delver).
Aura Gnarlid only likes auras. Now, you COULD run Temporal Isolation, but I strongly favor the ability to make a creature disappear from the battlefield completely AND at instant speed - it buys us a little game against Atog.
The more I think about it, the more I like Duress. The information is invaluable, as it lets you bait counters more effectively and craft a gameplan around sticking a big threat. It's also our only real out to Exclude short of playing Dispel (or, I suppose, Mana Leak, although that seems pretty marginal vs a blue deck). And playing against a counterspell deck, you often want B up fairly quickly anyway, for Unearth, and I haven't had any trouble (so far - touch wood) with getting the colours I need in a timely fashion.
Don't forget Pyroblast, which is a must-board against the UR builds.
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
I moved one Doom Blade to the maindeck because I was struggling to find a cut to make in the board, and it has broad applications against everything but MBC. It's been performing very well so far.
To be honest, the card I feel is the weakest link in the maindeck from my testing is Qasali Pridemage (followed by Brainstorm). The Pridemage is always okay, but never stellar. The situations where you really need it as a Naturalise game 1 are few and far between, and I often find that even when there's a target, I have to question myself about losing a guy on board to do it. The Exalted does help you push through a stalled board as a mini-rancor, which is great, as well as allowing quite aggressive openings, but the deck in general isn't geared to take advantage of it very well. It's a reasonable topdeck, but it's still the smallest guy in the deck. Next to cards like Nacatl, Skyfisher and Rioters, a 2/2 just doesn't stack up.
My dissatisfaction with Brainstorm is something I have mentioned above. There's nothing wrong with them, but I feel I'd rather something that gives me a little more gas in the lategame than a cantrip. I'm going to replace them with Compulsive Research for now, but I may swap back if I find the 3-cost prohibitive.
Cutting the two Pridemages in the main frees up two slots: one for a second Aura Gnarlid, and the 21st land. The thing that pushes this deck over the top is usually its big hitters, and since sticking one usually wins the game, adding a 5th one makes sense. The Gnarlid's evasion is always excellent, even if it's sometimes a little smaller than Rioters. The 21st land might be a little less self-explanatory, but I've just added another three 3-drops, as well as boosted the deck's ability to deal with flood somewhat in playing Compulsive Research and an extra curve-topper. My mantra has always been "when in doubt, play more lands," so I'm going to test the 21st.
The last thing I'd like to test is a single Journey to Nowhere over a Lightning Bolt. This is one change I'm not particularly sure about; I would normally choose to play a Doom Blade, but I don't want two dead cards in the main against MBC. I may swap this back though, as Lightning Bolt is very cost-efficient, and the instant speed is always great, as is the reach it provides. We'll have to see.
I also rejigged my sideboard slightly. Snake Umbra wasn't performing as well as I'd hoped, less because of the vulnerability to 2-for-1s, but because once they kill off the Umbra the creature is half the threat it used to be. If I wanted the shield effect, I'd probably play Undying Evil as my first choice, or Hyena Umbra if the meta got a little more weenie-aggro focused. Duress has been invaluable; the information alone has won me several games by letting me easily outmanoeuvre my opponent's counters/removal. Electrickery is, I feel, a necessary evil against decks like Elves, as well as being really good against Delver. I've gone down to 1 Hydroblast as its two functions are mirrored by either Duress or Doom Blade anyway.
Aura Gnarlid only likes auras. Now, you COULD run Temporal Isolation, but I strongly favor the ability to make a creature disappear from the battlefield completely AND at instant speed - it buys us a little game against Atog.
Oops! I should learn to read cards.
I agree, Temporal Isolation isn't what we want to be doing. Having played a number of matches with Doom Blade now, all I can say is I wish I drew it more often. I'll be upping the count in the 75 from 2 to 3 for sure.
Quote from LordSaturn »
Remember that drawing a Brainstorm actually makes it easier to subsequently draw your sideboard - boarding out dig spells is a bad idea, generally.
If you really don't like it, you could be the first to test Worldly Counsel - I've had it shortlisted for a while but haven't played much.
After playing with it a fair bit more, it's performing a heck of a lot better than it was in the first few matches I played. I think I just got on the unlucky end of variance at the start with this card. That said, I'm still thinking of replacing it with something that actually gains you CA. Worldy Counsel would definitely not be my pick; if anything I'd rather play Impulse simply because it's a reliable 4. But I was actually thinking more along the lines of Compulsive Research as a late-game refill card. I played two matches in the practice room with it replacing Brainstorm, and was impressed with the result. It's getting the nod from me for now, and I'll let you guys know how it goes in more serious matches.
Quote from LordSaturn »
Don't forget Pyroblast, which is a must-board against the UR builds.
I'm ahead of you, I'm running 2 in the board (was 3, but I dropped one when I added Duress).
Yeah, I played with them in the board when I first put the deck together, and to be honest I'm missing them against control. I'm going to put them back in if I can find room, although my board is getting pretty crowded.
The entire time during the last match when I was color screwed and kept off double white I was thinking "Damnit Jaden, that troll-faced bastard might be right."
It's nice to see so much discussion going on in the thread, and some great ideas are being thrown around. I haven't had time to play lately, but I've been thinking about the deck a lot. Here are some of my thoughts.
Cutting the pridemages is something that I have been considering, mostly due to the fact that it is the only 2 toughness threat in the main (squak not included) giving U/R a decent target for firebolt. That said, the card is incredibly solid and is almost never bad. I also like diversifying the threats in the main to give unearth extra options and utility. I'm a bit torn, but I think going without them could be worth a shot. It's also possible that another mid-game threat could do a better job.
Brainstorm has been on the chopping block for a lot of people, and I can understand why. It has a penchant for being slow or uncastable. But I think that, as an effect, brainstorm is warranted by the deck. Because we rely so much on lands you really cannot afford to keep hands that are land-light, so as the game progresses you are very likely to draw more lands than you would ever need for your curve. Brainstorm is a nice way to mitigate this without giving up a ton. It can be cast with a spare mana in the early game to let you set up your hand, or it can be cast in the late game to shuffle away unneeded lands. While cutting it might make things a little smoother, as the blue mana can be tough to make consistently as can setting up a fetch, it really hurts your game against flood. I think some way to combat flood is needed in the deck. Compulsive research is an interesting idea, but it seems to me that it would mostly be significantly worse than brainstorm. In the early game compulsive is stone uncastable, while if the mana works out brainstorm can significantly improve the quality of your hand without much effort. In the late game you will have plenty of lands and shuffle effects to make brainstorm essentially a draw 3, so the ability for compulsive to let you save an extra card doesn't seem too valuable. It's worth a shot, though. If I had time I would test a list with 1 compulsive and 1 brainstorm.
Duress is a card that I have tried in my board. It's been solid, but I haven't been super impressed. With all the options available for the deck I think that we can do better. I have found that most of the time I draw it I would rather have drawn an unearth.
Unearth seems great in the meta. It's fantastic against delver. It's fantastic against U/R. It's fantastic against Black. Because of this I have added a third to the main, and I have been pretty happy so far. 3 is pretty clunky for a card that is so conditional, but the effect is so powerful and the option to cycle is so reasonable that it might be worth it.
Brainstorming for ideas against the U/R lategame I have come up with some potentially sweet tech. Moldervine Cloak! Here's why:
1. All their removal is sorcery, so they can't kill your dude in response. This protects you from blowouts.
2. All their removal is damage based, so to kill a cloaked creature they have to use at least 2 removal spells, which is really good for you.
3. It can't be excluded, which is a card that is really effective in the matchup. This means the only counter that can actually stop it is actual counterspell
4. It can dredge back. So even if they do deal with it by using multiple removal spells or by countering, you can simply dredge it back next turn. They have no graveyard interaction whatsoever, so if you draw even one cloak you will have it for the rest of the game. This means that the only method they have of stopping it is to kill every one of your creatures, which is really difficult.
It also could be a powerful way of having a quick and resilient clock against black, though it is obviously less good because of instant speed removal and destroy-creature effects. It could also have a place in the maindeck as a way to mitigate flood. Test it out, but be sure to report how it does, since I am eager to see.
Also worthy of note, Dan from MTGOstrat has said that he fell in love with the deck and has been playing it exclusively. I would like to what he has to say about it, and maybe see if he has any changes to report or new tech to try.
I think Moldervine Cloak may work against UR for the reasons you stated. You still have to watch out for Lightning Bolt and Electrostatic Bolt, but yeah, a lot of it is sorcery speed.
I'm not sure it would be good against MBC, though. In fact, I think it might actually be bad. The problem is that you still get 2-for-1'd whenever they kill your creature because you have to use a draw step to get Moldervine Cloak back. So instead of drawing more threats to put the cloak on, you have to spend a turn redrawing Cloak. You obviously wouldn't dredge Cloak if you didn't already have a body to put it on, but in the long run you'll be spending more turns drawing cloak instead of threats. If you're a token deck getting two creatures from every card, Moldervine Cloak will probably work for you. But Domain doesn't have that many bodies laying around (Squadron Hawks being an exception).
Another card (mentioned earlier, I think) that would fill a similar role is Opaline Bracers. It's better at fighting through instant speed removal and you get to keep drawing new threats as old ones get killed. It's not as resilient to artifact/enchantment hate but the decks that you want this against don't have much of that. UR usually runs Gorilla Shaman which is not great at killing Bracers. MBC doesn't even have any options.
So it's probably slightly worse against UR control but better against MBC and random UB control decks.
And I guess another thing about Moldervine Cloak is that it has some (small) synergy with Brainstorm.
Try pit keeper. It goes online with one squadron hawk resolution and comboes really well with kor skyfisher enabling you to bring back your whole army of rioters and nacatls. They also loop themselves for decks with infinite removals.
Hmmm. I'm not sure how I feel about Pit Keeper vs. Unearth, but keeping that creature count up could relevant.
I've also seen people testing with Putrid Leech, but I'm already uncomfortable with the mana cost on Qasali Pridemage, and the Leech doesn't chump out Myr Enforcer.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
I'd also like to report a few things about the way the sideboard has been changing. The Obsidian Acolyte plan against black is not one that I have been happy with, so I've been looking for alternatives. I decided to give the counter spell route a shot and discovered it works really well. Since the bodies are so horrible in combat on their own, black's value 2/2s are completely unimportant in the matchup. Removal can be an issue, but we generally have more must kill threats than they have unconditional kill spells. The only real issue with the matchup are the cards Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Corrupt, and Tendrils of Corruption. Counterspells do a really incredibly job of getting way ahead against these cards. They often have few more than one per game of any of these, so a counter spell can be a game winning play. Even if it isn't you re getting a huge tempo swing by dealing with such expensive spells so cheaply. I put counters in the deck and found that they not only make big difference in the Black matchup but also have a ton of utility against other decks.
The counters I have been testing are Mana Leak, Essence Scatter, and Arcane Denial. Mana Leak is the best against black, but the fact that it isn't a hard counter can be an issue against decks like Tron. Tron is something I have been having trouble with lately, and like MBC a single counter can completely wreck them. That's why I have also been testing Essence Scatter. Arcane Denial is a fridge possibility, but it has the ability to do the fill the same role as mana leak and essence scatter in one card, albeit at the price of value.
Circle of Protection: Red is another card that I have been reluctant to add to the deck because of how mana hungry it is, but lately I have given it a shot. As you know the Burn and Cyclops match ups are a big issue, and COP:Red is great in both, unlike lifegian spells or kill spells that are only good in one or the other. The card has still been drawn very little but it could make a big difference.
I'm picking this deck up in paper for a league at my LGS. Do you guys think Kird Ape has a place here? I'm playing this list http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/226100 with 4x Flame Slash in place of the Bolts and Staggershock. What would you recommend cutting for Kird Ape, my knee jerk reaction was to cut Qasali Pridemage and maybe a Flame Slash but I was looking for some more input, thanks.
Hi guys! I've been brewing with this deck for a while, and I decided to take on a different approach, more aggro-oriented and less midrangey. Let me know what you guys think! The sideboard is tweaked for my LGS, I tried to address the matchups which appeared to be the most problematic.
So I just discovered there are actually two Pauper sections on this forum (how crazy is that?) and I had posted a similar deck to his in the other one. I am reposting it here as this seems the best place for it.
Zoo in pauper takes a hit because it lacks a number of vital cards (everything from loam lion to jungle shrine to woolly thoctar.)
However one of the most efficient 1 mana greens of all time is still there, Wild Nacatl, and its counterpart Kird Ape. After much experimenting this is my attempt to make a deck that plays a little like a modern/casual zoo deck in pauper. Running the hands out it has a pretty good chance of getting a 3/3 on turn one by using a forest and lush growth on turn 1 and then dropping a lotus petal for Wild Nacatl. Lush Growth, our petals and Nylea's Presence allows us to use some really good spot removal out other colors as well as getting our Kird Ape onto the field.
I added Khalni Garden as an easy way to block an attack turn 1 against some of the rush decks (stompy and infect for instance.)
I'm picking this deck up in paper for a league at my LGS. Do you guys think Kird Ape has a place here? I'm playing this list http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/226100 with 4x Flame Slash in place of the Bolts and Staggershock. What would you recommend cutting for Kird Ape, my knee jerk reaction was to cut Qasali Pridemage and maybe a Flame Slash but I was looking for some more input, thanks.
Kird Ape isn't legal in MTGO Pauper, which is primarily what we discuss here.
Hi guys! I've been brewing with this deck for a while, and I decided to take on a different approach, more aggro-oriented and less midrangey. Let me know what you guys think! The sideboard is tweaked for my LGS, I tried to address the matchups which appeared to be the most problematic.
I would definitely not run 4 Rancor, it's way too easy to have a bunch of them stuck in your hand and with no dudes to hang them on. I'm also not excited by Basking Rootwalla over Matca Rioters. Leafcrown Dryad seems good in the 2-3 of range, though - Delver probably doesn't like fighting it too much.
So I just discovered there are actually two Pauper sections on this forum (how crazy is that?) and I had posted a similar deck to his in the other one. I am reposting it here as this seems the best place for it.
Zoo in pauper takes a hit because it lacks a number of vital cards (everything from loam lion to jungle shrine to woolly thoctar.)
However one of the most efficient 1 mana greens of all time is still there, Wild Nacatl, and its counterpart Kird Ape. After much experimenting this is my attempt to make a deck that plays a little like a modern/casual zoo deck in pauper. Running the hands out it has a pretty good chance of getting a 3/3 on turn one by using a forest and lush growth on turn 1 and then dropping a lotus petal for Wild Nacatl. Lush Growth, our petals and Nylea's Presence allows us to use some really good spot removal out other colors as well as getting our Kird Ape onto the field.
I added Khalni Garden as an easy way to block an attack turn 1 against some of the rush decks (stompy and infect for instance.)
The other Pauper subforum is in the casual section, and tends to cover paper Pauper as well, which tends to be "whatever cards we can justify as having been printed at common despite the weirdness of old rarities" instead of "all cards with black rarity symbols on MODO". Kird Ape and Swords to Plowshares aren't legal. As a matter of fact, Swords to Plowshares has NEVER been a common.
Overall, I feel like your card selection is all over the place, and like you'd be really vulnerable to a good black or red control player killing all your threats. Stompy solves this problem by ending the game as quickly as possible, but a multicolor deck like Zoo has to play a somewhat longer game, and needs to be careful with card advantage.
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
I would definitely not run 4 Rancor, it's way too easy to have a bunch of them stuck in your hand and with no dudes to hang them on. I'm also not excited by Basking Rootwalla over Matca Rioters. Leafcrown Dryad seems good in the 2-3 of range, though - Delver probably doesn't like fighting it too much.
My idea was that rancor made all my hands including nacatl or hawk brutal, and I always wanted to draw one. Certainly if they kill all your creatures it becomes much worse, so I upped the creature count to fight it. Also, rancor makes aura gnarlid an almost-unblockable 5/3 beast. This made Matca Rioters look almost silly so I ended up cutting it. However, bringing them down to 3 seems fine.
Basking Rootwalla was my mediocre nacatl 5-8, which I think this deck DEFINITELY needs in order to be somewhat competitive against the field. I don't think that this should be a midrange deck, because when we play that way we end up being crushed by other decks more focused on being midrange.
Also, rootwalla, dryad and hawk are some good mana sinks, and that deck kind of desperately needs that.
This is the deck I'm running. MB is tailored to fight meta, so is SB, so it doesn't matter. I'm currently looking towards freeing 2-3 slots for Brainstorm in order to dig up for the hate I need, or just rip those game-ending Tribal Flames from the top deck. Plated Geopede also seems like a really nasty card, but I don't know if I can fit it in. Also, if I can and the board is not too diluted after fitting Brainstorms, I'd like to fit 1-2 Staggershock.
For those who don't like Tribal Flames, the card is great. It single handedly takes out 1/4 (!) of their life total, which is more than enough to finish the job. Even if you don't have domain they aren't stranded in your hand as you will more often than not have 2-3 different lands to use Flames as spot removal if needed be. Remember that Flames and Rioters are the main reasons for playing Domain. If you cut them down, you might as well play Naya Zoo or something.
