I don't really see what you see in sentinel spider. Sure, you're correct that it and the angel have similar abilities and block similarly well, but Serra Angel blocks extremely well while also killing them. Sentinel Spider is just a 4/4 ground creature which isn't too hard to double block and kill in the worst case.
Uh, the pick is silklash spider?
I just mentioned sentinel spider to explain partially why I don't like serra angel in this format as much as the last few years.
I just mentioned sentinel spider to explain partially why I don't like serra angel in this format as much as the last few years.
And I disagree with your assessment that sentinel spider has anything to do with serra angel's playability, even a little bit.
I'm well aware that the original pick was between Angel and Silklash. While you're correct that Silklash is the right pick, adding some random reason that really doesn't make any sense only weakens your argument.
And I disagree with your assessment that sentinel spider has anything to do with serra angel's playability, even a little bit.
I'm well aware that the original pick was between Angel and Silklash. While you're correct that Silklash is the right pick, adding some random reason that really doesn't make any sense only weakens your argument.
This is a silly argument. Of course the existence of common, high-pick answers to an otherwise good card like Serra Angel makes it worse. How could it not? Cards aren't played in a vacuum.
Serra Avenger vs. Serra Angel is easily Serra Angel. It's bigger, it comes out at about the same time under optimal conditions, and the fact that they're both double white means that one isn't really easier to cast than the other most of the time anyway. It also trades with Sentinel Spider instead of just getting shut down by it.
I'd probably take Invocation over both, though. I'd rather be blue than white, its cost-to-power ratio is better than either of the others, and it combos nicely with an on-color Archaeomancer, where the Angels don't have any real opportunity to produce card advantage.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Invocation by a country mile, and it has absolutely nothing to do with signal sending. Talrand's Invocation is the set's best non-rare card, and it's better than a large portion of the rares available as well.
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Signalling is like farting: it's a natural thing that helps people avoid being where you are, and if you try to do it deliberately, things turn to crap fast.
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Invocation by a country mile, and it has absolutely nothing to do with signal sending. Talrand's Invocation is the set's best non-rare card, and it's better than a large portion of the rares available as well.
Yeah. Invocation is this set's lingering souls. I don't consider that pick close either.
This is a silly argument. Of course the existence of common, high-pick answers to an otherwise good card like Serra Angel makes it worse. How could it not? Cards aren't played in a vacuum.
Ok, I'll give you that Serra Angel is numerically worse than it would be without the existence of Sentinel Spider (admittedly I misunderstood your first argument, for some reason I though you were suggesting that Serra Angel is replaceable by the Spider). That being said, I think the numerical difference in power level that the spider creates for Angel is actually pretty low.
For instance, red, who used to be pretty good at killing her with Chandra's Outrage, now is basically cold to the 4/4. The Doom Blade to Murder downgrade also didn't help black in this fight.
So essentially, she got worse to green (although a 5 mana answer to a 5 mana question isn't the worst thing to ever happen), but much better vs red and a little better vs. black.
That's a really silly argument, because no one said that. The point that we're making is that serra angel was excellent in m11, and decent to good in m12, because there were smaller flyers and reach guys, and bloodthirst was a mechanic that mostly affected ground creatures. A 4/4 body in the air was really strong in those formats (although I would make the argument that serra angel was somewhat slow in m12).
In M13, there are significantly larger flyers and reach creatures, including a reach creature that specifically blanks serra angel (sentinel spider). There is also exalted, which means you can be getting slammed with a 4/4 or larger flyer on a fairly routine basis, but the attacker itself is expendable, as it's getting buffed by other dudes, creating unfavorable trade situations.
Serra angel is good in formats where it is a legitimate win condition that also doubles as a fine defensive card. A 4/4 body, flying, and vigilance have to be qualities that the format values highly. While the card is still an efficient creature, and certainly something you want in your deck, it is simply not as good as we're used to it being because of the way this core set's limited environment has been set up.
aw man, you caught my annoyed reply before I formulated a reasonable one!
Anyway, you argue that Exalted makes Serra Angel worse, which I guess makes sense (again not that much worse) if you can form enough of them (2 or 3). But Exalted shows up in black and white only (conveniently. Serra Angel is white and works very well with Exalted)
While you do make good points, I just can't agree with you when you say that Serra Angel isn't a legitimate win condition or even much worse in this format.
P1P1 Predatory Rampage or rancor
nothing else exciting in the packs, but picking either is a clear signal for the person next to me that green is open...
anyway i ends up picking Predatory Rampage and still manage to put together a pretty decent deck, and Predatory Rampage actually wins a couple of games for me. But just wondering what would you guys pick
Prey Upon vs. Garruk's Packleader vs. Sentinel Spider
Nighthawk vs. Shimian Specter vs. Murder
Knight of infamy vs. Public Execution vs. Essence Drain
1) Nighthawk. The Spider is great as a brick wall against flying threats, but it gives your opponent tons of time to answer it. Nighthawk is a much more active threat, and thus something I'd be happier first picking.
2) Prey Upon vs. Shimian Specter is a question of card advantage vs tempo. I'd take the Prey Upon since I mostly feel like tempo is more important in this format, but I could be wrong.
3) Prey Upon. 5 drops are just never going to be as high of a pick as high quality 1-mana removal. Prey Upon is insane.
4) Nighthawk as a first pick. Murder is way overvalued (it's great, but it's still unsplashable, 3-mana removal with no upside - not the world's highest priority 1st pick). Specter is a little on the slow side compared to the extremely high quality that is Nighthawk.
5) Public Execution. Knight of Infamy is speculative for the exalted deck, which is defensible but risky. Essence Drain is just not as good, by a long shot. Execution is a blowout.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Thragtusk in any kind of draft. Elderscale Wurm is just too expensive, and any bad decks without a way to deal with it you might face would also just lose to the Thragtusk, just faster.
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Signalling is like farting: it's a natural thing that helps people avoid being where you are, and if you try to do it deliberately, things turn to crap fast.
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Thragtusk in any kind of draft. Elderscale Wurm is just too expensive, and any bad decks without a way to deal with it you might face would also just lose to the Thragtusk, just faster.
1. It's between mutilate and oblivion ring. O-ring is more flexible and leaves you open but mutilate is has more potential value. In a P1P1 situation I'm going for mutilate because I like the more powerful card that gives you build around potential. Mutilate does however commit you to heavy black. I would probably time this one out and take mutilate but it's definitely close. Intrepid hero doesn't quite match up here.
2. These cards are fairly comparable in power level. It's hard to make a really strong case one way or the other. Pacifism is splashable, but murder has speed and can't be negated by a random naturalize. Knowing nothing about the format I'd take pacifism. Ask me again in a month.
I'd lean towards Pacifism too, although War Priest of Thune is back, so compared to M12 there's slightly more incidental accidental enchantment removal. (M12 only had Acidic Slime for that.) I also think that Naturalize is ever-so-slightly easier to justify bringing in in M13 than in M12. (The average quality of the uncommon artifacts has probably gone up.)
Thragtusk, for sure. That card is tough to beat, and I'm sure a foil one is shiny, too. It's not an unreasonable splash, either, though I would like to have at least like a prey upon or another good green card as well to make murdering my mana worthwhile.
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It sure, is. I took Flinthoof Boar to try to get away from drafting U/B but ended up doing it anyway, which might actually just be my curse for the duration of this draft season (not that I'm complaining; it's easily the best color combination). I think the "correct" pick is very close between Shade and Blight.
Here's an interesting one that might have already come up:
Uh, the pick is silklash spider?
I just mentioned sentinel spider to explain partially why I don't like serra angel in this format as much as the last few years.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
And I disagree with your assessment that sentinel spider has anything to do with serra angel's playability, even a little bit.
I'm well aware that the original pick was between Angel and Silklash. While you're correct that Silklash is the right pick, adding some random reason that really doesn't make any sense only weakens your argument.
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This is a silly argument. Of course the existence of common, high-pick answers to an otherwise good card like Serra Angel makes it worse. How could it not? Cards aren't played in a vacuum.
Serra Avenger vs. Serra Angel is easily Serra Angel. It's bigger, it comes out at about the same time under optimal conditions, and the fact that they're both double white means that one isn't really easier to cast than the other most of the time anyway. It also trades with Sentinel Spider instead of just getting shut down by it.
I'd probably take Invocation over both, though. I'd rather be blue than white, its cost-to-power ratio is better than either of the others, and it combos nicely with an on-color Archaeomancer, where the Angels don't have any real opportunity to produce card advantage.
Invocation by a country mile, and it has absolutely nothing to do with signal sending. Talrand's Invocation is the set's best non-rare card, and it's better than a large portion of the rares available as well.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Yeah. Invocation is this set's lingering souls. I don't consider that pick close either.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Ok, I'll give you that Serra Angel is numerically worse than it would be without the existence of Sentinel Spider (admittedly I misunderstood your first argument, for some reason I though you were suggesting that Serra Angel is replaceable by the Spider). That being said, I think the numerical difference in power level that the spider creates for Angel is actually pretty low.
For instance, red, who used to be pretty good at killing her with Chandra's Outrage, now is basically cold to the 4/4. The Doom Blade to Murder downgrade also didn't help black in this fight.
So essentially, she got worse to green (although a 5 mana answer to a 5 mana question isn't the worst thing to ever happen), but much better vs red and a little better vs. black.
That's a really silly argument, because no one said that. The point that we're making is that serra angel was excellent in m11, and decent to good in m12, because there were smaller flyers and reach guys, and bloodthirst was a mechanic that mostly affected ground creatures. A 4/4 body in the air was really strong in those formats (although I would make the argument that serra angel was somewhat slow in m12).
In M13, there are significantly larger flyers and reach creatures, including a reach creature that specifically blanks serra angel (sentinel spider). There is also exalted, which means you can be getting slammed with a 4/4 or larger flyer on a fairly routine basis, but the attacker itself is expendable, as it's getting buffed by other dudes, creating unfavorable trade situations.
Serra angel is good in formats where it is a legitimate win condition that also doubles as a fine defensive card. A 4/4 body, flying, and vigilance have to be qualities that the format values highly. While the card is still an efficient creature, and certainly something you want in your deck, it is simply not as good as we're used to it being because of the way this core set's limited environment has been set up.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Anyway, you argue that Exalted makes Serra Angel worse, which I guess makes sense (again not that much worse) if you can form enough of them (2 or 3). But Exalted shows up in black and white only (conveniently. Serra Angel is white and works very well with Exalted)
While you do make good points, I just can't agree with you when you say that Serra Angel isn't a legitimate win condition or even much worse in this format.
O Ring. Stuffy Doll is fine but very slow.
Prey Upon vs. Shimian Specter
p1p1, how would you rank:
Prey Upon vs. Garruk's Packleader vs. Sentinel Spider
Nighthawk vs. Shimian Specter vs. Murder
Knight of infamy vs. Public Execution vs. Essence Drain
Edit: rank as in #1, #2, #3 - not just which is #1
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P1P1
Predatory Rampage or rancor
nothing else exciting in the packs, but picking either is a clear signal for the person next to me that green is open...
anyway i ends up picking Predatory Rampage and still manage to put together a pretty decent deck, and Predatory Rampage actually wins a couple of games for me. But just wondering what would you guys pick
1. Vampire Nighthawk
2. Prey Upon
3. Sentinel Spider
4. Vampire Nighthawk
5. Public Execution I think (But I love me a Knight of Infamy so I might've took that)
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1) Nighthawk. The Spider is great as a brick wall against flying threats, but it gives your opponent tons of time to answer it. Nighthawk is a much more active threat, and thus something I'd be happier first picking.
2) Prey Upon vs. Shimian Specter is a question of card advantage vs tempo. I'd take the Prey Upon since I mostly feel like tempo is more important in this format, but I could be wrong.
3) Prey Upon. 5 drops are just never going to be as high of a pick as high quality 1-mana removal. Prey Upon is insane.
4) Nighthawk as a first pick. Murder is way overvalued (it's great, but it's still unsplashable, 3-mana removal with no upside - not the world's highest priority 1st pick). Specter is a little on the slow side compared to the extremely high quality that is Nighthawk.
5) Public Execution. Knight of Infamy is speculative for the exalted deck, which is defensible but risky. Essence Drain is just not as good, by a long shot. Execution is a blowout.
Silklash Spider
Prey Upon
After that:
Prey Upon #1 vs. Garruk's Packleader #3 vs. Sentinel Spider #2
Nighthawk #1 vs. Shimian Specter #3 vs. Murder #2
Knight of Infamy #2 vs. Public Execution #1 vs. Essence Drain #3
Which do you take in an 8-man?
What about in a team draft?
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Sphinx. He's slower but you get a bigger body and value as soon as the spell resolves. The ability to run over sentinel spider is also very relevant
1. It's between mutilate and oblivion ring. O-ring is more flexible and leaves you open but mutilate is has more potential value. In a P1P1 situation I'm going for mutilate because I like the more powerful card that gives you build around potential. Mutilate does however commit you to heavy black. I would probably time this one out and take mutilate but it's definitely close. Intrepid hero doesn't quite match up here.
2. These cards are fairly comparable in power level. It's hard to make a really strong case one way or the other. Pacifism is splashable, but murder has speed and can't be negated by a random naturalize. Knowing nothing about the format I'd take pacifism. Ask me again in a month.
Thragtusk, for sure. That card is tough to beat, and I'm sure a foil one is shiny, too. It's not an unreasonable splash, either, though I would like to have at least like a prey upon or another good green card as well to make murdering my mana worthwhile.
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Pack 1 pick 1:
Angelic Benediction
Safe Passage
Pillarfield Ox
Bloodthrone Vampire
Scroll Thief
Mountain
Naturalize
Liliana's Shade
Crippling Blight
Griffin Protector
Goblin Battle Jester
Timberpack Wolf
Flinthoof Boar
Gilded Lotus
Furnace Whelp
I think I'd probably take Liliana's Shade...
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Here's an interesting one that might have already come up:
Murder vs. Cower in Fear?