Ok so here it is... I've done some drafts but have tried to learn and memorize as much as I could in order to make drafts go smoother recently... I tend to have any sort of rankings from sources up in a tab as I draft for reference as well. I wanted to show this draft because I think it was one of the first times I've had a "good" X/X/x deck in FKK. Usually I'm only 2 color, or a more blended 3 color clan. And, while those decks have worked well I've felt like the overall power level of my 2 color decks were a bit lacking sometimes and manascrew happens alot with clans if you don't have enough fixing so. And, I didn't have any super bombs either really but good ones, so happy with the result.
I definitely during the draft tried to be as aware as possible of signals I was receiving about colors being open. Sometimes I haven't done that in the past and ended up with low level cards which could have been easily avoided. But, I know how much I don't know, so if you notice any points where a signal might have been obvious let me know, even if it didn't affect my pick, just like the theory of it. I'm still trying to get a grasp of what picks are good when and when certain cards rise or fall in value relative to your prexisting picks. So, almost any advice is encouraged, in addition to the basic pick choices.
Pack 1 pick 1:
Sandblast
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Hunt the Weak
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Temur Battle Rage
Reality Shift
Fearsome Awakening
Humble Defector
Sage-Eye Avengers
--> Polluted Delta --- Well, started with a raredraft. Would have clearly taken Sage Eye otherwise... some decent cards in the pack though.
Pack 1 pick 2:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
--> Goblin Heelcutter -- the more I go against heelcutter and the more I use it the more I realize how good the card is. Isn't it essentially elite scaleguard - bolsterx2 + dash at common?
Fruit of the First Tree
Sudden Reclamation
Honor's Reward
Friendly Fire
Thornwood Falls
Pack 1 pick 3:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
Bathe in Dragonfire
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Sandsteppe Outcast
Smoldering Efreet
--> Cloudform -- I had the delta, and I've had a recent draft where I teetered on going grixis, and I regretted not doing so the last time. It was essentially an easy pick but Outcast and Dragonfire were thought about
Merciless Executioner
Wind-Scarred Crag
Pack 1 pick 4:
Ancestral Vengeance
War Flare
Soul Summons
Sultai Skullkeeper
Reach of Shadows
Whisperer of the Wilds
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Battlefront Krushok
--> Cloudform -- well, this one was even easier since now I would have "consistent" hexproof flyers.
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Jeskai Runemark
--> Bathe in Dragonfire -- back to red... figured I was definitely U/R and a given splash, hopefully b for delta.
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 6:
Jeskai Sage
--> Cunning Strike - took this over rageform for 2 reasons, 1 - double R with 2 double U at 3 cmc. 2 - all rankings have this ahead of it (so therefore this was why anyways lol)
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Cached Defenses
Rageform
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Dismal Backwater
Pack 1 pick 7:
Jeskai Runemark
War Flare
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
--> Write into Being -- this was an example where I might have taken the "bombier" pick in the past in mindscour, but rankings, dialogue and vids have helped in advising to have quality low curved cards over later cards
Winds of Qal Sisma
Mindscour Dragon
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 8:
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
--> Temur Battle Rage -- between this and cunning... I think cunning is the better overall card, but I knew with cloudforms and potential early game combat potential I'd rather have the low curve combat trick
Pilgrim of the Fires
Pack 1 pick 9:
--> Jeskai Sage -- again, taking low curve over high curve, despite cunning strike being pretty good and wanting it bad. FRF rankings by CFB, sage is 1 card ahead of cunning, while the frank list has it much lower.
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Sudden Reclamation
Pack 1 pick 11:
Pressure Point
--> Jeskai Runemark
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Smoldering Efreet
Pack 1 pick 12:
War Flare
--> Sultai Skullkeeper
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Pack 2 pick 1:
Smoke Teller
Ainok Bond-Kin
Bloodfire Expert
Tranquil Cove
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Arrow Storm
Taigam's Scheming
Dutiful Return
Dazzling Ramparts
--> Murderous Cut -- well, this is about the best way for my delta to get used, thought about ascendancy.
Sultai Soothsayer
Jeskai Ascendancy
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 2:
Frontier Bivouac
Feed the Clan
Jeskai Student
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - thought about bivouac for potential splash and u/r fixing, but took this since that's assuming alot to give up 4/5 damage
Dragonscale Boon
Rakshasa's Secret
Monastery Flock
Pine Walker
Mardu Charm
Abzan Ascendancy
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm -- wanted scion of glaciers and still second guess it, but I figured I'd take consistent damage to go along with heelcutter and cloudforms
Dragonscale Boon
Monastery Flock
Bitter Revelation
Scion of Glaciers
Chief of the Scale
Mardu Roughrider
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Woolly Loxodon
Salt Road Patrol
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
Cancel
Krumar Bond-Kin
Briber's Purse
Become Immense
--> Witness of the Ages -- relatively simple pick over mentor... I really like this card as it's sort of like glue, but it never seems to be very profitable
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 5:
Sage-Eye Harrier
Trumpet Blast
Hooting Mandrills
Alabaster Kirin
Sidisi's Pet
--> Throttle -- easy pick solidifying the black splash
Thornwood Falls
Ponyback Brigade
Jeskai Banner
Heart-Piercer Bow
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Taigam's Scheming
--> Sandsteppe Citadel -- essentially hatedrafted this but there for random splash potential
Kheru Bloodsucker
Island
Pack 2 pick 8:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
--> Wetland Sambar -- I took this over master because cloudforms were going to require early blue. But, I wonder about the tradeoff for the jeskai runemark activation potential if I used it in matchups.
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Archers' Parapet
Rakshasa's Secret
Forest
Pack 3 pick 1:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Feat of Resistance
Shambling Attendants
--> Mystic of the Hidden Way -- Throttle, Sage, and Snowhorn were considered. I was still light on creatures and with the runemark and double strike I figured this was better than stretching manabase further.
Wind-Scarred Crag
Snowhorn Rider
Throttle
Blossoming Sands
Goblinslide
Brave the Sands
Tuskguard Captain
Sage of the Inward Eye
Forest
Pack 3 pick 2:
Barrage of Boulders
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
--> Dismal Backwater -- easy pick to me to solidify black and definitely paid off in results but the scavenger was tempting. Given my creature count, was this right though?
