Last night I finally won my first draft. We had 14 people in a single elimination style draft. My first pack opened up a Megantic Sliver. So, of course there began the build of my sliver deck. So many slivers came my way I was wondering if anyone else even tried to build with slivers.And when a door of destinies followed by a Thorncaster Sliver came along, i knew I was gonna be whoopin some ass. The deck was strictly G/R/W. I grabbed 2 pacifisms 3shocks, and 2 fog. Those would be the strategy of my play to get my slivers thru. I would swing everything knowing he would block, then hope they would swing with their big blocker. A fog would leave them in tears as my whole army of slivers smashed to the face. The 3 hive stirrings prooved to be invaluable as a door of destinies was bringing them out as 3/3 or 4/4s. Was an awesome deck that now has 60 cards and smashes turn five for 20 to 30 damage. If u pull a gold sliver in draft go full sliver deck you won't be disappointed.
If it is, congrats on winning, but Fog is unplayable, and there's nothing you or we can learn from posting something like this. It's just a thread to brag, while something like a card pool list or specific draft picks you had to make could at least allow someone to offer advice, as I'm betting your deck and some of your picks were suboptimal. Winning a draft doesn't mean you didn't make mistakes.
If this is some kind of attempt to troll this forum, please don't bother.
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I hereby found the American Chapter of the Zealots of Semantics. All glory to The Curmudgeon.
Fog is pretty bad in general, but it naturally leads to blow-outs. Backed by some aggressive creatures against opponents with light removal, it can be very powerful.
Fog will never lead to a "blow-out," but it can allow you to steal a win if your opponents aren't playing around one of the oldest tricks in the book.
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My Decks: EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn Modern: Polytokes IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Basically, I think Fog can occasionally be good in a flat-out race. It's not maindeck worthy, that much is for sure. But, if you've got G/x stompy vs. G/x stompy on the draw, maybe give it a whirl... not that I have really. Just saying it might work.
Basically, I think Fog can occasionally be good in a flat-out race. It's not maindeck worthy, that much is for sure. But, if you've got G/x stompy vs. G/x stompy on the draw, maybe give it a whirl... not that I have really. Just saying it might work.
there was a good discussion about "races" a while ago on limited resources. Basically brian was saying, rightly I think, that the circumstances when races come up are so rare that it's not worth planning for them. There is no deck matchup where a race is inherently likely to happen. Agressive vs agressive or midrange vs agressive or any combination will sometimes find themselves in race situations. But they're much more likely to find themselves in stalled boards, or where one player is on the offensive and the other on the defensive. This is something you need to think about from your owne exprerience, but it maches up with mine. Basically if you agree with that, then you shouldn't play fog on the basis that it's good in races, because you shouldn't play cards that are only good in a situation that doesn't come up very often.
As has been mentioned many times around here, fog is strictly a sideboard card and only in very specific purposes. The main one in M14 is using it to counter enlarge, I can't think of any other spots that I'd want to use it off the top of my head.
I guess there is also the rare subset of decks that completely gear up to just win on "the big turn" a la Enlarge as you mentioned. Or something like Teleportal or maybe Blustersquall.
Pretty niche, janky sideboard no matter how you slice it.
Don't know why he would think i was trolling the forums... Fog did help a lot in each match i played in the draft but it would never make it into one of my 60 card standards if that's what u mean. U can say it's worthless but I used it in every game in every match and I don't think I would have won without it.
Don't know why he would think i was trolling the forums... Fog did help a lot in each match i played in the draft but it would never make it into one of my 60 card standards if that's what u mean. U can say it's worthless but I used it in every game in every match and I don't think I would have won without it.
I think that because we recently had a lengthy conversation about how threads like this have no real purpose other than to brag about accomplishments that usually end up riddled with mistakes and poor choices that the OP ends up ignoring because he thinks winning validates poor play.
I'm not saying that's what you're doing per se, but this defense of Fog and lack of actually relevant information about your draft leaves me with very few other options.
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Signalling is like farting: it's a natural thing that helps people avoid being where you are, and if you try to do it deliberately, things turn to crap fast.
Quote from Hardened »
I hereby found the American Chapter of the Zealots of Semantics. All glory to The Curmudgeon.
I'll back my partner in cynicism, Semantics. The original post seems specifically designed to bother strategists...let me count the ways:
Bragging
Too many people in the draft (why not break into 7 and 7? and 8 and 6? with 14 nothing wheels and you lose a strategic element of drafting)
Forcing your archetype based on a first pick rare, followed by that archetype being wide open and reinforcing a bad strategic decision
3 main colors
Bad cards working out perfectly in a small sample of situations
General attitude that winning the draft means you made correct decisions
If this story is 100% true then it's kind of amazing because reality has become more troll-y than trolls.
Too many people in the draft (why not break into 7 and 7? with 14 nothing wheels)
Phyrre, to be fair many stores break down the drafters into pods for the draft, but them combine the pool of drafters for matches, so when the OP says he "won a 14 player draft" he might not be referring to pod size but total drafter count.
Phyrre, to be fair many stores break down the drafters into pods for the draft, but them combine the pool of drafters for matches, so when the OP says he "won a 14 player draft" he might not be referring to pod size but total drafter count.
I know that. I think many draft purists would take issue with combining the pods for the matches. So either he was drafting with 14, or playing people who drafted from a completely different card pool. Part of the beauty of draft is that it's self-correcting -- even if the packs are terrible, everyone had to pick from terrible packs. That isn't true when you combine pods or "cross the streams" as it's referred to at my LGS.
We had 14 and once we passed a pack we didn't see it again. I guess it would have been nice to have 7 and 7 to see the same pack come back once but I've only played draft format there so I've never experienced anything but 14 or 13 all in same group. Also, some of you either take this too seriously or are just plain a-holes. I wasn't bragging by saying "i FINALLY won a draft" finally would imply I got my butt kicked quite a few times before winning. Sorry if this came off as bragging or even trolling (which I can't for the life of me see how my original post seemed like a troll). Im new to these forums and was only trying to share my victory as my first post. Now I'm sure the "pros" up there who said fog is useless will disagree but when my opponents were swinging at me with enlarged fire shrieker equipped flyers, it stopped multiple fatal attack phases. In the last match we had the whole store crowded around us watching and when I stopped the enlarged fire shrieker flyer that was swinging for 15 in the air with fog the crowd went nuts lol. But I'm still just learning, I've only been playing since return to ravnica came out. I will try to post the actual cards I drafted when I get home, I still have the deck as it was.
We had 14 and once we passed a pack we didn't see it again. I guess it would have been nice to have 7 and 7 to see the same pack come back once but I've only played draft format there so I've never experienced anything but 14 or 13 all in same group.
It should be 1 pod of 8 and one of 6, and you shouldn't play people who aren't in your pod.
Now I'm sure the "pros" up there who said fog is useless will disagree but when my opponents were swinging at me with enlarged fire shrieker equipped flyers, it stopped multiple fatal attack phases. In the last match we had the whole store crowded around us watching and when I stopped the enlarged fire shrieker flyer that was swinging for 15 in the air with fog the crowd went nuts lol.
If Card A is 'bad', that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad in every situation. Just that it contributes less to winning than alternative Card B.
I'm also curious as to how fog stopped multiple fatal attack phases. If you meant you had multiple fogs, and you had chosen to run playable creatures instead of them, then perhaps you would have just won by that point in the game already and not been in the position of needing to fog to not die?
I will try to post the actual cards I drafted when I get home, I still have the deck as it was.
Most of the important decisions are when you are drafting from boosters, not building your deck. So it's only really online drafts (look in the draftcap subforum for examples) where we can provide significant feedback. I think 'fog is bad' is about all you're going to get from this draft.
Also, some of you either take this too seriously or are just plain a-holes. I wasn't bragging by saying "i FINALLY won a draft" finally would imply I got my butt kicked quite a few times before winning. Sorry if this came off as bragging or even trolling (which I can't for the life of me see how my original post seemed like a troll). Im new to these forums and was only trying to share my victory as my first post.
I'll apologize on their behalf. The fact that new members join the forum is lost on people lately.
Well, fearing even more criticism, I will post my card choices for the sliver deck I used. Please give constructive criticism instead of douchebagery lol.
I had good success using act of treason on my opponents blockers swinging with them then pascifying it at end of my turn. Shock gave some removal and extra damage against a blocker to make sure it dies. Silence wasnt too useful. Hive stirrings with door of destinies was a really big game changer. Having 3 charge counters on the door caused the 2tokens to come out as 4/4s (one situation as 6/4 first strike haste). After luring opponent into swinging for a fatal attack phase by tapping out on my attack phase, fog would open the way for my fatal attack phase with the act of treason pascifism mentioned earlier. Any suggestions on making this into a 60 card standard besides getting rid of fog(I will get rid of fog lol)?
Fyi, you use deck tags (as in deck and /deck inside of []) and it'll automatically card-tag an entire list of cards.
Anyway, the only critique of your deck is that you have THREE cards that do absolutely nothing - fog x2 and silence. None of those should be in your main deck, they don't affect the board in any way. Fog can do something in a race situation, but races really do come up very infrequently and 9 times out of 10 you're better off with a card, ANY card, that does something more of the time. And despite what you might think, fog doesn't help you out when you're losing. If you play fog just to keep you alive for a turn then that's simply using up a card to give you and your opponent another draw step. Sure you get be lucky, but you haven't actually helped to dig yourself out of a hole and you're down a card on the deal. You are better off playing almost literally ANY creature or ANY meaningful combat trick (an instant, like show of valour or fortify or thunder striker or giant growth) over fog.
Do you have the pile of cards you didn't play? That would help as well, as Psychobabble is right. Heck, I'd go so far as to say that the Act of Treason is pretty bad too, as you aren't nearly aggressive enough to take advantage of it, and it's just a situational, mediocre Lava Axe in these decks.
To e honest, this deck looks pretty mediocre to me. You only have 3 power boosting Slivers, which means you'll likely draw 1 each game. If your opponent draws more removal spells or tricks than you draw pump Slivers, your team is going to simply be outsized the whole game, first strike or otherwise. Sliver decks need to punch through, and instant speed removal or even bounce can put you in a very awkward combat situation.
Honestly, the green in your deck is really awkward. You need it early for Predatory Sliver, but otherwise all you have is a bomb at 6 mana and 2 unplayable Fogs. Given that you need all 3 colors early, the land base for this deck should e awkward enough to cost you a couple games in any given tournament, and you have no fixing to mitigate this. In the future, try to center around 2 colors within the archetype rather than just snatch everything with the word "Sliver" on it. A guy at my local store drafted RW Slivers and made it through to the finals on the back of multiple Blur, Sentinel, and Battle Slivers and also thanks to a Thorncaster, and he actually (correctly) had a Predatory Sliver and Manaweft Sliver sitting in his sideboard.
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:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Signalling is like farting: it's a natural thing that helps people avoid being where you are, and if you try to do it deliberately, things turn to crap fast.
Quote from Hardened »
I hereby found the American Chapter of the Zealots of Semantics. All glory to The Curmudgeon.
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If it is, congrats on winning, but Fog is unplayable, and there's nothing you or we can learn from posting something like this. It's just a thread to brag, while something like a card pool list or specific draft picks you had to make could at least allow someone to offer advice, as I'm betting your deck and some of your picks were suboptimal. Winning a draft doesn't mean you didn't make mistakes.
If this is some kind of attempt to troll this forum, please don't bother.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
there was a good discussion about "races" a while ago on limited resources. Basically brian was saying, rightly I think, that the circumstances when races come up are so rare that it's not worth planning for them. There is no deck matchup where a race is inherently likely to happen. Agressive vs agressive or midrange vs agressive or any combination will sometimes find themselves in race situations. But they're much more likely to find themselves in stalled boards, or where one player is on the offensive and the other on the defensive. This is something you need to think about from your owne exprerience, but it maches up with mine. Basically if you agree with that, then you shouldn't play fog on the basis that it's good in races, because you shouldn't play cards that are only good in a situation that doesn't come up very often.
As has been mentioned many times around here, fog is strictly a sideboard card and only in very specific purposes. The main one in M14 is using it to counter enlarge, I can't think of any other spots that I'd want to use it off the top of my head.
Pretty niche, janky sideboard no matter how you slice it.
I think that because we recently had a lengthy conversation about how threads like this have no real purpose other than to brag about accomplishments that usually end up riddled with mistakes and poor choices that the OP ends up ignoring because he thinks winning validates poor play.
I'm not saying that's what you're doing per se, but this defense of Fog and lack of actually relevant information about your draft leaves me with very few other options.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Bragging
Too many people in the draft (why not break into 7 and 7? and 8 and 6? with 14 nothing wheels and you lose a strategic element of drafting)
Forcing your archetype based on a first pick rare, followed by that archetype being wide open and reinforcing a bad strategic decision
3 main colors
Bad cards working out perfectly in a small sample of situations
General attitude that winning the draft means you made correct decisions
If this story is 100% true then it's kind of amazing because reality has become more troll-y than trolls.
Phyrre, to be fair many stores break down the drafters into pods for the draft, but them combine the pool of drafters for matches, so when the OP says he "won a 14 player draft" he might not be referring to pod size but total drafter count.
I know that. I think many draft purists would take issue with combining the pods for the matches. So either he was drafting with 14, or playing people who drafted from a completely different card pool. Part of the beauty of draft is that it's self-correcting -- even if the packs are terrible, everyone had to pick from terrible packs. That isn't true when you combine pods or "cross the streams" as it's referred to at my LGS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE
It should be 1 pod of 8 and one of 6, and you shouldn't play people who aren't in your pod.
Congratulations. Have a cookie.
If Card A is 'bad', that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad in every situation. Just that it contributes less to winning than alternative Card B.
I'm also curious as to how fog stopped multiple fatal attack phases. If you meant you had multiple fogs, and you had chosen to run playable creatures instead of them, then perhaps you would have just won by that point in the game already and not been in the position of needing to fog to not die?
Ah, the age of innocence
Most of the important decisions are when you are drafting from boosters, not building your deck. So it's only really online drafts (look in the draftcap subforum for examples) where we can provide significant feedback. I think 'fog is bad' is about all you're going to get from this draft.
I'll apologize on their behalf. The fact that new members join the forum is lost on people lately.
Don't let it deter you.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
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My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
Creatures
3x striking sliver
2x blur sliver
2x sentinel sliver
1x predatory sliver
1x steelform sliver
1x battle sliver
1x thorncaster sliver
1x megantic sliver
Spells
3x hive stirrings
2x shock
2x fog
1x pacifism
1x act of treason
1x silence
Artifact
1x door of destinies
I had good success using act of treason on my opponents blockers swinging with them then pascifying it at end of my turn. Shock gave some removal and extra damage against a blocker to make sure it dies. Silence wasnt too useful. Hive stirrings with door of destinies was a really big game changer. Having 3 charge counters on the door caused the 2tokens to come out as 4/4s (one situation as 6/4 first strike haste). After luring opponent into swinging for a fatal attack phase by tapping out on my attack phase, fog would open the way for my fatal attack phase with the act of treason pascifism mentioned earlier. Any suggestions on making this into a 60 card standard besides getting rid of fog(I will get rid of fog lol)?
And right after your thread...
What thread? The one that dealt with that guy who actually was a troll?
How you should approach every game of Magic.
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My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
Anyway, the only critique of your deck is that you have THREE cards that do absolutely nothing - fog x2 and silence. None of those should be in your main deck, they don't affect the board in any way. Fog can do something in a race situation, but races really do come up very infrequently and 9 times out of 10 you're better off with a card, ANY card, that does something more of the time. And despite what you might think, fog doesn't help you out when you're losing. If you play fog just to keep you alive for a turn then that's simply using up a card to give you and your opponent another draw step. Sure you get be lucky, but you haven't actually helped to dig yourself out of a hole and you're down a card on the deal. You are better off playing almost literally ANY creature or ANY meaningful combat trick (an instant, like show of valour or fortify or thunder striker or giant growth) over fog.
To e honest, this deck looks pretty mediocre to me. You only have 3 power boosting Slivers, which means you'll likely draw 1 each game. If your opponent draws more removal spells or tricks than you draw pump Slivers, your team is going to simply be outsized the whole game, first strike or otherwise. Sliver decks need to punch through, and instant speed removal or even bounce can put you in a very awkward combat situation.
Honestly, the green in your deck is really awkward. You need it early for Predatory Sliver, but otherwise all you have is a bomb at 6 mana and 2 unplayable Fogs. Given that you need all 3 colors early, the land base for this deck should e awkward enough to cost you a couple games in any given tournament, and you have no fixing to mitigate this. In the future, try to center around 2 colors within the archetype rather than just snatch everything with the word "Sliver" on it. A guy at my local store drafted RW Slivers and made it through to the finals on the back of multiple Blur, Sentinel, and Battle Slivers and also thanks to a Thorncaster, and he actually (correctly) had a Predatory Sliver and Manaweft Sliver sitting in his sideboard.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance: