If you were to ban a card in that deck, it would probably be Delver of Secrets. The deck was good before Delver was printed, but now it can actually play the aggro game.
Other than that, the only cards I would consider for banning in pauper are Cloudpost and Empty the Warrens.
Honestly, I think that Delver is a card that makes the game better, whereas Cloud of Faeries and Gush make it worse. On power level alone Delver probably deserves banning more.
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You know that is a very interesting question because I don't think there is a single card that would slow down the deck. I think the deck could survive beyond losing any of those cards alone and not even sure dropping two of those would slow it. There are a lot of variations when it comes to the count package and even the creature base
Storm is another one I don't know where I'd start.. the format has to have storm because if you stop storm you lose the combo element... maybe the trick there is getting rid of grapeshot and leaving warrens since warrens is easier to deal with after sideboarding and grapeshot is very hard
Honestly, I think that Delver is a card that makes the game better, whereas Cloud of Faeries and Gush make it worse. On power level alone Delver probably deserves banning more.
How does delver make the game better? It allows for mono blue aggro decks. Mono u control is ok because blue has always been a control color. But with delver you actually make the deck very aggresive. It also is a card that is somewhat luck based.
Blue being able to do what green does, but better, is a dangerous thing to be had
How does delver make the game better? It allows for mono blue aggro decks. Mono u control is ok because blue has always been a control color. But with delver you actually make the deck very aggresive. It also is a card that is somewhat luck based.
Blue being able to do what green does, but better, is a dangerous thing to be had
Breaking the colour pie, being aggressive and being slightly luck based are not legitimate reasons to ban a card.
Delver doesn't break the color pie. If any color gets access to a 3/2 flyer for 1, it's blue. Blue gets cheap and efficient flyers. Delver's mechanic makes it want to play along with a bunch of instants and sorceries, which is perfectly blue. Every color gets access to undercosted, powerful creatures, even if blue and white are fifth and fourth in that respectively. Green gets oversized guys as a matter of fact, red gets aggressively costed small guys, black gets overpowered creatures at a cost (Carnophage), and white and blue get overpowered guys that demand you do white or blue things, like Serra Ascendant and Delver. A 3/2 flyer for 1 isn't appropriate for green in the least; green gets 2/2 vanilla guys for 1, but with little or no drawback (Whereas Delver's drawback is significant).
Delver making blue aggro viable is a good thing. Every color should have a viable aggro deck; blue aggro is an important intermediary step on the speed range of decks and it makes the metagame more open.
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Am I one of the few people that likes the meta at the moment? I have a few points, but not many I guess.
-Banning Grapeshot would kill storm. There is so much hate for Warrens that without the threat of a grapeshot, people could just sit on hate and Storm would be helpless. Storm has had increasing numbers lately, but it is due to a few strong Storm players being dedicated right now and a lot of people with new toy syndrome that could not play the deck before due to Invasion Land price and now are using Masques lands. These numbers get even better with a few of the players that are nightmares to play against while playing storm sitting out right now. (For example, I have not seen AndreyS in many queues, and he is probably the top antistorm player IMO.)
-Delver Blue is the best deck in the format. I don't think it is banworthy good, but it is very good regardless. However, If anything were to be banned, I would think Gush would be the best choice. It gives the deck so much reach to find more counters. I wouldn't want Delver banned due to it totally changing the archetype which I don't think is broken. I also would not want Cloud of Faeries banned because it would put the nail in the coffin for familiar storm decks. Less decks in the format does not seem like a good thing to me.
-Banning Cloudpost just seems wrong completely to me. The deck could probably be taken down a notch, but I don't think banning anything is the way to do it. The ideal thing would be if a card that hit nonbasics was printed as common, (although I doubt that will happen.) No need for bannings here though IMO.
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Am I one of the few people that likes the meta at the moment? I have a few points, but not many I guess.
-Banning Grapeshot would kill storm. There is so much hate for Warrens that without the threat of a grapeshot, people could just sit on hate and Storm would be helpless. Storm has had increasing numbers lately, but it is due to a few strong Storm players being dedicated right now and a lot of people with new toy syndrome that could not play the deck before due to Invasion Land price and now are using Masques lands. These numbers get even better with a few of the players that are nightmares to play against while playing storm sitting out right now. (For example, I have not seen AndreyS in many queues, and he is probably the top antistorm player IMO.)
