So, thus far my first draft cap has helped me a ton, I figure it can't hurt to put another one down. Don't worry, I won't spam the board with my drafts but this is new and is helping alot, so thanks lol...
This draft is my very next draft after the other current thread. I honestly was going to post this one no matter what because it had many unique circumstances in the draft, but it was another successful (and lucky) set of games getting a 3-0 in the swiss so that puts me on a bit of a hot streak lol. This deck seems a bit weak and won game 2 of match 3 through disconnect so still don't really feel all that great about it (I did win game 1 of match 3 however). Nonetheless, here we are:
Pack 1 pick 1:
Jeskai Sage
Hooded Assassin
Pressure Point
Aven Skirmisher
Lotus Path Djinn
Douse in Gloom
Archers of Qarsi
Fierce Invocation
Feral Krushok
Great-Horn Krushok
Mindscour Dragon
--> Elite Scaleguard - well, this was an easy pick and tried to look for signals it would send. Gloom, Djinn, and Sage are next cards to take I assume
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 2:
Rakshasa's Disdain
Gurmag Angler
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Abzan Runemark
Map the Wastes
Collateral Damage
Formless Nurturing
--> Sandsteppe Outcast - easy pick since it meshes so well with scaleguard. Seems like another weak pack without too much to commit to after my card. Double U naga, collateral damage?
Sudden Reclamation
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Scoured Barrens
Pack 1 pick 3:
Ethereal Ambush
Dragon Bell Monk
Enhanced Awareness
Gurmag Angler
--> Goblin Heelcutter - here was my first tough decision of the draft, after my last draft being easier in that regard. Sureshot might be a bomb but it's greatness can be conditional and my deck seemed more aggressive with multiple tap/block effects already. I also said I'd rather be red than black with my fastish picks thus far.
Ambush Krotiq
Gore Swine
Frontier Mastodon
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Orc Sureshot
Sage's Reverie
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 4:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
Write into Being
--> Goblin Heelcutter - right now I feel like I'm living the dream since like my last draft with 2 cloudforms I now have two heelcutters. My tap/block abilities are going to be consistent at this point so I feel like my draft strategy is more set up now. Grim Contest, Skycaptain were choices and if I would have taken the Sureshot last turn it would have made this pack even tougher. (heelcutter/mardu or contest/abzan)
Frost Walker
Grave Strength
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
--> Sandblast - well, I was picking between channel harm and this, and I erred on the side of lower curve, which ended up being in hindsight a good decision in play. Harm has won/saved games however, but I still pick this easy.
Temur Runemark
Mardu Scout
Feral Krushok
Dark Deal
Abzan Kin-Guard
Channel Harm
Pack 1 pick 6:
Abzan Advantage
Refocus
Hooded Assassin
Great-Horn Krushok
Frontier Mastodon
Defiant Ogre
Ainok Guide
Alesha's Vanguard
Break Through the Line
--> Dismal Backwater - somewhat tough decision. I figure I won't play any of these cards ideally, so took the land even though it's a longshot itself. The vanguard was my other choice but I never saw myself going out of my way for splashing a vanguard. Considered ainok guide which if I would have taken it might have ended up changing the whole draft, given some of my later decisions...
Pack 1 pick 7:
Refocus
--> Soul Summons - I look at write into being because I would consider jeskai colors, but stuck with consistency instead for now since I really did have nice red and white cards I figured I'd want to stay R/W/x
Will of the Naga
Ancestral Vengeance
Cunning Strike
Defiant Ogre
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Goblin Boom Keg
Pack 1 pick 8:
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Archers of Qarsi
--> Smoldering Efreet - well after skipping U the last time, an even earlier game blue card seemed wrong.
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Abzan Kin-Guard
Pack 1 pick 9:
Jeskai Sage
Aven Skirmisher
Archers of Qarsi
Great-Horn Krushok
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
--> Rugged Highlands - another pack without great playables other than that pesky early U sage which is looking nice for someone's early U game. Really want to take it but would feel that now the potential G splash for a... loxodon perhaps was best. lol...
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Rakshasa's Disdain
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Pack 1 pick 11:
--> Enhanced Awareness - just making note that this makes me prefer ending up jeskai than mardu since it can help late game in my given situation
Ambush Krotiq
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Sage's Reverie
Pack 2 pick 1:
Bloodfire Expert
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Glacial Stalker
Chief of the Edge
Seeker of the Way
Highspire Mantis
--> Ghostfire Blade - I consider mantis and seeker but obviously this is a great card.
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 2:
Alabaster Kirin
Tormenting Voice
Scoured Barrens
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Monastery Swiftspear
Waterwhirl
--> Mantis Rider - Ughh... Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider till 1 second left. I'm giving up 1 power for a far easier casting cost and no haste... with the ghostblade I really think kirin is the better pick but rankings I looked at have mantis higher in p1p1 situations so figured it's probably still better.
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Awaken the Bear
--> Feat of Resistance - warden seems enticing but I don't have much fixing to start liberally taking U cards. This was my pick anyway probably.
Arrow Storm
Kin-Tree Warden
Swiftwater Cliffs
Disowned Ancestor
Rush of Battle
Bitter Revelation
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Warden of the Eye
Despise
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Smoke Teller
--> Ainok Bond-Kin - nice early game card, meshes with scaleguard obviously. the U/R land reaaally looks nice though.
Bloodfire Expert
Scoured Barrens
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Swiftwater Cliffs
Cancel
Become Immense
Take Up Arms
Plains
Pack 2 pick 5:
Canyon Lurkers
Dismal Backwater
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - I looked at canyon lurkers for awhile, but arrow storm just seems to add some reach and I think I need removal too.
Molting Snakeskin
Scaldkin
Dragon Grip
Ride Down
Island
Pack 2 pick 6:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - looked at winterflame a ton but again the fixing was too dire for an earlier blue card
Rotting Mastodon
Disdainful Stroke
Winterflame
Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 7:
Hooting Mandrills
--> Salt Road Patrol - Another tough one for me. I was really going to take the loxodon until I saw the synergy of patrol with scaleguard. But, Loxodon meshes with Ghostfire blade too. So, in hindsight, I probably change this pick at the time... it ends up looking worse shortly.
Act of Treason
Woolly Loxodon
Singing Bell Strike
Temur Banner
Jungle Hollow
Dragon Grip
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 8:
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Abzan Banner
Temur Charm
--> Take Up Arms
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 9:
Bloodfire Expert
Embodiment of Spring
--> Leaping Master - I'm R/W so leaping master seems better, lower curved and real evasion for stalls and all my combat tricks
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 10:
--> Tormenting Voice - take this to help with early game manafixing, never drew it however.
Embodiment of Spring
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Cancel
Forest
Pack 2 pick 11:
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Rush of Battle - I almost don't even look at singing bell strikes? I know for this deck it's bad, but whats that card rated nowadays?
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Island
Pack 2 pick 12:
--> Bloodfire Expert - really happy I got one
Bloodfire Mentor
Cancel
Plains
Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Siegecraft
Molting Snakeskin
Island
Pack 2 pick 14:
--> Siegecraft
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Mountain
------ KTK ------
Pack 3 pick 1:
Savage Punch
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Archers' Parapet
--> Tranquil Cove - hard but just more disappointing pick. I really want knuckleblade there, but that just destroys any consistency this deck would have. Glacial stalker I looked at a long time too, but felt like I had to take the fixing because of that mantis.
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Glacial Stalker
Ruthless Ripper
Jeskai Elder
Icefeather Aven
Savage Knuckleblade
Plains
Pack 3 pick 2:
Defiant Strike
Act of Treason
Dragonscale Boon
Bloodfell Caves
Wetland Sambar
Mardu Skullhunter
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Kin-Tree Invocation
Warden of the Eye
--> Frontier Bivouac - tough to pick this after passing knuckleblade, but I needed a blue land and warden of the eye is too slow... Leaping master was considered too
Plains
Pack 3 pick 3:
Sagu Archer
Feat of Resistance
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Sultai Scavenger
Force Away
Dutiful Return
Crippling Chill
Weave Fate
Jeskai Charm
Sultai Soothsayer
--> Wooded Foothills - So, this raredraft is even more interesting. I ended up with some fixing for G all of the sudden so really regret not taking the loxodon over saltroad patrol. I wanted Feat of resistance so bad but figured that card isn't worth a free pack in my deck. And hoped for another loxodon.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Defiant Strike
Swarm of Bloodflies
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Swiftwater Cliffs
Whirlwind Adept
Mer-Ek Nightblade
Frontier Bivouac
--> Jeskai Ascendancy - I figured I took the mantis, and I actually had a lot of spells including a take up arms that all of the sudden seemed decent, so took it over more lands and removal. Of course this is the pack with all my fixing.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 5:
Erase
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
Krumar Bond-Kin
Crippling Chill
Jeskai Banner
Rite of the Serpent
Jeskai Charm
--> Witness of the Ages - maybe another jeskai spell but seemed to take the blue splash too far, or maybe a splash for longshot squad (maybe given my counter cards and G sources?). I'm not splashing green for a longshot squad only
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
--> Alabaster Kirin - this was a tough pick for me. Taking this over watcher was hard and probably stupid, but I really liked the vigilance and toughness combo for a deck with ghostfire blade in it. Despite roost being a morph itself. I also saw I was low on 4 drops so figured the curve would be better. Weaponmaster was of course considered and probably the best type of card to splash blue. I wanted the evasion and earlier game instead. Oftentimes you do alot of setting up to get weaponmaster going so didn't want to wait for that.
Krumar Bond-Kin
Rite of the Serpent
Efreet Weaponmaster
Mardu Banner
Watcher of the Roost
Set Adrift
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 8:
--> Summit Prowler
Bloodfire Mentor
Sidisi's Pet
Scaldkin
Mardu Blazebringer
Windstorm
Howl of the Horde
Island
Pack 3 pick 10:
Defiant Strike
--> Act of Treason - is defiant strike a better card for my deck? or is defiant strike even worse than act of treason? I couldn't see myself putting a defiant strike in but maybe the act.
Wetland Sambar
Rush of Battle
Cancel
Plains
Pack 3 pick 11:
Sagu Archer
Shatter
Dutiful Return
--> Weave Fate - went back and forth with this and enhanced awareness all draft.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
Canyon Lurkers
Bloodfire Mentor
--> Whirlwind Adept - wanted this for ascendancy and blade, and got one luckily despite it being a tough card on my manabase.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Jeskai Banner
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
As you can see, my manabase was scary. I ran out of time for deckbuilding and was intending on adding an 18th land island and removing the whirlwind adept, but ran out of time and kept it as is. I feel like I have early game again and have late game reach. I considered not using the jeskai ascendancy in mainboard, but I took the chance on it since I had so many non-creature spells. Not sure how I felt about it but will get to that eventually.
Here is the rundown of my matches. My closer matches I get into more detail, mostly as a way to showcase the cards themselves.
Match 1 game 1 - Jeskai - I pretty much roll. Soul summons turn 2 heelcutter turn 3. Kills my first heelcutter but draw second one next turn. They put out fierce invocation (colorless 4/4) but it can't block so they are at 8 I am at 20. I have mantis rider, heelcutter, horde ambusher, and soul summons out they only have manifest 4/4 so they concede.
Match 1 game 2 - I keep a two land hand with leaping master, outcast, heelcutter, sandblast, ascendancy and adept. Hit land drop for turn 3, so am rolling with leaping master and outcast out with it's flyer. I am up 20-16. Opp puts down rageform turn 4 so is tapped out currently. Turn 5, I start missing landdrops here, but can do a few plays. I have sandblast still, ascendancy, heelcutter dash, witness, and now an expert. I might have gotten a bit greedy playing ascendancy here, but wanted to maximize the value of my sandblast and feel a bit ahead so put it out. I now can only ping with flyer. I attack with all creatures turn 6, hoping to bait rageform and to keep my lead with all my gas left, with the sandblast card draw play from jeskai ascendancy. Collateral damage leaves only my 1/1 flyer left, and am facing a 4/4 manifest the turn after. I finally get 4th land, but nothing truly stabilizing to do. I put out heelcutter, and the turn after they put out highspire mantis. A game I thought I had earlier is now looking tough. Thanks to the ascendancy, my feat of resistance reaches highspire mantis toughness in a blowout there. I am at 6 opp is at 7 and I swing for lethal with 2/2 flyer and 3/2 heelcutter with take up arms ascendancy pump.
match 2 game 1 - Sultai deck - In a game of semi stalled boards but occasional trumps, my alabaster kirin + ghostfire blade rules the stalemate and sandbagging arrow storm and sandblast until necessary. Has incremental growth and big creatures like mandrils and rotting mastodons so some of my damage spells are looking weak.
match 2 game 2 - I mulled to 5 and really should have mulled again since it was a 1 land hand and 4 3+drops, but am on the draw and have heelcutter scaleguard and sandblast. They essentially roll but I hit 5 lands by turn 7 so I was slowing the bleed but lost turn 8 with opp at 18 life.
match 2 game 3 - I feel like I have the dream with 1 mountain 1 bivouac and a horde ambusher, heelcutter, sandblast, and mantis rider. draw soul summons turn 1 and heelcutter turn 2. I kept the pressure continuously with dashing heelcutter this whole time so with an ambusher on board the opp only has a morph and is at 5 life (I am at 20). Turn 6 I think I in hindsight make some play mistakes by stepping off the gas since I didn't want to trade creatures since I can't play my white ones yet, and am still 2 lands away from using arrow storm, so am just playing it safe hoping for arrowstorm since opp is at 5 and haven't seen a counterspell yet.
So, turn 6 I finally hit fourth land, but it's an island. Soul summons, bond-kin, sandblast, and mantis rider are all sitting in my hand. Removes heelcutter 1, next turn I draw bloodfire expert so put that out with my ambusher. Fast-forward to turn 10 stuck at 4 lands no plains with a now definite stalled board, my ambusher, expert, and ghostfire blade heelcutter vs their 3 morphs, rotting mastodon, and feral krushok. I have kirin and whirlwind adept in addition to my previous cards listed stuck in my hand. They start attacking with feral krushok 2 turns in a row while I still wait for a land, and take the damage because I want as many creatures as possible when I finally hit 5th land to ensure raid for my arrow storm, since at this point their board is much bigger and still has 4 cards in their hand. So, turn 12 I finally hit my 5th land and my arrow storm doesn't get countered. My board was empty and they'd swing for lethal the following turn otherwise. Huge game.
