I think I've been underestimating this card. It totally messes me up when its played on me, and I had huge help from it in winning a 4322 yesterday.
It seems its a pretty solid 3-5th pick. What are other's thoughts?
EDIT: Also, if you don't have stringent mana requirements for your two primary colors, would you consider splashing for some brains? I.e. in a situation where you have no low-CMC spells that require two colored mana.
It seems its a pretty solid 3-5th pick. What are other's thoughts?
I don't know if I'd typically pick it that high. It's playable, but never particularly exciting.
Indeed, I used to consider it very low grade filler until someone (urafever I think) pointed out I was playing it wrong. Instead of casting it on turn one whenever it's in your opening hand you should look to cast it on turn 3-5 with a view to leaving your opponent without a good play on the following turn. Used that way it can be quite a good tempo play as well as occasionally snagging a bomb.
--
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<Limited Clan>
Whenever it's in your opening hand you should look to cast it on turn 3-5 with a view to leaving your opponent without a good play on the following turn. Used that way it can be quite a good tempo play as well as occasionally snagging a bomb.
Yeah this is exactly what I realized over the last two days. Casting is when the opponent is at three lands doesn't only make it a tempo play, it also increases the chances that you will catch something good since he's drawn an additional 3-4 cards by that time.
I was playing a draft the second week up avacyn being out and i was constructing my deck when the guy across from me spilled his cherry kool-aid all over mine and his cards, he had a griselbrand and I had a cavern of souls.
This card isn't very good, just as Duress effects generally aren't.
The problems are simple.
The first, and this is a big one, you're paying mana and they aren't. Its not the same as a typical removal spell since they didn't devote any resources to it.
In limited, both your and your opponent's decks have fewer very important cards and more mediocre redundancy. The vast majority of decks are just play a dude and attack with said dude, and the dude is normally replaceable. You're less likely to disrupt a specific game plan with discard and you're also less likely to care if they have disruption for your game plan.
Finally, and this is specific to this card, it is very awkward in design. It costs one, so you want to cast it early as to not disrupt your curve, but it only takes cards that are largely irrelevant during the early turns. Then, later in the game, it can be hard to work in a black mana to cast it.
The first, and this is a big one, you're paying mana and they aren't. Its not the same as a typical removal spell since they didn't devote any resources to it.
Agreed on this one, although you're not always curving perfectly, so in practice its usually not that hard to work this one in.
In limited, both your and your opponent's decks have fewer very important cards and more mediocre redundancy. The vast majority of decks are just play a dude and attack with said dude, and the dude is normally replaceable. You're less likely to disrupt a specific game plan with discard and you're also less likely to care if they have disruption for your game plan.
Isn't this an argument FOR duress effects? You have very few bombs, and for only one mana you can get rid of something that might cost you 2-3 cards if played.
In addition, disrupting their plan by removing their next drop to allow your side to smash face for one more turn is really neat.
I'm not completely happy maindecking it but will gladly side it in if my opponent has one of the many backbreaking 4+ drops (Druids Familiar, Mist Raven, Seraph, Homicidial Secular, like 20 different bomb rares)
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It seems its a pretty solid 3-5th pick. What are other's thoughts?
EDIT: Also, if you don't have stringent mana requirements for your two primary colors, would you consider splashing for some brains? I.e. in a situation where you have no low-CMC spells that require two colored mana.
I don't know if I'd typically pick it that high. It's playable, but never particularly exciting.
Indeed, I used to consider it very low grade filler until someone (urafever I think) pointed out I was playing it wrong. Instead of casting it on turn one whenever it's in your opening hand you should look to cast it on turn 3-5 with a view to leaving your opponent without a good play on the following turn. Used that way it can be quite a good tempo play as well as occasionally snagging a bomb.
Definitely not.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Yeah this is exactly what I realized over the last two days. Casting is when the opponent is at three lands doesn't only make it a tempo play, it also increases the chances that you will catch something good since he's drawn an additional 3-4 cards by that time.
Oh, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:o
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Highest DCI Limited Rating: 2022
The problems are simple.
The first, and this is a big one, you're paying mana and they aren't. Its not the same as a typical removal spell since they didn't devote any resources to it.
In limited, both your and your opponent's decks have fewer very important cards and more mediocre redundancy. The vast majority of decks are just play a dude and attack with said dude, and the dude is normally replaceable. You're less likely to disrupt a specific game plan with discard and you're also less likely to care if they have disruption for your game plan.
Finally, and this is specific to this card, it is very awkward in design. It costs one, so you want to cast it early as to not disrupt your curve, but it only takes cards that are largely irrelevant during the early turns. Then, later in the game, it can be hard to work in a black mana to cast it.
Lastly, its black and this is AVR.
Agreed on this one, although you're not always curving perfectly, so in practice its usually not that hard to work this one in.
Isn't this an argument FOR duress effects? You have very few bombs, and for only one mana you can get rid of something that might cost you 2-3 cards if played.
In addition, disrupting their plan by removing their next drop to allow your side to smash face for one more turn is really neat.