Really interesting pool. Red and white are unplayable as they frequently are in sealed, but it's interesting between the other three. I mean, red has your only removal, but geyser and outrage are unsplashable and the rest of the red is really bad so I don't think you can play it.
Your green isn't deep but clearly has the pool's best colours, with primeval bounty winning you basically every game that you cast it along with double mystic to accelerate into it. Ooze is gravy too:
But what to pair it with? Black is the first one I was attracted to, double reaver is really nice but the quality drops off quickly from there. these 13 are roughly your black playables:
1 Altar's Reap
1 Vampire Warlord
1 Tenacious Dead
2 Festering Newt
1 Undead Minotaur
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Accursed Spirit
1 Nightwing Shade
2 Liliana's Reaver
1 Xanthid Necromancer
But you have no removal, not even a deadly recluse, and no cocatrice and no giant spider - you're hideously weak to flyers and opposing creatures in general. If I ran the above 22, I'd run plummet as my 23rd. You also have virtually no good targets for auras, but you're playing three in the above list.
That's not a bad selection of cards. You have no essence scatter and no claustrophobia (not even a sensory deprivation!), which continues with the "no removal" theme though.
I don't think the GB is good, which means GU or BU splash bounty and maybe ooze (though ooze isn't so good on the splash). The mana on the splash gets really awkward though, with quite a lot of UU and BB cards, with no darkteel ignot to help out with the fixing.
In the end, I think I like the look of GU and aim to play it quite agressively with a late game backup plan. The mystics are clutch for accelerating out your bombs and divinations help find them.:
My first instinct is to try green/blue. Liliana's Reaver is nice and all, but the overall power level of black is very poor. I think blue has the most playables with green in second place, and your two best cards are Colossal Whale and Primeval Bounty. My (very quick) attempt at a build:
Again, very rough, fast attempt at a build. There are bound to be some changes that would make it better.
Curve
1 - cc
2 - ccs
3 - cccccccssss
4 - cccs
5 - s
6 - s
7 - c
The deck has two main problems. First, a glut of 3-drops, but A) you have two Elvish Mystics, which makes 3-drops specifically a lot better, and B) I'm less concerned about that than I would be about the likely glut of 4-drops in the UB deck.
Second, and this is more serious, the deck has an extreme shortage of removal, but that's because basically all your pool's removal is red or white, and at a glance both of those colors look short on playables. Admittedly, I haven't tried to build either of them, and maybe UW or UR is actually the correct build (regardless, I think you need blue to get to 23 playables). I'll leave it to someone else to explore those possibilities.
The best thing about this deck is that you're playing your two best cards alongside some card draw and acceleration to power them out.
It seems okay overall, but without removal I don't love it. If I had this pool, after building the above deck, I'd take a look at pairing blue with some other colors and see if one of those looks better.
Edit: It looks like psychobabble and I are converging on something very similar. I think our first drafts are the same except for -1 Scroll Thief +1 Archaeomancer.
Black also has 12. Normally I wouldn't include Warlord as a black playable, but he has the skeleton.
1 Vampire Warlord
1 Tenacious Dead
2 Festering Newt
1 Undead Minotaur
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Accursed Spirit
1 Nightwing Shade
2 Liliana's Reaver
1 Xanthid Necromancer
Maybe it's personal preference, but the power level of black COMBINED with the blue, especially the Condors makes it the choice for me. In a vacuum, perhaps the green is a bit stronger.
My only thoughts on the archaeomancer was that there wasn't very much to return with them, really only the diviniation. If there was an essence scatter in the pool, I would have gone with archaeomancer. Plus, scroll thief and 2x trained condor are ok.
Compare the cards that are genuinely good in black and green, though:
1 Primeval Bounty (competing with Colossal Whale for the title of best card in the pool)
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Enlarge
1 Rumbling Baloth
1 Rootwalla
1 Trollhide
2 Elvish Mystic (we could argue about exactly how good this is, but given the number of 3-drops in blue and the value of accelerating into Bounty/Whale, I think these are very good in this pool)
vs
2 Liliana's Reaver (the main attraction to black, admittedly)
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Accursed Spirit
(You could argue for Xathrid Necromancer as well, but I think it's generally mediocre in Limited, and this pool isn't doing it any favors)
To me, the green list looks a lot more promising. I think they only look comparable when you tally the total playables including chaff, because black is padded out with a lot of technically-playable chaff.
My only thoughts on the archaeomancer was that there wasn't very much to return with them, really only the diviniation. If there was an essence scatter in the pool, I would have gone with archaeomancer. Plus, scroll thief and 2x trained condor are ok.
I'm not sure which is right. You're right that we'd like more for them to return... maybe the second scroll thief main, replace with second archaeomancer if you board in (or decide to start) Plummet and/or Naturalize?