Match 3 game 1 - Abzan - I start off with great looking hand with all 3 basics covered and scaleguard, summons, and heelcutter. I get early beats in, but board stalls turn 6 when armament corps drops on their board giving them a frontier mastodon 4/3, highland game, armament corps 5/5, and a snake token from my prior bolstered heelcutter. All of the sudden by turn 7 I am at 12 life and opp is at 15, and I have a 3/4 scaleguard, manifest, and salt road patrol out with 1 counter but tapped for outlasting. Their turn they swing with everyone, I feat my scaleguard here to try to kill the 4/3 mastodon, but they awaken the bear it so it survives. I'm at 7 life now since I let the armament corps go through, and they only had 1 forest untapped and not enough delve for become immense. highland game and my manifest trade. I am at 7 life with scaleguard and patrol out. This is also where the video feed goes out on MTGO ...
What happens is, I sandblast their armament corps, so they are down to just a mastodon and snake, and I have arrow storm in hand. They get an abzan guide, while I get a ghostfire blade and witness of the ages. Ultimately, Opp keeps swinging but can't quite get rid of my scaleguard. Ultimately, my opp ends up with the snake token with no hand left at 23 life (thanks to abzan guide) vs. me with scaleguard and ghostfire blade at 6 life. We just keep swinging and I have arrow storm so I win the race eventually. Opp drew some lands here but kept putting them out so I knew they had no plays. I eventually got my mantis rider too so the race accelerated for me.
match 3 game 2 - Opp never chooses to play or draw so they lose from disconnect. While I wonder if they are on tilt after losing a game that looked like they "should" have won, I also could have won turns prior if I hit lands. So, whatever, I doubt the opp quit or something it was most likely a lucky disconnect.
-----------------
So, this was quite an interesting draft and a ton to learn from. I feel very fortunate to have gone 3-0 because the lack of consistency in the manabase revealed itself numerous times, but the cards I splashed for all definitely helped me win when I saw them, so it seemed worth it. Also, this draft could have ended up very different if I took ainok guide instead of dismal backwater, since I might have gone on the G or U train for some later fate picks. This could have made white a splash for scaleguard, mantis rider and maybe sandblast or outcast. I saw jeskai sages, write into being, bivouacs, loxodon, savage knuckleblade, many cards that could have fit into a better manabased temur color deck in hindsight. This could have backfired however so staying R/W might have been right in the end. Other specifics, like with jeskai ascendancy, are worth discussing, but I'll wait for now.
Have at it. I have a bunch of questions but I will wait for some responses first.
p1p9: dragonrage
p1p12: runemark, no reason to move beyond rw yet
p2p1: mantis over seeker over blade
p2p2: p1p1 situations don't matter anymore, and there was still no need to move beyond rw. i would have taken kirin
p2p5: a very easy ride down
p2p7: act of treason
p2p10: dasher over voice
p3p2: master
p3p7: watcher
once you have a couple of heelcutters, you try really hard to be 2 colors.
Ok thanks... its funny because knowing that about the heelcutters would have made a lot of those picks easier. I probably still would have taken ghostfire blade incorrectly if I was two colors, but my natural inclination was to take the kirin over the mantis, ride down over arrow storm, and leaping master over bivouac, but the whole 3 color thing had me thinking about that. I've just had bad experiences with ride down, but that was awhile ago and during the draft I could tell that this was a "ride down type of deck." The leaping master over bivouac was pretty easy for me too but I was still thinking about the U.
Watcher of the roost would have been easier if kirin wasn't skipped for mantis rider.
I do have a question about ghostfire blade then. Where is that properly rated right this second? I can totally see how it becomes average if you have less than a good amount of face downs, so whats the threshold on that? I'm assuming in fast decks it's better than slow decks right? for P1p1 Khans the frank list has it top 5-6 in top rares, so because of being colorless I figured it still stays strong even contextually later and in fkk, but never really heard anything official about it. I also in the end didn't have very many face down creatures, making it yea in hindsight look pretty bad, but going into the khans packs I guess I wasn't sure how it would play out.
Also, the p1p1 frank list that I mentioned for Rider over Kirin, I "did" weigh that the p1p1 list was obsolete in ways at that point, but my contextual logic was that mantis rider was still better and explosive enough of a card that it was still worth it, which was still incorrect, lol. I'll know in this situation not to take rider over kirin next time, since I really didn't want to but felt like I had to there. But I do have a few follow up questions. So, you say when you get a couple heelcutters you try to stay 2 colors. This is amazing advice, because it's something only if you have a deeper knowledge of the game and cards that you could inherently know just as a rule of thumb. Sure, I look at heelcutter and want to stay red, but I wouldn't say I definitely know to stay 2 color because of projecting how the deck ends up.
So, if there are any big ones, what are other p1 (aka Fate) draft scenarios that lead to obvious decisions of that ilk. For example, if you have 3x grim contests, are you taking rotting mastodons higher in khans? So, this is pretty much referring to when you have a bunch of good commons or uncommons that make an obvious point for the rest of the draft, just like you said about heelcutters. Does 2x pyrotechnics make you want a different type of deck than if you had 1x pyrotechnics and 1 arcbond? I guess a further way to clarify this is, what commons/uncommons point you to obvious archetypes?
Of this ilk, I would "guess" harsh sustenence makes you want to be early game creature heavy, probably b/w warriors, and hoping you end up with ponyback brigades, but do I say that with confidence? Not really since I don't have much experience in anything other than khans limited. Thanks for any and all help.
Deck and choices seem fine, although it's not the type of deck I play (personal preference) and there unfortunately aren't any top notch cards (why do I see bomb Elite Scaleguard as P1P1 but not in the deck?) though that is just the luck of the draw (Mantis Rider in my view is not a bomb when blue is a splash like this, though it's still good). I don't know about the Jeskai Ascendancy here on the splash, I probably would not have played it. I agree with Calavera_ on the ride down choice for this aggressive deck, and I like Watcher more than Kirin for this deck, but I like your other picks.
Pack 1 pick 3: Orc Sureshot over Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (I'malready thinking that we'll end up in Mardu or Azban, so BW cards are 'safer' then R cards, it's less of a commitment to a colour)
Pack 1 pick 4: Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (so if you are already locked into Mardu you have higher quality cards. I am staying more open)
Pack 1 pick 6: Alesha's Vanguard over Hooded Assassin ove Dismal Backwater (your red deck is shaping up to be aggressive, and I don't like going 4 colours in such decks)
So after pack 1 you are solidly in RW, and I would be leaning Mardu, since that's a more aggressive wedge.
Pack 2 pick 2: Mantis Rider (ok, clearly shifting over into blue as a splash now)
Pack 2 pick 10: Valley Dasher over Tormenting Voice (if you can have a tokens/aggro theme, this is decent)
Pack 3 pick 7: Watcher of the Roost over Alabaster Kirin
Pack 3 pick 9: Swift Kick over Firehoof Cavalry
Pack 3 pick 10: Defiant Strike over Act of Treason (cantrips are great)
So all in all a pretty solid draft. I cautioned you to stay open in BW, but it turns out your WR cards left you perfectly positioned to go into Jeskai. Well done. Yo drafted a better deck than I think I would have.
I do have a question about ghostfire blade then. Where is that properly rated right this second? I can totally see how it becomes average if you have less than a good amount of face downs, so whats the threshold on that? I'm assuming in fast decks it's better than slow decks right? for P1p1 Khans the frank list has it top 5-6 in top rares, so because of being colorless I figured it still stays strong even contextually later and in fkk, but never really heard anything official about it. I also in the end didn't have very many face down creatures, making it yea in hindsight look pretty bad, but going into the khans packs I guess I wasn't sure how it would play out.
ghostfire blade is worse in fkk than it was in khans, due to one less packs of morphs to choose from. that said, it was never really a card that demanded you to have a lot of morphs to be useful anyway. frank probably gave it a high p1p1 ranking because you know you will always play it when you draft it, and that's not nothing. once you know your colors, its value drops a lot.
Also, the p1p1 frank list that I mentioned for Rider over Kirin, I "did" weigh that the p1p1 list was obsolete in ways at that point, but my contextual logic was that mantis rider was still better and explosive enough of a card that it was still worth it, which was still incorrect, lol. I'll know in this situation not to take rider over kirin next time, since I really didn't want to but felt like I had to there. But I do have a few follow up questions. So, you say when you get a couple heelcutters you try to stay 2 colors. This is amazing advice, because it's something only if you have a deeper knowledge of the game and cards that you could inherently know just as a rule of thumb. Sure, I look at heelcutter and want to stay red, but I wouldn't say I definitely know to stay 2 color because of projecting how the deck ends up.
the thing about mantis vs kirin is that it's not just about those 2 cards. if you take the mantis you have to find at least 3 sources of blue mana, which means taking fixing over good playables in your main colors later on. if you're solidly in two colors and your deck has a decent aggro shell, you're almost always better off taking less exciting cards over off-color bombs. especially in this format, since Rx aggro with multiple heelcutters is one of the best decks you can assemble.
So, if there are any big ones, what are other p1 (aka Fate) draft scenarios that lead to obvious decisions of that ilk. For example, if you have 3x grim contests, are you taking rotting mastodons higher in khans? So, this is pretty much referring to when you have a bunch of good commons or uncommons that make an obvious point for the rest of the draft, just like you said about heelcutters. Does 2x pyrotechnics make you want a different type of deck than if you had 1x pyrotechnics and 1 arcbond? I guess a further way to clarify this is, what commons/uncommons point you to obvious archetypes?
Of this ilk, I would "guess" harsh sustenence makes you want to be early game creature heavy, probably b/w warriors, and hoping you end up with ponyback brigades, but do I say that with confidence? Not really since I don't have much experience in anything other than khans limited. Thanks for any and all help.
i actually think heelcutter is the only fate reforged card worth building your deck around. there are not a lot of those in this format, especially now that the secret plans deck has bitten the dust. grim contest is always good in bg decks, so you don't have to draft bad cards like rotting mastodon at all, but you might want to pick archer's parapet earlier than usual. harsh sustenance prefers you to have some token generators, but it's decent without them too.
In my most recent draft a couple of nights ago I had 3 Grim Contests so I prioritized drafting Archer's Parapet higher than I would normally (it is a card I somewhat like to have anyway), but I didn't go too far with that and I even ended up playing Alpine Grizzly over Rotting Mastodon because I already had enough ground defense.
I am a proponent of making some modifications of draft strategies around early picks as long as they are picks which will make the deck and as long as I am not playing any sub-standard cards just on the off chance that I have a specific card already in play or in my hand.
Deck and choices seem fine, although it's not the type of deck I play (personal preference) and there unfortunately aren't any top notch cards (why do I see bomb Elite Scaleguard as P1P1 but not in the deck?) though that is just the luck of the draw (Mantis Rider in my view is not a bomb when blue is a splash like this, though it's still good). I don't know about the Jeskai Ascendancy here on the splash, I probably would not have played it. I agree with Calavera_ on the ride down choice for this aggressive deck, and I like Watcher more than Kirin for this deck, but I like your other picks.
Sorry about the scaleguard thing, I am *pretty* sure the card that shouldn't be in there is the enhanced awareness, and my reasoning for that was if I hit my U source I get my card draw without needing to dig for it. There isn't a way to have your final decklist is there?
And yea, Jeskai ascendancy did actually win me a race, but it was also sitting in my hand a few times, although generally it was because I had other choices I suppose. I think I take another choice from that pack next time in the same situation.
Pack 1 pick 3: Orc Sureshot over Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (I'malready thinking that we'll end up in Mardu or Azban, so BW cards are 'safer' then R cards, it's less of a commitment to a colour) So you value dragon bell *somewhat* highly? I can see why you take it over heelcutter here based on colors and archetypes of course, but based on everything I've seen it's either a mediocre card or slightly above, and is that worth taking in relation to stronger commons in packs 2 and 3 if I am essentially committing to white as my main color thus using mostly white creatures? Ultimately, I am just asking is dragon bell monk good enough to make a deck consistently if you are primary white? And of course, I am not questioning your knowledge, I just want to hear the reasons, because whenever I look at dragon bell I always say "good card I like it" but in action it seems to trade with smaller creatures too often without a lot of upside.
Pack 1 pick 4: Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (so if you are already locked into Mardu you have higher quality cards. I am staying more open) Here contextually with either orc or dragon bell as previous pick I would probably do the same
Pack 1 pick 6: Alesha's Vanguard over Hooded Assassin over Dismal Backwater (your red deck is shaping up to be aggressive, and I don't like going 4 colours in such decks) taking a neither? color land seems very wrong here. I've seen places say Vanguard is bad, but I think for my deck it wouldn't have been bad and potentially playable. And hooded assassin, yea, I hope to not play it, but it's even better still.
So after pack 1 you are solidly in RW, and I would be leaning Mardu, since that's a more aggressive wedge.
Pack 2 pick 2: Mantis Rider (ok, clearly shifting over into blue as a splash now)
Pack 2 pick 10: Valley Dasher over Tormenting Voice (if you can have a tokens/aggro theme, this is decent) I went against my instinct here and of any deck dasher fits mine great. I think for a conditional card like this I need to in real time go through an archetype checklist for choosing for or against a card like this. 2 heelcutters and R/W sounds like it equals valley dasher. If I don't take that mantis rider, I definitely take dasher here.
Pack 3 pick 7: Watcher of the Roost over Alabaster Kirin another chain reaction failure
Pack 3 pick 9: Swift Kick over Firehoof Cavalry I figured if I wanted to go super turbo speed I might use these, and they at least weren't conditional like valley dashers, just really bad instead lol
Pack 3 pick 10: Defiant Strike over Act of Treason (cantrips are great) I've always heard mixed things about defiant strike in limited. I suppose in my deck at this point it looks decent considering the ascendancy, aggro, and need for card draw. big mistake
So all in all a pretty solid draft. I cautioned you to stay open in BW, but it turns out your WR cards left you perfectly positioned to go into Jeskai. Well done. Yo drafted a better deck than I think I would have.
Whirlwind Adept is terrible and should be Rush of Battle in your deck. I used to inherently like whirlwind adept, and then found out the card was bad, but I've heard LSV say he likes whirlwind adept alot, and seems to make his decks, so I got sucked back into it again. Also the prowess/ascendancy nonsense. If I had better creature quality this probably would have been cut since my blue splash was annoying me
In match 2 you had problems with not enough mana and not enough fixing. I think that's a function of the draft.
the thing about mantis vs kirin is that it's not just about those 2 cards. if you take the mantis you have to find at least 3 sources of blue mana, which means taking fixing over good playables in your main colors later on. if you're solidly in two colors and your deck has a decent aggro shell, you're almost always better off taking less exciting cards over off-color bombs. especially in this format, since Rx aggro with multiple heelcutters is one of the best decks you can assemble.
------------------
i actually think heelcutter is the only fate reforged card worth building your deck around. there are not a lot of those in this format, especially now that the secret plans deck has bitten the dust. grim contest is always good in bg decks, so you don't have to draft bad cards like rotting mastodon at all, but you might want to pick archer's parapet earlier than usual. harsh sustenance prefers you to have some token generators, but it's decent without them too.
Thanks, see, breaking down the actual draft logistics about that card make it seem very obvious not to take mantis rider there. Realizing I had to essentially, if my manabase actually worked out, having to sacrifice 2-3 early picks for lands over playables makes all too much sense, and I'd never trade 3 early land picks over 1 power and haste ever again.
In my most recent draft a couple of nights ago I had 3 Grim Contests so I prioritized drafting Archer's Parapet higher than I would normally (it is a card I somewhat like to have anyway), but I didn't go too far with that and I even ended up playing Alpine Grizzly over Rotting Mastodon because I already had enough ground defense.
I am a proponent of making some modifications of draft strategies around early picks as long as they are picks which will make the deck and as long as I am not playing any sub-standard cards just on the off chance that I have a specific card already in play or in my hand.
Cool thanks, although I do want to mention that my mastodon reference was mostly because it is a very obvious big toughness creature, to make the example clear. I wouldn't start taking mastodons p2p1 or anything haha... but, this makes me really wish I could see some sort of all comprehensive ranking of all cards in the format, pitting khans and fate cards in the same rank, just to see where power levels lie. I tried looking into it on my own, using the Ugin's construct rankings in the CFB fate reforged draft order to cross reference with khans, but didn't really have much luck. You can see what cards are above and below an arbitrary benchmark in ugin's construct in CFB's color rankings for fate reforged, and it would be interesting to see where certain cards like parapet or a mastodon appear now.
So you value dragon bell *somewhat* highly? I can see why you take it over heelcutter here based on colors and archetypes of course, but based on everything I've seen it's either a mediocre card or slightly above, and is that worth taking in relation to stronger commons in packs 2 and 3 if I am essentially committing to white as my main color thus using mostly white creatures? Ultimately, I am just asking is dragon bell monk good enough to make a deck consistently if you are primary white? And of course, I am not questioning your knowledge, I just want to hear the reasons, because whenever I look at dragon bell I always say "good card I like it" but in action it seems to trade with smaller creatures too often without a lot of upside.
Yes, I think it's a slightly above average card that will always make the cut in my white decks. Because the Fate Reforged packs are so weak, I'm generally not trying to take high quality playables with the pack. I prefer to cut a colour (white in this case) and see what the open colours are.
This draft is my very next draft after the other current thread. I honestly was going to post this one no matter what because it had many unique circumstances in the draft, but it was another successful (and lucky) set of games getting a 3-0 in the swiss so that puts me on a bit of a hot streak lol. This deck seems a bit weak and won game 2 of match 3 through disconnect so still don't really feel all that great about it (I did win game 1 of match 3 however). Nonetheless, here we are:
Event #: 8000259
Time: 2/19/2015 12:12:14 AM
Players:
CoachMurfy
Slayde187
--> KustomPaintaz
slapazine
Str8sh0t714
moitamu
zyzzz
xcnhikari
------ FRF ------
Pack 1 pick 1:
Jeskai Sage
Hooded Assassin
Pressure Point
Aven Skirmisher
Lotus Path Djinn
Douse in Gloom
Archers of Qarsi
Fierce Invocation
Feral Krushok
Great-Horn Krushok
Mindscour Dragon
--> Elite Scaleguard - well, this was an easy pick and tried to look for signals it would send. Gloom, Djinn, and Sage are next cards to take I assume
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 2:
Rakshasa's Disdain
Gurmag Angler
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Abzan Runemark
Map the Wastes
Collateral Damage
Formless Nurturing
--> Sandsteppe Outcast - easy pick since it meshes so well with scaleguard. Seems like another weak pack without too much to commit to after my card. Double U naga, collateral damage?
Sudden Reclamation
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Scoured Barrens
Pack 1 pick 3:
Ethereal Ambush
Dragon Bell Monk
Enhanced Awareness
Gurmag Angler
--> Goblin Heelcutter - here was my first tough decision of the draft, after my last draft being easier in that regard. Sureshot might be a bomb but it's greatness can be conditional and my deck seemed more aggressive with multiple tap/block effects already. I also said I'd rather be red than black with my fastish picks thus far.
Ambush Krotiq
Gore Swine
Frontier Mastodon
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Orc Sureshot
Sage's Reverie
Rugged Highlands
Pack 1 pick 4:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
Write into Being
--> Goblin Heelcutter - right now I feel like I'm living the dream since like my last draft with 2 cloudforms I now have two heelcutters. My tap/block abilities are going to be consistent at this point so I feel like my draft strategy is more set up now. Grim Contest, Skycaptain were choices and if I would have taken the Sureshot last turn it would have made this pack even tougher. (heelcutter/mardu or contest/abzan)
Frost Walker
Grave Strength
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
--> Sandblast - well, I was picking between channel harm and this, and I erred on the side of lower curve, which ended up being in hindsight a good decision in play. Harm has won/saved games however, but I still pick this easy.
Temur Runemark
Mardu Scout
Feral Krushok
Dark Deal
Abzan Kin-Guard
Channel Harm
Pack 1 pick 6:
Abzan Advantage
Refocus
Hooded Assassin
Great-Horn Krushok
Frontier Mastodon
Defiant Ogre
Ainok Guide
Alesha's Vanguard
Break Through the Line
--> Dismal Backwater - somewhat tough decision. I figure I won't play any of these cards ideally, so took the land even though it's a longshot itself. The vanguard was my other choice but I never saw myself going out of my way for splashing a vanguard. Considered ainok guide which if I would have taken it might have ended up changing the whole draft, given some of my later decisions...
Pack 1 pick 7:
Refocus
--> Soul Summons - I look at write into being because I would consider jeskai colors, but stuck with consistency instead for now since I really did have nice red and white cards I figured I'd want to stay R/W/x
Will of the Naga
Ancestral Vengeance
Cunning Strike
Defiant Ogre
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Goblin Boom Keg
Pack 1 pick 8:
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Archers of Qarsi
--> Smoldering Efreet - well after skipping U the last time, an even earlier game blue card seemed wrong.
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Abzan Kin-Guard
Pack 1 pick 9:
Jeskai Sage
Aven Skirmisher
Archers of Qarsi
Great-Horn Krushok
Dragonrage
Rally the Ancestors
--> Rugged Highlands - another pack without great playables other than that pesky early U sage which is looking nice for someone's early U game. Really want to take it but would feel that now the potential G splash for a... loxodon perhaps was best. lol...
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Rakshasa's Disdain
Abzan Advantage
Will of the Naga
Sultai Runemark
Neutralizing Blast
Friendly Fire
Pack 1 pick 11:
--> Enhanced Awareness - just making note that this makes me prefer ending up jeskai than mardu since it can help late game in my given situation
Ambush Krotiq
Alesha's Vanguard
Defiant Ogre
Sage's Reverie
Pack 1 pick 12:
--> Enhanced Awareness
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
Grave Strength
Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Pressure Point
Temur Runemark
Dark Deal
Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Great-Horn Krushok
Defiant Ogre
Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Goblin Boom Keg
------ KTK ------
Pack 2 pick 1:
Bloodfire Expert
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Glacial Stalker
Chief of the Edge
Seeker of the Way
Highspire Mantis
--> Ghostfire Blade - I consider mantis and seeker but obviously this is a great card.
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 2:
Alabaster Kirin
Tormenting Voice
Scoured Barrens
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Monastery Swiftspear
Waterwhirl
--> Mantis Rider - Ughh... Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider/Kirin/Rider till 1 second left. I'm giving up 1 power for a far easier casting cost and no haste... with the ghostblade I really think kirin is the better pick but rankings I looked at have mantis higher in p1p1 situations so figured it's probably still better.
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Awaken the Bear
--> Feat of Resistance - warden seems enticing but I don't have much fixing to start liberally taking U cards. This was my pick anyway probably.
Arrow Storm
Kin-Tree Warden
Swiftwater Cliffs
Disowned Ancestor
Rush of Battle
Bitter Revelation
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Warden of the Eye
Despise
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Smoke Teller
--> Ainok Bond-Kin - nice early game card, meshes with scaleguard obviously. the U/R land reaaally looks nice though.
Bloodfire Expert
Scoured Barrens
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Swiftwater Cliffs
Cancel
Become Immense
Take Up Arms
Plains
Pack 2 pick 5:
Canyon Lurkers
Dismal Backwater
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - I looked at canyon lurkers for awhile, but arrow storm just seems to add some reach and I think I need removal too.
Molting Snakeskin
Scaldkin
Dragon Grip
Ride Down
Island
Pack 2 pick 6:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - looked at winterflame a ton but again the fixing was too dire for an earlier blue card
Rotting Mastodon
Disdainful Stroke
Winterflame
Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 7:
Hooting Mandrills
--> Salt Road Patrol - Another tough one for me. I was really going to take the loxodon until I saw the synergy of patrol with scaleguard. But, Loxodon meshes with Ghostfire blade too. So, in hindsight, I probably change this pick at the time... it ends up looking worse shortly.
Act of Treason
Woolly Loxodon
Singing Bell Strike
Temur Banner
Jungle Hollow
Dragon Grip
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 8:
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Abzan Banner
Temur Charm
--> Take Up Arms
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 9:
Bloodfire Expert
Embodiment of Spring
--> Leaping Master - I'm R/W so leaping master seems better, lower curved and real evasion for stalls and all my combat tricks
Scout the Borders
Bloodfell Caves
Sidisi's Pet
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 10:
--> Tormenting Voice - take this to help with early game manafixing, never drew it however.
Embodiment of Spring
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
Cancel
Forest
Pack 2 pick 11:
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Rush of Battle - I almost don't even look at singing bell strikes? I know for this deck it's bad, but whats that card rated nowadays?
Singing Bell Strike
Briber's Purse
Island
Pack 2 pick 12:
--> Bloodfire Expert - really happy I got one
Bloodfire Mentor
Cancel
Plains
Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Siegecraft
Molting Snakeskin
Island
Pack 2 pick 14:
--> Siegecraft
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Mountain
------ KTK ------
Pack 3 pick 1:
Savage Punch
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Archers' Parapet
--> Tranquil Cove - hard but just more disappointing pick. I really want knuckleblade there, but that just destroys any consistency this deck would have. Glacial stalker I looked at a long time too, but felt like I had to take the fixing because of that mantis.
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Glacial Stalker
Ruthless Ripper
Jeskai Elder
Icefeather Aven
Savage Knuckleblade
Plains
Pack 3 pick 2:
Defiant Strike
Act of Treason
Dragonscale Boon
Bloodfell Caves
Wetland Sambar
Mardu Skullhunter
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Bitter Revelation
Cancel
Kin-Tree Invocation
Warden of the Eye
--> Frontier Bivouac - tough to pick this after passing knuckleblade, but I needed a blue land and warden of the eye is too slow... Leaping master was considered too
Plains
Pack 3 pick 3:
Sagu Archer
Feat of Resistance
Shatter
Awaken the Bear
Sultai Scavenger
Force Away
Dutiful Return
Crippling Chill
Weave Fate
Jeskai Charm
Sultai Soothsayer
--> Wooded Foothills - So, this raredraft is even more interesting. I ended up with some fixing for G all of the sudden so really regret not taking the loxodon over saltroad patrol. I wanted Feat of resistance so bad but figured that card isn't worth a free pack in my deck. And hoped for another loxodon.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Defiant Strike
Swarm of Bloodflies
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Swiftwater Cliffs
Whirlwind Adept
Mer-Ek Nightblade
Frontier Bivouac
--> Jeskai Ascendancy - I figured I took the mantis, and I actually had a lot of spells including a take up arms that all of the sudden seemed decent, so took it over more lands and removal. Of course this is the pack with all my fixing.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 5:
Erase
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
Krumar Bond-Kin
Crippling Chill
Jeskai Banner
Rite of the Serpent
Jeskai Charm
--> Witness of the Ages - maybe another jeskai spell but seemed to take the blue splash too far, or maybe a splash for longshot squad (maybe given my counter cards and G sources?). I'm not splashing green for a longshot squad only
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 6:
Summit Prowler
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Taigam's Scheming
Mardu Blazebringer
Brave the Sands
--> Horde Ambusher
Island
Pack 3 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
--> Alabaster Kirin - this was a tough pick for me. Taking this over watcher was hard and probably stupid, but I really liked the vigilance and toughness combo for a deck with ghostfire blade in it. Despite roost being a morph itself. I also saw I was low on 4 drops so figured the curve would be better. Weaponmaster was of course considered and probably the best type of card to splash blue. I wanted the evasion and earlier game instead. Oftentimes you do alot of setting up to get weaponmaster going so didn't want to wait for that.
Krumar Bond-Kin
Rite of the Serpent
Efreet Weaponmaster
Mardu Banner
Watcher of the Roost
Set Adrift
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 8:
--> Summit Prowler
Bloodfire Mentor
Sidisi's Pet
Scaldkin
Mardu Blazebringer
Windstorm
Howl of the Horde
Island
Pack 3 pick 9:
Swift Kick
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
--> Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Jeskai Elder
Plains
Pack 3 pick 10:
Defiant Strike
--> Act of Treason - is defiant strike a better card for my deck? or is defiant strike even worse than act of treason? I couldn't see myself putting a defiant strike in but maybe the act.
Wetland Sambar
Rush of Battle
Cancel
Plains
Pack 3 pick 11:
Sagu Archer
Shatter
Dutiful Return
--> Weave Fate - went back and forth with this and enhanced awareness all draft.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
Canyon Lurkers
Bloodfire Mentor
--> Whirlwind Adept - wanted this for ascendancy and blade, and got one luckily despite it being a tough card on my manabase.
Forest
Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Jeskai Banner
Retribution of the Ancients
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 14:
--> Firehoof Cavalry
Island
Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Swamp
-----------------------
So, my deck ended up:
1 horde ambusher
1 leaping master
1 soul summons
1 ainok bond-kin
1 sandsteppe outcast
2 goblin heelcutter
1 bloodfire expert
1 mantis rider
1 witness of the ages
1 salt road patrol
1 summit prowler
1 alabaster kirin
1 take up arms
1 whirlwind adept
1 feat of resistance
1 tormenting voice
1 sandblast
2 arrow storm
1 jeskai ascendancy
1 ghostfire blade
1 enhanced awareness
1 weave fate
1 smoldering efreet
1 rakshasha's disdain
1 rush of battle
1 act of treason
Lands (17):
1 tranquil cove
1 frontier bivouac
2 island
7 mountain
6 plains
curve counting creature spells as creatures:
1 cmc: s
2 cmc: ccccss
3 cmc: ccccccss
4 cmc: ccc
5 cmc: ccsss
As you can see, my manabase was scary. I ran out of time for deckbuilding and was intending on adding an 18th land island and removing the whirlwind adept, but ran out of time and kept it as is. I feel like I have early game again and have late game reach. I considered not using the jeskai ascendancy in mainboard, but I took the chance on it since I had so many non-creature spells. Not sure how I felt about it but will get to that eventually.
Here is the rundown of my matches. My closer matches I get into more detail, mostly as a way to showcase the cards themselves.
Match 1 game 1 - Jeskai - I pretty much roll. Soul summons turn 2 heelcutter turn 3. Kills my first heelcutter but draw second one next turn. They put out fierce invocation (colorless 4/4) but it can't block so they are at 8 I am at 20. I have mantis rider, heelcutter, horde ambusher, and soul summons out they only have manifest 4/4 so they concede.
Match 1 game 2 - I keep a two land hand with leaping master, outcast, heelcutter, sandblast, ascendancy and adept. Hit land drop for turn 3, so am rolling with leaping master and outcast out with it's flyer. I am up 20-16. Opp puts down rageform turn 4 so is tapped out currently. Turn 5, I start missing landdrops here, but can do a few plays. I have sandblast still, ascendancy, heelcutter dash, witness, and now an expert. I might have gotten a bit greedy playing ascendancy here, but wanted to maximize the value of my sandblast and feel a bit ahead so put it out. I now can only ping with flyer. I attack with all creatures turn 6, hoping to bait rageform and to keep my lead with all my gas left, with the sandblast card draw play from jeskai ascendancy. Collateral damage leaves only my 1/1 flyer left, and am facing a 4/4 manifest the turn after. I finally get 4th land, but nothing truly stabilizing to do. I put out heelcutter, and the turn after they put out highspire mantis. A game I thought I had earlier is now looking tough. Thanks to the ascendancy, my feat of resistance reaches highspire mantis toughness in a blowout there. I am at 6 opp is at 7 and I swing for lethal with 2/2 flyer and 3/2 heelcutter with take up arms ascendancy pump.
match 2 game 1 - Sultai deck - In a game of semi stalled boards but occasional trumps, my alabaster kirin + ghostfire blade rules the stalemate and sandbagging arrow storm and sandblast until necessary. Has incremental growth and big creatures like mandrils and rotting mastodons so some of my damage spells are looking weak.
match 2 game 2 - I mulled to 5 and really should have mulled again since it was a 1 land hand and 4 3+drops, but am on the draw and have heelcutter scaleguard and sandblast. They essentially roll but I hit 5 lands by turn 7 so I was slowing the bleed but lost turn 8 with opp at 18 life.
match 2 game 3 - I feel like I have the dream with 1 mountain 1 bivouac and a horde ambusher, heelcutter, sandblast, and mantis rider. draw soul summons turn 1 and heelcutter turn 2. I kept the pressure continuously with dashing heelcutter this whole time so with an ambusher on board the opp only has a morph and is at 5 life (I am at 20). Turn 6 I think I in hindsight make some play mistakes by stepping off the gas since I didn't want to trade creatures since I can't play my white ones yet, and am still 2 lands away from using arrow storm, so am just playing it safe hoping for arrowstorm since opp is at 5 and haven't seen a counterspell yet.
So, turn 6 I finally hit fourth land, but it's an island. Soul summons, bond-kin, sandblast, and mantis rider are all sitting in my hand. Removes heelcutter 1, next turn I draw bloodfire expert so put that out with my ambusher. Fast-forward to turn 10 stuck at 4 lands no plains with a now definite stalled board, my ambusher, expert, and ghostfire blade heelcutter vs their 3 morphs, rotting mastodon, and feral krushok. I have kirin and whirlwind adept in addition to my previous cards listed stuck in my hand. They start attacking with feral krushok 2 turns in a row while I still wait for a land, and take the damage because I want as many creatures as possible when I finally hit 5th land to ensure raid for my arrow storm, since at this point their board is much bigger and still has 4 cards in their hand. So, turn 12 I finally hit my 5th land and my arrow storm doesn't get countered. My board was empty and they'd swing for lethal the following turn otherwise. Huge game.
Match 3 game 1 - Abzan - I start off with great looking hand with all 3 basics covered and scaleguard, summons, and heelcutter. I get early beats in, but board stalls turn 6 when armament corps drops on their board giving them a frontier mastodon 4/3, highland game, armament corps 5/5, and a snake token from my prior bolstered heelcutter. All of the sudden by turn 7 I am at 12 life and opp is at 15, and I have a 3/4 scaleguard, manifest, and salt road patrol out with 1 counter but tapped for outlasting. Their turn they swing with everyone, I feat my scaleguard here to try to kill the 4/3 mastodon, but they awaken the bear it so it survives. I'm at 7 life now since I let the armament corps go through, and they only had 1 forest untapped and not enough delve for become immense. highland game and my manifest trade. I am at 7 life with scaleguard and patrol out. This is also where the video feed goes out on MTGO ...
What happens is, I sandblast their armament corps, so they are down to just a mastodon and snake, and I have arrow storm in hand. They get an abzan guide, while I get a ghostfire blade and witness of the ages. Ultimately, Opp keeps swinging but can't quite get rid of my scaleguard. Ultimately, my opp ends up with the snake token with no hand left at 23 life (thanks to abzan guide) vs. me with scaleguard and ghostfire blade at 6 life. We just keep swinging and I have arrow storm so I win the race eventually. Opp drew some lands here but kept putting them out so I knew they had no plays. I eventually got my mantis rider too so the race accelerated for me.
match 3 game 2 - Opp never chooses to play or draw so they lose from disconnect. While I wonder if they are on tilt after losing a game that looked like they "should" have won, I also could have won turns prior if I hit lands. So, whatever, I doubt the opp quit or something it was most likely a lucky disconnect.
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So, this was quite an interesting draft and a ton to learn from. I feel very fortunate to have gone 3-0 because the lack of consistency in the manabase revealed itself numerous times, but the cards I splashed for all definitely helped me win when I saw them, so it seemed worth it. Also, this draft could have ended up very different if I took ainok guide instead of dismal backwater, since I might have gone on the G or U train for some later fate picks. This could have made white a splash for scaleguard, mantis rider and maybe sandblast or outcast. I saw jeskai sages, write into being, bivouacs, loxodon, savage knuckleblade, many cards that could have fit into a better manabased temur color deck in hindsight. This could have backfired however so staying R/W might have been right in the end. Other specifics, like with jeskai ascendancy, are worth discussing, but I'll wait for now.
Have at it. I have a bunch of questions but I will wait for some responses first.
p1p12: runemark, no reason to move beyond rw yet
p2p1: mantis over seeker over blade
p2p2: p1p1 situations don't matter anymore, and there was still no need to move beyond rw. i would have taken kirin
p2p5: a very easy ride down
p2p7: act of treason
p2p10: dasher over voice
p3p2: master
p3p7: watcher
once you have a couple of heelcutters, you try really hard to be 2 colors.
Watcher of the roost would have been easier if kirin wasn't skipped for mantis rider.
I do have a question about ghostfire blade then. Where is that properly rated right this second? I can totally see how it becomes average if you have less than a good amount of face downs, so whats the threshold on that? I'm assuming in fast decks it's better than slow decks right? for P1p1 Khans the frank list has it top 5-6 in top rares, so because of being colorless I figured it still stays strong even contextually later and in fkk, but never really heard anything official about it. I also in the end didn't have very many face down creatures, making it yea in hindsight look pretty bad, but going into the khans packs I guess I wasn't sure how it would play out.
Also, the p1p1 frank list that I mentioned for Rider over Kirin, I "did" weigh that the p1p1 list was obsolete in ways at that point, but my contextual logic was that mantis rider was still better and explosive enough of a card that it was still worth it, which was still incorrect, lol. I'll know in this situation not to take rider over kirin next time, since I really didn't want to but felt like I had to there. But I do have a few follow up questions. So, you say when you get a couple heelcutters you try to stay 2 colors. This is amazing advice, because it's something only if you have a deeper knowledge of the game and cards that you could inherently know just as a rule of thumb. Sure, I look at heelcutter and want to stay red, but I wouldn't say I definitely know to stay 2 color because of projecting how the deck ends up.
So, if there are any big ones, what are other p1 (aka Fate) draft scenarios that lead to obvious decisions of that ilk. For example, if you have 3x grim contests, are you taking rotting mastodons higher in khans? So, this is pretty much referring to when you have a bunch of good commons or uncommons that make an obvious point for the rest of the draft, just like you said about heelcutters. Does 2x pyrotechnics make you want a different type of deck than if you had 1x pyrotechnics and 1 arcbond? I guess a further way to clarify this is, what commons/uncommons point you to obvious archetypes?
Of this ilk, I would "guess" harsh sustenence makes you want to be early game creature heavy, probably b/w warriors, and hoping you end up with ponyback brigades, but do I say that with confidence? Not really since I don't have much experience in anything other than khans limited. Thanks for any and all help.
Pack 1 pick 4: Dragon Bell Monk over Goblin Heelcutter (so if you are already locked into Mardu you have higher quality cards. I am staying more open)
Pack 1 pick 6: Alesha's Vanguard over Hooded Assassin ove Dismal Backwater (your red deck is shaping up to be aggressive, and I don't like going 4 colours in such decks)
So after pack 1 you are solidly in RW, and I would be leaning Mardu, since that's a more aggressive wedge.
Pack 2 pick 2: Mantis Rider (ok, clearly shifting over into blue as a splash now)
Pack 2 pick 10: Valley Dasher over Tormenting Voice (if you can have a tokens/aggro theme, this is decent)
Pack 3 pick 7: Watcher of the Roost over Alabaster Kirin
Pack 3 pick 9: Swift Kick over Firehoof Cavalry
Pack 3 pick 10: Defiant Strike over Act of Treason (cantrips are great)
So all in all a pretty solid draft. I cautioned you to stay open in BW, but it turns out your WR cards left you perfectly positioned to go into Jeskai. Well done. Yo drafted a better deck than I think I would have.
Whirlwind Adept is terrible and should be Rush of Battle in your deck.
In match 2 you had problems with not enough mana and not enough fixing. I think that's a function of the draft.
Congrats on your win.
ghostfire blade is worse in fkk than it was in khans, due to one less packs of morphs to choose from. that said, it was never really a card that demanded you to have a lot of morphs to be useful anyway. frank probably gave it a high p1p1 ranking because you know you will always play it when you draft it, and that's not nothing. once you know your colors, its value drops a lot.
the thing about mantis vs kirin is that it's not just about those 2 cards. if you take the mantis you have to find at least 3 sources of blue mana, which means taking fixing over good playables in your main colors later on. if you're solidly in two colors and your deck has a decent aggro shell, you're almost always better off taking less exciting cards over off-color bombs. especially in this format, since Rx aggro with multiple heelcutters is one of the best decks you can assemble.
i actually think heelcutter is the only fate reforged card worth building your deck around. there are not a lot of those in this format, especially now that the secret plans deck has bitten the dust. grim contest is always good in bg decks, so you don't have to draft bad cards like rotting mastodon at all, but you might want to pick archer's parapet earlier than usual. harsh sustenance prefers you to have some token generators, but it's decent without them too.
I am a proponent of making some modifications of draft strategies around early picks as long as they are picks which will make the deck and as long as I am not playing any sub-standard cards just on the off chance that I have a specific card already in play or in my hand.
Sorry about the scaleguard thing, I am *pretty* sure the card that shouldn't be in there is the enhanced awareness, and my reasoning for that was if I hit my U source I get my card draw without needing to dig for it. There isn't a way to have your final decklist is there?
And yea, Jeskai ascendancy did actually win me a race, but it was also sitting in my hand a few times, although generally it was because I had other choices I suppose. I think I take another choice from that pack next time in the same situation.
Magicmerl, responses in bold
Thanks, see, breaking down the actual draft logistics about that card make it seem very obvious not to take mantis rider there. Realizing I had to essentially, if my manabase actually worked out, having to sacrifice 2-3 early picks for lands over playables makes all too much sense, and I'd never trade 3 early land picks over 1 power and haste ever again.
and -
Cool thanks, although I do want to mention that my mastodon reference was mostly because it is a very obvious big toughness creature, to make the example clear. I wouldn't start taking mastodons p2p1 or anything haha... but, this makes me really wish I could see some sort of all comprehensive ranking of all cards in the format, pitting khans and fate cards in the same rank, just to see where power levels lie. I tried looking into it on my own, using the Ugin's construct rankings in the CFB fate reforged draft order to cross reference with khans, but didn't really have much luck. You can see what cards are above and below an arbitrary benchmark in ugin's construct in CFB's color rankings for fate reforged, and it would be interesting to see where certain cards like parapet or a mastodon appear now.
Yes, I think it's a slightly above average card that will always make the cut in my white decks. Because the Fate Reforged packs are so weak, I'm generally not trying to take high quality playables with the pack. I prefer to cut a colour (white in this case) and see what the open colours are.