The whole reason I liked Domain Zoo over Landfall Zoo to begin with was the way it economizes card advantage, which is incredibly huge in the Pauper format. Virtually all matchups are hideous slogging grind-fights and incremental advantage leading to a kill.
Can someone convince me on running 4 copies of Tribal Flames?
Zephyr covered this angle pretty well. Being able to trade 1-for-1 with a resolved Fangren Marauder is a powerful and beautiful thing, and it can close out a close game harder than basically anything.
I cut the squadron/brainstorm stuff as I felt it was pretty weak.
I can see not liking the inconsistency of Brainstorm, but Squadron Hawk is a huge part of winning games against Monoblack, I'm not sure I'd like to fight them without it.
Crop rotation + plated geopede are really good together and I think this is the right deck for them. They are both solid cards on their own, (esp with all the fetch lands for geopede) but together they are great. It's not unreasonable to play a land, swing in for 3, and then play crop rotation during combat, find a fetchland, sac it, and get another +4/+4
Also, i think I prefer fireblast over tribal flames. It's easier to assemble 2x mountains than domain
I'm trying to be diplomatic about this, but you seem to really like throwing card advantage away. Do you play against monoblack much? Do they not just casually eat your lunch and send you packing? I can't imagine playing Crop Rotation and Fireblast with no Squadron Hawk and not just getting sent to Topdeck Prison with no parole. Plated Geopede is a reasonable inclusion, as his first-strike makes it easier to capitalize on his occasional feats of strength, but the others...
If you want to dump your hand as fast as possible for early aggro wins, Stompy is an excellent deck with a long pedigree. What you're chasing is like that, but with unreliable mana and a bunch of cards that do nothing without a very specific buddy to capitalize on them.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
I'm new to Pauper but loving this deck. I've been playing the 'standard list' as per this thread. Huge props to LordSaturn for the thread and the discussion.
I guess my main feedback is that while awesome, this deck is sometimes just too durdly. It's not uncommon for your opponent to be merrily casting board-affecting spells and beating you down while you're enchanting your lands, casting 1/1 fliers, and staring at a useless Unearth you don't have the mana to cycle away
Also, the deck has no way to get CA against opposing weenie swarms and small utility creatures (1/1 fliers etc.). Electrickery from the board is good and all, but small creatures are common enough that I would like to maindeck a card that hurts them.
With eight fetchlands, burn, and cheap creaures, casting a TC for cheap to refill your hand should be no problem. And it requires less setup than Brainstorm (no shuffle effect or extra cards in hand needed).
I appreciate that Squadron Hawk is a great card, but like others in this thread, find that it's just too slow against a lot of decks. The Guildmages are great against X/1s, have a second relevant ability too, and come out faster.
The extra Aura Gnarlid is to ensure that you'll always draw a fatty when you need one. I'm not sure 3x Matca Rioter 1x Aura Gnarlid is sufficient as your win conditions.
Anyway, that's where I'm at. Comments, suggestions, flames?
@curi0sity: If you want to ping creatures, why don't you just play a Sparksmith? It's a bit slower, but leaves mana open when you use it, and can eventually hit for more if you have multiples.
Blightning is an old favorite of mine, but I don't know if it'd be at home here. You kind of have to craft a game plan where you can trade their cards away to nothing, and this deck is more threats than answers.
The effect is good, but resolving a 2G aura on a non-hexproof creature is pretty difficult. The damage-to-cost ratio is also not especially great.
This is just kind of stretching it. There aren't any artifacts we can tutor which help our actual game plan at a reasonable cost - the nearest thing is Wayfarer's Bauble and that's just outlandishly overpriced. Bonesplitter is a good card, but our problem isn't that our creatures don't have enough power, it's that we need to push through damage through blockers/removal.
The latest winning builds have been running Doom Blade in the board. It's a good card for the same reasons as it's good for Affinity, in that it kills most stuff that won't just die chump-blocking. Broad, multidirectional sideboard cards are good in a healthy, diverse metagame.
I could see upping the land count, but I don't think this deck handles flood well at all. We haven't got any good outlets for excess mana, because good outlets for excess mana don't fit well with the very aggressive main gameplan.
Playing Brainstorm effectively is very skill-intensive, and it plays a bit differently in Pauper than elsewhere.
If you like all your cards, but need to put two back and shuffle them away, then congratulations, you're having a good day. Remember that they're just going back in your deck, and pick the two things you're least likely to want access to soon. It's generally okay to choke on land drops a little after the third or so, so maybe let that happen if it means keeping spells?
It's also occasionally correct to Brainstorm with no live shuffle. Sometimes this is because you're looking for a fetch/squawk, sometimes you just want to find a second or third Tribal Flames to slam the game shut out of nowhere. Your least-relevant cards are generally still pretty relevant when you re-draw them, especially if you haven't flooded your hand with lands.
MBC's removal swarm will hit you early, because they have to kill everything, because we can bulldoze/Rancor their chump-blockers. I haven't seen UR Midrange much, but I bet they do the same thing. The main way to beat this is to lean into it, feeding them must-answer threats until they're exhausted, then kill them before they recover.
What this means is that you're better off casting on-curve with an Unearth next turn than waiting two extra turns so you can cast with Altar's Reap/Perilous Research backup. This is also why you generally see Unearth over Undying Evil.
I also hate playing Young Wolf in this deck, because he just doesn't beat down very hard. Luckily, the necessity of this evil - the previously extreme dominance of MBC over the meta - has waned considerably.
Personally, I just run my three panoramas and four Wild Nacatl and four Abundant Growth, and call it good - I'm more concerned with having a convincing second and third turn than a first. If I was going to pick up one of these, though, it'd be the Skarrgan Pit-Skulk - his Aura Gnarlid evasion is nontrivial.
