I wasn't trying to damage your reputation. I was just saying that you decided to ban Necrotic Ooze because I was able to win turn 1 with it. I didn't mean to imply that you did it for a competitive advantage. However, I did mean to imply that it was unfair that Lackey and Piledriver were allowed but Ooze wasn't when Lackey and Piledriver are components of legitimate legacy decks and Ooze would never be because it's too inconsistent and there are better/more consistent combos in Legacy. I appreciate your efforts. I don't want anyone to resign.
As for the rest, if people insist on banning Ooze then so be it. I'm not really a combo player at heart, I just saw a possible opportunity to build a deck that could win on turn 1 in a budget format, and I took it. I was proud of myself when I pulled it off. It just seems that the bans have been mostly applied to combo decks when combo should be an element of any healthy format. It seems as if you want to ban the combo decks based on speed, but that's really the only advantage that they have. They are less consistent than agro decks and don't have the interaction of control decks. If you take away their speed by saying you don't want a combo deck that can win by turn 4 then there's no reason to play them.
Now that we are on the topic here are the cards I would unban and the reasons for it:
1) Hypergenesis-Takes a lot to build around the combo with cascade and doesn't automatically win when you do. Turn 3 is the earliest it can win and that's assuming a perfect draw. Only costs .01, which evidences it's lack of value in other formats. It provides an element of combo to the format that is not too broken and is inexpensive.
2) Dark Ritual-Viable in a lot more decks than just Ooze. Mono-Black was a legitimate deck before this was banned. It enables more fun decks. I would be in favor of unbanning this and keeping Ooze and Tendrils banned if people find combo to be too fast.
3) Misthollow Griffin-It has a good interaction with Moorland Haunt, but the interaction is slow and isn't oppressive. It can be easily shutdown with Ghost Quarter and Pithing Needle and is slow enough that people can respond to it.
If you want to be a format where Counterspell is banned then I can get behind that. I appreciate the desire to keep this a fun, yet competitive environment. Playing against Counterspell is admittedly fun for no one. I can also get behind banning cards that enable turn 1/turn 2 kills. That's not fun for the more casual players. However, Hypergenesis/Dark Ritual/Misthollow Griffin allow more fun decks not fewer. They help certain decks become competitive, but the decks that can run these cards aren't oppressive.
I wasn't trying to damage your reputation. I was just saying that you decided to ban Necrotic Ooze because I was able to win turn 1 with it. I didn't mean to imply that you did it for a competitive advantage. However, I did mean to imply that it was unfair that Lackey and Piledriver were allowed but Ooze wasn't when Lackey and Piledriver are components of legitimate legacy decks and Ooze would never be because it's too inconsistent and there are better/more consistent combos in Legacy. I appreciate your efforts. I don't want anyone to resign.
As for the rest, if people insist on banning Ooze then so be it. I'm not really a combo player at heart, I just saw a possible opportunity to build a deck that could win on turn 1 in a budget format, and I took it. I was proud of myself when I pulled it off. It just seems that the bans have been mostly applied to combo decks when combo should be an element of any healthy format. It seems as if you want to ban the combo decks based on speed, but that's really the only advantage that they have. They are less consistent than agro decks and don't have the interaction of control decks. If you take away their speed by saying you don't want a combo deck that can win by turn 4 then there's no reason to play them.
Now that we are on the topic here are the cards I would unban and the reasons for it:
1) Hypergenesis-Takes a lot to build around the combo with cascade and doesn't automatically win when you do. Turn 3 is the earliest it can win and that's assuming a perfect draw. Only costs .01, which evidences it's lack of value in other formats. It provides an element of combo to the format that is not too broken and is inexpensive.
2) Dark Ritual-Viable in a lot more decks than just Ooze. Mono-Black was a legitimate deck before this was banned. It enables more fun decks. I would be in favor of unbanning this and keeping Ooze and Tendrils banned if people find combo to be too fast.