Scaldkin
Sultai Scavenger
Cranial Archive
Armament Corps
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 3:
Naturalize
War Behemoth
Bloodfire Expert
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
--> Swiftwater Cliffs -- considered the bloodfire expert, and looked at bloodflies, but reaaaaally wanted to keep the splash small and efficient
Embodiment of Spring
Taigam's Scheming
Debilitating Injury
Swarm of Bloodflies
Incremental Growth
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Glacial Stalker -- I've yet to use a treasure cruise in my recent improved swiss performances, so I really wanted to take it here, but glacial stalker seems more important and wanted more creatures
Rugged Highlands
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Treasure Cruise
Roar of Challenge
Armament Corps
Island
Pack 3 pick 5:
Ainok Bond-Kin
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
--> Jeskai Windscout - this was an easy pick
Whirlwind Adept
Rotting Mastodon
Mardu Blazebringer
Set Adrift
Forest
Pack 3 pick 6:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Swiftwater Cliffs - another easy pick and feeling about 100% about the manabase
Tusked Colossodon
Bloodfire Mentor
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Seek the Horizon
Plains
Pack 3 pick 7:
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Disdainful Stroke - wished I had some white for the weaponmaster but took sideboard card instead
Sidisi's Pet
Abzan Banner
Efreet Weaponmaster
Windstorm
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 9:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Shambling Attendants
--> Snowhorn Rider - maybe goblinside for a random sideboard but nah hatedrafting this seemed better lol.
Goblinslide
Forest
Pack 3 pick 10:
Embodiment of Spring
--> Valley Dasher -- wanted one and luckily got it late. Bivouac is coming around really late. Made me consider because of snowhorn but thought that was getting too cute at this point of the draft.
Scout the Borders
Cranial Archive
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 11:
Naturalize
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
--> Taigam's Scheming
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
--> Tormenting Voice
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Island
So, I really had my deck built to be fast for game 1s by having the valley dasher in and a creature like witness on the board. I find that it's easier to punish slow decks in FKK if you build your deck properly and this was one of the few times with the cloudforms and heelcutter that dasher would be nice to test my opponent's speed.
Annoyingly, mtgo didn't save the vids of this draft so I don't remember much about the games.
Match 1 was against a sultai deck which I won game 1, they won game 2, and dropped after a long time being idle game 3.
Match 2 and 3 were both against mardu decks. Match 2 I went 2-0 I think, opponent mentioned after game 1 not having an answer for cloudform and in the 2nd game I had 1 starting hand and drew the other on turn 2/3.
Match 3: This deck had an archfiend of depravity but took that out with a timely murderous cut from a dead jeskai sage in game 1 and eventually won after that. Opp had good early white creatures, hateblade, seeker, outcast, and skycaptain all making their appearance game 1 as well, so had my guard up this match. Game 2 I lost to a stalled board where eventually a mardu ascendancy took over and lost to a rush of battle alpha strike. Game 3 I won with a cloudform/runemark and a heelcutter leading the way, and doing the final 7 damage in an alpha strike, with an arrow storm and cunning strike in hand.
Never drew my mystic of the hidden way, temur battle rage alpha struck in match 1, cunning strike was good, certain matchups I'd side out throttle for bitter revelation, and I'd side out valley dasher for witness of the ages if they didn't seem profitable. Tormenting voice also went in and out, but never drew it either. Write into being was good, and monastery flock came in handy a bunch of times.
Pack 2 pick 2: Frontier Bivouac over Arrow Storm
Pack 2 pick 4: Woolly Loxodon over Witness of the Ages (I'm happy to splash this just off the Bivouac)
Pack 3 pick 2: Frontier Bivouac over Dismal Backwater
Pack 3 pick 10: Frontier Bivouac (!) over Valley Dasher (you already have a Snowhorn Rider too)
So I would have splashed both green morphs for free off your double Bivouac, as well as witness of the ages over Arrow Storm, Valley Dasher and temur battle rage. You don't need 3 mana sources if your only cards of a colour are unmorphing costs.
Looking back on it, I can see why this would have just been better since my overall card quality skyrockets instead of having fringe playables for the purpose of making my deck faster, and, that really increases the chances of a good creature becoming my cloudform instead of trying to use temur battle rage with it.
Also, taking the bivouac p2p2 makes the chain reaction of future green morphs and bivouacs easy in addition to making my U/R manabase even better than it was. I hear a lot about on color lands being less desirable than off color lands, and I understand why but I think here I took it a bit too literally... I think the other reason why I took arrow storm there was because I had just gotten murderous cut, and because of that, I wanted to avoid the temptation of a 4th color since I didn't know how the rest of the draft would play out. That's also the same reason why tri-lands are amazing though. Also, looking at it, it was one of the very few picks that I didn't confer with the frank pick order to see just how they rate the power level of these 2 cards with each other since I was trying to do that for most of my picks just to help with memorization and stuff. I knew trilands were very high so assumed a good/decent common was lower, but I figured for "my" situation arrow storm was better.
So, a flaw in my logic didn't cost me any matches this time, but there's no doubt the deck improves with your picks. A few questions then.
1. if the bivouac isn't there p2p2 are you still taking the loxodon p2p4 banking on a potential 1 forest splash or was it only because of bivouac?
2. was my 4 swamp splash the right number for cut and throttle?
3. would you bump up to 18 lands if you had snowhorn and loxodon in your deck, or is the curve still low enough with all the 2 drops and morphs?
4. How much removal/combat tricks is the right number in FKK, and where do the card draw spells fit in to figuring out the proportions vs that and creatures? I generally don't use as much card draw as I probably should because I usually worry about bumping out a key spell/creature, and being at 9 spells worried me maindeck and was often boarding out the tormenting voice for the witness if I kept in the dasher for games.
5. I definitely know you give advice in almost all of these threads, but I'm not aware of all your general opinions yet or anything lol... So, I would like to just hear your opinions on the valley dasher and temur battle rage cards in general and what type of support it would take for you to use those cards. Because, in a way they were both sort of just thrown in (other than that my deck was relatively low curved) my deck for the virtue of trying to make it faster for game 1s, and it did kind of work here, and had no qualms boarding either out. But, you still would have drafted the temur battle rage over cunning strike when I did in the draft right?
6. For your pick suggestions, are these literally the only changes you would have made, or is this more to keep the suggestions smaller and more focused. What I mean is, there isn't an earlier P1 pick that you would have done that could have essentially changed the whole draft or anything? I'm only asking this because it helps me know if I am actually judging card quality consistently. Raredrafting polluted delta over sage eye avengers for example given it was a swiss. This may have affected drafting the cut and moreso the throttle afterwards potentially (throttle could have been g/u land, mandrils, etc, especially if I had the bivouac earlier)
edit - 1 more 7. As I said, I pretty much have multiple tabs open during the draft of all sorts of rating lists and help for both general drafting and FKK in particular. Meaning, I have all the frank and CFB lists up, I have the 2 google doc spreadsheets up of khans and fate, and a few other random tabs open when I draft. Other than watching various vids of drafts and stuff online, what are the best of the best sources for improving my knowledge for drafting in general and khans in particular?
4. How much removal/combat tricks is the right number in FKK, and where do the card draw spells fit in to figuring out the proportions vs that and creatures?
I don't think that's the right question. The real question is what is the right number of creatures. I generally want something like 18 land and 15 creatures. Card draw is *kinda* like a creature (since it will probably draw you one).
I generally don't use as much card draw as I probably should because I usually worry about bumping out a key spell/creature, and being at 9 spells worried me maindeck and was often boarding out the tormenting voice for the witness if I kept in the dasher for games.
Yeah, Witness is probably better than Tormenting Voice in your deck. Maybe the 18th land too.
5. I definitely know you give advice in almost all of these threads, but I'm not aware of all your general opinions yet or anything lol... So, I would like to just hear your opinions on the valley dasher and temur battle rage cards in general and what type of support it would take for you to use those cards. Because, in a way they were both sort of just thrown in (other than that my deck was relatively low curved) my deck for the virtue of trying to make it faster for game 1s, and it did kind of work here, and had no qualms boarding either out. But, you still would have drafted the temur battle rage over cunning strike when I did in the draft right?
I have a lower opinion of Valley Dasher than most simply because I think the must attack clause is a massive drawback. That's partly playstyle (I'd usually shooting for flyers or Wooly Loxodon type cards) and partly because I think aggro decks are a little fragile in a multicoloured format.
Temur Battle Rage is another card that I'm not a fan of. It's like a pump spell that doesn't save your creature if the blocking creature is bigger (so a 2-for-1 for your opponent). I want cards that can get me card advantage, not card parity or disadvantage. In your list, Cunning Strike is pretty bad because you are already bottlenecked at 5 mana. This is the curve of your deck:
1
2 cccccss
3 cccccccccs
4
5 ssssss
That's a fine early curve, but you have a complete hole in your curve at 4 (so you're likely to be playing another 3-drop on turn 4, a less powerful play than your opponent's 4-drops). Ideally some of those 5 mana spells would cost 4.
6. For your pick suggestions, are these literally the only changes you would have made, or is this more to keep the suggestions smaller and more focused.
Well, I can't say for sure that I would have drafted the exact same cards you/I did if I had been actually in the drafters seat on MODO, since reading a thread is a different experience. Those are the definite changes I would have made. I would probably have questioned going for the Murderous Cut and I looked hard at some of the fixing lands (for a slower more controlly build) and those Bloodfire Experts in pack 3 looked to be quite aggressive.
What I mean is, there isn't an earlier P1 pick that you would have done that could have essentially changed the whole draft or anything? I'm only asking this because it helps me know if I am actually judging card quality consistently. Raredrafting polluted delta over sage eye avengers for example given it was a swiss. This may have affected drafting the cut and moreso the throttle afterwards potentially (throttle could have been g/u land, mandrils, etc, especially if I had the bivouac earlier)
I can't fault the rare draft, that's part of you maximising your value from the draft. That was correct. Going into black was the only other thing that didn't come naturally to me, although it paid off for you in this draft.
edit - 1 more 7. As I said, I pretty much have multiple tabs open during the draft of all sorts of rating lists and help for both general drafting and FKK in particular. Meaning, I have all the frank and CFB lists up, I have the 2 google doc spreadsheets up of khans and fate, and a few other random tabs open when I draft. Other than watching various vids of drafts and stuff online, what are the best of the best sources for improving my knowledge for drafting in general and khans in particular?
I think having your draftcaps nitpicked to death on here is close to the best thing, other than drafting with a person as good as or better than you watching your shoulder discussing your picks in realtime.
#2 about black mana sources. When you say your rule of thumb is 3 source minimum, do you mean for splashing 2 non morph cards?
#5 Yea, based on that my curve looks pretty odd. Here was my logic and I'd like to know what justifications are right/wrong, lol.... I guess I looked at my curve a tiny bit differently in that the cut and the heelcutter both were counted as flexible 4s, as well as monastery flock when I had the morph mana up for either it or dropping another creature down on turn 4. I definitely am top heavy at 5, but I figured most of them were late game plays once I'm running out of gas so I could get away with it more often than in other drafts where I might "need" a removal spell earlier. This deck was usually the aggressor and was getting by with creatures acting as the removal early game, and then using the removals for anything I couldn't trump.
#6 Yea, the bloodfire experts only came to me during tough calls I suppose and I seem to rate them lower than I should. I took the glacial stalker over it once because I'd rather err on blue early game and I like glacial stalker's 5 toughness, and then I took a dual over it which knowing how solid U/R I was maybe I'd change the next time. Murderous cut was huge against archfiend of depravity with the mardu ascendancy out in my 3rd match, so in results thinking I am happy I ended up with the black splash, but I know that's not how things always play out. -- edit -- I looked up where Bloodfire experts are relative to the glacial stalkers on the frank khans list, and he has stalkers at the very bottom of good commons and uncommons whereas experts are in the middle of the mediocre playables list below dual lands. But, in numerous places such as LSV drafts or here etc. I feel like bloodfire experts seem to be held in higher regard now post fate, and they definitely play better in efficient fast red decks when I've had to face them. So, is this a card that got better after Fate or is it a card that was just not properly rated at the time and this is an obsolete list, or is it a card that just select people like more and it's a coincidence I've heard a few mentions in recent days? lol.. And, whatever the case is, what are other cards from Khans that might fall in this category of being better now than before? I know there's that thread floating around but I actually care more about your opinion than me discussing my own in there.
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If this is the premier location for draft education, I have some further questions for you haha. These are more open ended but hearing your answers will help me analyze these same things myself eventually.
What would you grade my deck in terms of power level as is for an FKK deck, and then the grade of it if I had the bivouacs splashing snowhorn and woolly? Rather, would you have been happy if the deck with the bivouacs was yours? I know this deck is skimping on power level in the grand scheme of things by taking delta over Sage Eye, and I'd also like that held against it in that it could have been better theoretically. Are you taking delta over sage eye in an 8-4 or swiss only?
This helps me since I am slowly learning draft grades of individual cards, but the idea of grading the whole deck together based on it's power can be used as reference in all future drafts. It also helps me gauge how powerful the decks I was facing were, for future reference as well. I definitely felt the 3rd match deck had good cards, like ascendancy, archfiend, sandsteppe, ponybacks, and seeker, so felt pretty good to beat it. I felt that my cloudforms were extremely potent, and were much more powerful than other decks I've had since they were early and consistent.
Second, what would you grade the actual draft performance itself then? It seems like my only glaring mistake for this particular draft was missing an extremely easy green splash that would have made nearly no hindrance on consistency for the rest of the deck. Other than that, it seems like in hindsight I made some good choices overall however. So like a B-? And I mean grading my draft against good/great drafters who for a 3-0 in an 8-4 are probably getting an A/A- for. Missing a tri seems like a beginner mistake that makes my draft have a glaring flaw.
I don't really have any advice. I just wanted to say i'm impressed with your drafting discipline. I would have screwed that draft up big time. I would have seen that late typhoid rats, forgotten evrything else id seen and probably gone heavier black and screwed the manabase up bad or splashed white instead of black. Kudos
#2 about black mana sources. When you say your rule of thumb is 3 source minimum, do you mean for splashing 2 non morph cards? Yes. or a single card
#5 Yea, based on that my curve looks pretty odd. Here was my logic and I'd like to know what justifications are right/wrong, lol.... I guess I looked at my curve a tiny bit differently in that the cut and the heelcutter both were counted as flexible 4s, as well as monastery flock when I had the morph mana up for either it or dropping another creature down on turn 4. I definitely am top heavy at 5, but I figured most of them were late game plays once I'm running out of gas so I could get away with it more often than in other drafts where I might "need" a removal spell earlier. This deck was usually the aggressor and was getting by with creatures acting as the removal early game, and then using the removals for anything I couldn't trump.
#6 Yea, the bloodfire experts only came to me during tough calls I suppose and I seem to rate them lower than I should. I took the glacial stalker over it once because I'd rather err on blue early game and I like glacial stalker's 5 toughness, and then I took a dual over it which knowing how solid U/R I was maybe I'd change the next time. Glacial Stalker is flat out better than Bloodfire Expert. It was the pick over the land that I was unsure about
Murderous cut was huge against archfiend of depravity with the mardu ascendancy out in my 3rd match, so in results thinking I am happy I ended up with the black splash, but I know that's not how things always play out. -- edit -- I looked up where Bloodfire experts are relative to the glacial stalkers on the frank khans list, and he has stalkers at the very bottom of good commons and uncommons whereas experts are in the middle of the mediocre playables list below dual lands. But, in numerous places such as LSV drafts or here etc. I feel like bloodfire experts seem to be held in higher regard now post fate, and they definitely play better in efficient fast red decks when I've had to face them. So, is this a card that got better after Fate or is it a card that was just not properly rated at the time and this is an obsolete list, or is it a card that just select people like more and it's a coincidence I've heard a few mentions in recent days? lol.. And, whatever the case is, what are other cards from Khans that might fall in this category of being better now than before? Well, decks are more likely to be 2 colour or only a tiny splash for a third now that one of the Khans packs is diluted. So two colour aggro cards have more of a chance. I think as people identify archetypes better decks in general need to tighten up and Bloodfire Expert has gone up in estimation (at the start of the season I had it roughly on a par with Kin-Tree Warden, now the expert has moved up and morph down in my estimation.
I know there's that thread floating around but I actually care more about your opinion than me discussing my own in there.
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If this is the premier location for draft education, I have some further questions for you haha. These are more open ended but hearing your answers will help me analyze these same things myself eventually.
What would you grade my deck in terms of power level as is for an FKK deck, I think it's a decent deck, certainly capable of going 3-0, but it could also go 2-1 or even 1-2 once you factor in misplays and bad luck
and then the grade of it if I had the bivouacs splashing snowhorn and woolly? I think it would be slightly better with the green morphs, but that's partly because of my playstyle (I tend to like slower decks with more powerful cards) Rather, would you have been happy if the deck with the bivouacs was yours? yes I know this deck is skimping on power level in the grand scheme of things by taking delta over Sage Eye, Forget that. It was and remains correct to rare-draft there and I'd also like that held against it in that it could have been better theoretically. Are you taking delta over sage eye in an 8-4 or swiss only? Everything on modo you rare draft. The only case where I would be forgetting monetary values would be in a grand prix or pro tour.
This helps me since I am slowly learning draft grades of individual cards, but the idea of grading the whole deck together based on it's power can be used as reference in all future drafts. It also helps me gauge how powerful the decks I was facing were, for future reference as well. I definitely felt the 3rd match deck had good cards, like ascendancy, archfiend, sandsteppe, ponybacks, and seeker, so felt pretty good to beat it. I felt that my cloudforms were extremely potent, and were much more powerful than other decks I've had since they were early and consistent.
Second, what would you grade the actual draft performance itself then? Pretty solid It seems like my only glaring mistake for this particular draft was missing an extremely easy green splash that would have made nearly no hindrance on consistency for the rest of the deck. Other than that, it seems like in hindsight I made some good choices overall however. So like a B-? And I mean grading my draft against good/great drafters who for a 3-0 in an 8-4 are probably getting an A/A- for. Missing a tri seems like a beginner mistake that makes my draft have a glaring flaw. Well, let's look at the matches. Round 1 was vs Sultai, a wedge I despise. I'm not surprised you won easily there. Round 2 was vs Mardu, but it sounds like he was a little short on flyers if he couldn't beat a 2/2 hexproof flyer or race it. Round 3 was the only decent deck you faced, and they took you to 3 games. You could easily have lost simply by having to mull down to 4-5 in the 3rd game. Everyone that wins gets a little lucky, and you did too. I'd put your deck as a B+/A- level.
I don't really have any advice. I just wanted to say i'm impressed with your drafting discipline. I would have screwed that draft up big time. I would have seen that late typhoid rats, forgotten evrything else id seen and probably gone heavier black and screwed the manabase up bad or splashed white instead of black. Kudos
Thank you very much, I appreciate the response. I have a lot more to learn however haha...
Thanks a lot for your help. Just this session helped me a ton. I have some further question about this particular draft, but I am going to put up my next draft shortly so after some final things I will probably leave you alone about this one.
Honestly both questions bleed into my next draftcap but I don't want to assume you reading the next one so I'll ask these questions here.
1. In reference to your at least 3 source 2 card (nonmorph) splash rule, how about when it scales up to 3, 4, and 5 cards whats your source minimum? Once you are 6 that's pretty much a color, and 5 might be a little too convoluted as well, but any further info here would help thanks.
2. In terms of the rare draft there, so non pro type players (like LSV or something) rare draft in 8-4s? Is there a threshold of value to a card in FKK that you wouldn't rare draft once the circumstances sort of swing into taking the better card for your deck and win potential? Good example is, I once took a flooded strand over an archfiend of depravity and it killed me inside but I felt like I had to do it. I went 1-2 so chances are I probably made out better with the strand since that's almost the 2 packs I lost and to assume 3-0ing is a tall order just because of one card.
I suppose if anything further pops up I'll ask again, but I am going to put up another draft in the near future. Thanks again.
1. In reference to your at least 3 source 2 card (nonmorph) splash rule, how about when it scales up to 3, 4, and 5 cards whats your source minimum? Once you are 6 that's pretty much a color, and 5 might be a little too convoluted as well, but any further info here would help thanks.
Sure. Here's my heuristic I've worked out over the years:
3 sources for a splash of a single card that you want to cast on turn 5, e.g. Reach of Shadows
7 sources for a 1C card on turn 2 or a 3CC card on turn 5, eg Soul Summons or Aven Surveyor
10 sources for a CC card on turn 2 or a 3CCC card on turn 6, e.g. Ancestral Vengeance
Once you have your minimums, you want to try making your manabase even more stable. And of course morphs don't count (I'm fine running Snowhorn Rider off a single Frontier Bivouac in a sultai deck since hes still a card even if the red mana never shows up).
2. In terms of the rare draft there, so non pro type players (like LSV or something) rare draft in 8-4s? Is there a threshold of value to a card in FKK that you wouldn't rare draft once the circumstances sort of swing into taking the better card for your deck and win potential? Good example is, I once took a flooded strand over an archfiend of depravity and it killed me inside but I felt like I had to do it. I went 1-2 so chances are I probably made out better with the strand since that's almost the 2 packs I lost and to assume 3-0ing is a tall order just because of one card.
Well, your goal is to get value from the draft. My personal rare drafting threshold is a booster. If a card is worth more than that I'll take it over a card that is better for my deck.
In your deck, you took the land and still won the draft, getting both prizes. If you had drafted 'competitively', you would still probably have won the draft, but your prizes would have been lower. And it's still possible that you wouldn't have won at all, and your prizes would suck.
Splash considerations in my view are dependent upon the details. I would not want to include an average card on a splash, but for a bomb (such as Duneblast even just 2 sources would be worth it although I would prefer to have at least 3 unless that really hurts my other colors of mana.
As for rare drafting, speaking only for myself, if a card is worth 2 tickets or more then I will always take it. If it's worth between 1 and 2 then I will often take it but not if it means passing on a very good (not just above average) card for my deck.
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I definitely during the draft tried to be as aware as possible of signals I was receiving about colors being open. Sometimes I haven't done that in the past and ended up with low level cards which could have been easily avoided. But, I know how much I don't know, so if you notice any points where a signal might have been obvious let me know, even if it didn't affect my pick, just like the theory of it. I'm still trying to get a grasp of what picks are good when and when certain cards rise or fall in value relative to your prexisting picks. So, almost any advice is encouraged, in addition to the basic pick choices.
Event #: 7997248
Time: 2/18/2015 1:42:13 AM
Players:
--> KustomPaintaz
Archimideez
tomtom50911
seventhtroop
SecretSauce
Schabernack
guyzero
Zaiorn
------ FRF ------
Pack 1 pick 1:
Sandblast
Jeskai Sage
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Hunt the Weak
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Temur Battle Rage
Reality Shift
Fearsome Awakening
Humble Defector
Sage-Eye Avengers
--> Polluted Delta --- Well, started with a raredraft. Would have clearly taken Sage Eye otherwise... some decent cards in the pack though.
Pack 1 pick 2:
Abzan Skycaptain
Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Grim Contest
Dragon Bell Monk
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
--> Goblin Heelcutter -- the more I go against heelcutter and the more I use it the more I realize how good the card is. Isn't it essentially elite scaleguard - bolsterx2 + dash at common?
Fruit of the First Tree
Sudden Reclamation
Honor's Reward
Friendly Fire
Thornwood Falls
Pack 1 pick 3:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Sultai Emissary
Jeskai Runemark
Bathe in Dragonfire
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Sandsteppe Outcast
Smoldering Efreet
--> Cloudform -- I had the delta, and I've had a recent draft where I teetered on going grixis, and I regretted not doing so the last time. It was essentially an easy pick but Outcast and Dragonfire were thought about
Merciless Executioner
Wind-Scarred Crag
Pack 1 pick 4:
Ancestral Vengeance
War Flare
Soul Summons
Sultai Skullkeeper
Reach of Shadows
Whisperer of the Wilds
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Write into Being
Battlefront Krushok
--> Cloudform -- well, this one was even easier since now I would have "consistent" hexproof flyers.
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Pack 1 pick 5:
Pressure Point
Whisk Away
Jeskai Runemark
--> Bathe in Dragonfire -- back to red... figured I was definitely U/R and a given splash, hopefully b for delta.
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Ainok Guide
Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 6:
Jeskai Sage
--> Cunning Strike - took this over rageform for 2 reasons, 1 - double R with 2 double U at 3 cmc. 2 - all rankings have this ahead of it (so therefore this was why anyways lol)
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Cached Defenses
Rageform
Lotus-Eye Mystics
Dismal Backwater
Pack 1 pick 7:
Jeskai Runemark
War Flare
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Ambush Krotiq
--> Write into Being -- this was an example where I might have taken the "bombier" pick in the past in mindscour, but rankings, dialogue and vids have helped in advising to have quality low curved cards over later cards
Winds of Qal Sisma
Mindscour Dragon
Tranquil Cove
Pack 1 pick 8:
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
--> Temur Battle Rage -- between this and cunning... I think cunning is the better overall card, but I knew with cloudforms and potential early game combat potential I'd rather have the low curve combat trick
Pilgrim of the Fires
Pack 1 pick 9:
--> Jeskai Sage -- again, taking low curve over high curve, despite cunning strike being pretty good and wanting it bad. FRF rankings by CFB, sage is 1 card ahead of cunning, while the frank list has it much lower.
Sibsig Host
Cunning Strike
Arashin Cleric
Mardu Runemark
Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Pack 1 pick 10:
--> Enhanced Awareness
Typhoid Rats
Rakshasa's Disdain
Return to the Earth
Great-Horn Krushok
Sudden Reclamation
Pack 1 pick 11:
Pressure Point
--> Jeskai Runemark
Map the Wastes
Lightning Shrieker
Smoldering Efreet
Pack 1 pick 12:
War Flare
--> Sultai Skullkeeper
Collateral Damage
Temur Runemark
Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Smoldering Efreet
Fascination
Friendly Fire
Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Formless Nurturing
Tasigur's Cruelty
Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Arashin Cleric
------ KTK ------
Pack 2 pick 1:
Smoke Teller
Ainok Bond-Kin
Bloodfire Expert
Tranquil Cove
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Arrow Storm
Taigam's Scheming
Dutiful Return
Dazzling Ramparts
--> Murderous Cut -- well, this is about the best way for my delta to get used, thought about ascendancy.
Sultai Soothsayer
Jeskai Ascendancy
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 2:
Frontier Bivouac
Feed the Clan
Jeskai Student
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm - thought about bivouac for potential splash and u/r fixing, but took this since that's assuming alot to give up 4/5 damage
Dragonscale Boon
Rakshasa's Secret
Monastery Flock
Pine Walker
Mardu Charm
Abzan Ascendancy
Forest
Pack 2 pick 3:
Canyon Lurkers
Longshot Squad
Sultai Banner
Disowned Ancestor
Siegecraft
--> Arrow Storm -- wanted scion of glaciers and still second guess it, but I figured I'd take consistent damage to go along with heelcutter and cloudforms
Dragonscale Boon
Monastery Flock
Bitter Revelation
Scion of Glaciers
Chief of the Scale
Mardu Roughrider
Island
Pack 2 pick 4:
Woolly Loxodon
Salt Road Patrol
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
Cancel
Krumar Bond-Kin
Briber's Purse
Become Immense
--> Witness of the Ages -- relatively simple pick over mentor... I really like this card as it's sort of like glue, but it never seems to be very profitable
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 5:
Sage-Eye Harrier
Trumpet Blast
Hooting Mandrills
Alabaster Kirin
Sidisi's Pet
--> Throttle -- easy pick solidifying the black splash
Thornwood Falls
Ponyback Brigade
Jeskai Banner
Heart-Piercer Bow
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 6:
Bloodfire Expert
Sagu Archer
Rakshasa's Secret
Disdainful Stroke
Sidisi's Pet
--> Glacial Stalker
Mardu Banner
Sultai Charm
Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 7:
Defiant Strike
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
Molting Snakeskin
Taigam's Scheming
--> Sandsteppe Citadel -- essentially hatedrafted this but there for random splash potential
Kheru Bloodsucker
Island
Pack 2 pick 8:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
--> Wetland Sambar -- I took this over master because cloudforms were going to require early blue. But, I wonder about the tradeoff for the jeskai runemark activation potential if I used it in matchups.
Rush of Battle
Leaping Master
Archers' Parapet
Rakshasa's Secret
Forest
Pack 2 pick 9:
Smoke Teller
Unyielding Krumar
Sultai Banner
Firehoof Cavalry
--> Taigam's Scheming
Dutiful Return
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 10:
Feed the Clan
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
--> Dragonscale Boon
Rakshasa's Secret
Forest
Pack 2 pick 11:
Sultai Banner
Siegecraft
Dragonscale Boon
--> Bitter Revelation
Island
Pack 2 pick 12:
Archers' Parapet
--> Embodiment of Spring
Briber's Purse
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Jeskai Banner
Heart-Piercer Bow
Mountain
Pack 2 pick 14:
--> Heart-Piercer Bow
Swamp
Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Island
------ KTK ------
Pack 3 pick 1:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Feat of Resistance
Shambling Attendants
--> Mystic of the Hidden Way -- Throttle, Sage, and Snowhorn were considered. I was still light on creatures and with the runemark and double strike I figured this was better than stretching manabase further.
Wind-Scarred Crag
Snowhorn Rider
Throttle
Blossoming Sands
Goblinslide
Brave the Sands
Tuskguard Captain
Sage of the Inward Eye
Forest
Pack 3 pick 2:
Barrage of Boulders
Savage Punch
Embodiment of Spring
Unyielding Krumar
Smite the Monstrous
Valley Dasher
Scout the Borders
--> Dismal Backwater -- easy pick to me to solidify black and definitely paid off in results but the scavenger was tempting. Given my creature count, was this right though?
Scaldkin
Sultai Scavenger
Cranial Archive
Armament Corps
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 3:
Naturalize
War Behemoth
Bloodfire Expert
Smite the Monstrous
Bloodfire Mentor
Archers' Parapet
--> Swiftwater Cliffs -- considered the bloodfire expert, and looked at bloodflies, but reaaaaally wanted to keep the splash small and efficient
Embodiment of Spring
Taigam's Scheming
Debilitating Injury
Swarm of Bloodflies
Incremental Growth
Forest
Pack 3 pick 4:
Erase
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Glacial Stalker -- I've yet to use a treasure cruise in my recent improved swiss performances, so I really wanted to take it here, but glacial stalker seems more important and wanted more creatures
Rugged Highlands
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Treasure Cruise
Roar of Challenge
Armament Corps
Island
Pack 3 pick 5:
Ainok Bond-Kin
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Leaping Master
Scout the Borders
--> Jeskai Windscout - this was an easy pick
Whirlwind Adept
Rotting Mastodon
Mardu Blazebringer
Set Adrift
Forest
Pack 3 pick 6:
Act of Treason
Tusked Colossodon
Kin-Tree Warden
--> Swiftwater Cliffs - another easy pick and feeling about 100% about the manabase
Tusked Colossodon
Bloodfire Mentor
Rotting Mastodon
Singing Bell Strike
Seek the Horizon
Plains
Pack 3 pick 7:
Tormenting Voice
Longshot Squad
Sage-Eye Harrier
--> Disdainful Stroke - wished I had some white for the weaponmaster but took sideboard card instead
Sidisi's Pet
Abzan Banner
Efreet Weaponmaster
Windstorm
Swamp
Pack 3 pick 8:
Defiant Strike
Mardu Skullhunter
Mardu Hateblade
Scout the Borders
Kheru Dreadmaw
--> Monastery Flock
Abzan Charm
Plains
Pack 3 pick 9:
War Behemoth
Swift Kick
Awaken the Bear
Shambling Attendants
--> Snowhorn Rider - maybe goblinside for a random sideboard but nah hatedrafting this seemed better lol.
Goblinslide
Forest
Pack 3 pick 10:
Embodiment of Spring
--> Valley Dasher -- wanted one and luckily got it late. Bivouac is coming around really late. Made me consider because of snowhorn but thought that was getting too cute at this point of the draft.
Scout the Borders
Cranial Archive
Frontier Bivouac
Mountain
Pack 3 pick 11:
Naturalize
Archers' Parapet
Embodiment of Spring
--> Taigam's Scheming
Forest
Pack 3 pick 12:
--> Tormenting Voice
Abomination of Gudul
Temur Banner
Island
Pack 3 pick 13:
Scout the Borders
--> Mardu Blazebringer
Forest
Pack 3 pick 14:
--> Tusked Colossodon
Plains
Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Swamp
So, My deck was:
1 sultai skullkeeper
1 wetland sambar
1 jeskai sage
1 smoldering efreet
1 valley dasher
1 jeskai windscout
1 goblin heelcutter
1 mystic of the hidden way
2 glacial stalker
1 monastery flock
2 cloudform
1 write into being
spells (9):
1 enhanced awareness
2 arrow storm
1 tormenting voice
1 cunning strike
1 temur battle rage
1 murderous cut
1 throttle
1 bathe in dragonfire
1 polluted delta
1 dismal backwater
2 saltwater cliffs
2 swamp
5 island
6 mountain
1 bitter revelation
1 witness of the ages
1 disdainful stroke
1 mardu blazebringer
1 jeskai runemark
So, I really had my deck built to be fast for game 1s by having the valley dasher in and a creature like witness on the board. I find that it's easier to punish slow decks in FKK if you build your deck properly and this was one of the few times with the cloudforms and heelcutter that dasher would be nice to test my opponent's speed.
Annoyingly, mtgo didn't save the vids of this draft so I don't remember much about the games.
Match 1 was against a sultai deck which I won game 1, they won game 2, and dropped after a long time being idle game 3.
Match 2 and 3 were both against mardu decks. Match 2 I went 2-0 I think, opponent mentioned after game 1 not having an answer for cloudform and in the 2nd game I had 1 starting hand and drew the other on turn 2/3.
Match 3: This deck had an archfiend of depravity but took that out with a timely murderous cut from a dead jeskai sage in game 1 and eventually won after that. Opp had good early white creatures, hateblade, seeker, outcast, and skycaptain all making their appearance game 1 as well, so had my guard up this match. Game 2 I lost to a stalled board where eventually a mardu ascendancy took over and lost to a rush of battle alpha strike. Game 3 I won with a cloudform/runemark and a heelcutter leading the way, and doing the final 7 damage in an alpha strike, with an arrow storm and cunning strike in hand.
Never drew my mystic of the hidden way, temur battle rage alpha struck in match 1, cunning strike was good, certain matchups I'd side out throttle for bitter revelation, and I'd side out valley dasher for witness of the ages if they didn't seem profitable. Tormenting voice also went in and out, but never drew it either. Write into being was good, and monastery flock came in handy a bunch of times.
Alright well, have at it -
Pack 2 pick 4: Woolly Loxodon over Witness of the Ages (I'm happy to splash this just off the Bivouac)
Pack 3 pick 2: Frontier Bivouac over Dismal Backwater
Pack 3 pick 10: Frontier Bivouac (!) over Valley Dasher (you already have a Snowhorn Rider too)
So I would have splashed both green morphs for free off your double Bivouac, as well as witness of the ages over Arrow Storm, Valley Dasher and temur battle rage. You don't need 3 mana sources if your only cards of a colour are unmorphing costs.
Congrats on your win.
Looking back on it, I can see why this would have just been better since my overall card quality skyrockets instead of having fringe playables for the purpose of making my deck faster, and, that really increases the chances of a good creature becoming my cloudform instead of trying to use temur battle rage with it.
Also, taking the bivouac p2p2 makes the chain reaction of future green morphs and bivouacs easy in addition to making my U/R manabase even better than it was. I hear a lot about on color lands being less desirable than off color lands, and I understand why but I think here I took it a bit too literally... I think the other reason why I took arrow storm there was because I had just gotten murderous cut, and because of that, I wanted to avoid the temptation of a 4th color since I didn't know how the rest of the draft would play out. That's also the same reason why tri-lands are amazing though. Also, looking at it, it was one of the very few picks that I didn't confer with the frank pick order to see just how they rate the power level of these 2 cards with each other since I was trying to do that for most of my picks just to help with memorization and stuff. I knew trilands were very high so assumed a good/decent common was lower, but I figured for "my" situation arrow storm was better.
So, a flaw in my logic didn't cost me any matches this time, but there's no doubt the deck improves with your picks. A few questions then.
1. if the bivouac isn't there p2p2 are you still taking the loxodon p2p4 banking on a potential 1 forest splash or was it only because of bivouac?
2. was my 4 swamp splash the right number for cut and throttle?
3. would you bump up to 18 lands if you had snowhorn and loxodon in your deck, or is the curve still low enough with all the 2 drops and morphs?
4. How much removal/combat tricks is the right number in FKK, and where do the card draw spells fit in to figuring out the proportions vs that and creatures? I generally don't use as much card draw as I probably should because I usually worry about bumping out a key spell/creature, and being at 9 spells worried me maindeck and was often boarding out the tormenting voice for the witness if I kept in the dasher for games.
5. I definitely know you give advice in almost all of these threads, but I'm not aware of all your general opinions yet or anything lol... So, I would like to just hear your opinions on the valley dasher and temur battle rage cards in general and what type of support it would take for you to use those cards. Because, in a way they were both sort of just thrown in (other than that my deck was relatively low curved) my deck for the virtue of trying to make it faster for game 1s, and it did kind of work here, and had no qualms boarding either out. But, you still would have drafted the temur battle rage over cunning strike when I did in the draft right?
6. For your pick suggestions, are these literally the only changes you would have made, or is this more to keep the suggestions smaller and more focused. What I mean is, there isn't an earlier P1 pick that you would have done that could have essentially changed the whole draft or anything? I'm only asking this because it helps me know if I am actually judging card quality consistently. Raredrafting polluted delta over sage eye avengers for example given it was a swiss. This may have affected drafting the cut and moreso the throttle afterwards potentially (throttle could have been g/u land, mandrils, etc, especially if I had the bivouac earlier)
edit - 1 more 7. As I said, I pretty much have multiple tabs open during the draft of all sorts of rating lists and help for both general drafting and FKK in particular. Meaning, I have all the frank and CFB lists up, I have the 2 google doc spreadsheets up of khans and fate, and a few other random tabs open when I draft. Other than watching various vids of drafts and stuff online, what are the best of the best sources for improving my knowledge for drafting in general and khans in particular?
Thanks for everything!
I probably wouldn't go for the Loxodon there without already having the bivouac.
My personal rule of thumb is a minimum of 3 colours sources. 4 is fine.
Yeah, 18 is probably better since your already have 6 5-mana spells as well as a couple of big morphs. Tormenting Voice would be my other cut.
I don't think that's the right question. The real question is what is the right number of creatures. I generally want something like 18 land and 15 creatures. Card draw is *kinda* like a creature (since it will probably draw you one).
Yeah, Witness is probably better than Tormenting Voice in your deck. Maybe the 18th land too.
I have a lower opinion of Valley Dasher than most simply because I think the must attack clause is a massive drawback. That's partly playstyle (I'd usually shooting for flyers or Wooly Loxodon type cards) and partly because I think aggro decks are a little fragile in a multicoloured format.
Temur Battle Rage is another card that I'm not a fan of. It's like a pump spell that doesn't save your creature if the blocking creature is bigger (so a 2-for-1 for your opponent). I want cards that can get me card advantage, not card parity or disadvantage. In your list, Cunning Strike is pretty bad because you are already bottlenecked at 5 mana. This is the curve of your deck:
1
2 cccccss
3 cccccccccs
4
5 ssssss
That's a fine early curve, but you have a complete hole in your curve at 4 (so you're likely to be playing another 3-drop on turn 4, a less powerful play than your opponent's 4-drops). Ideally some of those 5 mana spells would cost 4.
Well, I can't say for sure that I would have drafted the exact same cards you/I did if I had been actually in the drafters seat on MODO, since reading a thread is a different experience. Those are the definite changes I would have made. I would probably have questioned going for the Murderous Cut and I looked hard at some of the fixing lands (for a slower more controlly build) and those Bloodfire Experts in pack 3 looked to be quite aggressive.
I can't fault the rare draft, that's part of you maximising your value from the draft. That was correct. Going into black was the only other thing that didn't come naturally to me, although it paid off for you in this draft.
I think having your draftcaps nitpicked to death on here is close to the best thing, other than drafting with a person as good as or better than you watching your shoulder discussing your picks in realtime.
#2 about black mana sources. When you say your rule of thumb is 3 source minimum, do you mean for splashing 2 non morph cards?
#5 Yea, based on that my curve looks pretty odd. Here was my logic and I'd like to know what justifications are right/wrong, lol.... I guess I looked at my curve a tiny bit differently in that the cut and the heelcutter both were counted as flexible 4s, as well as monastery flock when I had the morph mana up for either it or dropping another creature down on turn 4. I definitely am top heavy at 5, but I figured most of them were late game plays once I'm running out of gas so I could get away with it more often than in other drafts where I might "need" a removal spell earlier. This deck was usually the aggressor and was getting by with creatures acting as the removal early game, and then using the removals for anything I couldn't trump.
#6 Yea, the bloodfire experts only came to me during tough calls I suppose and I seem to rate them lower than I should. I took the glacial stalker over it once because I'd rather err on blue early game and I like glacial stalker's 5 toughness, and then I took a dual over it which knowing how solid U/R I was maybe I'd change the next time. Murderous cut was huge against archfiend of depravity with the mardu ascendancy out in my 3rd match, so in results thinking I am happy I ended up with the black splash, but I know that's not how things always play out. -- edit -- I looked up where Bloodfire experts are relative to the glacial stalkers on the frank khans list, and he has stalkers at the very bottom of good commons and uncommons whereas experts are in the middle of the mediocre playables list below dual lands. But, in numerous places such as LSV drafts or here etc. I feel like bloodfire experts seem to be held in higher regard now post fate, and they definitely play better in efficient fast red decks when I've had to face them. So, is this a card that got better after Fate or is it a card that was just not properly rated at the time and this is an obsolete list, or is it a card that just select people like more and it's a coincidence I've heard a few mentions in recent days? lol.. And, whatever the case is, what are other cards from Khans that might fall in this category of being better now than before? I know there's that thread floating around but I actually care more about your opinion than me discussing my own in there.
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If this is the premier location for draft education, I have some further questions for you haha. These are more open ended but hearing your answers will help me analyze these same things myself eventually.
What would you grade my deck in terms of power level as is for an FKK deck, and then the grade of it if I had the bivouacs splashing snowhorn and woolly? Rather, would you have been happy if the deck with the bivouacs was yours? I know this deck is skimping on power level in the grand scheme of things by taking delta over Sage Eye, and I'd also like that held against it in that it could have been better theoretically. Are you taking delta over sage eye in an 8-4 or swiss only?
This helps me since I am slowly learning draft grades of individual cards, but the idea of grading the whole deck together based on it's power can be used as reference in all future drafts. It also helps me gauge how powerful the decks I was facing were, for future reference as well. I definitely felt the 3rd match deck had good cards, like ascendancy, archfiend, sandsteppe, ponybacks, and seeker, so felt pretty good to beat it. I felt that my cloudforms were extremely potent, and were much more powerful than other decks I've had since they were early and consistent.
Second, what would you grade the actual draft performance itself then? It seems like my only glaring mistake for this particular draft was missing an extremely easy green splash that would have made nearly no hindrance on consistency for the rest of the deck. Other than that, it seems like in hindsight I made some good choices overall however. So like a B-? And I mean grading my draft against good/great drafters who for a 3-0 in an 8-4 are probably getting an A/A- for. Missing a tri seems like a beginner mistake that makes my draft have a glaring flaw.
Thank you very much, I appreciate the response. I have a lot more to learn however haha...
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Thanks a lot for your help. Just this session helped me a ton. I have some further question about this particular draft, but I am going to put up my next draft shortly so after some final things I will probably leave you alone about this one.
Honestly both questions bleed into my next draftcap but I don't want to assume you reading the next one so I'll ask these questions here.
1. In reference to your at least 3 source 2 card (nonmorph) splash rule, how about when it scales up to 3, 4, and 5 cards whats your source minimum? Once you are 6 that's pretty much a color, and 5 might be a little too convoluted as well, but any further info here would help thanks.
2. In terms of the rare draft there, so non pro type players (like LSV or something) rare draft in 8-4s? Is there a threshold of value to a card in FKK that you wouldn't rare draft once the circumstances sort of swing into taking the better card for your deck and win potential? Good example is, I once took a flooded strand over an archfiend of depravity and it killed me inside but I felt like I had to do it. I went 1-2 so chances are I probably made out better with the strand since that's almost the 2 packs I lost and to assume 3-0ing is a tall order just because of one card.
I suppose if anything further pops up I'll ask again, but I am going to put up another draft in the near future. Thanks again.
Sure. Here's my heuristic I've worked out over the years:
3 sources for a splash of a single card that you want to cast on turn 5, e.g. Reach of Shadows
7 sources for a 1C card on turn 2 or a 3CC card on turn 5, eg Soul Summons or Aven Surveyor
10 sources for a CC card on turn 2 or a 3CCC card on turn 6, e.g. Ancestral Vengeance
Once you have your minimums, you want to try making your manabase even more stable. And of course morphs don't count (I'm fine running Snowhorn Rider off a single Frontier Bivouac in a sultai deck since hes still a card even if the red mana never shows up).
Well, your goal is to get value from the draft. My personal rare drafting threshold is a booster. If a card is worth more than that I'll take it over a card that is better for my deck.
In your deck, you took the land and still won the draft, getting both prizes. If you had drafted 'competitively', you would still probably have won the draft, but your prizes would have been lower. And it's still possible that you wouldn't have won at all, and your prizes would suck.
As for rare drafting, speaking only for myself, if a card is worth 2 tickets or more then I will always take it. If it's worth between 1 and 2 then I will often take it but not if it means passing on a very good (not just above average) card for my deck.