It's been discussed a lot, perhaps not in this thread. Duress is a solid play in the "exhaust their removal/counterspells" game-plan, especially any time we're anticipating Pauper Cryptic Command; the main issue is trying to cast it ahead of your creatures, which involves getting B up quickly. I haven't felt the need to play it, but it's a reasonable choice.
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Overall, I think we're well within this deck's "sweet spot" (note the recent results, and thanks to DimeCollector/Jason Moore for mentioning this deck in a StarCityGames article) - we just have a lot of room for personalized build and variations. I would be suspicious of shifting the focus of the deck too much.
That is true. I'll try a few copies in the board for now, but they'll probably end up as Duresses or something else if I don't like them in testing.
That's true, but you want to board it in for long, grindy matchups where the CA is more important than the short-term damage. It does stretch their removal a lot further, and if they do ever tap out, resolving this is more permanent than say a Matca Rioters, as they now have to kill your best guy twice. I've played with the card several times now and each time it's been left unchecked it's singlehandedly won me the game, so they're staying for now. I'm keeping an open mind though, there may be more effective ways to win grindy games that are less vulnerable, but I think this is quite high-impact for the slots.
EDIT: Rereading this, I didn't make my main point clear enough. What I basically mean is it forces them to deal with a creature they wouldn't have otherwise been forced to deal with. A 2-power flyer vs MBC is not super threatening, but a 3/4 flying Ninja of the Deep Hours certainly is. Even if you get 2-for-1ed, it's still one less removal spell for your Matca Rioters, and many MBC builds don't run a great deal of spot removal, so it stretches their resources quite thin.
Fair enough. Just some tech I noticed someone running.
Do you think Doom Blade is a straight upgrade to Journey here, or should we run a split? Journey does have some benefits in being able to exile things and pumping our Gnarlid, although it's sorcery speed (which is certainly much worse vs Atog and Delver).
Hmm. It's probably my limited experience with the deck, so I'll play another 20 matches or so and then see how I feel about the land count and the deck's ability to cope with flood.
Fair enough. As above, I'll keep playing with it for a while and then see how it's performing for me after a lot more matches. I've never really played with Brainstorm in any format, so I'm probably grossly undervaluing it.
EDIT: When, if ever, is it correct to board out Brainstorm? I've been taking it out where I don't have anything else to cut and I need to bring in utility spells without diluting my creature base. My rule of thumb is usually "would I rather draw a Brainstorm or a [card]?", but since I haven't found Brainstorm all that great, I've been bringing them out rather often. I still think it's probably correct to bring them out against much faster decks, where you're not really going to have the time to cast it.
That's true.
Although now that you mention it, Undying Evil does seem very good against them as well, as any time after turn 3 you're usually going to have enough mana to back it up. I might test it against MBC, as unlike say Spider Umbra it beats Edicts, and you can't really get 2-for-1'ed in response.
Fair enough. Again, just an idea; this deck is at its best focusing on the midgame anyway.
The more I think about it, the more I like Duress. The information is invaluable, as it lets you bait counters more effectively and craft a gameplan around sticking a big threat. It's also our only real out to Exclude short of playing Dispel (or, I suppose, Mana Leak, although that seems pretty marginal vs a blue deck). And playing against a counterspell deck, you often want B up fairly quickly anyway, for Unearth, and I haven't had any trouble (so far - touch wood) with getting the colours I need in a timely fashion.
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To be honest I don't think Snake Umbra belongs in the maindeck. It's only really good in slow, grindy matchups, where the extra CA is super relevant. The +1/+1 is just too small for its cost to be playable game 1, IMO, and certainly not with 3 copies. There are too many matchups where it's terrible. If I were going to play an Umbra effect main, I'd go with either Spider Umbra, as it's cheap and on-colour, with a non-trivial effect against Delver and the like, or Hyena Umbra, as it makes your guy near-unkillable against both removal AND creature decks.
I agree with Lightning Bolt; I haven't yet tested Staggershock but I really like its cost-efficiency and, echoing previous opinions in the thread, I'd rather board in a more specific and high-impact hate card (such as Electrickery).
Speaking of which, Stealthsuit is another one on my list to test. Has anyone tried it vs MBC? If it's not effective against both, I'd probably play something more broad that's applicable against both it and UR Control (like Duress).
What are you boarding Prismatic Strands against? The front side seems extremely expensive in a deck this tight on mana, although the alternate cost is obviously great. I used to play with this in GW Slivers back in the day, and was almost always unimpressed (though it was a necessary evil against Grapeshot storm).
Domain Zoo
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Retired decks:
URWBGrixis Teachings (pauper) BWRU
URWB Tainted Vengeance (SOM-INN standard) BWRU
UBR Grixis Vengeance (SOM-INN Standard) RBU
(click for decklist)
Ego Quotes:
Aura Gnarlid only likes auras. Now, you COULD run Temporal Isolation, but I strongly favor the ability to make a creature disappear from the battlefield completely AND at instant speed - it buys us a little game against Atog.
Remember that drawing a Brainstorm actually makes it easier to subsequently draw your sideboard - boarding out dig spells is a bad idea, generally.
If you really don't like it, you could be the first to test Worldly Counsel - I've had it shortlisted for a while but haven't played much.
Don't forget Pyroblast, which is a must-board against the UR builds.
The Mana Leak gets my approval because besides occasionally hammering a full-price Mulldrifter or an Exclude, it can also crumple an awkward Fling or a Corrupt/Tendrils of Corruption/Gray Merchant of Asphodel.
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Matca Rioters
1 Aura Gnarlid
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Doom Blade
4 Tribal Flames
2 Brainstorm
2 Unearth
2 Rancor
4 Nylea's Presence
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
8 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Hydroblast
2 Pyroblast
2 Electrickery
2 Duress
1 Doom Blade
2 Snake Umbra
2 Armadillo Cloak
To be honest, the card I feel is the weakest link in the maindeck from my testing is Qasali Pridemage (followed by Brainstorm). The Pridemage is always okay, but never stellar. The situations where you really need it as a Naturalise game 1 are few and far between, and I often find that even when there's a target, I have to question myself about losing a guy on board to do it. The Exalted does help you push through a stalled board as a mini-rancor, which is great, as well as allowing quite aggressive openings, but the deck in general isn't geared to take advantage of it very well. It's a reasonable topdeck, but it's still the smallest guy in the deck. Next to cards like Nacatl, Skyfisher and Rioters, a 2/2 just doesn't stack up.
My dissatisfaction with Brainstorm is something I have mentioned above. There's nothing wrong with them, but I feel I'd rather something that gives me a little more gas in the lategame than a cantrip. I'm going to replace them with Compulsive Research for now, but I may swap back if I find the 3-cost prohibitive.
Cutting the two Pridemages in the main frees up two slots: one for a second Aura Gnarlid, and the 21st land. The thing that pushes this deck over the top is usually its big hitters, and since sticking one usually wins the game, adding a 5th one makes sense. The Gnarlid's evasion is always excellent, even if it's sometimes a little smaller than Rioters. The 21st land might be a little less self-explanatory, but I've just added another three 3-drops, as well as boosted the deck's ability to deal with flood somewhat in playing Compulsive Research and an extra curve-topper. My mantra has always been "when in doubt, play more lands," so I'm going to test the 21st.
The last thing I'd like to test is a single Journey to Nowhere over a Lightning Bolt. This is one change I'm not particularly sure about; I would normally choose to play a Doom Blade, but I don't want two dead cards in the main against MBC. I may swap this back though, as Lightning Bolt is very cost-efficient, and the instant speed is always great, as is the reach it provides. We'll have to see.
I also rejigged my sideboard slightly. Snake Umbra wasn't performing as well as I'd hoped, less because of the vulnerability to 2-for-1s, but because once they kill off the Umbra the creature is half the threat it used to be. If I wanted the shield effect, I'd probably play Undying Evil as my first choice, or Hyena Umbra if the meta got a little more weenie-aggro focused. Duress has been invaluable; the information alone has won me several games by letting me easily outmanoeuvre my opponent's counters/removal. Electrickery is, I feel, a necessary evil against decks like Elves, as well as being really good against Delver. I've gone down to 1 Hydroblast as its two functions are mirrored by either Duress or Doom Blade anyway.
With those changes, here's how it looks:
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Matca Rioters
2 Aura Gnarlid
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Doom Blade
4 Tribal Flames
2 Unearth
2 Rancor
2 Compulsive Research
4 Nylea's Presence
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
9 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Electrickery
3 Duress
2 Pyroblast
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Doom Blade
2 Armadillo Cloak
1 Hydroblast
Oops! I should learn to read cards.
I agree, Temporal Isolation isn't what we want to be doing. Having played a number of matches with Doom Blade now, all I can say is I wish I drew it more often. I'll be upping the count in the 75 from 2 to 3 for sure.
After playing with it a fair bit more, it's performing a heck of a lot better than it was in the first few matches I played. I think I just got on the unlucky end of variance at the start with this card. That said, I'm still thinking of replacing it with something that actually gains you CA. Worldy Counsel would definitely not be my pick; if anything I'd rather play Impulse simply because it's a reliable 4. But I was actually thinking more along the lines of Compulsive Research as a late-game refill card. I played two matches in the practice room with it replacing Brainstorm, and was impressed with the result. It's getting the nod from me for now, and I'll let you guys know how it goes in more serious matches.
I'm ahead of you, I'm running 2 in the board (was 3, but I dropped one when I added Duress).
Yeah, I played with them in the board when I first put the deck together, and to be honest I'm missing them against control. I'm going to put them back in if I can find room, although my board is getting pretty crowded.
Domain Zoo
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired decks:
URWBGrixis Teachings (pauper) BWRU
URWB Tainted Vengeance (SOM-INN standard) BWRU
UBR Grixis Vengeance (SOM-INN Standard) RBU
(click for decklist)
Ego Quotes:
Cutting the pridemages is something that I have been considering, mostly due to the fact that it is the only 2 toughness threat in the main (squak not included) giving U/R a decent target for firebolt. That said, the card is incredibly solid and is almost never bad. I also like diversifying the threats in the main to give unearth extra options and utility. I'm a bit torn, but I think going without them could be worth a shot. It's also possible that another mid-game threat could do a better job.
Brainstorm has been on the chopping block for a lot of people, and I can understand why. It has a penchant for being slow or uncastable. But I think that, as an effect, brainstorm is warranted by the deck. Because we rely so much on lands you really cannot afford to keep hands that are land-light, so as the game progresses you are very likely to draw more lands than you would ever need for your curve. Brainstorm is a nice way to mitigate this without giving up a ton. It can be cast with a spare mana in the early game to let you set up your hand, or it can be cast in the late game to shuffle away unneeded lands. While cutting it might make things a little smoother, as the blue mana can be tough to make consistently as can setting up a fetch, it really hurts your game against flood. I think some way to combat flood is needed in the deck. Compulsive research is an interesting idea, but it seems to me that it would mostly be significantly worse than brainstorm. In the early game compulsive is stone uncastable, while if the mana works out brainstorm can significantly improve the quality of your hand without much effort. In the late game you will have plenty of lands and shuffle effects to make brainstorm essentially a draw 3, so the ability for compulsive to let you save an extra card doesn't seem too valuable. It's worth a shot, though. If I had time I would test a list with 1 compulsive and 1 brainstorm.
Duress is a card that I have tried in my board. It's been solid, but I haven't been super impressed. With all the options available for the deck I think that we can do better. I have found that most of the time I draw it I would rather have drawn an unearth.