-Delver Blue is the best deck in the format. I don't think it is banworthy good, but it is very good regardless. However, If anything were to be banned, I would think Gush would be the best choice. It gives the deck so much reach to find more counters. I wouldn't want Delver banned due to it totally changing the archetype which I don't think is broken. I also would not want Cloud of Faeries banned because it would put the nail in the coffin for familiar storm decks. Less decks in the format does not seem like a good thing to me.
-Banning Cloudpost just seems wrong completely to me. The deck could probably be taken down a notch, but I don't think banning anything is the way to do it. The ideal thing would be if a card that hit nonbasics was printed as common, (although I doubt that will happen.) No need for bannings here though IMO.
Do you think wizards would print something like this? They seem to be ok with land destruction as long as the opponent is still left with some lands afterwards (tectonic edge)
Erode the Earth 1R
Sorcery
Each player who controls 3 or more lands sacrifices a nonbasic land.
Anyway, Gush is the best candidate for banning, I think. Banning a card that is already too good for Legacy is uncontroversial, and mono-blue decks would no longer get access to card draw that is immensely better than anything else in the format. I wouldn't be bothered though if Familiar Storm died - it's a revolting deck to play against, and it doesn't do well in the first place anyway; right now that deck makes tournaments less interesting to play in, and it still doesn't place. Honestly, I sometimes wish we could just unprint Urza's block altogether; how much better would this format be without every single god damn card in it?
The only card in Cloudpost that is genuinely broken is Capsize, and that card is a one-of in the deck, and all it really is is a worthwhile reward for surviving into the late game, something that Ulamog's Crusher most definitely is not.
Storm needs to be watched closely now that Faithless Looting is in the format. The problem with it is that it's a narrow deck that loses to hate, which is unhealthy for formats; it warps the other decks if it becomes too powerful.
Anyway, Gush is the best candidate for banning, I think. Banning a card that is already too good for Legacy is uncontroversial, and mono-blue decks would no longer get access to card draw that is immensely better than anything else in the format. I wouldn't be bothered though if Familiar Storm died - it's a revolting deck to play against, and it doesn't do well in the first place anyway; right now that deck makes tournaments less interesting to play in, and it still doesn't place. Honestly, I sometimes wish we could just unprint Urza's block altogether; how much better would this format be without every single god damn card in it?
The only card in Cloudpost that is genuinely broken is Capsize, and that card is a one-of in the deck, and all it really is is a worthwhile reward for surviving into the late game, something that Ulamog's Crusher most definitely is not.
Storm needs to be watched closely now that Faithless Looting is in the format. The problem with it is that it's a narrow deck that loses to hate, which is unhealthy for formats; it warps the other decks if it becomes too powerful.
I feel like most storm decks are dropping Grapeshot in favor of just Empty the Warrens. I really don't think any storm will exist without warrens, because of how weak grapeshot is on its own. What if we just banned Empty the Warrens?
-Banning Grapeshot would kill storm. There is so much hate for Warrens that without the threat of a grapeshot, people could just sit on hate and Storm would be helpless. Storm has had increasing numbers lately, but it is due to a few strong Storm players being dedicated right now and a lot of people with new toy syndrome that could not play the deck before due to Invasion Land price and now are using Masques lands. These numbers get even better with a few of the players that are nightmares to play against while playing storm sitting out right now. (For example, I have not seen AndreyS in many queues, and he is probably the top antistorm player IMO.)
Well put, there really is a lot of hate for warrens, which is why I considered the stopping of Grapeshot to be the only answer for slowing storm, but its a really tough line because you can easily kill off storm and thus the only combo deck in the meta
Well put, there really is a lot of hate for warrens, which is why I considered the stopping of Grapeshot to be the only answer for slowing storm, but its a really tough line because you can easily kill off storm and thus the only combo deck in the meta
Combo doesn't have to be noncreatures only. Mono Green infect is sort of a combo deck. Midnight Guard + Presence of Gond is a combo. There's that one combo with a zendikon and the card that untaps a creature. You probably think of something with Exhume. And of course there's always familiar storm.
Why do we need a combo on the par of TES in legacy? Any non-interactive deck being consistent enough is not a good thing.
Well put, there really is a lot of hate for warrens, which is why I considered the stopping of Grapeshot to be the only answer for slowing storm, but its a really tough line because you can easily kill off storm and thus the only combo deck in the meta
Familiar Storm and Infect are also combo decks, though.
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and while guard gond is a combo have you ever played the deck?? The only one I've seen show was tokens and running it is BRUTAL time sink, which is why I imagine it can't be competitive
and while guard gond is a combo have you ever played the deck?? The only one I've seen show was tokens and running it is BRUTAL time sink, which is why I imagine it can't be competitive
I think it could be competitive but noone has ever tried it yet.
Also, as to the Delver Blue deck, i am starting the think the Cloud of Faeries + Spellstutter Combo is the most broken thing in the deck. Being able to counter their threat and land a flying body is brutal.
Sprite was decent before Cloud was released online, but you actually had to play other faeries to get it to work. Now you can just go turn 2 Cloud, untap your lands, and have mana open to counter their 2 cc or less threat plus leaving you with 2 flyers and the ability to ninja next turn.
Now, certainly take out either of the two and you break the combo. Take away Sprite and Cloud is worse, but still good with ninjas. Take away Cloud and Sprite is really only good in a slower controllish deck.
and while guard gond is a combo have you ever played the deck?? The only one I've seen show was tokens and running it is BRUTAL time sink, which is why I imagine it can't be competitive
There's also Suger 'n' Splice that sort of has the same problem as Guard Gond.
Insideout needs a few more pieces to be competitive. What those pieces are I have no idea.
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Invogorate: elf + invigo invigo vines is just no fair.
Capsize: banning this card will make more viable 3 color decks, is just no possible to play 3 color decks when they bounce the dual ravnika lands, and at the SAME time they can capsize his glimmerpost. a days ago i have a match when he was 1 life and he starts to capsize his glimmerpost and my dual lands, eventually he lock me up.
Cloud Of Faeries : i know that banning this card destroy familiar storm, but im tired of seeing this kind of matchs:
player 1: island delver
player 2: plain
player 3: island flip delver, cloud of faeries.
this can result on Ninja turn 2 with a cloud of faeries untapped, spellstutter sprite, counterspell, snap, and a lot of cards.
i think banning grapeshot would kill post, with sandstorm, echoing truth, holy light, seismic shudder, echoing decayy, we have a lot of hate againt warrens alone, i dont know what other card could be banned from the storm deck.
Hadn't looked at this thread for a while until it got bumped today. I played against Cruentem Dei using that decklist so many times last spring. I am so glad it is gone. He was good enough that could play it at a decent pace, but when people would copy his deck list, better have a book to read.
As far as what cards I think should be banned, maybe not any. There are 2 (predictable) card that WOTC needs to keep a very close eye on though.
Invigorate: I'll try to keep it short, as I have went into it enough in the thread about Infect. Infect is not an overpowered deck. It will never be the top deck in the format. It is however the easiest to pick up, most luck oriented, and quickest to play top deck in the format. The numbers of people wanting to grind with infect is through the roof right now. If this continues on and does not die down with the added amounts of hate, I think it would be time to look towards a ban before these Daily Events get to ridiculous.
Gush: Gush is simply to good of a card for Pauper. When a card is allowed in Pauper, but banned in Legacy you know it has to be risky. Right now it is not doing anything to broken though. The closest thing it is doing to being broken is allowing some blue decks to play down to 16 lands while using Gush both to draw more lands and as mana acceleration. I do not think that is quite worth banning it over. Something more broken will come though. Right now Gush is probably fine in the format, but as more cards are released, and people use these cards in new combinations, WOTC needs to keep a very close eye on Gush.
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Standard: Zombies, AntiTusk Vampires, BUG Graveyard, Bant Hexproof, UR Storm Delver Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques) Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
MUC and Delver decks aren't doing anything really too broken with Gush though. It's an insane card, but the reason it's banned in Legacy is because it fuels incredibly broken combos.
man i wish they had lifted the bad on Stone forger Mystic on std she is not so OP without the hawks, also with ancient grudge back on the saddle swords and batterskull can be keep in check easy.
