Shouldn't the opponent be the one accused of stalling? The guy ran out of time! Isn't that the most obvious indication that he used a lot of time? Running out of it?
@OP, keep doing what you're doing but next time beat them to the punch. Report the other person for stalling right away. With their clock at 0 it would be hard for them to argue that they DIDN'T slow play. If activating an irrelevant ability 4 times is enough for them to run out of time, their issues extend far beyond you using an irrelevant ability 4 times. I assure you this isn't the first time that person lost to time and it won't be the last.
I've never been "reprimanded" for having an opponent run out of time and I will gladly continue to do anything in my power to win a game. Hello! You play to win the game. You don't play to lose! Luckily my opponents are free to use as much of their own clock as they would like so I've never been in a situation where I could have been accused of manipulating their clock. I only have control over my own clock.
Shouldn't the opponent be the one accused of stalling? The guy ran out of time! Isn't that the most obvious indication that he used a lot of time? Running out of it?
If his opponent runs out of time, then HE loses. "Stalling" is intentionally manipulating the clock in order to gain an advantage. Running out of time is NOT an advantage (it's the very opposite, obviously), so an opponent that does so is not stalling.
@OP, keep doing what you're doing but next time beat them to the punch. Report the other person for stalling right away. With their clock at 0 it would be hard for them to argue that they DIDN'T slow play. If activating an irrelevant ability 4 times is enough for them to run out of time, their issues extend far beyond you using an irrelevant ability 4 times. I assure you this isn't the first time that person lost to time and it won't be the last.
I won because my opponent used up his clock....so I should report him?
Using up your own clock and losing is not a violation of any rule. You're already punished for doing so by, you know, losing. Reporting your opponent for it would therefore be frivolous.
Clearly, this isn't true, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. You do exert some level of control over your opponent's clock. By continually activating unnecessary abilities, you are forcing time off your opponent's clock (ie. intentionally manipulating the clock in order to gain an advantage, or...stalling).
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I've never been "reprimanded" for having an opponent run out of time and I will gladly continue to do anything in my power to win a game. Hello! You play to win the game.
And if in the process of winning you violate a rule, you will get a warning.
He violated a rule ("don't stall"), and got a warning. Simple as that.
And yes, your idea of stalling seems to be misguided, but ThoughtXRiot responded to that already.
The purpose of the time clock is to stop players just going afk when they are losing or deliberately taking a long time to annoy their opponent. It was not put there to punish control/combo decks that will generally force your clock lower than other decks. I have won by time-out many times but could never advocate doing it deliberately.
Shouldn't the opponent be the one accused of stalling? The guy ran out of time! Isn't that the most obvious indication that he used a lot of time? Running out of it?
Stalling is not "using a lot of time." Stalling is deliberately trying to gain an advantage from the game clock. It is entirely possible for a deck to use a large amount of time while not deliberately trying to gain an advantage using the clock; doing so is absoutely not stalling.
@OP, keep doing what you're doing but next time beat them to the punch. Report the other person for stalling right away. With their clock at 0 it would be hard for them to argue that they DIDN'T slow play.
Until the rep looks at the game log and sees Crypt Rats repeatedly activated for 0. That's likely to cause some suspicion as there is almost never going to be any other tactical reason to do this besides running out the clock.
If activating an irrelevant ability 4 times is enough for them to run out of time, their issues extend far beyond you using an irrelevant ability 4 times. I assure you this isn't the first time that person lost to time and it won't be the last.
Again, there's a difference between merely using a lot of time and deliberately trying to gain an advantage from the fact that there's a game clock. You are assuming a rules violation solely on the amount of time that was left on the clock, and this is simply not a safe assumption.
I've never been "reprimanded" for having an opponent run out of time and I will gladly continue to do anything in my power to win a game. Hello! You play to win the game. You don't play to lose!
Which is fine, as long as your definition of "anything within my power" coincides with the tournament rules. When it doesn't, the result is what happened here.
Luckily my opponents are free to use as much of their own clock as they would like so I've never been in a situation where I could have been accused of manipulating their clock. I only have control over my own clock.
I think the OP is a pretty good case for why that last sentence isn't really true.
I don't play MTGO but I'm just wondering if there's any legitimate reason to play crypt rats in a format on MTGO or if it's purely put into decks as a way to game the clock?
I don't play MTGO but I'm just wondering if there's any legitimate reason to play crypt rats in a format on MTGO or if it's purely put into decks as a way to game the clock?
It's played in monoblack pauper decks.
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I have won by time-out many times but could never advocate doing it deliberately.
To be fair, I do advocate using it deliberately when it's within your rights to do so (e.g. forcing an opponent with one minute left to actually go through all the motions of a combo like Splinter Twin / Deceiver Exarch).
To be fair, I do advocate using it deliberately when it's within your rights to do so (e.g. forcing an opponent with one minute left to actually go through all the motions of a combo like Splinter Twin / Deceiver Exarch).
Actually this is covered in a section of the tournament rules as demonstrating an infinite loop once and not having to go through all the motions of it. This is however not in evidence under the current UI for mtgo. Therefore if you timed me out on that I would report you for stalling.
The player couldn't have yielded to the Crypt Rat ability? I've been in a lot of auto-yielding situations and I never hit F6, always just choose the individual cards to ignore. This is the first time I've heard of the mana-in-the-pool situation effecting something like this.
Could someone clarify? Without hitting F6, can you not auto-yield to a particular card when there is mana in the pool?
The player couldn't have yielded to the Crypt Rat ability? I've been in a lot of auto-yielding situations and I never hit F6, always just choose the individual cards to ignore. This is the first time I've heard of the mana-in-the-pool situation effecting something like this.
Could someone clarify? Without hitting F6, can you not auto-yield to a particular card when there is mana in the pool?
I am not initmately familiar with the MTGO interface, but from what I'm gathering from others in this thread, it is correct that you cannot auto-yield when there is mana in your mana pool.
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@OP, keep doing what you're doing but next time beat them to the punch. Report the other person for stalling right away. With their clock at 0 it would be hard for them to argue that they DIDN'T slow play. If activating an irrelevant ability 4 times is enough for them to run out of time, their issues extend far beyond you using an irrelevant ability 4 times. I assure you this isn't the first time that person lost to time and it won't be the last.
I've never been "reprimanded" for having an opponent run out of time and I will gladly continue to do anything in my power to win a game. Hello! You play to win the game. You don't play to lose! Luckily my opponents are free to use as much of their own clock as they would like so I've never been in a situation where I could have been accused of manipulating their clock. I only have control over my own clock.
If his opponent runs out of time, then HE loses. "Stalling" is intentionally manipulating the clock in order to gain an advantage. Running out of time is NOT an advantage (it's the very opposite, obviously), so an opponent that does so is not stalling.
I won because my opponent used up his clock....so I should report him?
Using up your own clock and losing is not a violation of any rule. You're already punished for doing so by, you know, losing. Reporting your opponent for it would therefore be frivolous.
Clearly, this isn't true, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. You do exert some level of control over your opponent's clock. By continually activating unnecessary abilities, you are forcing time off your opponent's clock (ie. intentionally manipulating the clock in order to gain an advantage, or...stalling).
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He violated a rule ("don't stall"), and got a warning. Simple as that.
And yes, your idea of stalling seems to be misguided, but ThoughtXRiot responded to that already.
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Stalling is not "using a lot of time." Stalling is deliberately trying to gain an advantage from the game clock. It is entirely possible for a deck to use a large amount of time while not deliberately trying to gain an advantage using the clock; doing so is absoutely not stalling.
Until the rep looks at the game log and sees Crypt Rats repeatedly activated for 0. That's likely to cause some suspicion as there is almost never going to be any other tactical reason to do this besides running out the clock.
Again, there's a difference between merely using a lot of time and deliberately trying to gain an advantage from the fact that there's a game clock. You are assuming a rules violation solely on the amount of time that was left on the clock, and this is simply not a safe assumption.
Which is fine, as long as your definition of "anything within my power" coincides with the tournament rules. When it doesn't, the result is what happened here.
I think the OP is a pretty good case for why that last sentence isn't really true.
It's played in monoblack pauper decks.
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Actually this is covered in a section of the tournament rules as demonstrating an infinite loop once and not having to go through all the motions of it. This is however not in evidence under the current UI for mtgo. Therefore if you timed me out on that I would report you for stalling.
Could someone clarify? Without hitting F6, can you not auto-yield to a particular card when there is mana in the pool?
I am not initmately familiar with the MTGO interface, but from what I'm gathering from others in this thread, it is correct that you cannot auto-yield when there is mana in your mana pool.