I am in a limited league and the current card minimum is 42 cards. I went for Abzan. Here is the pool and deck: https://deckbox.org/sets/838125 pw: insight
Would you make any changes?
I am 5 win, 1 loss so far. Loss was vs a fast deck with Zurgo.
Because you have to run a 42 card deck, that's basically a 40 card deck with another land and another spells added. You only have 18 lands, which is like running 17 land in a normal 40 card deck.
I'd also look pretty hard at the 2nd Bitter Revelation and splashing Abomination of Gudul, but ultimately you already have a powerful deck and those probably wouldn't be improvements.
My loss was being mana short one game out of 2 and I wouldn't mind casting the Loxodon and Duneblast sooner with an extra mana.
Hardened scales rarely pays off so far so I agree with that as well. I will integrate it when I have more cards benefiting from it.
My brutes often give me a fast victory but I sometime harm myself with them so I agree one would be sufficient. They are a win more type of cards and the Loxodon is useful early and end game and I prefer that.
I don't have enough delve to justify a second bitter revelation I think.
I was also tempted by splashing for Abomination of Gudul but I think splashing blue to get a 4 type of mana base is to risky for the benefit.
I will wait for comments from others, but so far I would make all the changes you recommend.
I added a pack to the pool as we do every month. Deck minimum is now 44 cards
Cards from this pack that I integrated in the deck: Suspension Field Second one Blossoming Sands
I am allowed a single card trade: I have 3 cards of interest in the pool of the guy I am matched with for this months trade: Abzan Falconer (my current first choice. I would have 2 total. Flying is key in this set and making all my creatures with counters fly is very though to deal with. Outlast cost is also cheap Armament Corps (second choice?) Always a winner, but I think I need more early game cards. It does work very well with Hardened Scales and Retribution of the ancients It is rated 3.5 on channel fireball limited set review. I am really on the fence. Mer-Ek Nightblade(third choice)Also great, but cost 4 and provides less evasion. It does provide me with an effect I didn't have though. Also is an awesome combo with Ainok Bond-Kin first strike ability
He also has Feat of Resistance and Kill Shot. He will open 2 packs tomorrow so I will edit this post if there is more of interest to me. (I only get one pack because I am in the lead)
What do you guys think of Retribution of the ancients in a Abzan heavy deck such as mine? Sounds a bit weak to me at first glance, but then again I Duneblast twice so I dont need to keep counters forever, I just need to last until the board wipe. It also acts as a possibility making my foe not want to attack or block into this without actually having to activate it. I could re-integrate Hardened Scales and a third Longshot Squad and the 2 Salt road Patrol to go all in outlast (ditch the Bellowing Saddlebrute and the 2 Abzan Guide. It could even kill my nemesis zurgo helmsmasher while it is indestructible. Re-usable removal saving my creatures could be worth it. Anafenza, the Foremost rarely last more than 2 turns. It would feed this enchantment and last longer. Swarm of bloodflies would also feed it. This would result in something like (assuming I got the Abzan Falconer as a trade) : https://deckbox.org/sets/847875?s=c&o=a Password: insight
And, considering the above, what card should I get as get as a trade?
In terms of what cards to trade for, what you really want is another Ainok Bond-Kin for curve purposes. I think that Azban Falconer is the clear pick of the cards you can choose though. Armament corps is more powerful but you are already a little bottlenecked with powerful plays over 4 mana. As your deck becomes more powerful I think the card drawing consistency of Bitter Revelation goes up so I would also bring in the second copy from the sideboard. In terms of tweaking the manabase I'd add another swamp over a forest because Blossoming Sands fixes your green.
Thanks again for taking the time to provide your input Magicmerl. I think you are right once again. I keep wanting to live the dream and forget about consistency. I will reply here if my trade partner has anything more attractive than the Abzan Falconer. He doesnt have any Ainok Bond-Kin currently.
Yeah, the Falconer would be my pick out of those options.
Just a thought, can you trade for manafixing lands? You already have a good number of playables, but you can't have too much fixing. I would go for any land that can provide you with two of your colours.
Yes we can. any cards of the same rarity. I would think the Falconer is much superior no? I eventually intend to drop the abzan guide eventually and go all in +1 counters benefiting eachother like in a Sliver deck.
The thing is, the marginal improvement between a Falconer and Hateblade/Brute could easily be smaller than the difference between a Forest and Blossoming Sands.
He refused to trade Siege Rhino but I am trying to get a Utter End if he finds interest in any of my rares. We open 4 packs next month for the new series and planeswalkers are bound to be more present on the board so this would be my only way to deal with them. Any other item of interest? Grim Haruspex, Mer-Ek Nightblade, Ainok Bond-Kin, Scoured Barrens?
I am itching to play hardened scales as I get more +1 sources but I know I shouldnt.
Could you guys provide any insight on the deck composition and the trade I should make?
Another month has passed and we opened 4 packs this time, 2 fate and 2 khan.
Notable additions: Abzan Battle Priest: Auto include, all my cards have +1+1 counters Abzan Skycaptain: Very tempting as it adds flying and Bolster will always be super good in this deck. Fits better than the 3/3 delve flyers I use to use. Wardscale Dragon: To costly, does nothing early game Noxious Dragon: To costly, does nothing early game Soulflayer: Doesnt beneficiate from Outlast unfortunately Sultai Emissary: Good Card. I would rather play a Ainok Bond-Kinor Disowned Ancestor though Feat of Resistance: Auto Include. +1+1 generator, protects from removal, can penetrate defense for a finish. Honor's Reward: Very tempting: Generates two +1+1 for cheap as an instant, gains life so it buys me time to get to endgame for Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Duneblast. Sandblast: Very good instant removal usable both on attack and defense, very tempting Douse in Gloom: Good vs morph. Gains me life. Not very good end game. I am not very tempted to include it. Harsh Sustenance: Great removal with gain life. I just need to have enough creatures but I usually never have no more than 3 or 4. Grim Contest: even better removal for me as I usually have big outlasted creatures, but no gain life. Fearsome Awakening: I dont think I have any use for this. Hunt the Weak: auto include: Removal with +1+1 generation
and... Ugin, the Spirit Dragon! auto include. It doesnt get affected by Duneblast and my deck tends to last long enough to use this bomb.
Comment on the last few matches: Hardened Scales makes me win games since I have so many +1+1 generators. I am always happy to play it.
I played a few unofficial games for testing with Retribution of the Ancients and I had a blast. It makes attacking and blocking a nightmare for my opponent and I often remove 3 creatures with it. It provides more control than having Outlast creatures with more +1+1. I am very tempted to integrate it. It does perform better when Hardened scales is on the table though and I am not always happy to see it.
My trade partner has Abzan Ascendancy that is of great interest to me and Incremental Growth, but he has more boosters to open so we will see.
The deck minimum is now 48 and I need 21 Lands to keep the 18/40 ratio.
Here is my current deck with room for the trade card, whatever it is. The sideboard is my pool. PW insight
Do you even have room for Abzan Ascendancy in your deck? I still think you want more 1-2 drops in white or black more than you want things that cost more than that. More early outlast duders. Or a Murderous Cut. And with your massive late game I think that the second Bitter Revelation is looking better and better.
Now that you have such a critical mass of outlast cards, I'm on board with Hardened Scales.
The way I see it, your deck looks something like this:
My trade partner finally opened his packs. He plays everything but green. Here are my best options in the order of priority.
Abzan Beastmaster: I think I can get easy draws with this cheap card with Disowned Ancestor and Woolly Loxodon. It could replace Bitter revelation Abzan Charm: Versatility of this card makes me want a second one. It is always welcomed. Mer-Ek Nightblade: Great combo with my 2 Ainok Bond-Kin and provides the missing Outlast ability to most of my creatures. Abzan Ascendancy: I am on the fence. It is no good on turn 3. Less versatile than the charm. But does add lots of pressure and longevity. Awesome synergy with Duneblast Dragonscale Boon: Very good trick for my heavy outlast deck Incremental Growth: Powerful card although a bit costly and requires 3 creatures on the board to cast efficiently. Would be a killer with Retribution of the Ancients and Hardened Scales Kin-Tree Invocation: Could be a turn 2 4/4... cheap enough to let me outlast and cast this same turn Hunt the Weak: one is probably enough? Jungle Hollow: Mana fixing aint as exiting but sure would help. I just lost an official match because I was short.
One question I have, how is ghostfire blade playing for you? I would think that in this deck it really isn't that great of a card as only having two morphs means that you are paying full cost for the equip, and for that I don't think it is worth it. Would be great trade material....
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Would you make any changes?
I am 5 win, 1 loss so far. Loss was vs a fast deck with Zurgo.
I'd make these changes:
- Hardened Scales
- Forest
- Bellowing Saddlebrute
+ 2 Swamp
+ Woolly Loxodon
I'd also look pretty hard at the 2nd Bitter Revelation and splashing Abomination of Gudul, but ultimately you already have a powerful deck and those probably wouldn't be improvements.
My loss was being mana short one game out of 2 and I wouldn't mind casting the Loxodon and Duneblast sooner with an extra mana.
Hardened scales rarely pays off so far so I agree with that as well. I will integrate it when I have more cards benefiting from it.
My brutes often give me a fast victory but I sometime harm myself with them so I agree one would be sufficient. They are a win more type of cards and the Loxodon is useful early and end game and I prefer that.
I don't have enough delve to justify a second bitter revelation I think.
I was also tempted by splashing for Abomination of Gudul but I think splashing blue to get a 4 type of mana base is to risky for the benefit.
I will wait for comments from others, but so far I would make all the changes you recommend.
Cards from this pack that I integrated in the deck:
Suspension Field Second one
Blossoming Sands
Other notable cards in the pack:
Retribution of the ancients
Throttle
And
Longshot Squad (I am already playing 2)
Salt Road Patrol (I now have 2 total)
Heart-Piercer bow
etc
I am allowed a single card trade: I have 3 cards of interest in the pool of the guy I am matched with for this months trade:
Abzan Falconer (my current first choice. I would have 2 total. Flying is key in this set and making all my creatures with counters fly is very though to deal with. Outlast cost is also cheap
Armament Corps (second choice?) Always a winner, but I think I need more early game cards. It does work very well with Hardened Scales and Retribution of the ancients It is rated 3.5 on channel fireball limited set review. I am really on the fence.
Mer-Ek Nightblade(third choice)Also great, but cost 4 and provides less evasion. It does provide me with an effect I didn't have though. Also is an awesome combo with Ainok Bond-Kin first strike ability
He also has Feat of Resistance and Kill Shot. He will open 2 packs tomorrow so I will edit this post if there is more of interest to me. (I only get one pack because I am in the lead)
What do you guys think of Retribution of the ancients in a Abzan heavy deck such as mine? Sounds a bit weak to me at first glance, but then again I Duneblast twice so I dont need to keep counters forever, I just need to last until the board wipe. It also acts as a possibility making my foe not want to attack or block into this without actually having to activate it. I could re-integrate Hardened Scales and a third Longshot Squad and the 2 Salt road Patrol to go all in outlast (ditch the Bellowing Saddlebrute and the 2 Abzan Guide. It could even kill my nemesis zurgo helmsmasher while it is indestructible. Re-usable removal saving my creatures could be worth it. Anafenza, the Foremost rarely last more than 2 turns. It would feed this enchantment and last longer. Swarm of bloodflies would also feed it. This would result in something like (assuming I got the Abzan Falconer as a trade) : https://deckbox.org/sets/847875?s=c&o=a Password: insight
And, considering the above, what card should I get as get as a trade?
So I'd go for this deck (cutting Mardu Hateblade and Bellowing Sandlebrute):
1 Ainok Bond-Kin
2 Abzan Falconer
1 Tuskguard Captain
2 Woolly Loxodon
2 Abzan Guide
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Longshot Squad
1 Armament Corps
2 Sultai Scavenger
1 Swarm of Bloodflies
2 Suspension Field
1 Debilitating Injury
2 Bitter Revelation
2 Duneblast
3 Blossoming Sands
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Scoured Barrens
3 Forest
4 Plains
7 Swamp
Manabase
W 5+4 sources for 9/2 cards/morphs
B 3+7 sources for 11/2 cards/morphs
G 5+3 sources for 7/4 cards/morphs
Curve
1 cs
2 csss
3 cccccccc
4 ccss
5 cccc
6+ss
Retribution of the Ancients and Hardened Scales are still bad cards that decrease the consistency of your deck. I wouldn't run them.
Abzan Battle Priest Most tempting in the new packs for lifelink, but the Abzan Falconer is more on curve, costs less and has 3 defence to trade with early morph.
Disowned Ancestor Would be awesome for early defence and the curve, but inferior to Abzan Battle Priest and Abzan Falconer. If he doesnt want to trade an uncommon, I will go for this one
Swarm of Bloodflies Insta token that works great with Hardened scales and the Duneblast, but to vulnerable and costly
Here is his pool btw: https://deckbox.org/sets/818156?s=a&o=a
I would say stick with the Abzan Falconer considering the above? What do you think??
Just a thought, can you trade for manafixing lands? You already have a good number of playables, but you can't have too much fixing. I would go for any land that can provide you with two of your colours.
If you could get a Sandsteppe Citadel I think it would be a no-brainer.
My booster pack was rewardfull with 3 playables: Disowned Ancestor, the all powerfull Abzan Charm and a fourth Blossoming Sands.
My rare was a weird Meandering Towershell
New deck card minimum is 46.
Here is my new deck and pool pw: insight
Here is my trades partners pool
He refused to trade Siege Rhino but I am trying to get a Utter End if he finds interest in any of my rares. We open 4 packs next month for the new series and planeswalkers are bound to be more present on the board so this would be my only way to deal with them. Any other item of interest? Grim Haruspex, Mer-Ek Nightblade, Ainok Bond-Kin, Scoured Barrens?
I am itching to play hardened scales as I get more +1 sources but I know I shouldnt.
Could you guys provide any insight on the deck composition and the trade I should make?
I am loving this league, fun stuff.
Do you really want Utter End? I think that Ainok Bond-Kin or Scoured Barrens will quietly do much more for you.
He didnt want to trade the Scoured Barrens as he is playing 5 colors.
Thanks again and see you next month for an update!
New deck: pw: insight
I removed Swarm of Bloodflies and one Debilitating Injury and added a land. I dont know if you recommend any other card to remove instead?
I removed the one Woolly Loxodon and a Bitter Revelation. I added a Swarm of Bloodflies and Hardened Scales. I know individually these cards arent great, but in this Abzan deck, they can really shine. The swarm adding to the flying pressure and has great synergy with the two Duneblast and hardened scales. HS will boost 75% of my creatures!
All in in Abzan deck pw insight
Lets say you would integrate Hardened Scales, how would you play it?
Notable additions:
Abzan Battle Priest: Auto include, all my cards have +1+1 counters
Abzan Skycaptain: Very tempting as it adds flying and Bolster will always be super good in this deck. Fits better than the 3/3 delve flyers I use to use.
Wardscale Dragon: To costly, does nothing early game
Noxious Dragon: To costly, does nothing early game
Soulflayer: Doesnt beneficiate from Outlast unfortunately
Sultai Emissary: Good Card. I would rather play a Ainok Bond-Kinor Disowned Ancestor though
Feat of Resistance: Auto Include. +1+1 generator, protects from removal, can penetrate defense for a finish.
Honor's Reward: Very tempting: Generates two +1+1 for cheap as an instant, gains life so it buys me time to get to endgame for Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and Duneblast.
Sandblast: Very good instant removal usable both on attack and defense, very tempting
Douse in Gloom: Good vs morph. Gains me life. Not very good end game. I am not very tempted to include it.
Harsh Sustenance: Great removal with gain life. I just need to have enough creatures but I usually never have no more than 3 or 4.
Grim Contest: even better removal for me as I usually have big outlasted creatures, but no gain life.
Fearsome Awakening: I dont think I have any use for this.
Hunt the Weak: auto include: Removal with +1+1 generation
and...
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon! auto include. It doesnt get affected by Duneblast and my deck tends to last long enough to use this bomb.
Comment on the last few matches:
Hardened Scales makes me win games since I have so many +1+1 generators. I am always happy to play it.
I played a few unofficial games for testing with Retribution of the Ancients and I had a blast. It makes attacking and blocking a nightmare for my opponent and I often remove 3 creatures with it. It provides more control than having Outlast creatures with more +1+1. I am very tempted to integrate it. It does perform better when Hardened scales is on the table though and I am not always happy to see it.
My trade partner has Abzan Ascendancy that is of great interest to me and Incremental Growth, but he has more boosters to open so we will see.
The deck minimum is now 48 and I need 21 Lands to keep the 18/40 ratio.
Here is my current deck with room for the trade card, whatever it is. The sideboard is my pool. PW insight
What do you guys think?
Do you even have room for Abzan Ascendancy in your deck? I still think you want more 1-2 drops in white or black more than you want things that cost more than that. More early outlast duders. Or a Murderous Cut. And with your massive late game I think that the second Bitter Revelation is looking better and better.
Now that you have such a critical mass of outlast cards, I'm on board with Hardened Scales.
The way I see it, your deck looks something like this:
2 Disowned Ancestor
2 Ainok Bond-Kin
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Abzan Falconer
1 Tuskguard Captain
1 Abzan Battle Priest
2 Longshot Squad
1 Armament Corps
1 Swarm of Bloodflies
1 Hardened Scales
1 Feat of Resistance
1 Hunt the Weak
1 Ghostfire Blade
2 Duneblast
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Removal (3)
2 Suspension Field
1 Abzan Charm
Other (4)
2 Woolly Loxodon
2 Bitter Revelation
Lands (21)
1 Jungle Hollow
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Scoured Barrens
3 Forest
4 Blossoming Sands
4 Plains
7 Swamp
or organised more conventionally
2 Ainok Bond-Kin
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Abzan Falconer
1 Tuskguard Captain
2 Woolly Loxodon
1 Abzan Battle Priest
2 Longshot Squad
1 Armament Corps
1 Swarm of Bloodflies
1 Ghostfire Blade
1 Feat of Resistance
2 Suspension Field
1 Abzan Charm
1 Hunt the Weak
2 Bitter Revelation
2 Duneblast
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Scoured Barrens
3 Forest
4 Blossoming Sands
4 Plains
7 Swamp
Curve
1 ccss
2 ccsss
3 ccccccs
4 cccsss
5 cc
6+sss
My trade partner finally opened his packs. He plays everything but green. Here are my best options in the order of priority.
Abzan Beastmaster: I think I can get easy draws with this cheap card with Disowned Ancestor and Woolly Loxodon. It could replace Bitter revelation
Abzan Charm: Versatility of this card makes me want a second one. It is always welcomed.
Mer-Ek Nightblade: Great combo with my 2 Ainok Bond-Kin and provides the missing Outlast ability to most of my creatures.
Abzan Ascendancy: I am on the fence. It is no good on turn 3. Less versatile than the charm. But does add lots of pressure and longevity. Awesome synergy with Duneblast
Dragonscale Boon: Very good trick for my heavy outlast deck
Incremental Growth: Powerful card although a bit costly and requires 3 creatures on the board to cast efficiently. Would be a killer with Retribution of the Ancients and Hardened Scales
Kin-Tree Invocation: Could be a turn 2 4/4... cheap enough to let me outlast and cast this same turn
Hunt the Weak: one is probably enough?
Jungle Hollow: Mana fixing aint as exiting but sure would help. I just lost an official match because I was short.
My current deck and pool before the trade: https://deckbox.org/sets/897532 pw: insight
What card should I try and get and why?
Bestmaster will replace a Bitter Revelation in the deck.