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DE where every list is MUC...
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If you were to ban a card in that deck, it would probably be Delver of Secrets. The deck was good before Delver was printed, but now it can actually play the aggro game.
Other than that, the only cards I would consider for banning in pauper are Cloudpost and Empty the Warrens.
You know that is a very interesting question because I don't think there is a single card that would slow down the deck. I think the deck could survive beyond losing any of those cards alone and not even sure dropping two of those would slow it. There are a lot of variations when it comes to the count package and even the creature base
Storm is another one I don't know where I'd start.. the format has to have storm because if you stop storm you lose the combo element... maybe the trick there is getting rid of grapeshot and leaving warrens since warrens is easier to deal with after sideboarding and grapeshot is very hard
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How does delver make the game better? It allows for mono blue aggro decks. Mono u control is ok because blue has always been a control color. But with delver you actually make the deck very aggresive. It also is a card that is somewhat luck based.
Blue being able to do what green does, but better, is a dangerous thing to be had
Breaking the colour pie, being aggressive and being slightly luck based are not legitimate reasons to ban a card.
No, but nothing else in the muc deck seems bannable either. I was just stating which card to choose if we had to ban something.
I really just think cloudpost control is overpowering atm
Delver making blue aggro viable is a good thing. Every color should have a viable aggro deck; blue aggro is an important intermediary step on the speed range of decks and it makes the metagame more open.
-Banning Grapeshot would kill storm. There is so much hate for Warrens that without the threat of a grapeshot, people could just sit on hate and Storm would be helpless. Storm has had increasing numbers lately, but it is due to a few strong Storm players being dedicated right now and a lot of people with new toy syndrome that could not play the deck before due to Invasion Land price and now are using Masques lands. These numbers get even better with a few of the players that are nightmares to play against while playing storm sitting out right now. (For example, I have not seen AndreyS in many queues, and he is probably the top antistorm player IMO.)
-Delver Blue is the best deck in the format. I don't think it is banworthy good, but it is very good regardless. However, If anything were to be banned, I would think Gush would be the best choice. It gives the deck so much reach to find more counters. I wouldn't want Delver banned due to it totally changing the archetype which I don't think is broken. I also would not want Cloud of Faeries banned because it would put the nail in the coffin for familiar storm decks. Less decks in the format does not seem like a good thing to me.
-Banning Cloudpost just seems wrong completely to me. The deck could probably be taken down a notch, but I don't think banning anything is the way to do it. The ideal thing would be if a card that hit nonbasics was printed as common, (although I doubt that will happen.) No need for bannings here though IMO.
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater
Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques)
Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Do you think wizards would print something like this? They seem to be ok with land destruction as long as the opponent is still left with some lands afterwards (tectonic edge)
Erode the Earth 1R
Sorcery
Each player who controls 3 or more lands sacrifices a nonbasic land.
Anyway, Gush is the best candidate for banning, I think. Banning a card that is already too good for Legacy is uncontroversial, and mono-blue decks would no longer get access to card draw that is immensely better than anything else in the format. I wouldn't be bothered though if Familiar Storm died - it's a revolting deck to play against, and it doesn't do well in the first place anyway; right now that deck makes tournaments less interesting to play in, and it still doesn't place. Honestly, I sometimes wish we could just unprint Urza's block altogether; how much better would this format be without every single god damn card in it?
The only card in Cloudpost that is genuinely broken is Capsize, and that card is a one-of in the deck, and all it really is is a worthwhile reward for surviving into the late game, something that Ulamog's Crusher most definitely is not.
Storm needs to be watched closely now that Faithless Looting is in the format. The problem with it is that it's a narrow deck that loses to hate, which is unhealthy for formats; it warps the other decks if it becomes too powerful.
I feel like most storm decks are dropping Grapeshot in favor of just Empty the Warrens. I really don't think any storm will exist without warrens, because of how weak grapeshot is on its own. What if we just banned Empty the Warrens?