3) Misthollow Griffin-It has a good interaction with Moorland Haunt, but the interaction is slow and isn't oppressive. It can be easily shutdown with Ghost Quarter and Pithing Needle and is slow enough that people can respond to it.
If you want to be a format where Counterspell is banned then I can get behind that. I appreciate the desire to keep this a fun, yet competitive environment. Playing against Counterspell is admittedly fun for no one. I can also get behind banning cards that enable turn 1/turn 2 kills. That's not fun for the more casual players. However, Hypergenesis/Dark Ritual/Misthollow Griffin allow more fun decks not fewer. They help certain decks become competitive, but the decks that can run these cards aren't oppressive.
1) It's absolutely legitimate to discuss my or our decisions as community. But I must admit that the time of this discussion is really annoying me, because 2 weeks ago, all players could have read the whole discussion in the old forum, my answers and explanations, the comments of other players( mostly, if not overwhelmingly supporting that decision), etc.pp
Now I was forced to repeat it in a short summary.
2) The part about banning cards because the community yells for them, was just false:"They play a few events, eventually winning one. Once they do, the entire community calls for banning. Deck gets nerfed." I know, some players asked for banning cards in our main chat, and I do collect the opinions, but if I wait 5 or 6 months before actually banning cards, it's just not the way as you described it! Necrotic Ooze is an exception, as it should have been part of the 'big banning round' 3 months ago , and was allowed another month. Another fact: We have 10 cards banned, and 2 restricted. That doesn't sound like that many decks got nerfed, especially not the 'eventually winning ones'. The truth is that 5 cards are on that list because of just 2 decks: UW control and Ooze! And that all players were sick and bored to death by those. It was the first time, I banned cards that were not overpowered themselves, but just to prevent or weaken those decks significantly. That's the reason why Ooze was banned afterwards, because if Oozedecks rule now, that UW control was weakened, the goal of this bannings would have been missed completely.
3) Hypergenesis/Dark Ritual/Misthollow Griffin
Dark Ritual was mainly( but not only!) banned to weaken Ooze, so indeed we could reconsider/ vote to unban it.
The other two were banned years before I even knew that Heirloom exists. So I have no idea, which were the reasons for those decisions. I'm open for a discussion or poll here,too. Does anybody support the unbanning of any of those 3 cards?
4) I'm a player. I like constructing, but without a 'game' to play , that would be fruitless for me. I played this game from the beginning, when there were 360 cards. 360 for ALL colors. Including artifacts. At that time, deck constructing and playing were divided 50/50. You played with the cards you've gotten, there was no unlimited supply of cards, some drove hundreds of miles for a gameshop, who still had packs. Nowerdays, with bots online and any card available( although there are more than 20.000), I would say it's 80 or 90% deck construction to 10-20% playing. So people consider a T0 or T1 victory without opponent's interaction as satisfying.
I'm pretty sure, that Magic died 20 years ago, if that would have been the standard experience for the majority of players. Seriously!
So, you are right, principially, I'm no big fan of combodecks, they always prevent or avoid a 'game'. It's more like:
'Look, I won! I have card A+B, so you are screwed.' Of course there are variations, like HighTide: 'I may not have B, yet, but I will draw cards and shuffle now in this single turn for 10 min until I draw B, and then you are screwed. Watch me!'
Maybe another reason, to find a new host for Heirloom. I didn't ban cards easily or fast, and tried to be not biased. If you take this responsibility seriously, it is exhausting, not immediately but in the course of time.
I'm doing this for more than 18 months now, every weekend, and I feel tired. I need a vacation or break, at least.
I don't want to see you resign and I don't think anyone else does either. You do have a right to express your opinion and so do I.
I agree with Miha and remember when Misthollow Griffin was banned. It was because the people who didn't want to play against it were the loudest. The interaction can be easily stopped by Ghost Quarter and/or Pithing Needle, both of which are legal and good cards on their own. Misthollow Griffin isn't a good card on its own so any deck that could stop the interaction would be favored.
Hypergenesis is banned in Modern because of Griselbrand and other Modern legal cards, let's be clear about that. From there, there are many ways to win combo win, the easiest being Borborygmos Enraged or the budget version, Seismic Assault. As those cards aren't legal in Heirloom I don't think it will be a problem. Sure, you can still drop a lot of power on turn 3 off a cascade spell, but the opponent can as well. There aren't a lot of ways to win turn 3 with the deck in Heirloom and even if there were, I think we can agree that a turn 3 kill is not nearly as bad as turn 1 or 2.
My suggestion, which you seem open to, is to revisit the ban list in conjunction with each rotation. I think it would be cool to have a system where the community votes to ban 2-3 new cards per rotation but in exchange 2-3 cards previously banned are put to a vote to determine whether they should be unbanned.
The readers of our vanished forum in wizard.com may remember, that 3 months ago, when all the other cards got banned, Goblin Piledriver was not,just because it rotated out, anyway! Which was not so clever from me, because it only delayed the decision to a later point in time...
Which is now! Piledriver rotated in again, and so I will ban it from now on.
On the subject of unbanning Hypergenesis, Dark Ritual, and Misthollow Griffin, I support unbanning all three. Misthollow is slower than dirt against combo, Hypergenesis is quite inconsistent, and Dark Ritual allows for non High tide storm to be truly viable while not being oppressive due to the lack of Tendrils of Agony.
When Lackey was banned, Goblin decks were just not played for about 5 months. When it was unbanned, Lackeys added more speed, but the Piledrivers won the games. Only with Piledrivers a goblin deck can win on T3. All the mass damage or removal spells cost 3 mana at least.
If it's not in the starting hand or drawn in T1, a Lackey is usually useless.
I support ML Berlin in that Lackey should be legal but Piledriver should be banned. If you understand his underlying philosophy, it's basically that he doesn't want a deck to win before turn 4. Lackey is objectively more powerful than Piledriver as a turn 1 threat is much more difficult to deal with than a turn 2 threat and Lackey is more consistently powerful. However, Lackey does not enable a turn 3 kill. At best, it enables a Siege-Gang to be dropped turn 2, followed up by a Lord turn 3. Between lackey, siege-gang, and the lord that is 1 damage done on turn 2, and 12 on turn 3. While that is certainly powerful, it provides an opportunity to respond with Engineered Plague for example. I accept this underlying philosophy.
However, if the philosophy behind the bans is primarily to prevent decks capable of winning turn 3 or earlier from existing, then it must unambiguously be the case that Misthollow Griffin, Hypergenesis, and Dark Ritual be legal. I don't have a problem with the philosophy, provided that it is consistent.
On the subject of unbanning Hypergenesis, Dark Ritual, and Misthollow Griffin, I support unbanning all three. Misthollow is slower than dirt against combo, Hypergenesis is quite inconsistent, and Dark Ritual allows for non High tide storm to be truly viable while not being oppressive due to the lack of Tendrils of Agony.
Agreed on the first two. As for Dark Ritual, it's not only good in storm decks. It's just generally a good card, which makes myriad tier 2 decks more viable including our version of The Gate (Black Aggro-Control). As Berlin mentioned earlier, it was banned to prevent Necrotic Ooze from winning on turn 1/2. However, once we realized Ooze could still consistently win on turn 4, following potentially a Duress/Hymn to Tourach open, Ooze itself was banned making the Dark Ritual ban completely superfluous.
Lordpipas will be the new host for heirloom. I will host just one event from now on: Chainsaw Massacre S100.
Friday fits better into Lordpipas' schedule, and I can reduce my Mtgo event-activity to one day= Saturday, so we switch events. Another reason is not competing about or canibalizing our player base. I will update starting post on Monday.
Lordpipas will be the new host for heirloom. I will host just one event from now on: Chainsaw Massacre S100.
Friday fits better into Lordpipas' schedule, and I can reduce my Mtgo event-activity to one day= Saturday, so we switch events. Another reason is not competing about or canibalizing our player base. I will update starting post on Monday.
Remember to change the thread title to Fridays & Sundays (it's in the Tools drop down tab)
I don't have to tell you that 11PM GMT/Midnight CET is super late. I'm guessing the host is unable to make 5:00PM or 5:30PM? Doesn't matter to me, I don't play heirloom
It may not be an ideal starting time for Europeans, but for all Americans, South or North, who can't finish their jobs earlier, like our new host. There is still another event on Sunday with an ideal starting time for Europeans.
GAtherling (Longtimegone) still hasn't answered or accommodated Lordpipas, so he wasn't able to setup the Heirloom events, which I unfortunately noticed only 3.5 h before Friday event. Of course, this uncertainty( if event takes place), was bad for the number of players. I will setup the next events, to prevent this confusion. Hopefully gatherling reacts soon.
First to all, im sorry for not write here before. My nickname here is different from game. The correct name in MTGO is Lordpipas
On the other hand, i was thinking in some changes to the Heirloom. I talked with other players about the posibility of introduce some new "format" in Heirloom.
Here, you can find some ideas:
- Standard Heirloom
- Tribal Heirloom: only with creatures (no spell - enchantment, sorcery, artifact or instant). I believe that Goblin and Elf need bann from this event.
- Magician Heirloom: is the opposite of the Tribal Heirloom. All decks without creatures.
At this moment, we have 8 events per month. My ideas is rotate some events. For example:
- 6 Regular events
- 1 Standard Heirloom
- 1 "special event": it can be Tribal, Magician or any other format that we can think!!
I think that heirloom is diverse enough that additional complications/deck building restrictions are not necessary. I would potentially play in those events, and it would probably be fun, but I don't think this should happen too frequently. Tribal already shakes things up with different types of events, and if you don't pay attention to the e-mail, you might show up with an illegal deck. This makes keeping up with the format a must, which makes it far less casual. With the banned list/allowed list that we have in heirloom it may be asking too much to have extra complicated events on a regular basis.
I also think that the price caps should change slightly. I think each rarity increase should double the price cap and the price caps should be round numbers. I propose: 15 Cents common, 30 cents uncommon, 60 rare, and $1.20 mythic. I think that is much more intuitive. The budget players cannot really complain about price increase because the most expensive cards are mythics and this reduces the price cap for mythics. The budget players should actually be thrilled because the legal list would be inclusive of more commons and uncommons. I always thought it odd that I cannot play a 14 cent common but I can play a 1.40 mythic that costs 10x as much. IN A BUDGET FORMAT. Things that make you go HMMM.
Shouldn't Decree of Justice be banned only in blue decks like Swords to Plowshares? Maybe I want to play a Spectral Procession/Honor of the Pure/Decree of Justice/Lightning Bolt deck.
I also think that the price caps should change slightly. I think each rarity increase should double the price cap and the price caps should be round numbers. I propose: 15 Cents common, 30 cents uncommon, 60 rare, and $1.20 mythic. I think that is much more intuitive. The budget players cannot really complain about price increase because the most expensive cards are mythics and this reduces the price cap for mythics. The budget players should actually be thrilled because the legal list would be inclusive of more commons and uncommons. I always thought it odd that I cannot play a 14 cent common but I can play a 1.40 mythic that costs 10x as much. IN A BUDGET FORMAT. Things that make you go HMMM.
Shouldn't Decree of Justice be banned only in blue decks like Swords to Plowshares? Maybe I want to play a Spectral Procession/Honor of the Pure/Decree of Justice/Lightning Bolt deck.
I don't know what this had to do with my original post. Anyway, banning a card only for a specific deck is weird/unfair. Decree of Justice should be allowed for every deck, I doubt it will impact the format. The ban list for Heirloom atm seems clunky and unusual. I was with the format when the bans occurred and I still don't understand the reasoning fully. It seems a ton of mediocre cards (Griffin/Decree etc.) are banned while overpowered cards are not. I can elaborate as needed.
[quote from="SenseiRob »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/magic-online-formats/other-mtgo-formats/641612-classic-heirloom-every-friday-sunday-now-in-our-10?comment=55"][quote from="Honorbound84 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/magic-online-formats/other-mtgo-formats/641612-classic-heirloom-every-friday-sunday-now-in-our-10?comment=26"]
I don't know what this had to do with my original post. Anyway, banning a card only for a specific deck is weird/unfair. Decree of Justice should be allowed for every deck, I doubt it will impact the format. The ban list for Heirloom atm seems clunky and unusual. I was with the format when the bans occurred and I still don't understand the reasoning fully. It seems a ton of mediocre cards (Griffin/Decree etc.) are banned while overpowered cards are not. I can elaborate as needed.
I had to look at the banned list to see what griffin was banned, and now I want to know what deck caused this. How is Misthollow Griffin broken in any deck that's not food chain? Food Chain is clearly not in this format... why is this banned?
a) Don't think any more sub-formats are required
b) The banned list needs to be locked at
c) Clarification if there is an intention to get this 'ban this card' dance as soon as a decks wins regularly.
A deck winning regularly should be the reward for good deckbuilding, not punishing it with bans.
I used to play this format, but the random changes to the ban list made me leave it.
b) The banned list needs to be locked at
c) Clarification if there is an intention to get this 'ban this card' dance as soon as a decks wins regularly.
A deck winning regularly should be the reward for good deckbuilding, not punishing it with bans.
I used to play this format, but the random changes to the ban list made me leave it.
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As for the rest, if people insist on banning Ooze then so be it. I'm not really a combo player at heart, I just saw a possible opportunity to build a deck that could win on turn 1 in a budget format, and I took it. I was proud of myself when I pulled it off. It just seems that the bans have been mostly applied to combo decks when combo should be an element of any healthy format. It seems as if you want to ban the combo decks based on speed, but that's really the only advantage that they have. They are less consistent than agro decks and don't have the interaction of control decks. If you take away their speed by saying you don't want a combo deck that can win by turn 4 then there's no reason to play them.
Now that we are on the topic here are the cards I would unban and the reasons for it:
1) Hypergenesis-Takes a lot to build around the combo with cascade and doesn't automatically win when you do. Turn 3 is the earliest it can win and that's assuming a perfect draw. Only costs .01, which evidences it's lack of value in other formats. It provides an element of combo to the format that is not too broken and is inexpensive.
2) Dark Ritual-Viable in a lot more decks than just Ooze. Mono-Black was a legitimate deck before this was banned. It enables more fun decks. I would be in favor of unbanning this and keeping Ooze and Tendrils banned if people find combo to be too fast.
3) Misthollow Griffin-It has a good interaction with Moorland Haunt, but the interaction is slow and isn't oppressive. It can be easily shutdown with Ghost Quarter and Pithing Needle and is slow enough that people can respond to it.
If you want to be a format where Counterspell is banned then I can get behind that. I appreciate the desire to keep this a fun, yet competitive environment. Playing against Counterspell is admittedly fun for no one. I can also get behind banning cards that enable turn 1/turn 2 kills. That's not fun for the more casual players. However, Hypergenesis/Dark Ritual/Misthollow Griffin allow more fun decks not fewer. They help certain decks become competitive, but the decks that can run these cards aren't oppressive.
1) It's absolutely legitimate to discuss my or our decisions as community. But I must admit that the time of this discussion is really annoying me, because 2 weeks ago, all players could have read the whole discussion in the old forum, my answers and explanations, the comments of other players( mostly, if not overwhelmingly supporting that decision), etc.pp
Now I was forced to repeat it in a short summary.
2) The part about banning cards because the community yells for them, was just false:"They play a few events, eventually winning one. Once they do, the entire community calls for banning. Deck gets nerfed." I know, some players asked for banning cards in our main chat, and I do collect the opinions, but if I wait 5 or 6 months before actually banning cards, it's just not the way as you described it! Necrotic Ooze is an exception, as it should have been part of the 'big banning round' 3 months ago , and was allowed another month. Another fact: We have 10 cards banned, and 2 restricted. That doesn't sound like that many decks got nerfed, especially not the 'eventually winning ones'. The truth is that 5 cards are on that list because of just 2 decks: UW control and Ooze! And that all players were sick and bored to death by those. It was the first time, I banned cards that were not overpowered themselves, but just to prevent or weaken those decks significantly. That's the reason why Ooze was banned afterwards, because if Oozedecks rule now, that UW control was weakened, the goal of this bannings would have been missed completely.
3) Hypergenesis/Dark Ritual/Misthollow Griffin
Dark Ritual was mainly( but not only!) banned to weaken Ooze, so indeed we could reconsider/ vote to unban it.
The other two were banned years before I even knew that Heirloom exists. So I have no idea, which were the reasons for those decisions. I'm open for a discussion or poll here,too. Does anybody support the unbanning of any of those 3 cards?
4) I'm a player. I like constructing, but without a 'game' to play , that would be fruitless for me. I played this game from the beginning, when there were 360 cards. 360 for ALL colors. Including artifacts. At that time, deck constructing and playing were divided 50/50. You played with the cards you've gotten, there was no unlimited supply of cards, some drove hundreds of miles for a gameshop, who still had packs. Nowerdays, with bots online and any card available( although there are more than 20.000), I would say it's 80 or 90% deck construction to 10-20% playing. So people consider a T0 or T1 victory without opponent's interaction as satisfying.
I'm pretty sure, that Magic died 20 years ago, if that would have been the standard experience for the majority of players. Seriously!
So, you are right, principially, I'm no big fan of combodecks, they always prevent or avoid a 'game'. It's more like:
'Look, I won! I have card A+B, so you are screwed.' Of course there are variations, like HighTide: 'I may not have B, yet, but I will draw cards and shuffle now in this single turn for 10 min until I draw B, and then you are screwed. Watch me!'
Maybe another reason, to find a new host for Heirloom. I didn't ban cards easily or fast, and tried to be not biased. If you take this responsibility seriously, it is exhausting, not immediately but in the course of time.
I'm doing this for more than 18 months now, every weekend, and I feel tired. I need a vacation or break, at least.
I agree with Miha and remember when Misthollow Griffin was banned. It was because the people who didn't want to play against it were the loudest. The interaction can be easily stopped by Ghost Quarter and/or Pithing Needle, both of which are legal and good cards on their own. Misthollow Griffin isn't a good card on its own so any deck that could stop the interaction would be favored.
Hypergenesis is banned in Modern because of Griselbrand and other Modern legal cards, let's be clear about that. From there, there are many ways to win combo win, the easiest being Borborygmos Enraged or the budget version, Seismic Assault. As those cards aren't legal in Heirloom I don't think it will be a problem. Sure, you can still drop a lot of power on turn 3 off a cascade spell, but the opponent can as well. There aren't a lot of ways to win turn 3 with the deck in Heirloom and even if there were, I think we can agree that a turn 3 kill is not nearly as bad as turn 1 or 2.
My suggestion, which you seem open to, is to revisit the ban list in conjunction with each rotation. I think it would be cool to have a system where the community votes to ban 2-3 new cards per rotation but in exchange 2-3 cards previously banned are put to a vote to determine whether they should be unbanned.
Which is now! Piledriver rotated in again, and so I will ban it from now on.
piledriver is just a fancy bear. lackey is the one making unfair plays in goblin.
We had this discussion before, when Lackey was banned.
If it's not in the starting hand or drawn in T1, a Lackey is usually useless.
However, if the philosophy behind the bans is primarily to prevent decks capable of winning turn 3 or earlier from existing, then it must unambiguously be the case that Misthollow Griffin, Hypergenesis, and Dark Ritual be legal. I don't have a problem with the philosophy, provided that it is consistent.
Agreed on the first two. As for Dark Ritual, it's not only good in storm decks. It's just generally a good card, which makes myriad tier 2 decks more viable including our version of The Gate (Black Aggro-Control). As Berlin mentioned earlier, it was banned to prevent Necrotic Ooze from winning on turn 1/2. However, once we realized Ooze could still consistently win on turn 4, following potentially a Duress/Hymn to Tourach open, Ooze itself was banned making the Dark Ritual ban completely superfluous.
Friday fits better into Lordpipas' schedule, and I can reduce my Mtgo event-activity to one day= Saturday, so we switch events. Another reason is not competing about or canibalizing our player base. I will update starting post on Monday.
Remember to change the thread title to Fridays & Sundays (it's in the Tools drop down tab)
I don't have to tell you that 11PM GMT/Midnight CET is super late. I'm guessing the host is unable to make 5:00PM or 5:30PM? Doesn't matter to me, I don't play heirloom
Also if anyone was not aware, the old Wizards forum was archived if you do want to read the reasoning behind the bannings of old.
https://web.archive.org/web/20151101091821/https://community.wizards.com/forum/magic-online-player-run-events/threads/3946426
https://web.archive.org/web/20151001104030/http://community.wizards.com/forum/magic-online-player-run-events/threads/4147256
The internet is forever...
First to all, im sorry for not write here before. My nickname here is different from game. The correct name in MTGO is Lordpipas
On the other hand, i was thinking in some changes to the Heirloom. I talked with other players about the posibility of introduce some new "format" in Heirloom.
Here, you can find some ideas:
- Standard Heirloom
- Tribal Heirloom: only with creatures (no spell - enchantment, sorcery, artifact or instant). I believe that Goblin and Elf need bann from this event.
- Magician Heirloom: is the opposite of the Tribal Heirloom. All decks without creatures.
At this moment, we have 8 events per month. My ideas is rotate some events. For example:
- 6 Regular events
- 1 Standard Heirloom
- 1 "special event": it can be Tribal, Magician or any other format that we can think!!
So, im waiting for yours ideas
The name Tribal Heirloom is confusing, it would get confused with Tribal Wars. I would name it Critter Fight or Summoning Battle or something.
Besides the name, I think that all creatures could be too restrictive. I'm thinking something like:
Summoning Battle- Instants and Sorceries Banned. Creatures Permitted.
Magician Heirloom- Creatures Banned. Instants and Sorceries Permitted.
Permitted in both: Planeswalkers, non-creature artifacts, non-creature enchantments.
(Also assuming Dryad Arbor's price never drops low enough to be Heirloom legal.)
Any other comment or idea?
Shouldn't Decree of Justice be banned only in blue decks like Swords to Plowshares? Maybe I want to play a Spectral Procession/Honor of the Pure/Decree of Justice/Lightning Bolt deck.
I don't know what this had to do with my original post. Anyway, banning a card only for a specific deck is weird/unfair. Decree of Justice should be allowed for every deck, I doubt it will impact the format. The ban list for Heirloom atm seems clunky and unusual. I was with the format when the bans occurred and I still don't understand the reasoning fully. It seems a ton of mediocre cards (Griffin/Decree etc.) are banned while overpowered cards are not. I can elaborate as needed.
I had to look at the banned list to see what griffin was banned, and now I want to know what deck caused this. How is Misthollow Griffin broken in any deck that's not food chain? Food Chain is clearly not in this format... why is this banned?
Yeah, a couple:
a) Don't think any more sub-formats are required
b) The banned list needs to be locked at
c) Clarification if there is an intention to get this 'ban this card' dance as soon as a decks wins regularly.
A deck winning regularly should be the reward for good deckbuilding, not punishing it with bans.
I used to play this format, but the random changes to the ban list made me leave it.