Ruric Thar is a definite house and there's nothing wrong with picking it, however I personally find it to be too unpredicable, especially its last ability, which can hit you as well. ("I'll cast Punish the Enemy, deal 3 dmg to this creature, 3 dmg to you, and 6 dmg to myself...")
I would take Putrefy. Carnage Gladiator is good but not on the same level as Putrefy. Krasis Incubation is ok but I wouldn't P1P1 it.
Incubation is probably p1 p1 pickable, but not in this pack. Probably the Putrefy over the bomb that might end up suiciding into a Ruination Worm or something.
I would take Ruric Thar. I think the power level difference between him and Putrefy is close enough where the pick is negligible.
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Quality Removal vs Big Guy who has to attack and penalizes noncreature spells. Putrefy is just plain good and will always be good in any deck it's in (heck you can even splash it). Ruric is good but not as good in Limited as he is in Constructed IMO. Limited just has less spells and more dumb creatures to block him. He's still good and if you're already ahead when you drop him you're probably going to win but I don't know if he's a super bomb. I mean especially with the common 2/4s and bears in the format it just seems like he's going to attack and die trading for 1/2 creatures...
The Gladiator is an awesome later pick, so unless someone has an amazing idea to stack them or is actively trying to dive headfirst into Rakdos because of "slower format"-itus, then it's possible it'll at least go late, But upon seeing this pack i pick Putrefy. However if Later Jund is open, i may start trying to go for that.
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I would go with krasis incubation. Blue removal is always much more powerful than it looks, just because blue decks need hard removal so badly and rarely get it.
Frankly, there are a million decent 6-8 mana finishers in the format at this point. I can probably pick up an axebane stag late in pack three, which will easily fill the same role as a ruric thar. However, my deck that has a lot of top-tier removal will actually get to the lategame. If you take the finishers over the removal, you'll just die to aggro.
Krasis incubation for me.
I don't think an arrest type effect is that much inherently worse than a destroy effect in limited. The fact that incubation is blue and even has another secondary mode make it a better card than putrify to me. I think I would always take incubation over putrify and either one over thar.
I'm not trying to call you out in particular, but this is why you need to actually provide reasons for what you're doing. There are valid arguments for ruric thar, but this isn't one of them. Almost nothing in magic is ever "obvious," and thinking so will eventually bite you - try to be open minded about cards and decks - it will only serve to help you in the long run.
I like Krasis Incubation but it's both slower and worse than Putrefy. Ruric Thar is good but it isn't as good as Putrefy, and it might not even be as good as Krasis Incubation. It's certainly replaceable.
I would take Ruric Thar. This isn't like GTC x3 where you could rarely, if ever, take six drops. I can see arguments for Putrefy.
For me, it's a personal preference in that I'd expect to be able to find some ramp in the form of Zhur-Taa Druid, Greenside Watcher, Verdant Haven and Gatecreeper Vine when the time comes. Plus I prefer RG over BG in this format, you can go aggro or take the ramp route and both are very solid options.
Whether or not it worked does not validate the play. That's hindsight probability. Let's say I offered you a bet -- I'm going to flip a coin and if it's heads, I'll give you 1 dollar but if it's tails, you'll give me 2 dollars. This is obviously a terrible bet for you. Accepting it is a bad decision. You can't justify it afterwards by arguing that you won the flip, therefore you made the right decision.
I would take Ruric Thar. This isn't like GTC x3 where you could rarely, if ever, take six drops. I can see arguments for Putrefy.
For me, it's a personal preference in that I'd expect to be able to find some ramp in the form of Zhur-Taa Druid, Greenside Watcher, Verdant Haven and Gatecreeper Vine when the time comes. Plus I prefer RG over BG in this format, you can go aggro or take the ramp route and both are very solid options.
It's not the fact that it costs six. It's not a very good six-drop. In my mind, it's a 6/6 with two disadvantages attached to it. Sure, it costs them 6 life to use a removal spell, but you also might end up suiciding it into an opposing creature or trick and remember, if you need to cast a removal spell, you're paying 6 as well.
I think the pick here is between the two removal spells, IMO. Big high-end curve things aren't difficult to find for any deck. The thing is, your finisher, whatever it is, isn't going to be cast until very late in the game. At that point, if you're ahead, it almost doesn't matter what it is. If the board is at relative parity, if you slam a large creature, you can probably swing the momentum in your favor. If you're behind in the game, the quality of your finisher matters more, because some 6-8 drops will bring you back from behind (say, angel of serenity) while other will likely not be very relevant (axebane stag).
Basically, really good 6-8 drops are very awesome, obviously, but removal spells, especially ones that are cheap and flexible, are generally going to be better in almost any game. The bar for a finisher to be better than a putrify or krasis incubation is very high, and I don't think ruric thar is good enough.
I'd go with ruric, but it's close.
A lot of people have been saying he just suicides himself into things, but keep in mind you'll be playing the colors of blood rush. I'm sure you can get at least 3-4 blood rushers even with one pack of gatecrash.
A lot of people have been saying he'll do 6 to you if you need to play a removal spell. I feel like in most cases, that would just be poor playing on your part. Of course, your opponent might play their own bomb creature you have to remove. In that case the 6 life will probably be worth it.
I'm pretty sure he's just a game winning bomb. Not the bombiest bomb, but game winning nonetheless.
Ruric Thar has not impressed me. He's better than Ruination Wurm, but not by as much as you'd think... it's mainly thanks to having reach, to be honest. The "6 damage" ability is WAY more symmetrical than many people realize. It definitely helps put your opponent away if you're significantly ahead when you play him, but if you're behind or at parity, a 6/6 that has to attack doesn't pressure your opponent to use removal in Limited the same way it's likely to in Constructed, and it makes it hard for you to use combat tricks to prevent him from trading down when he's forced to attack. I assume he's more exciting when you manage to get a ton of Bloodrush creatures, though.
Overall, I'd say he's better than your average 6-mana finisher, but not by so much that I'm in a hurry to snap him up over premium removal.
I'd take Putrefy here, with Krasis Incubation a very close second. Ruric Thar is a strong third place, but I'd definitely take either removal spell over him.
Ruric Thar is a creature that demands attention before your opponent can win the game. Even if it ends up running itself into some of the guys across the table for a 2-for-1, that's still perfectly fine. The vigilance is awesome because the "attacks each turn" doesn't force you into a damage race that you can't win. Even when it's playing offense, it gets to play defense too.
Seeing as how it will at least block and trade with their best guy, you pretty much can't lose while it's on the table. If you have other spells that you want to play, most of the time one of two things will happen - Either Thar will die allowing you to play spells again, or Thar will just win you the game meaning it didn't matter that you couldn't cast that spell.
Absolutely I would take Ruric Thar here. Putrefy is a great card, but we can manage to get by with other lesser cards for that role. There's no replacement for Ruric Thar.
Ruric Thar is a creature that demands attention before your opponent can win the game. Even if it ends up running itself into some of the guys across the table for a 2-for-1, that's still perfectly fine. The vigilance is awesome because the "attacks each turn" doesn't force you into a damage race that you can't win. Even when it's playing offense, it gets to play defense too.
Seeing as how it will at least block and trade with their best guy, you pretty much can't lose while it's on the table. If you have other spells that you want to play, most of the time one of two things will happen - Either Thar will die allowing you to play spells again, or Thar will just win you the game meaning it didn't matter that you couldn't cast that spell.
Absolutely I would take Ruric Thar here. Putrefy is a great card, but we can manage to get by with other lesser cards for that role. There's no replacement for Ruric Thar.
This all sounds reasonable, but having played with Ruric Thar at the prerelease and both with and against him in drafts since then, it just hasn't been my experience. Absolutely he's a good card, but the common view seems to be that he's this irreplaceable, can't-lose bomb, and I'm convinced that's untrue. Compared to other 6-mana creatures in DGR block, I would rate him below every mythic and all but a couple of the rares. I rate him above all the common and uncommon 6-drops, though a couple uncommons are reasonably close.
I'd say that describes a card that you want, and is a high pick, but not an unpassable bomb.
It's not the fact that it costs six. It's not a very good six-drop. In my mind, it's a 6/6 with two disadvantages attached to it. Sure, it costs them 6 life to use a removal spell, but you also might end up suiciding it into an opposing creature or trick and remember, if you need to cast a removal spell, you're paying 6 as well.
I think the pick here is between the two removal spells, IMO. Big high-end curve things aren't difficult to find for any deck. The thing is, your finisher, whatever it is, isn't going to be cast until very late in the game. At that point, if you're ahead, it almost doesn't matter what it is. If the board is at relative parity, if you slam a large creature, you can probably swing the momentum in your favor. If you're behind in the game, the quality of your finisher matters more, because some 6-8 drops will bring you back from behind (say, angel of serenity) while other will likely not be very relevant (axebane stag).
Basically, really good 6-8 drops are very awesome, obviously, but removal spells, especially ones that are cheap and flexible, are generally going to be better in almost any game. The bar for a finisher to be better than a putrify or krasis incubation is very high, and I don't think ruric thar is good enough.
Yeah but this is a six drop that punishes them for answering it. I don't terribly mind trading their removal for my Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and dealing them six damage in the process. Vigilance and reach are solid as well, I'd consider this guy a real game-changer when he hits the table.
If I have to play removal after dropping Ruric Thar THAT BADLY then it's probably worth taking the six, and is worth immediate attention. If a threat was already out, then I play my removal first and then play Ruric. If they play something worth killing right after I play Ruric, then I probably bite the bullet then smash.
You're also assuming the opponent has a trick when I attack yet somehow I have nothing. We could split hairs all day, who knows what either player will have or not have. But if they do have a trick, it's probably a noncreature trick that deals them six damage, and if I have a counter-trick there's a decent chance it's a Bloodrush card that doesn't hurt myself.
That said Putrefy is also a solid pick and could be better, like I said my pick is mostly preference since I like the option of going aggro OR ramp and I generally prefer RG over BG in this format.
Whether or not it worked does not validate the play. That's hindsight probability. Let's say I offered you a bet -- I'm going to flip a coin and if it's heads, I'll give you 1 dollar but if it's tails, you'll give me 2 dollars. This is obviously a terrible bet for you. Accepting it is a bad decision. You can't justify it afterwards by arguing that you won the flip, therefore you made the right decision.
This all sounds reasonable, but having played with Ruric Thar at the prerelease and both with and against him in drafts since then, it just hasn't been my experience. Absolutely he's a good card, but the common view seems to be that he's this irreplaceable, can't-lose bomb, and I'm convinced that's untrue. Compared to other 6-mana creatures in DGR block, I would rate him below every mythic and all but a couple of the rares. I rate him above all the common and uncommon 6-drops, though a couple uncommons are reasonably close.
I'd say that describes a card that you want, and is a high pick, but not an unpassable bomb.
I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't lose once he enters play. I meant that the game will likely not end before he dies. As you said, the downside to this card is that your opponent can plan for a favorable block against him. But even when that happens, you still end up ahead. If you manage to have a bloodrusher, then that play probably wins you the game too.
There are plenty of other bombs in this block, but we are only looking at Ruric Thar vs. Putrefy. I see it this way:
Given a worst case scenario where the rest of my deck turns out to be marginal, I'd rather have a marginal deck with Ruric Thar + filler removal spell (ex. Fatal Fumes), than a marginal deck with Putrefy + filler six-drop (ex. Ruination Wurm/Maze Rusher).
The thing is "filler removal" is still harder to come by then "filler big guys" (I'd rather have Putrefy + Filler Removal + Filler Big Guy than Ruric + Filler Removal btw) and the difference in quality is much greater. Most of the "good" things people are mentioning about Ruric (ie attack then blow them out with a bloodrush card when they gang block) can be done with a ruination wurm just as easily (even moreso because it can afford to sit back and wait till you draw the bloodrush/have the mana to attack) while "backup removal" (assuming you get some) often can't match Putrefy period (in cost or effect). Ruric punishes spells but again there aren't as many of those in limited alot of the time while bears and 2/4s are everywhere.
Wow, I'm glad I don't have to make this choice for real.
I'd probably pit Ruric, but I would go to time over it and spend the rest of the draft obsessing how Putrefy was, based on cards that are flowing, clearly the superior choice.
Then, next draft I'd make the opposite choice and end up GRW...
Krasis Incubation
Carnage Gladiator
Putrefy
Orzhov Cluestone
Dimir Cluestone
Boros Mastiff
Sinister Possession
Viashino Firstblade
Nivix Cyclops
Crypt Incursion
Rakdos Drake
Awe for the Guilds
Riot Control
Azorius Guildgate
I would assume that Ruric Thar would be the first choice, but the first four cards all seem pretty strong to me.
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Ruric stronk!
I would take Putrefy. Carnage Gladiator is good but not on the same level as Putrefy. Krasis Incubation is ok but I wouldn't P1P1 it.
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I guess I'd go Putrefy.
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Frankly, there are a million decent 6-8 mana finishers in the format at this point. I can probably pick up an axebane stag late in pack three, which will easily fill the same role as a ruric thar. However, my deck that has a lot of top-tier removal will actually get to the lategame. If you take the finishers over the removal, you'll just die to aggro.
Krasis incubation for me.
I don't think an arrest type effect is that much inherently worse than a destroy effect in limited. The fact that incubation is blue and even has another secondary mode make it a better card than putrify to me. I think I would always take incubation over putrify and either one over thar.
I'm not trying to call you out in particular, but this is why you need to actually provide reasons for what you're doing. There are valid arguments for ruric thar, but this isn't one of them. Almost nothing in magic is ever "obvious," and thinking so will eventually bite you - try to be open minded about cards and decks - it will only serve to help you in the long run.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
I like Krasis Incubation but it's both slower and worse than Putrefy. Ruric Thar is good but it isn't as good as Putrefy, and it might not even be as good as Krasis Incubation. It's certainly replaceable.
For me, it's a personal preference in that I'd expect to be able to find some ramp in the form of Zhur-Taa Druid, Greenside Watcher, Verdant Haven and Gatecreeper Vine when the time comes. Plus I prefer RG over BG in this format, you can go aggro or take the ramp route and both are very solid options.
It's not the fact that it costs six. It's not a very good six-drop. In my mind, it's a 6/6 with two disadvantages attached to it. Sure, it costs them 6 life to use a removal spell, but you also might end up suiciding it into an opposing creature or trick and remember, if you need to cast a removal spell, you're paying 6 as well.
I think the pick here is between the two removal spells, IMO. Big high-end curve things aren't difficult to find for any deck. The thing is, your finisher, whatever it is, isn't going to be cast until very late in the game. At that point, if you're ahead, it almost doesn't matter what it is. If the board is at relative parity, if you slam a large creature, you can probably swing the momentum in your favor. If you're behind in the game, the quality of your finisher matters more, because some 6-8 drops will bring you back from behind (say, angel of serenity) while other will likely not be very relevant (axebane stag).
Basically, really good 6-8 drops are very awesome, obviously, but removal spells, especially ones that are cheap and flexible, are generally going to be better in almost any game. The bar for a finisher to be better than a putrify or krasis incubation is very high, and I don't think ruric thar is good enough.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
A lot of people have been saying he just suicides himself into things, but keep in mind you'll be playing the colors of blood rush. I'm sure you can get at least 3-4 blood rushers even with one pack of gatecrash.
A lot of people have been saying he'll do 6 to you if you need to play a removal spell. I feel like in most cases, that would just be poor playing on your part. Of course, your opponent might play their own bomb creature you have to remove. In that case the 6 life will probably be worth it.
I'm pretty sure he's just a game winning bomb. Not the bombiest bomb, but game winning nonetheless.
Overall, I'd say he's better than your average 6-mana finisher, but not by so much that I'm in a hurry to snap him up over premium removal.
I'd take Putrefy here, with Krasis Incubation a very close second. Ruric Thar is a strong third place, but I'd definitely take either removal spell over him.
Seeing as how it will at least block and trade with their best guy, you pretty much can't lose while it's on the table. If you have other spells that you want to play, most of the time one of two things will happen - Either Thar will die allowing you to play spells again, or Thar will just win you the game meaning it didn't matter that you couldn't cast that spell.
Absolutely I would take Ruric Thar here. Putrefy is a great card, but we can manage to get by with other lesser cards for that role. There's no replacement for Ruric Thar.
This all sounds reasonable, but having played with Ruric Thar at the prerelease and both with and against him in drafts since then, it just hasn't been my experience. Absolutely he's a good card, but the common view seems to be that he's this irreplaceable, can't-lose bomb, and I'm convinced that's untrue. Compared to other 6-mana creatures in DGR block, I would rate him below every mythic and all but a couple of the rares. I rate him above all the common and uncommon 6-drops, though a couple uncommons are reasonably close.
I'd say that describes a card that you want, and is a high pick, but not an unpassable bomb.
Yeah but this is a six drop that punishes them for answering it. I don't terribly mind trading their removal for my Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and dealing them six damage in the process. Vigilance and reach are solid as well, I'd consider this guy a real game-changer when he hits the table.
If I have to play removal after dropping Ruric Thar THAT BADLY then it's probably worth taking the six, and is worth immediate attention. If a threat was already out, then I play my removal first and then play Ruric. If they play something worth killing right after I play Ruric, then I probably bite the bullet then smash.
You're also assuming the opponent has a trick when I attack yet somehow I have nothing. We could split hairs all day, who knows what either player will have or not have. But if they do have a trick, it's probably a noncreature trick that deals them six damage, and if I have a counter-trick there's a decent chance it's a Bloodrush card that doesn't hurt myself.
That said Putrefy is also a solid pick and could be better, like I said my pick is mostly preference since I like the option of going aggro OR ramp and I generally prefer RG over BG in this format.
I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't lose once he enters play. I meant that the game will likely not end before he dies. As you said, the downside to this card is that your opponent can plan for a favorable block against him. But even when that happens, you still end up ahead. If you manage to have a bloodrusher, then that play probably wins you the game too.
There are plenty of other bombs in this block, but we are only looking at Ruric Thar vs. Putrefy. I see it this way:
Given a worst case scenario where the rest of my deck turns out to be marginal, I'd rather have a marginal deck with Ruric Thar + filler removal spell (ex. Fatal Fumes), than a marginal deck with Putrefy + filler six-drop (ex. Ruination Wurm/Maze Rusher).
I'd probably pit Ruric, but I would go to time over it and spend the rest of the draft obsessing how Putrefy was, based on cards that are flowing, clearly the superior choice.
Then, next draft I'd make the opposite choice and end up GRW...
~M
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