Unearth seems great in the meta. It's fantastic against delver. It's fantastic against U/R. It's fantastic against Black. Because of this I have added a third to the main, and I have been pretty happy so far. 3 is pretty clunky for a card that is so conditional, but the effect is so powerful and the option to cycle is so reasonable that it might be worth it.
Brainstorming for ideas against the U/R lategame I have come up with some potentially sweet tech. Moldervine Cloak! Here's why:
1. All their removal is sorcery, so they can't kill your dude in response. This protects you from blowouts.
2. All their removal is damage based, so to kill a cloaked creature they have to use at least 2 removal spells, which is really good for you.
3. It can't be excluded, which is a card that is really effective in the matchup. This means the only counter that can actually stop it is actual counterspell
4. It can dredge back. So even if they do deal with it by using multiple removal spells or by countering, you can simply dredge it back next turn. They have no graveyard interaction whatsoever, so if you draw even one cloak you will have it for the rest of the game. This means that the only method they have of stopping it is to kill every one of your creatures, which is really difficult.
It also could be a powerful way of having a quick and resilient clock against black, though it is obviously less good because of instant speed removal and destroy-creature effects. It could also have a place in the maindeck as a way to mitigate flood. Test it out, but be sure to report how it does, since I am eager to see.
Also worthy of note, Dan from MTGOstrat has said that he fell in love with the deck and has been playing it exclusively. I would like to what he has to say about it, and maybe see if he has any changes to report or new tech to try.
I'm not sure it would be good against MBC, though. In fact, I think it might actually be bad. The problem is that you still get 2-for-1'd whenever they kill your creature because you have to use a draw step to get Moldervine Cloak back. So instead of drawing more threats to put the cloak on, you have to spend a turn redrawing Cloak. You obviously wouldn't dredge Cloak if you didn't already have a body to put it on, but in the long run you'll be spending more turns drawing cloak instead of threats. If you're a token deck getting two creatures from every card, Moldervine Cloak will probably work for you. But Domain doesn't have that many bodies laying around (Squadron Hawks being an exception).
Another card (mentioned earlier, I think) that would fill a similar role is Opaline Bracers. It's better at fighting through instant speed removal and you get to keep drawing new threats as old ones get killed. It's not as resilient to artifact/enchantment hate but the decks that you want this against don't have much of that. UR usually runs Gorilla Shaman which is not great at killing Bracers. MBC doesn't even have any options.
So it's probably slightly worse against UR control but better against MBC and random UB control decks.
And I guess another thing about Moldervine Cloak is that it has some (small) synergy with Brainstorm.
I've also seen people testing with Putrid Leech, but I'm already uncomfortable with the mana cost on Qasali Pridemage, and the Leech doesn't chump out Myr Enforcer.
http://www.castingcommons.com/new-brews-domain-zoo/
I'd also like to report a few things about the way the sideboard has been changing. The Obsidian Acolyte plan against black is not one that I have been happy with, so I've been looking for alternatives. I decided to give the counter spell route a shot and discovered it works really well. Since the bodies are so horrible in combat on their own, black's value 2/2s are completely unimportant in the matchup. Removal can be an issue, but we generally have more must kill threats than they have unconditional kill spells. The only real issue with the matchup are the cards Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Corrupt, and Tendrils of Corruption. Counterspells do a really incredibly job of getting way ahead against these cards. They often have few more than one per game of any of these, so a counter spell can be a game winning play. Even if it isn't you re getting a huge tempo swing by dealing with such expensive spells so cheaply. I put counters in the deck and found that they not only make big difference in the Black matchup but also have a ton of utility against other decks.
The counters I have been testing are Mana Leak, Essence Scatter, and Arcane Denial. Mana Leak is the best against black, but the fact that it isn't a hard counter can be an issue against decks like Tron. Tron is something I have been having trouble with lately, and like MBC a single counter can completely wreck them. That's why I have also been testing Essence Scatter. Arcane Denial is a fridge possibility, but it has the ability to do the fill the same role as mana leak and essence scatter in one card, albeit at the price of value.
Circle of Protection: Red is another card that I have been reluctant to add to the deck because of how mana hungry it is, but lately I have given it a shot. As you know the Burn and Cyclops match ups are a big issue, and COP:Red is great in both, unlike lifegian spells or kill spells that are only good in one or the other. The card has still been drawn very little but it could make a big difference.
4 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Evolving Wilds
10 Forest
3 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Island
Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Squadron Hawk
3 Aura Gnarlid
3 Leafcrown Dryad
4 Nylea's Presence
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
4 Rancor
4 Standard Bearer
2 Hallow
3 Pyroblast
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Lone Missionary
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/17954
UB Wight Phantasm
RB Burn
UR Faerie Rites of Initiation
Legacy:
R Burn
CG-Post
Kird Ape isn't legal in MTGO Pauper, which is primarily what we discuss here.
I would definitely not run 4 Rancor, it's way too easy to have a bunch of them stuck in your hand and with no dudes to hang them on. I'm also not excited by Basking Rootwalla over Matca Rioters. Leafcrown Dryad seems good in the 2-3 of range, though - Delver probably doesn't like fighting it too much.
Sorted out your decklist a bit for easy reading.
The other Pauper subforum is in the casual section, and tends to cover paper Pauper as well, which tends to be "whatever cards we can justify as having been printed at common despite the weirdness of old rarities" instead of "all cards with black rarity symbols on MODO". Kird Ape and Swords to Plowshares aren't legal. As a matter of fact, Swords to Plowshares has NEVER been a common.
Overall, I feel like your card selection is all over the place, and like you'd be really vulnerable to a good black or red control player killing all your threats. Stompy solves this problem by ending the game as quickly as possible, but a multicolor deck like Zoo has to play a somewhat longer game, and needs to be careful with card advantage.
