forest elf go, mountain burn invigorate in response, then next turn swing for lethal is not a god hand. It happens very consistently.
No, it doesn't. Been playing this deck for a long while now and I can say with certainty, it doesn't happen consistently. It's just easier to remember the times you lose like that.
I don't buy your definition, Infect is a 'fair deck' in that they win by turning their creatures sideways, it's just that all of their creatures happen to have double strike. Cystbearer certainly does not belong in any deck seeking to win by turn 3. They just sacrifice late game reach (Lighting Bolt) for more protection and a faster clock.
"He just had the nuts draw" and "Won't happen every game" isn't good enough, those two games were so infuriating I'm finished with pauper.
I'm sorry if that's not enough for you, but that's the plain and simple truth. I've never seen hands as crazy as the ones you described, and I can confidently say that Infect Stompy almost never wins that quickly or efficiently.
If it's that much of a problem, then modify your deck and/or sideboard accordingly. Run more creatures that are still conducive to your game plan, and pray they don't draw any of their Hornet Stings or Apostle's Blessings if they choose to side them in.
If it still doesn't work out, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you should try a different deck for a while.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Really you haven't? I play pauper infect because it's an amazing deck for doublequeing. Yeah sometimes you get the turn 2 kill hands and many other times you don't. I'd say the turn 2 kill rate is maybe 20%. But you can definittly power through even some of the best removal spells. But you definitely need to know when to just hold on playing the 1st donk.
Why do I bring this up? Because infect isn't that bad in Pauper. I mean, most Pauper decks end up being aggro anyway. And your opponent has to get one in his first seven cards to hurt you.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The complaining in this thread is so utterly ridiculous. everyone remembers their infuriating turn 2 losses but doesn't remember any games that play out normally? how about a quick calculation of the chance of having a glistener elf in a persons opening hand, which is the card you absolutely have to have to have a turn 2 kill: 49.183%. now take the chances that you have enough pump to kill on turn two. I'm not going to bother since finding the exact amount since it varies between lists but lets say its around 50%. thats extremely high (its probably closer to 30%) since in most cases you need combinations of 3 and atleast one needs to be free but for arguments sack lets pick a high number. so now you're down to about 25%. now factor in lands. Then haveing the right about of lands to cast your spells but also still having enough pump. the add into that the fact that if your opponent runs out a one drop then you need to have another of a specific pump spell to get through that. then factor in the possibly that your opponent actually has relevant removal (*gasp*)... the percentage of turn 2 kills is so tiny. Likely around the same as storm.
If you feel still feel so frustrated about infect after realizing they don't have as many turn 2 kills as you think, there are a few options:
1) change your deck. most people realize that when you're constantly losing to a deck, you should probably add answers to it. thats what happens when something dominates a meta or you just constantly lose to it and feel like its dominating.
2)play a different format. there are plenty of other formats and in pretty much all of them, infect barely exists as a deck.
--
Also unrelated to the infect problem, but in that 3rd post, why exactly was terramorphic expanse in a burn deck?
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The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I think storm combo is a more degenerate deck than Infect. You can actually throw out a blocker and slow down infect, even for a turn and cause them to waste a pump spell.
With storm, you need a way to stop 10+ tokens, and oftentimes at instant speed due to bushwhacker killing you that turn. It's the most uninteractive deck in the format.
Get rid of Empty the Warrens, and it will be easier to hate out the other decks without auto-losing to storm.
It's a combo deck, and there are plenty of answers for it. Just because your deck has a bad matchup or you come unprepared to deal with it doesn't mean that the deck is too degenerate, or even a tier 1 deck in the format.
It's a combo deck, and there are plenty of answers for it. Just because your deck has a bad matchup or you come unprepared to deal with it doesn't mean that the deck is too degenerate, or even a tier 1 deck in the format.
I suppose. But due to how radically different the threat is in the storm deck, it could be seen as format warping. Think of how narrow the answers are that you need to defeat the storm combo. Mass removal spells like Echoing Decay are just not very good against other decks.
I suppose it isn't nearly as bad as storm combo is legacy or even modern though, and it isn't as bad as when familiar storm was floating around.
I suppose. But due to how radically different the threat is in the storm deck, it could be seen as format warping. Think of how narrow the answers are that you need to defeat the storm combo. Mass removal spells like Echoing Decay are just not very good against other decks.
I suppose it isn't nearly as bad as storm combo is legacy or even modern though, and it isn't as bad as when familiar storm was floating around.
Echoing Decay takes out everything in WW, Rats and everything bar spire golem in delver and has 2 for 1 potential. It's hardly a leyline of the void level of narrow hate card.
The most fun card to play against empty the warrens is suture priest
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There's a reason that Infect doesn't dominate the meta: it's too inconsistent. It also has extremely bad matchups.
I agree it's probably a bad influence, and Magic would be better without it. Nevertheless, it exists, and it prevents some midrangey decks from getting out of hand.
I am of the opinion Invigorate should probably eat a ban, but that's probably never going to happen. It's easily as broken as the other two banned cards. That said, the deck it enables is too luck-dependent for it to ever make enough noise.
I'm just curious as to why any of those cards would come even close to a ban? none of them dominate the metagame at all...
cards don't get banned because they are powerful. they get banned because they warp the format. Card bans (with the exception of modern because it was a completely new format with bad memories of extended) are used very sparingly. Delver/gesit/snapcaster and much more dominant in standard and still wasn't banned. If nothing is wrong with a format it doesn't need to be fixed it. if you look at the recent daily results you can easily see the format is pretty healthy.
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Infect is Stompy on steroids IMO. In other words, a sucking archetype greatly improved.
It's fragile enough to be eventually controlled and any misplay can be fatal.
For me it's great. Reminds me the good times Señor Stompy ruled Extended (yeah).
I was about to say "If you don't like it, leave", but you seem to have reached that conclusion already.
So what is the point of this thread?
No, it doesn't. Been playing this deck for a long while now and I can say with certainty, it doesn't happen consistently. It's just easier to remember the times you lose like that.
I don't buy your definition, Infect is a 'fair deck' in that they win by turning their creatures sideways, it's just that all of their creatures happen to have double strike. Cystbearer certainly does not belong in any deck seeking to win by turn 3. They just sacrifice late game reach (Lighting Bolt) for more protection and a faster clock.
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I'm sorry if that's not enough for you, but that's the plain and simple truth. I've never seen hands as crazy as the ones you described, and I can confidently say that Infect Stompy almost never wins that quickly or efficiently.
If it's that much of a problem, then modify your deck and/or sideboard accordingly. Run more creatures that are still conducive to your game plan, and pray they don't draw any of their Hornet Stings or Apostle's Blessings if they choose to side them in.
If it still doesn't work out, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you should try a different deck for a while.
Doom Blade is common.
Go for the Throat is common.
Terror is common.
Gut Shot is common. (A well-timed one can really screw your opponent over.)
Pacifism is, surprise surprise, common.
Guard Duty is common.
Why do I bring this up? Because infect isn't that bad in Pauper. I mean, most Pauper decks end up being aggro anyway. And your opponent has to get one in his first seven cards to hurt you.
On phasing:
forge devil (forces them to spend a spell to save it, then leaves you a blocker.
spell pierce (read U: counter target pump spell)
The complaining in this thread is so utterly ridiculous. everyone remembers their infuriating turn 2 losses but doesn't remember any games that play out normally? how about a quick calculation of the chance of having a glistener elf in a persons opening hand, which is the card you absolutely have to have to have a turn 2 kill: 49.183%. now take the chances that you have enough pump to kill on turn two. I'm not going to bother since finding the exact amount since it varies between lists but lets say its around 50%. thats extremely high (its probably closer to 30%) since in most cases you need combinations of 3 and atleast one needs to be free but for arguments sack lets pick a high number. so now you're down to about 25%. now factor in lands. Then haveing the right about of lands to cast your spells but also still having enough pump. the add into that the fact that if your opponent runs out a one drop then you need to have another of a specific pump spell to get through that. then factor in the possibly that your opponent actually has relevant removal (*gasp*)... the percentage of turn 2 kills is so tiny. Likely around the same as storm.
If you feel still feel so frustrated about infect after realizing they don't have as many turn 2 kills as you think, there are a few options:
1) change your deck. most people realize that when you're constantly losing to a deck, you should probably add answers to it. thats what happens when something dominates a meta or you just constantly lose to it and feel like its dominating.
2)play a different format. there are plenty of other formats and in pretty much all of them, infect barely exists as a deck.
--
Also unrelated to the infect problem, but in that 3rd post, why exactly was terramorphic expanse in a burn deck?
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I want you to think long and hard about what you just said...
With storm, you need a way to stop 10+ tokens, and oftentimes at instant speed due to bushwhacker killing you that turn. It's the most uninteractive deck in the format.
Get rid of Empty the Warrens, and it will be easier to hate out the other decks without auto-losing to storm.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
I suppose. But due to how radically different the threat is in the storm deck, it could be seen as format warping. Think of how narrow the answers are that you need to defeat the storm combo. Mass removal spells like Echoing Decay are just not very good against other decks.
I suppose it isn't nearly as bad as storm combo is legacy or even modern though, and it isn't as bad as when familiar storm was floating around.
Echoing Decay takes out everything in WW, Rats and everything bar spire golem in delver and has 2 for 1 potential. It's hardly a leyline of the void level of narrow hate card.
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I agree it's probably a bad influence, and Magic would be better without it. Nevertheless, it exists, and it prevents some midrangey decks from getting out of hand.
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
cards don't get banned because they are powerful. they get banned because they warp the format. Card bans (with the exception of modern because it was a completely new format with bad memories of extended) are used very sparingly. Delver/gesit/snapcaster and much more dominant in standard and still wasn't banned. If nothing is wrong with a format it doesn't need to be fixed it. if you look at the recent daily results you can easily see the format is pretty healthy.
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Decks I play and stuff.
Legacy Burn
Modern Mono U Tron
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G
It's fragile enough to be eventually controlled and any misplay can be fatal.
For me it's great. Reminds me the good times Señor Stompy ruled Extended (yeah).
Commander: Child of Alara BURGW, Adeliz, the Cinder Wind UR
Tiny Leaders: Gwafa, Hazid Profiteer UW
Regular Pauper: Stompy G, Mono-G Tron G, Infect G