-1 Seacoast Drake
-1 Rod of Ruin
-1 Advocate of the Beast
+1 Naturalize
+1 Plummet
+1 Illusionary Armor
I went 6-3 with it, mainly losing to mana issues, but even then, I felt I built incorrectly. The lack of removal was a big issue for sure, even though I counted Disperse and Time Ebb as psudo-removal. With this lack of removal, I felt I should have gone with threat density instead and the black has that. Any of my opponents who had removal, they often went for the bomb-ier creatures rather than Trained Condor or Scroll Thief, which was quickly outclassed and did nothing, even if they came out T2 with Elvish Mystic. I think I overestimated how good they are in Sealed when compared to draft. At least in draft, you can consistently draft removal and tempo to make sure they get through, something I lacked. With Reaver and Mark, that increases the threat density and there’s only so much removal the opponent can have.
Count me in the camp of people who think that UG is the right build for this pool.
This pool has several problems, but the biggest one is the lack of removal. Green has Enlarge and... that's it. Blue has Disperse and Time Ebb (and Archeomancer). Black has ... nothing.
Secondly, the lack of two-drops is answered by running green for double Elvish Mystic.
-1 Seacoast Drake
-1 Rod of Ruin
-1 Advocate of the Beast
+1 Naturalize
+1 Plummet
+1 Illusionary Armor
I like all three - cards here over all of the + cards. If you ran the + cards than I guess I disagree with that.
yeah, i think you're overthinking it based on your results. you don't fix the pool's lack of removal by siding into black, which has no removal. You're better off with blue because of evasion (reaver is strong, but just trades off with heaps of things), and green because of raw strength. blue's card draw also helps you to dig towards the best card in your pool (bounty).
Black just has guys. Green has guys as well, but it also has the second best card in the set, acceleration to get you to it, the second or third best uncommon in the set (which plays a lot like a removal spell, which gives green more than black, ironically; that it works well with Archaeomancer is very relevant as well). A black/green deck will just have guys, guys, a Bounty, and more guys. The only time G/B becomes good is when you have enough removal and tricks to make it somewhat interactive, and this pool has neither.
U/G seems the correct choice to me.
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All right, maybe I am overthinking on the results. I like playing with Plummet and Naturalize MB since the M14 format has a lot of auras being played. Plummet get SB out if I don't see fliers, but removal is removal. I will admit the Armor was a mistake and should be something like Glimpse or Advocate.
I figured going GB would allow me to win through attrition.
I figured going GB would allow me to win through attrition.
Why? What do you think the word 'attrition' means? B adds more auras, which means that the opponents Claustrophobias and Pacifisms turn into 2-for-1s. You have LESS card advantage in black than in blue (Divination, Archeomancer).
Why? What do you think the word 'attrition' means? B adds more auras, which means that the opponents Claustrophobias and Pacifisms turn into 2-for-1s. You have LESS card advantage in black than in blue (Divination, Archeomancer).
I'm looking at the word 'attrition' as creature quality in this case. All too often, it was usually an T2/3 Scroll Thief or Scavenging Ooze, maybe get in one attack or two, and then get stopped by a 2/3 or Rumbling Baloth; basically, anything with a good size butt. They swing in, I can't trade profitability what with Scroll Thieves, Condors, and Archeomancers. Only plan is to try to draw and stabilize with a wincon.
I was thinking that at least with a higher power creature base in black, the combat and threats would keep the opponent at bay or at least offer one-for-ones. With a lack of removal, wouldn't a deck try to focus on getting through with having more (and better) creatures than the opponent?
That's not what attrition means. It means wearing away, which in the context of limited means trading creatures in combat.
What you really mean is that you struggled to trade with large creatures, so you wanted to use auras to increase the quality of your individual creatures. That's a decent plan if your opponent has no removal I guess, but as I've already stated, it's pretty weaksauce vs removal since it gives your opponent even more card advantage than you have already given them by removing the blue from your deck.
Your UG list already has a Colossal whale, a couple of 4/4s, an ooze, Trollhide, plus enlarge. I'm not really sure why you have such a fear of facing down a deck of bigger fatter creatures, since your list is already at the fat end of the spectrum.
Rather, I understand your problem of facing down an opponent you don't have removal for. But adding black and no removal in no way solves that problem.
In any case, have at it. I'll post the decklist I submitted as well as what deck I should have used later on.
EDIT: More info at Post 9.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10646838&postcount=9
1 Angelic Wall
1 Hive Stirrings
2 Show of Valor
1 Soulmender
1 Suntail Hawk
1 Charging Griffin
1 Banisher Priest
2 Celestial Flare
1 Stonehorn Chanter
2 Master of Diversion
1 Altar's Reap
1 Duress
1 Shrivel
1 Vampire Warlord
1 Tenacious Dead
2 Festering Newt
1 Undead Minotaur
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Accursed Spirit
1 Nightwing Shade
2 Liliana's Reaver
1 Xanthid Necromancer
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Plummet
1 Rootwalla
1 Rumbling Baloth
1 Enlarge
1 Trollhide
1 Naturalize
1 Advocate of the Beast
1 Gladecover Scout
1 Brindle Boar
1 Verdant Haven
1 Groundshaker Sliver
1 Lay of the Land
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Bounty
2 Trained Condor
2 Divination
1 Phantom Warrior
2 Scroll Thief
1 Warden of Evos Isle
1 Time Ebb
1 Disperse
1 Illusionary armor
1 Coral Merfolk
1 Glimpse the Future
1 Seacoast Drake
3 Archaeomancer
1 Colossol Whale
1 Dragon Egg
1 Dragon Hatchling
1 Seismic Stomp
1 Striking Sliver
1 Lightning Talons
1 Lava Axe
1 Goblin Shortcutter
1 Thunder Strike
1 Pitchburn Devils
2 Volcanic Geyser
1 Chandra's Outrage
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Cyclops Tyrant
1 Staff of the Flame Magus
1 Rod of Ruin
2 Vial of Poison
1 Staff of the Wild Magus
lol 2 Reavers.
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Your green isn't deep but clearly has the pool's best colours, with primeval bounty winning you basically every game that you cast it along with double mystic to accelerate into it. Ooze is gravy too:
But what to pair it with? Black is the first one I was attracted to, double reaver is really nice but the quality drops off quickly from there. these 13 are roughly your black playables:
But you have no removal, not even a deadly recluse, and no cocatrice and no giant spider - you're hideously weak to flyers and opposing creatures in general. If I ran the above 22, I'd run plummet as my 23rd. You also have virtually no good targets for auras, but you're playing three in the above list.
So what is there in blue?
That's not a bad selection of cards. You have no essence scatter and no claustrophobia (not even a sensory deprivation!), which continues with the "no removal" theme though.
I don't think the GB is good, which means GU or BU splash bounty and maybe ooze (though ooze isn't so good on the splash). The mana on the splash gets really awkward though, with quite a lot of UU and BB cards, with no darkteel ignot to help out with the fixing.
In the end, I think I like the look of GU and aim to play it quite agressively with a late game backup plan. The mystics are clutch for accelerating out your bombs and divinations help find them.:
1 Seacoast Drake
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Trained Condor
1 Phantom Warrior
1 Scroll Thief
1 Warden of Evos Isle
1 Rootwalla
1 Advocate of the Beast
1 Rumbling Baloth
2 Archaeomancer
1 Colossal Whale
1 Trollhide
2 Divination
1 Time Ebb
1 Rod of Ruin
1 Enlarge
1 Primeval Bounty
8 Island
Again, very rough, fast attempt at a build. There are bound to be some changes that would make it better.
Curve
1 - cc
2 - ccs
3 - cccccccssss
4 - cccs
5 - s
6 - s
7 - c
The deck has two main problems. First, a glut of 3-drops, but A) you have two Elvish Mystics, which makes 3-drops specifically a lot better, and B) I'm less concerned about that than I would be about the likely glut of 4-drops in the UB deck.
Second, and this is more serious, the deck has an extreme shortage of removal, but that's because basically all your pool's removal is red or white, and at a glance both of those colors look short on playables. Admittedly, I haven't tried to build either of them, and maybe UW or UR is actually the correct build (regardless, I think you need blue to get to 23 playables). I'll leave it to someone else to explore those possibilities.
The best thing about this deck is that you're playing your two best cards alongside some card draw and acceleration to power them out.
It seems okay overall, but without removal I don't love it. If I had this pool, after building the above deck, I'd take a look at pairing blue with some other colors and see if one of those looks better.
Edit: It looks like psychobabble and I are converging on something very similar. I think our first drafts are the same except for -1 Scroll Thief +1 Archaeomancer.
Green has 12 playables. You can argue for mainboard Naturalize and Lay of the Land I suppose.
2 Elvish Mystic
1 Rootwalla
1 Rumbling Baloth
1 Enlarge
1 Trollhide
1 Advocate of the Beast
1 Brindle Boar
1 Verdant Haven
1 Groundshaker Sliver
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Primeval Bounty
Black also has 12. Normally I wouldn't include Warlord as a black playable, but he has the skeleton.
1 Vampire Warlord
1 Tenacious Dead
2 Festering Newt
1 Undead Minotaur
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Accursed Spirit
1 Nightwing Shade
2 Liliana's Reaver
1 Xanthid Necromancer
Maybe it's personal preference, but the power level of black COMBINED with the blue, especially the Condors makes it the choice for me. In a vacuum, perhaps the green is a bit stronger.
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1 Primeval Bounty (competing with Colossal Whale for the title of best card in the pool)
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Enlarge
1 Rumbling Baloth
1 Rootwalla
1 Trollhide
2 Elvish Mystic (we could argue about exactly how good this is, but given the number of 3-drops in blue and the value of accelerating into Bounty/Whale, I think these are very good in this pool)
vs
2 Liliana's Reaver (the main attraction to black, admittedly)
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Accursed Spirit
(You could argue for Xathrid Necromancer as well, but I think it's generally mediocre in Limited, and this pool isn't doing it any favors)
To me, the green list looks a lot more promising. I think they only look comparable when you tally the total playables including chaff, because black is padded out with a lot of technically-playable chaff.
I'm not sure which is right. You're right that we'd like more for them to return... maybe the second scroll thief main, replace with second archaeomancer if you board in (or decide to start) Plummet and/or Naturalize?
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Trained Condor
1 Phantom Warrior
1 Scroll Thief
1 Warden of Evos Isle
1 Rootwalla
1 Rumbling Baloth
2 Archaeomancer
1 Colossal Whale
1 Trollhide
2 Divination
1 Time Ebb
1 Enlarge
1 Primeval Bounty
8 Island
-1 Seacoast Drake
-1 Rod of Ruin
-1 Advocate of the Beast
+1 Naturalize
+1 Plummet
+1 Illusionary Armor
I went 6-3 with it, mainly losing to mana issues, but even then, I felt I built incorrectly. The lack of removal was a big issue for sure, even though I counted Disperse and Time Ebb as psudo-removal. With this lack of removal, I felt I should have gone with threat density instead and the black has that. Any of my opponents who had removal, they often went for the bomb-ier creatures rather than Trained Condor or Scroll Thief, which was quickly outclassed and did nothing, even if they came out T2 with Elvish Mystic. I think I overestimated how good they are in Sealed when compared to draft. At least in draft, you can consistently draft removal and tempo to make sure they get through, something I lacked. With Reaver and Mark, that increases the threat density and there’s only so much removal the opponent can have.
And what I think I should've ran:
2 Festering Newt
1 Tenacious Dead
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Syphon Sliver
1 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Advocate of the Beast
1 Rootwalla
1 Rumbling Baloth
2 Liliana’s Reaver
1 Accursed Spirit
1 Nightwing Shade
1 Vampire Warlord
2 Mark of the Vampire
1 Enlarge
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Naturalize
1 Plummet
9 Forest
8 Swamp
BUg was another option, but after Scavenging Ooze performing like a champ, I'm hard pressed to exclude him.
This pool has several problems, but the biggest one is the lack of removal. Green has Enlarge and... that's it. Blue has Disperse and Time Ebb (and Archeomancer). Black has ... nothing.
Secondly, the lack of two-drops is answered by running green for double Elvish Mystic.
I like all three - cards here over all of the + cards. If you ran the + cards than I guess I disagree with that.
U/G seems the correct choice to me.
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I figured going GB would allow me to win through attrition.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
Why? What do you think the word 'attrition' means? B adds more auras, which means that the opponents Claustrophobias and Pacifisms turn into 2-for-1s. You have LESS card advantage in black than in blue (Divination, Archeomancer).
I'm looking at the word 'attrition' as creature quality in this case. All too often, it was usually an T2/3 Scroll Thief or Scavenging Ooze, maybe get in one attack or two, and then get stopped by a 2/3 or Rumbling Baloth; basically, anything with a good size butt. They swing in, I can't trade profitability what with Scroll Thieves, Condors, and Archeomancers. Only plan is to try to draw and stabilize with a wincon.
I was thinking that at least with a higher power creature base in black, the combat and threats would keep the opponent at bay or at least offer one-for-ones. With a lack of removal, wouldn't a deck try to focus on getting through with having more (and better) creatures than the opponent?
What you really mean is that you struggled to trade with large creatures, so you wanted to use auras to increase the quality of your individual creatures. That's a decent plan if your opponent has no removal I guess, but as I've already stated, it's pretty weaksauce vs removal since it gives your opponent even more card advantage than you have already given them by removing the blue from your deck.
Your UG list already has a Colossal whale, a couple of 4/4s, an ooze, Trollhide, plus enlarge. I'm not really sure why you have such a fear of facing down a deck of bigger fatter creatures, since your list is already at the fat end of the spectrum.
Rather, I understand your problem of facing down an opponent you don't have removal for. But adding black and no removal in no way solves that problem.