Well put, there really is a lot of hate for warrens, which is why I considered the stopping of Grapeshot to be the only answer for slowing storm, but its a really tough line because you can easily kill off storm and thus the only combo deck in the meta
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Combo doesn't have to be noncreatures only. Mono Green infect is sort of a combo deck. Midnight Guard + Presence of Gond is a combo. There's that one combo with a zendikon and the card that untaps a creature. You probably think of something with Exhume. And of course there's always familiar storm.
Why do we need a combo on the par of TES in legacy? Any non-interactive deck being consistent enough is not a good thing.
Familiar Storm and Infect are also combo decks, though.
and while guard gond is a combo have you ever played the deck?? The only one I've seen show was tokens and running it is BRUTAL time sink, which is why I imagine it can't be competitive
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I think it could be competitive but noone has ever tried it yet.
Also, as to the Delver Blue deck, i am starting the think the Cloud of Faeries + Spellstutter Combo is the most broken thing in the deck. Being able to counter their threat and land a flying body is brutal.
Sprite was decent before Cloud was released online, but you actually had to play other faeries to get it to work. Now you can just go turn 2 Cloud, untap your lands, and have mana open to counter their 2 cc or less threat plus leaving you with 2 flyers and the ability to ninja next turn.
Now, certainly take out either of the two and you break the combo. Take away Sprite and Cloud is worse, but still good with ninjas. Take away Cloud and Sprite is really only good in a slower controllish deck.
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
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Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
There's also Suger 'n' Splice that sort of has the same problem as Guard Gond.
Insideout needs a few more pieces to be competitive. What those pieces are I have no idea.
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Invogorate: elf + invigo invigo vines is just no fair.
Capsize: banning this card will make more viable 3 color decks, is just no possible to play 3 color decks when they bounce the dual ravnika lands, and at the SAME time they can capsize his glimmerpost. a days ago i have a match when he was 1 life and he starts to capsize his glimmerpost and my dual lands, eventually he lock me up.
Cloud Of Faeries : i know that banning this card destroy familiar storm, but im tired of seeing this kind of matchs:
player 1: island delver
player 2: plain
player 3: island flip delver, cloud of faeries.
this can result on Ninja turn 2 with a cloud of faeries untapped, spellstutter sprite, counterspell, snap, and a lot of cards.
i think banning grapeshot would kill post, with sandstorm, echoing truth, holy light, seismic shudder, echoing decayy, we have a lot of hate againt warrens alone, i dont know what other card could be banned from the storm deck.
As far as what cards I think should be banned, maybe not any. There are 2 (predictable) card that WOTC needs to keep a very close eye on though.
Invigorate: I'll try to keep it short, as I have went into it enough in the thread about Infect. Infect is not an overpowered deck. It will never be the top deck in the format. It is however the easiest to pick up, most luck oriented, and quickest to play top deck in the format. The numbers of people wanting to grind with infect is through the roof right now. If this continues on and does not die down with the added amounts of hate, I think it would be time to look towards a ban before these Daily Events get to ridiculous.
Gush: Gush is simply to good of a card for Pauper. When a card is allowed in Pauper, but banned in Legacy you know it has to be risky. Right now it is not doing anything to broken though. The closest thing it is doing to being broken is allowing some blue decks to play down to 16 lands while using Gush both to draw more lands and as mana acceleration. I do not think that is quite worth banning it over. Something more broken will come though. Right now Gush is probably fine in the format, but as more cards are released, and people use these cards in new combinations, WOTC needs to keep a very close eye on Gush.
Modern: Storm, Jund, Ghast Blaster, Elf Warriors
Legacy: RUG Cascade, Imperial Painter, Affinity, Dredge, Elves, Merfolk, Pox, Dragon Stompie, Goblins, ANT, Belcher
Classic: Delver, Dredge, Jacerater
Draft: I will draft basically any format online (other than Masques)
Pauper: MTGO's #1 most handsome Pauper Storm player
Deck List:
BMBCB
UBUB Control/TeachingsBU
Ha! My Pauper UG Post Deck Showed!
Classic
BPoxB
Legacy
GB Eva Depths (Primer By Me) BG
Monthly Academy Showcase!
An Introduction to Competitive Pauper! *Updated*
Pauper Meta Analysis & What Wizards Left Out!
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