So we will be drafting this in a week's time. Surprisingly enough, the set has yet to be completely spoiled, but that shouldn't dissuade us from discussion.
Honestly the first thing that really caught my eye was Moldervine Cloak was dropped to the common slot. Is it me, or is that just the most ridiculous thing that could happen? This card was so damn strong in RAV block at uncommon. Seems like it may be problematic as common at first glance.
Your thoughts on this and other cards? Post em' here!
Honestly the first thing that really caught my eye was Moldervine Cloak was dropped to the common slot. Is it me, or is that just the most ridiculous thing that could happen? This card was so damn strong in RAV block at uncommon. Seems like it may be problematic as common at first glance.
In a normal set, sure.
But this isn't a normal set. The overall power level is noticeably higher than normal, so cards which were previously bonkers are now merely good.
If they print all the spellbombs. I like the idea of drafting a bunch of Necrogen Spellbomb if you open an Academy Ruins. this gives you a late game lock.
A lot of cards I want in the set, I wouldn't want in a draft. Kinda is gonna make picks irritating. Choose a great draft card, Imperiosaur or a great card Dark Confidant.
I think if you can draft any archetype even semi-effectively it is going to be better than just good cards.Deck. Crummy dredge, affinity, storm, or faeries is still really strong in limited.
If they print all the spellbombs. I like the idea of drafting a bunch of Necrogen Spellbomb if you open an Academy Ruins. this gives you a late game lock.
A lot of cards I want in the set, I wouldn't want in a draft. Kinda is gonna make picks irritating. Choose a great draft card, Imperiosaur or a great card Dark Confidant.
I think if you can draft any archetype even semi-effectively it is going to be better than just good cards.Deck. Crummy dredge, affinity, storm, or faeries is still really strong in limited.
I choose BOB 1000 times out of 10.
Now, if you wanna compare a great draft pick against a $10 card you may have a valid argument; but unless you're in a top-notch competitive draft (GP/PT etc) where card value is irrelevant because you are playing for serious top-rank prizes, then I see the validity. I would love to sit to the left of a person taking imperio and passing me a BOB at my LGS.
I am not saying I won't take Bob. I mean the point of playing is to win pack to hope to open him or goyf so of course you take him. I just feel like it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. I hate taking cards for draft just cause they are money, especially when they aren't that good in draft
So we will be drafting this in a week's time. Surprisingly enough, the set has yet to be completely spoiled, but that shouldn't dissuade us from discussion.
Honestly the first thing that really caught my eye was Moldervine Cloak was dropped to the common slot. Is it me, or is that just the most ridiculous thing that could happen? This card was so damn strong in RAV block at uncommon. Seems like it may be problematic as common at first glance.
Your thoughts on this and other cards? Post em' here!
It's less of an issue because this is basically by spikes for spikes. If you notice, almost everything so far points to archetype drafting. So there will probably be a sweet G/X (perhaps even mono) aggro build alongside, Fae, Storm, UW Affinity, Dredge, etc. You can go a lot deeper with the power levels when people are trying to build decks over piles of good cards.
$30 per draft is an absurd price. If that's really what Constructed players want to pay for these cards then that's their business, but I'm having nothing to do with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
$30 per draft is an absurd price. If that's really what Constructed players want to pay for these cards then that's their business, but I'm having nothing to do with it.
$30 MM drafts? where? I have to pay $45 for prize support in paper for this set (cheapest drafts around, most others are $50 and up with $70-$100 sealed). $30 is a bargain!
@OP, this set has little to no synergy (so far) out side of a few cards. Every deck will be bestcard.dek which should lead to a very swingy format.
Did I read that correctly that Dampen Thought is a common? That can make milling a real thing if there is enough arcane to support it...
Probably much more likely to happen in sealed than draft, but it is a thing. Imperiosaur at common seems saucy too.
$30 MM drafts? where? I have to pay $45 for prize support in paper for this set (cheapest drafts around, most others are $50 and up with $70-$100 sealed). $30 is a bargain!
$30/draft is the MTGO price.
@OP, this set has little to no synergy (so far) out side of a few cards. Every deck will be bestcard.dek which should lead to a very swingy format.
Huh? Each two-color combination was specifically designed with a synergistic strategy in mind.
I will not be buying any of this ridiculously expensive product just to draft with it (nor will I ever use Magic Online again in my life; as appealing as the phantom drafts are it's still a concept I grew to loathe more every time I tried it out), but I would love to draft this format and would love it to become a great long-term format given the amount of work that apparently went into its conception. Thus, I am going to suggest that people save common and uncommon runs from actual packs they get; presumably the same ones will be used on Magic Online as well, from which it would be even easier to get said runs in an electronic form. Part of what balances Limited with fresh packs is the fact that they use print runs to color-balance the commons and uncommons - something that you're not going to do well yourself.
I am willing to do the work of creating proxies and maintaining the stock of cards to make packs from, as well as do any organization of data that others obtain, but I am not going to have the opportunity to collect my own data. I hope that there are enough others out there who find it a damn shame that what looks to be a great and nostalgic Limited format is going to be over and done with in no time. It remains to be seen whether it'll be as interesting to draft countless times compared to a well-constructed Cube, but I'd like to have the opportunity to find out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GENERATION 7: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the generation. social experiment.
Yeah, $30 to draft is a no go. I originally assumed the format was designed to be a pile of constructed-quality stuff that would make for a terrible draft format, and that was fine because I don't play Modern. Now most of their marketing around this product has been that it's a cross between cube draft and Time Spiral 2, and I think it's a shame that they spent all that effort balancing the format for limited. They've hit the sweet spot between being too overpriced for any casual or limited player, and not densely packed enough with staples for competitive constructed players to value them over singles.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
And WotC had to reduce the price of the online prereleases because they were too expensive.
I'm not going to pay more than twice as much for a Modern Masters draft as I would pay for a DGM draft, unless Modern Masters is more than twice as good as DGM. Which it almost certainly is not.
And WotC had to reduce the price of the online prereleases because they were too expensive.
I'm not going to pay more than twice as much for a Modern Masters draft as I would pay for a DGM draft, unless Modern Masters is more than twice as good as DGM. Which it almost certainly is not.
The value of MM will probably be significantly over twice that of DGM.
What about DGM sealed? Is that also not worth playing because it's twice as expensive as a draft but not twice as good?
Yeah, pretty much, which is why I haven't played any DGM sealed, outside of the prerelease (and that I only did in paper because I had friends going).
Also, going by current supernova prices the value is like 4.5 per pack. That is significantly more than twice the value of DGM, but at the same time the price of the draft set is twice as much and the entry fee is 4.5 times as much.
I am just looking at this as a prerelease with a chance to pull money or EDH staples I may need...I actually need a Feudkiller's Verdict to try in Trostoni deck. And at uncommon I think I can get one pretty easily.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am looking for Date Stamped promos from Khans of Tarkir block so I can finish my set. Check my wants if you have any.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
Lots of casual/limited players are perfectly happy to spend $30 on a prerelease or PTQ. Is spending $30 on a MM draft really any different?
you get 6 boosters in a prerelease, only 3 in a draft...so yeah, there is a big difference.
nevertheless i'm also going to draft this, probably just once, but it's going to be so much fun!
which archetype are you guys thinking of draft? WR giants seems fun, but i guess i won't pick up many cards i would be able to use in modern constructed decks....i might go UW artifacts
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
nevertheless i'm also going to draft this, probably just once, but it's going to be so much fun!
This is how I feel too. It looks like a blast, I'd love to draft it once. I don't think I could spend the money to draft it twice though!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Lots of casual/limited players are perfectly happy to spend $30 on a prerelease or PTQ. Is spending $30 on a MM draft really any different?
Yes. A prerelease is a one-time event where you get to see brand new cards, and it's a big social thing where all your friends meet up to do something together. An MM draft is something you do alone, on your computer. If you want to play a paper draft, it seems like the price is typically twice the price of a paper prerelease anyway, so yes, then too.
These cards are only more expensive because of their quality in constructed. The limited environment isn't any better, and probably actually a lot worse, than a good one like DGR. Why would a limited or casual player pay extra for that? The product isn't really any more than a From the Vaults pack with randomized contents, and a bunch of incoherent limited cards thrown in to dilute the set's monetary value.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Yes. A prerelease is a one-time event where you get to see brand new cards, and it's a big social thing where all your friends meet up to do something together. An MM draft is something you do alone, on your computer. If you want to play a paper draft, it seems like the price is typically twice the price of a paper prerelease anyway, so yes, then too.
There are online prereleases too, you know. There's no need to compare online to paper when you can compare online to online and paper to paper.
I'm also not defending the paper drafts with massively hiked entry fees (unless the prize support is similarly increased).
These cards are only more expensive because of their quality in constructed. The limited environment isn't any better, and probably actually a lot worse, than a good one like DGR. Why would a limited or casual player pay extra for that? The product isn't really any more than a From the Vaults pack with randomized contents, and a bunch of incoherent limited cards thrown in to dilute the set's monetary value.
What are you basing this on? How many MM drafts have you done so far?
Based on what they've said, I do expect the limited format to be better than normal. From DailyMTG:
Take a look at the design and development team for Modern Masters:
Max McCall
Erik Lauer
Ryan Spain
Shawn Main
Aaron Forsythe
That is a list of Spikey draft junkies right there. Having had personal experience with each of these people, I had a good idea what to expect from Modern Masters draft.
I expected complexity, depth, and nearly endless interaction. Core sets—and even expansion-level releases—have to carry a level of accessibility to newer players. They must be complex enough to satisfy the people who draft them 50–100 times (like me), but straightforward enough that if you only draft the set four or five times, you aren't feeling totally lost (like Fblthp).
Modern Masters takes the gloves off. If you love complex, interesting, deep Draft formats, this is for you. And why not? There are plenty of great products aimed at the broader audience: Planechase, Commander decks, Intro Packs, Duels of the Planeswalkers, the From the Vaults series, and so on.
But what about the hardcore enfranchised players? While often the most vocal group, and the one who makes up a big percent of the active Magic community, enfranchised players are demographically much smaller than the hoards of "casual" players who play Magic. (I used quotes around "casual" because I don't think it's the correct word, but it's the one that is used the most often). Modern Masters Draft is like a big "Thank you!" to the enfranchised players. It's varied, complex, and filled with fan favorites from years past.
I'm expecting this to be an amazing draft format. Granted, I'm mostly a constructed player and I'm doing these drafts for free(friend plays magic for cash and bank rolls me in all events since I always make him cash at the LGS), but I remember how fun Spiral draft was and I've drafted the dampen thought deck so I'm ecstatic for this format. Here's to drafting storm.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
There are online prereleases too, you know. There's no need to compare online to paper when you can compare online to online and paper to paper.
What are you basing this on? How many MM drafts have you done so far?
Based on what they've said, I do expect the limited format to be better than normal. From DailyMTG:
1) Comparing an MM event to an online prerelease is not a favorable comparison either. Online prereleases are not better in any way from regular tournaments. You don't pay extra for the "eventness" of it. You pay extra for the ability to sell new cards to suckers at inflated prices, which is a benefit MM will not offer.
2) I'll grant that the ability to play with old archetypes like Giants and Suspend/Storm sounds awesome. But the money cards in the format are not draft all stars, and considering how much it costs to draft these packs, price will taint every choice a casual player makes. I know it will because it already does, with events that cost half as much. Except now the decision to money draft will come up every other pick instead of once per draft. That's a major hurdle, and not one I can see any draft format overcoming. I'm not making any particular judgments about this set being crap for drafting, I'm just stating the obvious: the set doesn't have it in it to be an amazingly compelling draft format because there's too much else about it that distracts from that.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I'm expecting this to be an amazing draft format. Granted, I'm mostly a constructed player and I'm doing these drafts for free(friend plays magic for cash and bank rolls me in all events since I always make him cash at the LGS), but I remember how fun Spiral draft was and I've drafted the dampen thought deck so I'm ecstatic for this format. Here's to drafting storm.
Was talking about this today with a rather large group of limited players. We came to the conclusion its going to take time to adjust. We only know the power level of the cards from their original blocks. Now they are surrounded by the cream of the crop from multiple sets. Add in the needs of the players for their own collections and this set may not be all that great.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Honestly the first thing that really caught my eye was Moldervine Cloak was dropped to the common slot. Is it me, or is that just the most ridiculous thing that could happen? This card was so damn strong in RAV block at uncommon. Seems like it may be problematic as common at first glance.
Your thoughts on this and other cards? Post em' here!
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
In a normal set, sure.
But this isn't a normal set. The overall power level is noticeably higher than normal, so cards which were previously bonkers are now merely good.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
A lot of cards I want in the set, I wouldn't want in a draft. Kinda is gonna make picks irritating. Choose a great draft card, Imperiosaur or a great card Dark Confidant.
I think if you can draft any archetype even semi-effectively it is going to be better than just good cards.Deck. Crummy dredge, affinity, storm, or faeries is still really strong in limited.
I choose BOB 1000 times out of 10.
Now, if you wanna compare a great draft pick against a $10 card you may have a valid argument; but unless you're in a top-notch competitive draft (GP/PT etc) where card value is irrelevant because you are playing for serious top-rank prizes, then I see the validity. I would love to sit to the left of a person taking imperio and passing me a BOB at my LGS.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
It's less of an issue because this is basically by spikes for spikes. If you notice, almost everything so far points to archetype drafting. So there will probably be a sweet G/X (perhaps even mono) aggro build alongside, Fae, Storm, UW Affinity, Dredge, etc. You can go a lot deeper with the power levels when people are trying to build decks over piles of good cards.
Really? I won't.
$30 per draft is an absurd price. If that's really what Constructed players want to pay for these cards then that's their business, but I'm having nothing to do with it.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
$30 MM drafts? where? I have to pay $45 for prize support in paper for this set (cheapest drafts around, most others are $50 and up with $70-$100 sealed). $30 is a bargain!
@OP, this set has little to no synergy (so far) out side of a few cards. Every deck will be bestcard.dek which should lead to a very swingy format.
Probably much more likely to happen in sealed than draft, but it is a thing.
Imperiosaur at common seems saucy too.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
$30/draft is the MTGO price.
Huh? Each two-color combination was specifically designed with a synergistic strategy in mind.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
I am willing to do the work of creating proxies and maintaining the stock of cards to make packs from, as well as do any organization of data that others obtain, but I am not going to have the opportunity to collect my own data. I hope that there are enough others out there who find it a damn shame that what looks to be a great and nostalgic Limited format is going to be over and done with in no time. It remains to be seen whether it'll be as interesting to draft countless times compared to a well-constructed Cube, but I'd like to have the opportunity to find out.
I don't buy this.
Lots of casual/limited players are perfectly happy to spend $30 on a prerelease or PTQ. Is spending $30 on a MM draft really any different?
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I'm not going to pay more than twice as much for a Modern Masters draft as I would pay for a DGM draft, unless Modern Masters is more than twice as good as DGM. Which it almost certainly is not.
The value of MM will probably be significantly over twice that of DGM.
What about DGM sealed? Is that also not worth playing because it's twice as expensive as a draft but not twice as good?
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Also, going by current supernova prices the value is like 4.5 per pack. That is significantly more than twice the value of DGM, but at the same time the price of the draft set is twice as much and the entry fee is 4.5 times as much.
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
you get 6 boosters in a prerelease, only 3 in a draft...so yeah, there is a big difference.
nevertheless i'm also going to draft this, probably just once, but it's going to be so much fun!
which archetype are you guys thinking of draft? WR giants seems fun, but i guess i won't pick up many cards i would be able to use in modern constructed decks....i might go UW artifacts
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
This is how I feel too. It looks like a blast, I'd love to draft it once. I don't think I could spend the money to draft it twice though!
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Yes. A prerelease is a one-time event where you get to see brand new cards, and it's a big social thing where all your friends meet up to do something together. An MM draft is something you do alone, on your computer. If you want to play a paper draft, it seems like the price is typically twice the price of a paper prerelease anyway, so yes, then too.
These cards are only more expensive because of their quality in constructed. The limited environment isn't any better, and probably actually a lot worse, than a good one like DGR. Why would a limited or casual player pay extra for that? The product isn't really any more than a From the Vaults pack with randomized contents, and a bunch of incoherent limited cards thrown in to dilute the set's monetary value.
But the MM booster is like more than 2 normal boosters in value. So you're still getting your money's worth.
There are online prereleases too, you know. There's no need to compare online to paper when you can compare online to online and paper to paper.
I'm also not defending the paper drafts with massively hiked entry fees (unless the prize support is similarly increased).
What are you basing this on? How many MM drafts have you done so far?
Based on what they've said, I do expect the limited format to be better than normal. From DailyMTG:
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
1) Comparing an MM event to an online prerelease is not a favorable comparison either. Online prereleases are not better in any way from regular tournaments. You don't pay extra for the "eventness" of it. You pay extra for the ability to sell new cards to suckers at inflated prices, which is a benefit MM will not offer.
2) I'll grant that the ability to play with old archetypes like Giants and Suspend/Storm sounds awesome. But the money cards in the format are not draft all stars, and considering how much it costs to draft these packs, price will taint every choice a casual player makes. I know it will because it already does, with events that cost half as much. Except now the decision to money draft will come up every other pick instead of once per draft. That's a major hurdle, and not one I can see any draft format overcoming. I'm not making any particular judgments about this set being crap for drafting, I'm just stating the obvious: the set doesn't have it in it to be an amazingly compelling draft format because there's too much else about it that distracts from that.
Was talking about this today with a rather large group of limited players. We came to the conclusion its going to take time to adjust. We only know the power level of the cards from their original blocks. Now they are surrounded by the cream of the crop from multiple sets. Add in the needs of the players for their own collections and this set may not be all that great.