Disclaimer: I don't expect much to occur here just yet. I'm just getting set up. More will doubtless come once the majority of the set is in.
Purpose
This thread is to discuss BR strategies in Return to Ravnica Limited, with a greater emphasis on draft. Here we'll (eventually) be chattering about the good, the bad, the ugly, and in this case:
THE BEATFACE.
Notes of Interest
This thread is a social experiment (for people to be social, not to Skinner Box all of you) by yours truly. I was neither bribed, coerced, or in any way made to do this by another individual; it is strictly a product of my boredom in waiting for Prerelease (and the daily card leaks spoilers/previews).
Card tags will not work until the set is fully in magiccards.info. I include them now because it'd be a pain to do so en masse later; i.e. - efficiency!
Lists will be updated as moar cardz come in. I'll be watching, or if I look like I'm getting lazy, holler. With any luck, I was not Eaten by Spiders or something with an Appetite for Brains.
The major goal is to come to a general consensus. For example, if we do the time warp again and go back to Rise of the Eldrazi, one of the threads I would theoretically have created would have been a Leveler one, and as I recall there was quite a bit of animated discussion there, but in the end the general viewpoint was something along the lines of "Yes please", as I recall, especially with respect to Halimar Wavewatch.
Guilded Cards
A 'guilded card' is one that has the guild watermark or should, in the event of a possible misprint in this regard, such as Hypervolt Grasp having the Gruul guildmark in place of the Izzet one.
The Boss
... is having a siesta in Rix Maadi. It's naptime.
Support Cards
These are noteworthy cards that will undoubtedly play very well with Unleash or general Rakdos strategy. In other words, this list will be "cards to watch for".
For general discussion purposes, stick to commons and uncommons. You won't always be getting on-color/on-theme rares and mythics in the typical run of a draft format.
And for obvious reasons, cards from other guilds are allowed. (For example, if there was an Overload card that was 'mass tap target creature', that certainly qualifies here.)
Black Ogre Jailbreaker - I put this here not just because it's a 4/4 for four, but because the chances are good it's going to be an above-curve creature for black that you don't need to unleash to get what you want. It will help halt an opposing aggro rush, in short, or shore up your defenses if your opponent stabilizes from your unleashed early drops.
I'll start! Or some bold guy will beat me to the punch.
Personally, I think Unleash is "yes please" as far as deck interaction is concerned. What I mean is that it's the skill-tester mechanic of the set; I fail to see how "choose defense or above-curve offense" isn't such, anyway. The board situation will influence the choice, of course, but again, that's why I bring up the specific "support cards" section in the first place, which inevitably will pose the question of: "What works best for bringing the pain?"
For instance, Dead Reveler strikes me as very attractive for a three drop, even though it can't block if you unleash it. 3/4's for 3cmc are not exactly trivial. With Auger Spree to help out, that plus a turn 2 Grim Roustabout could potentially lead to some very early and aggressive pain.
I'll start! Or some bold guy will beat me to the punch.
Personally, I think Unleash is "yes please" as far as deck interaction is concerned. What I mean is that it's the skill-tester mechanic of the set; I fail to see how "choose defense or above-curve offense" isn't such, anyway. The board situation will influence the choice, of course, but again, that's why I bring up the specific "support cards" section in the first place, which inevitably will pose the question of: "What works best for bringing the pain?"
For instance, Dead Reveler strikes me as very attractive for a three drop, even though it can't block if you unleash it. 3/4's for 3cmc are not exactly trivial. With Auger Spree to help out, that plus a turn 2 Grim Roustabout could potentially lead to some very early and aggressive pain.
Dead Reveler is ridiculously above the curve in terms of black creatures, even for ones that can't block. I can't and won't argue that and will happily run that card in aggro builds.
As far as skill-testing goes, I dunno. Its not Graft. It seems very simple. Unleash if your aggro or ahead looking to get there, or don't unleash cause you need to block or your running control. As far as I can see, Unleash punishes people who can't mulligan properly.
Now, red Unleash creatures with haste? Lets see them spoilers.
It seems like Rakdos is the fast aggro guild of the format. As such, it really wants to play 2 colors so it can spend the early turns dropping threats instead of durdling around with Gates/Signets.
If it can manage this and most other strategies are spending the first few turns developing their mana, Rakdos will be very strong.
Unleashed seems like a card-by-card mechanic; other than the fact that aggro decks want to be aggro, you don't really benefit all that much from having a bunch of unleashed cards together. Each individual unleashed card kind of stands or falls on its own merit. Carnival Hellsteed surely stands unless BR decks end up just being disgustingly fast. High-power first strike creatures are just really hard to do anything profitable against in combat. All of the other ones seem fine at least and probably better.
This is probably making something out of nothing, but unleash creatures work slightly bad with Scavenge (something that is certain to come up in RRR limited, where Rakdos and Golgari decks are dipping into each others' card pools even if you're not playing Jund outright). Most creatures, if you need an imposing blocker, can be played and then Scavanged onto, but that stops Unleashed creatures from blocking. That's probably not worth caring about, but it's potentially a liability.
Unleashed seems like a card-by-card mechanic; other than the fact that aggro decks want to be aggro, you don't really benefit all that much from having a bunch of unleashed cards together. Each individual unleashed card kind of stands or falls on its own merit. Carnival Hellsteed surely stands unless BR decks end up just being disgustingly fast. High-power first strike creatures are just really hard to do anything profitable against in combat. All of the other ones seem fine at least and probably better.
This is probably making something out of nothing, but unleash creatures work slightly bad with Scavenge (something that is certain to come up in RRR limited, where Rakdos and Golgari decks are dipping into each others' card pools even if you're not playing Jund outright). Most creatures, if you need an imposing blocker, can be played and then Scavanged onto, but that stops Unleashed creatures from blocking. That's probably not worth caring about, but it's potentially a liability.
I thought something like that was normally called an interesting interaction between mechanics. I think it's cool that they work like that.
I don't like Unleash as a mechanic. The reason is that you're making a choice with no real benefit from choosing No. These are the non-unleashed cards you can play:
2/3 for 3
1/1 for 2 with Regenerate
5/4 First Strike, Haste for 6 (OK, that's still quite good but it's a rare)
The problem is that when you don't Unleash them, you're left with a very mediocre card. So really you only want Unleash in an Aggro deck, and if you're not Unleashing, you're losing. They're like split cards where 1 half is a crazy aggro creature and the other half is a lame Core Set creature.
I don't like Unleash as a mechanic. The reason is that you're making a choice with no real benefit from choosing No. These are the non-unleashed cards you can play:
2/3 for 3
1/1 for 2 with Regenerate
5/4 First Strike, Haste for 6 (OK, that's still quite good but it's a rare)
The problem is that when you don't Unleash them, you're left with a very mediocre card. So really you only want Unleash in an Aggro deck, and if you're not Unleashing, you're losing. They're like split cards where 1 half is a crazy aggro creature and the other half is a lame Core Set creature.
I disagree. Grim Roustabout actually seems better at most times when it's not Unleashed. Sure, on turn 2 it usually pays out to be aggressive, but later on you'll want it to help with board stability.
Dead Reveler, however, is definitely a card that's almost always better when Unleashed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The wedding is over. Now it's time for the honeymoon.
Purpose
This thread is to discuss BR strategies in Return to Ravnica Limited, with a greater emphasis on draft. Here we'll (eventually) be chattering about the good, the bad, the ugly, and in this case:
THE BEATFACE.
Notes of Interest
leaksspoilers/previews).Guilded Cards
A 'guilded card' is one that has the guild watermark or should, in the event of a possible misprint in this regard, such as Hypervolt Grasp having the Gruul guildmark in place of the Izzet one.
The Boss
... is having a siesta in Rix Maadi. It's naptime.
Creatures
Dead Reveler
Grim Roustabout
Carnival Hellstead
Rakdos Shred-Freak
Non-Creatures
Auger Spree
Dreadbore
Havoc Festival
Rakdos's Return
Slaughter Games
Support Cards
These are noteworthy cards that will undoubtedly play very well with Unleash or general Rakdos strategy. In other words, this list will be "cards to watch for".
For general discussion purposes, stick to commons and uncommons. You won't always be getting on-color/on-theme rares and mythics in the typical run of a draft format.
And for obvious reasons, cards from other guilds are allowed. (For example, if there was an Overload card that was 'mass tap target creature', that certainly qualifies here.)
Black
Ogre Jailbreaker - I put this here not just because it's a 4/4 for four, but because the chances are good it's going to be an above-curve creature for black that you don't need to unleash to get what you want. It will help halt an opposing aggro rush, in short, or shore up your defenses if your opponent stabilizes from your unleashed early drops.
Red
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Not a fan and not impressed. Works in ONE archtype. I can't even say it definetivley works.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
I'll start!Or some bold guy will beat me to the punch.Personally, I think Unleash is "yes please" as far as deck interaction is concerned. What I mean is that it's the skill-tester mechanic of the set; I fail to see how "choose defense or above-curve offense" isn't such, anyway. The board situation will influence the choice, of course, but again, that's why I bring up the specific "support cards" section in the first place, which inevitably will pose the question of: "What works best for bringing the pain?"
For instance, Dead Reveler strikes me as very attractive for a three drop, even though it can't block if you unleash it. 3/4's for 3cmc are not exactly trivial. With Auger Spree to help out, that plus a turn 2 Grim Roustabout could potentially lead to some very early and aggressive pain.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Dead Reveler is ridiculously above the curve in terms of black creatures, even for ones that can't block. I can't and won't argue that and will happily run that card in aggro builds.
As far as skill-testing goes, I dunno. Its not Graft. It seems very simple. Unleash if your aggro or ahead looking to get there, or don't unleash cause you need to block or your running control. As far as I can see, Unleash punishes people who can't mulligan properly.
Now, red Unleash creatures with haste? Lets see them spoilers.
How you should approach every game of Magic.
Mod Helpdesk (defunct)
My Flawless Score MCC Card | My Other One | # Three!
If it can manage this and most other strategies are spending the first few turns developing their mana, Rakdos will be very strong.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
This is probably making something out of nothing, but unleash creatures work slightly bad with Scavenge (something that is certain to come up in RRR limited, where Rakdos and Golgari decks are dipping into each others' card pools even if you're not playing Jund outright). Most creatures, if you need an imposing blocker, can be played and then Scavanged onto, but that stops Unleashed creatures from blocking. That's probably not worth caring about, but it's potentially a liability.
I thought something like that was normally called an interesting interaction between mechanics. I think it's cool that they work like that.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Bored? Watch this.
2/3 for 3
1/1 for 2 with Regenerate
5/4 First Strike, Haste for 6 (OK, that's still quite good but it's a rare)
The problem is that when you don't Unleash them, you're left with a very mediocre card. So really you only want Unleash in an Aggro deck, and if you're not Unleashing, you're losing. They're like split cards where 1 half is a crazy aggro creature and the other half is a lame Core Set creature.
I disagree. Grim Roustabout actually seems better at most times when it's not Unleashed. Sure, on turn 2 it usually pays out to be aggressive, but later on you'll want it to help with board stability.
Dead Reveler, however, is definitely a card that's almost always better when Unleashed.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!