My idea was that rancor made all my hands including nacatl or hawk brutal, and I always wanted to draw one. Certainly if they kill all your creatures it becomes much worse, so I upped the creature count to fight it. Also, rancor makes aura gnarlid an almost-unblockable 5/3 beast. This made Matca Rioters look almost silly so I ended up cutting it. However, bringing them down to 3 seems fine.
Basking Rootwalla was my mediocre nacatl 5-8, which I think this deck DEFINITELY needs in order to be somewhat competitive against the field. I don't think that this should be a midrange deck, because when we play that way we end up being crushed by other decks more focused on being midrange.
Also, rootwalla, dryad and hawk are some good mana sinks, and that deck kind of desperately needs that.
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/17954
Can someone convince me on running 4 copies of Tribal Flames?
It tends to be a worse lightning bolt until you hit a presence or the match is drawn out to where you can legitimately get domain.
I have been running 2 copies of flames and 3 of matca rioters. Yet every deck I see runs 4 flames.
Additionally, has anyone discovered any new tech with the deck? New sideboard stuff?
2 Aura Gnarlid
4 Kor Skyfisher
3 Matca Rioters
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Lone Missionary
2 Pit Keeper
4 Abundant Growth
4 Nylea's Presence
2 Rancor
Instants (4)
4 Lightning Bolt
Sorceries (6)
4 Tribal Flames
2 Unearth
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Evolving Wilds
8 Forest
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
This is the deck I'm running. MB is tailored to fight meta, so is SB, so it doesn't matter. I'm currently looking towards freeing 2-3 slots for Brainstorm in order to dig up for the hate I need, or just rip those game-ending Tribal Flames from the top deck. Plated Geopede also seems like a really nasty card, but I don't know if I can fit it in. Also, if I can and the board is not too diluted after fitting Brainstorms, I'd like to fit 1-2 Staggershock.
For those who don't like Tribal Flames, the card is great. It single handedly takes out 1/4 (!) of their life total, which is more than enough to finish the job. Even if you don't have domain they aren't stranded in your hand as you will more often than not have 2-3 different lands to use Flames as spot removal if needed be. Remember that Flames and Rioters are the main reasons for playing Domain. If you cut them down, you might as well play Naya Zoo or something.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Plated Geopede and Crop Rotation belong more properly to Landfall Zoo, which has been lurking around on the fringe of competitive play since Alara block or so. Landfall Zoo curves a lot lower (Wild Nacatl, Steppe Lynx, Plated Geopede) and throws away a lot more cards to get the damage rolling (Lush Growth, Crop Rotation).
The whole reason I liked Domain Zoo over Landfall Zoo to begin with was the way it economizes card advantage, which is incredibly huge in the Pauper format. Virtually all matchups are hideous slogging grind-fights and incremental advantage leading to a kill.
So, with all that on the table:
Zephyr covered this angle pretty well. Being able to trade 1-for-1 with a resolved Fangren Marauder is a powerful and beautiful thing, and it can close out a close game harder than basically anything.
I'm not sold on Temporal Isolation, but Heliod's Pilgrim seems reasonable and Armadillo Cloak has always been a strong option in the right context.
I can see not liking the inconsistency of Brainstorm, but Squadron Hawk is a huge part of winning games against Monoblack, I'm not sure I'd like to fight them without it.
I'm trying to be diplomatic about this, but you seem to really like throwing card advantage away. Do you play against monoblack much? Do they not just casually eat your lunch and send you packing? I can't imagine playing Crop Rotation and Fireblast with no Squadron Hawk and not just getting sent to Topdeck Prison with no parole. Plated Geopede is a reasonable inclusion, as his first-strike makes it easier to capitalize on his occasional feats of strength, but the others...
If you want to dump your hand as fast as possible for early aggro wins, Stompy is an excellent deck with a long pedigree. What you're chasing is like that, but with unreliable mana and a bunch of cards that do nothing without a very specific buddy to capitalize on them.
I'm new to Pauper but loving this deck. I've been playing the 'standard list' as per this thread. Huge props to LordSaturn for the thread and the discussion.
I guess my main feedback is that while awesome, this deck is sometimes just too durdly. It's not uncommon for your opponent to be merrily casting board-affecting spells and beating you down while you're enchanting your lands, casting 1/1 fliers, and staring at a useless Unearth you don't have the mana to cycle away
Also, the deck has no way to get CA against opposing weenie swarms and small utility creatures (1/1 fliers etc.). Electrickery from the board is good and all, but small creatures are common enough that I would like to maindeck a card that hurts them.
So, I've made the following changes:
-2 Brainstorm
+2 Treasure Cruise
With eight fetchlands, burn, and cheap creaures, casting a TC for cheap to refill your hand should be no problem. And it requires less setup than Brainstorm (no shuffle effect or extra cards in hand needed).
-2 Unearth
+2 ?
I like Unearth, but it can clog your hand early, and it doesn't combo with Treasure Cruise. Not 100% sure what to replace it with though.
-4 Squadron Hawk
+3 Granger Guildmage
+1 Aura Gnarlid
I appreciate that Squadron Hawk is a great card, but like others in this thread, find that it's just too slow against a lot of decks. The Guildmages are great against X/1s, have a second relevant ability too, and come out faster.
The extra Aura Gnarlid is to ensure that you'll always draw a fatty when you need one. I'm not sure 3x Matca Rioter 1x Aura Gnarlid is sufficient as your win conditions.
Anyway, that's where I'm at. Comments, suggestions, flames?
I still wouldn't run it MB, though.
4 Kor Skyfisher
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Aura Gnarlid
2 Matca Rioters
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tribal Flames
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Abundant Growth
4 Nylea's Presence
2 Unearth
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Obsidian Acolyte
2 Pyroblast
2 Skyshroud Archer
2 Standard Bearer
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Armadillo Cloak
1 Electrickery
1 Ray of Revelation
No Rancor in exchange of extra brainstorms seems a fair concession to a removal heavy meta.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed