I have been watching some youtube draft videos of M14, and have been shocked at the terrible analysis of Voracious Wurm
Two improper analyses occur:
1) This is unplayable because I will never see the upside of a turn 2 5/5 wurm, and I never learned that green needs bears in limited.
2) I'll take it, but now I will over prioritize life gain and draft a weak deck. I would like to splash this doom blade, but that elixir would make my wurm a 7/7!!! Yes, it does and then it gets doom bladed.
I am not a swindler that frequents the taverns, trust me, if CMC = Power = Toughness, and CMC < 6, then it is playable in every limited deck.
If CMC = Power = Toughness, and CMC < 6, then it is playable in every limited deck.
Not every. It depends on the format. Speed of the format matters, whether they'll be able to get in damage matters, and whether they can handle threats on defense matters. Glory Seeker wasn't considered playable in Rise of Eldrazi. Tavern Swindler in RtR was crushed under the onslaught of 3/3s, 3/4s, 2/4s, etc.
Gutter Skulk was playable because he got in the way of Slaughterhorns, Skyjek, and Halberdiers.
M14 IS a format where a bear is good, fortunately. The only 2/2 for 2 at common are the green and white slivers. There's a bunch of 2/1s, and the extra defense helps avoid Wring Flesh, which is getting a reputation as a pretty good card because of it.
Predatory Sliver, Vigilance Sliver, and Voracious Wurm get played, all text aside. The first two is what makes going hardcore slivers so difficult, or at least part of it.
Heh, indeed. I think most of the forumgoers here know better than to get distracted by the extra text on Voracious Wurm.
That said, I made multiple 6/6 voracious wurms over the course of a recent draft. Mark of the Vampire on a different 2 power dude makes for some nice swings (on Cockatrice at least once).
EDIT: Though as a PSA, that formula does not apply to 1/1's for 1.
Most of those youtubers probably aren't making money to be honest. I think you have to get to a pretty high view count before you can get ad profit...
I could be wrong though.
It is more about the click-rate on ads. I suspect the popular people on YouTube are subsidizing their playing, but not making enough outright to counteract constant losses. Draft videos don't get nearly enough views to be that profitable.
Back on the topic of the Wurm, there are so many enchantments and auras around that Solemn Offering may be maindeckable. Time will tell on that.
So, let's say it's game 1 and you have a hand of Wurm, Brindle Boar, 3 lands, 2 mediocre 5-drops on the play; you play a land and say "go"; your opponent plays a land and says "go"; you draw a land. Do you just play bear-bear or do you hold out for the turn 4 6/6? I'm pretty sure you should just go bear-bear.
Does it matter if you opponent played an island/swamp/plains versus a forest/mountain on turn 1?
So, let's say it's game 1 and you have a hand of Wurm, Brindle Boar, 3 lands, 2 mediocre 5-drops on the play; you play a land and say "go"; your opponent plays a land and says "go"; you draw a land. Do you just play bear-bear or do you hold out for the turn 4 6/6? I'm pretty sure you should just go bear-bear.
Does it matter if you opponent played an island/swamp/plains versus a forest/mountain on turn 1?
Fairly certain in core set that the correct play is always develop your board as fast as possible. Also, in the scenario you outlined, you don't have a lot of action and you're hoping to draw into lands. In that situation, putting an opponent on his heels is probably the most correct.
So, let's say it's game 1 and you have a hand of Wurm, Brindle Boar, 3 lands, 2 mediocre 5-drops on the play; you play a land and say "go"; your opponent plays a land and says "go"; you draw a land. Do you just play bear-bear or do you hold out for the turn 4 6/6? I'm pretty sure you should just go bear-bear.
Does it matter if you opponent played an island/swamp/plains versus a forest/mountain on turn 1?
To nit-pick, Brindle Boar is not a "grizzly bear." It is a "Gray Ogre." Also, "tandem" means "one following the other" and a cucumber is technically a fruit.
If my opponent played Forest or Mountain, I would play the Boar first, then sac it and play the Wurm. Otherwise I'd go Wurm-Boar, as I'd be afraid of, respectively, Claustrophobia, Anything, and Celestial Flare.
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Alot of people seem to do this, they look at a card that is is fine without the extra upside, and then treat it as though its not playable unless they can make use of the upside.
They look at the Wurm as "I need lifegain to play this" instead of "Bear with upside". The same kind of thing happened with RTR especially early, where people would treat scavenge creatures as unusable unless they could also make amazing use of the scavenge ability, ignoring the fact that they did have the option to just play the creature.
Yeah. Only when the upside it easily achieved does everybody easily see the true value of the bear such as Syndic of Tithes.
Speaking of upside on bears...
Early on, let's jsut pack pack one pick 5,6,7, whatever... thus far you have no slivers or lifegain stuff. Given the choice between Voracious Wurm and Predatory Sliver, which do you pick?
Pack 1 Pick 5, 6, 7, whatever should not have Predatory Sliver in it. If it *is* in there, I'd call that a signal to move into slivers. Otherwise, it is still a fine green creature.
Predatory Sliver is a key enabler in an archetype that, while hard to put together, is getting a lot of attention around the tables. If you're seeing it that late, there is a reason.
I might point out that the 'Voracious Wurm' dilemma was first mentioned (to my knowledge) over 10 years ago... (my God...) when MaRo was relating how he played Kavu Titan incorrectly because he would always want to wait to kick it when sometimes the correct play is to just play the bear.
Voracious Wurm is just the latest in this series.
I would also 99% of the time ALWAYS take Predatory Sliver over Voracious Wurm if those are my choices, and this gets even more important if Slivers isn't open.
To be honest I'm really disappointed at the lack of skill on the average draft video. Seeing a person who is in blue hate draft off colour cards when he is in blue and there's a Armored Cancrix makes it clear to me that this guy is not worth watching.
Well, it depends how may playables he has and what pack it is. I never want to start to Armored cancrix in my deck...
Blue pretty commonly likes big ground butts. That guy in particular seems like a riposte to Rumbling Baloth.
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so few more weeks into the format, do people disagree with the title of this thread as much as me? bears seem to be actively bad in this format. They're not quite as bad as pikers are (they're REALLY bad here), but the number of 1/3s for 2, 2/3s for 3, 2/4s for 4 and other random bodies that clog up the ground make 2/2s barely playable imo. The best thing they have going for them is they can stop scroll thief from getting in, which can be done in a million other ways. Combined with the fact that there doesn't seem to be a true agressive deck in the format, do you even play voracious worm outside of a reasonable amount of lifegain in your deck?
In which Martin Juza calls bears "unplayable." Well, sorta.
I'm sure there's an aggro deck in here somewhere (maybe UR?) but it does seem like there are a lot of butts in the format.
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Two improper analyses occur:
1) This is unplayable because I will never see the upside of a turn 2 5/5 wurm, and I never learned that green needs bears in limited.
2) I'll take it, but now I will over prioritize life gain and draft a weak deck. I would like to splash this doom blade, but that elixir would make my wurm a 7/7!!! Yes, it does and then it gets doom bladed.
I am not a swindler that frequents the taverns, trust me, if CMC = Power = Toughness, and CMC < 6, then it is playable in every limited deck.
Not every. It depends on the format. Speed of the format matters, whether they'll be able to get in damage matters, and whether they can handle threats on defense matters. Glory Seeker wasn't considered playable in Rise of Eldrazi. Tavern Swindler in RtR was crushed under the onslaught of 3/3s, 3/4s, 2/4s, etc.
Gutter Skulk was playable because he got in the way of Slaughterhorns, Skyjek, and Halberdiers.
M14 IS a format where a bear is good, fortunately. The only 2/2 for 2 at common are the green and white slivers. There's a bunch of 2/1s, and the extra defense helps avoid Wring Flesh, which is getting a reputation as a pretty good card because of it.
Predatory Sliver, Vigilance Sliver, and Voracious Wurm get played, all text aside. The first two is what makes going hardcore slivers so difficult, or at least part of it.
That said, I made multiple 6/6 voracious wurms over the course of a recent draft. Mark of the Vampire on a different 2 power dude makes for some nice swings (on Cockatrice at least once).
EDIT: Though as a PSA, that formula does not apply to 1/1's for 1.
I realize that forum goers know better. So why don't more of you post draft videos? Youtubers are making money, and they suck a drafting.
I could be wrong though.
It is more about the click-rate on ads. I suspect the popular people on YouTube are subsidizing their playing, but not making enough outright to counteract constant losses. Draft videos don't get nearly enough views to be that profitable.
Back on the topic of the Wurm, there are so many enchantments and auras around that Solemn Offering may be maindeckable. Time will tell on that.
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Seriously, though...have enough people forgotten what 'core set' means that we're underrating bears at this point?
Shenanigans!
~M
Does it matter if you opponent played an island/swamp/plains versus a forest/mountain on turn 1?
Fairly certain in core set that the correct play is always develop your board as fast as possible. Also, in the scenario you outlined, you don't have a lot of action and you're hoping to draw into lands. In that situation, putting an opponent on his heels is probably the most correct.
TL;DR: Bear-Bear.
~M
Seen this several times and it's always pretty sexy.
To nit-pick, Brindle Boar is not a "grizzly bear." It is a "Gray Ogre." Also, "tandem" means "one following the other" and a cucumber is technically a fruit.
If my opponent played Forest or Mountain, I would play the Boar first, then sac it and play the Wurm. Otherwise I'd go Wurm-Boar, as I'd be afraid of, respectively, Claustrophobia, Anything, and Celestial Flare.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
They look at the Wurm as "I need lifegain to play this" instead of "Bear with upside". The same kind of thing happened with RTR especially early, where people would treat scavenge creatures as unusable unless they could also make amazing use of the scavenge ability, ignoring the fact that they did have the option to just play the creature.
Speaking of upside on bears...
Early on, let's jsut pack pack one pick 5,6,7, whatever... thus far you have no slivers or lifegain stuff. Given the choice between Voracious Wurm and Predatory Sliver, which do you pick?
Predatory Sliver is a key enabler in an archetype that, while hard to put together, is getting a lot of attention around the tables. If you're seeing it that late, there is a reason.
~M
Yes, Merfolk of the Pearl Trident has always been a playable limited card.
Voracious Wurm is just the latest in this series.
I would also 99% of the time ALWAYS take Predatory Sliver over Voracious Wurm if those are my choices, and this gets even more important if Slivers isn't open.
Blue pretty commonly likes big ground butts. That guy in particular seems like a riposte to Rumbling Baloth.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
In which Martin Juza calls bears "unplayable." Well, sorta.
I'm sure there's an aggro deck in here somewhere (maybe UR?) but it does seem like there are a lot of butts in the format.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge