I think the Top 5 is kind of debatable in terms of order, but top two would likely be either Ravnica or Rise of the Eldrazi. I heard Shards was a good block to draft, but I never did much of it. And I would argue that Kamigawa was a great limited format, it just sucked in constructed. Innistrad was a pretty good format, though Olivia was one of those 'cast me and win!' cards that leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. I also really enjoyed Mirrodin limited.
Worst 5, based on just popular opinion, would have to include Zendikar, Scars of Mirrodin (though I liked the format), Avacyn Restored, and M12. M11 was ok as far as I can recall, nothing phenomenal but not terrible either.
Note, 'worst' here is hard to objectively state; I think Scars has come the closest to being a 'broken' format because of Infect and how is skewed the environment into essentially two deck types (Metalcraft vs Infect), but some people (myself included) had fun.
If you include the MTGO-only Masters Edition sets, I always found those amusing. It's fun to play with really old cards. Also, being able to play older sets is fun too, though Saga is so horribly broken as a limited environment it's kind of crazy. Pestilence at common is just not good.
By modern magic, what time frame do you mean? Modern like the format, or modern as in since they started designing with a nod to drafting (roughly around Tempest)?
I would assume he means modern as in the Modern format. If so, I'd say top 5:
1. Time Spiral
2. Ravnica
3. Rise of the Eldrazi
4. Innistrad
5. Shadowmoor
(note that I haven't played too much Kamigawa or the first Mirrodin)
note that I haven't played too much Kamigawa or the first Mirrodin
Both are worth playing, especially CCB (Kamigawa), but neither would make you list, I suspect.
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Am I the only guy that thnks AVR is one of the best draft formats of the modern era?
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Make the white queen run so fast, she hasn't got time to make you wise.
Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace, like thoughts inside a dream.
Doctor, my eyes, tell me what you see. I hear their cries... just say if it's too late for me.
Doctor, my eyes...cannot see the sky. Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?
Note, 'worst' here is hard to objectively state; I think Scars has come the closest to being a 'broken' format because of Infect and how is skewed the environment into essentially two deck types (Metalcraft vs Infect), but some people (myself included) had fun.
I would strongly disagree that this was the case, particularly as the block went on. I found that there were plenty of decks to draft, and solid decks at that (though combinations like B/ were still pretty poor), and lots of interesting combos and interactions to build around. In my opinion, the only really unfortunate part of that format was the number of absolutely ridiculous, unbeatable rares, which was high enough to make the format average instead of very good.
I would strongly disagree that this was the case, particularly as the block went on. I found that there were plenty of decks to draft, and solid decks at that (though combinations like B/ were still pretty poor), and lots of interesting combos and interactions to build around. In my opinion, the only really unfortunate part of that format was the number of absolutely ridiculous, unbeatable rares, which was high enough to make the format average instead of very good.
My thoughts exactly. Infect and Metalcraft pushed decks in weird ways that I didn't much care for but the infinite board sweepers and giant insurmountable dudes made it a format of haymakers that left games feeling more like you got beat by a card and not by an archetype. Still the flavor and fun was there.
Top 5
Rise of the Eldrazi
Ravnica
TSP
Innistrad (pre Dark Ascension more but good either way)
Shards (It might not have been well balanced, especially after Alara reborn, but its fun to go 5 color play all the spells!)
Worst 5
Avacyn Restored
Zendikar
That's it, I think most other formats were playable with some more enjoyable than others. I genuinely didn't have fun playing these two outside of the prerelease and first couple drafts.
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Highest DCI Total Rating: 2041
Highest DCI Limited Rating: 2022
I was playing a draft the second week up avacyn being out and i was constructing my deck when the guy across from me spilled his cherry kool-aid all over mine and his cards, he had a griselbrand and I had a cavern of souls.
Why are we treating the block as a single format? I personally think that SOM is quite a different format from NMS, even though they are in the same block.
Note: Since there were 2 or 3 different formats from most blocks, I'm including only what I consider to be the best one of them. This is to be charitable.
Also note that my experience with many of these formats is... limited
Worst (starting with the worstest):
1. Coldsnap
2. M10
3. Avacyn Restored
4. ZZW (note: this means ZZZ was worse)
Then there are a bunch of average formats, but nothing really awful, so it's hard to pick a 5th one.
Best (starting with the best):
1. TPF
2. RGD
3. ROE
4. III
5. MD5
I don't think IPA counts as modern, so I didn't include it, but I think it is very good and would make the list.
Why are we treating the block as a single format? I personally think that SOM is quite a different format from NMS, even though they are in the same block.
This.
Best 3 single-set formats:
Triple ROE
Triple Champions
Triple TSP
Any combination of Ravnica drafts is up there for me, with full block being far and away the best. I'd really like to switch it up and draft it backwards sometime. I also really liked full-block Mirrodin; adding in Sunburst made for some very interesting and fun decks to draft. Can't think of others that really wow'd me that much. If you expand the question a bit farther back, I'd include Invasion drafting in my top formats.
Worst (in no particular crappy order):
Coldsnap
Full-block Kamigawa (1 or 2 set was ok; better enough to not be in the bottom 5)
Triple Innistrad (I never got the hang of this format; I went 1-2 more often than anything else)
M12
8th/9th edition
I didn't draft from Lorwyn through Rise more than a couple times per set, so I have no opinion on that era.
Best: (in order best of best to worst of best)
1. RAVNICA-GUILDPACT-DISSENTION (yeah I'm bias)
2. TIMESPIRAL-TIMESPIRAL-TIMESPIRAL
3. RoE-RoE-RoE
(after these sets I only can only honestly include sets since scourge because that is the first set I drafted so it is definitely effected by my bias. I wish that we could set up an invasion draft one time as I'm sure that was an awesome draft format.)
4. Mirrodin-Darksteel-Fifth Dawn
5. 10th-10th-10th
Worst: (in order from best of worst to worst of worst)
5. Lorwyn-Lorwyn-Morningtide
4. Shadowmoor-Shadowmoor-Eventide
3. Kamigawa (any form really)
2. Spanish Homelands (yes we did a Spanish homelands draft once and it was still more fun than Coldsnap draft simply because you had to look up what all the terrible cards were and the draft lasted longer due to more packs passed because homelands packs are only 8 cards.)
1. Coldsnap-Coldsnap-Coldsnap (seriously dumb, if you haven't played it do it)
I'll never understand why people didn't like Kamigawa. I've been playing since like 95, and Kamigawa is still one of my favourite blocks in both limited and constructed. It just offered so many cool things to do. Spirits, Splice, the Shrines, the legendary dragons, Spirit/Arcane decks. The only thing I hated about the block was probably the only thing anyone liked about the block, Jitte.
Top 5:
Kamigawa Block
3x Rise of Eldrazi
Mirrodin Block
3x Scars
Ravnica Block
I love when the blocks/sets let you make a "cohesive" deck. Like you could go with metalcraft in Scars, or Affinity in Mirrodin or spirit/arcane in Kamigawa.
I personally always HATED infect in limited though. I never understood why people were afraid of it or wanted to play it. Infect wasn't all that great in constructed when you could actually throw in a bunch of pump spells and randomly get that "BOOM! I win!" game. It still had to run a bunch of really crappy creatures, could totally lose the game to 1 well timed removal spell, and could get totally screwed if they managed to have enough chump blockers.
In limited Infect just seemed even worse. You were just running a bunch of overcosted, underpowered crap. Not to mention that most of the infect decks were really creature light. 1-2 removal spells was usually enough to guarantee a loss, let alone if the opponent had removal AND bigger creatures to block, which pretty much any even semi-functional limited deck did. I never tried playing Infect during Scars block and can't recall ever losing a match to it, and I'm easily the worst player I've ever known. It was like the only deck I could beat in limited.
Zendikar was hell in limited IMO. After winding up with a completely unplayable pile of crap and having to just drop out before the first round was called twice in a row during trip Zen, I wouldn't even draft if it was trip Zen anymore. It's like everyone was trying to play Allies and since that seemed to be the only thing you could build, I'd always end up with some 3 coloured waste of paper with like only 7 creatures all of which were over 5cc. Lordy, that was awful.
I'll never understand why people didn't like Kamigawa. I've been playing since like 95, and Kamigawa is still one of my favourite blocks in both limited and constructed.
COK was a fine set, deck registration issues aside. Jitte was a minor downer. Saviours turned limited into an abomination.
Here's my worst 5 limited sets (counting only real formats, not things like triple-small set):
1. ZEN
2. ZZW
3. AVR
4. CBS
5. Coldsnap
Best
1. Ravnica (pre M10 rules changes)
2. Rise of the Eldrazi
3. Innistrad
4. Lorwyn
5. Shadowmoor
Now there are some men with taste! <3 SSE (And I agree with bat here, who cares about the worst?)
1. Ravnica
2. Time Spiral
3. ROE
4. Shadowmoor
5t. Shards of Alara
5t. Lorwyn
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Why are people listing the core sets as the worst ones?
They are beginer sets, so are people factoring that in to their rating? or are they just really that bad?
Part of the reason I think AVR is pretty bad is because I expected more from the final set in Innistrad Block.
Makes me wish I got back into magic last fall instead of this spring. Innistrad Woudl have been awesome to play from the start.
Why are people listing the core sets as the worst ones?
They are beginer sets, so are people factoring that in to their rating? or are they just really that bad?
Part of the reason I think AVR is pretty bad is because I expected more from the final set in Innistrad Block.
Makes me wish I got back into magic last fall instead of this spring. Innistrad Woudl have been awesome to play from the start.
Core set can be a mixed bag; for some people, the straightforward nature of the format is refreshing from the 'gimmicky' block sets, and for other that translates to 'boring'. The pace can vary wildly too; M11 was a fun set to draft, while M12 got a lot of criticism because it felt like 2cc.dec half the time (or am I misremembering? I missed M12, so this is second hand). Lately though it feels like Wizards has been pushing core set to include more complicated and flashy cards, if not keywords; see the return of Rancor and Vampire Nighthawk in M13 for instance.
Best:
Ravnica
Time Spiral
Lorwyn
Rise of the Eldrazi
Zendikar (sue me, I like landfall)
Worst:
Avacyn Restored (everyone knows the top picks, so even an experienced drafter can get shut out often)
M10,M11 (uhhh..so boring)
Mirrodin Besieged/New Phyrexia
Why are people listing the core sets as the worst ones?
They are beginer sets, so are people factoring that in to their rating?
Personally, my ratings are how much I enjoyed playing the format. Even if Core Set is great for beginners it doesn't make the list, for the same reason that baby rice doesn't make my list of favourite foods.
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Also, Core Sets have been used for GPs and PTs, so I'm not factoring in the "for new players" part at all. Core Sets these days aren't really that, at least not like they used to.
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My top 5
Rise of the Eldrazi(I loved this format so much)
Innistrad
Ravnica
Time spiral
Shards of alara
Worst 5
Avacyn restored
Lorawyn
Kamigawa.
M11( Maybe i just don't like coreset that much.
M12
Worst 5, based on just popular opinion, would have to include Zendikar, Scars of Mirrodin (though I liked the format), Avacyn Restored, and M12. M11 was ok as far as I can recall, nothing phenomenal but not terrible either.
Note, 'worst' here is hard to objectively state; I think Scars has come the closest to being a 'broken' format because of Infect and how is skewed the environment into essentially two deck types (Metalcraft vs Infect), but some people (myself included) had fun.
If you include the MTGO-only Masters Edition sets, I always found those amusing. It's fun to play with really old cards. Also, being able to play older sets is fun too, though Saga is so horribly broken as a limited environment it's kind of crazy. Pestilence at common is just not good.
1. Time Spiral
2. Ravnica
3. Rise of the Eldrazi
4. Innistrad
5. Shadowmoor
(note that I haven't played too much Kamigawa or the first Mirrodin)
Worst:
1. Coldsnap
2. Zendikar
3. M10
4. Avacyn Restored
5. M12
Also, these are all complete blocks (TPF and not TTT, etc). Also not counting Core Sets pre-M10, since those weren't really supported draft formats.
1. Ravnica (pre M10 rules changes)
2. Rise of the Eldrazi
3. Innistrad
4. Lorwyn
5. Shadowmoor
Worst
Don't care!
Both are worth playing, especially CCB (Kamigawa), but neither would make you list, I suspect.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
RGD
Rise
OLS (just me?)
M11 (I went up, like, 150 points in this format)
---
Coldsnap
Zendikar
Scars
Kamigawa
AVR
Make the white queen run so fast, she hasn't got time to make you wise.
Pilot of the storm who leaves no trace, like thoughts inside a dream.
Doctor, my eyes, tell me what you see. I hear their cries... just say if it's too late for me.
Doctor, my eyes...cannot see the sky. Is this the prize for having learned how not to cry?
I would strongly disagree that this was the case, particularly as the block went on. I found that there were plenty of decks to draft, and solid decks at that (though combinations like B/ were still pretty poor), and lots of interesting combos and interactions to build around. In my opinion, the only really unfortunate part of that format was the number of absolutely ridiculous, unbeatable rares, which was high enough to make the format average instead of very good.
Probably!
Why do you think its one of the "best?" The lack of removal meant whoever opens up big bombs usually wins.
Since I have only truly drafted/started back into the game around M11, my incomplete list:
Best (no order)
1) Scars of Mirrodin
2) Innistrad
3) Rise of the Eldrazi
4) New Phyrexia
5) M11
Worst:
1) Avacyn Restored
2) M12
Now pre-Modern Invasion/Planeshift was fun with all the multi-colored cards.
My thoughts exactly. Infect and Metalcraft pushed decks in weird ways that I didn't much care for but the infinite board sweepers and giant insurmountable dudes made it a format of haymakers that left games feeling more like you got beat by a card and not by an archetype. Still the flavor and fun was there.
Top 5
Rise of the Eldrazi
Ravnica
TSP
Innistrad (pre Dark Ascension more but good either way)
Shards (It might not have been well balanced, especially after Alara reborn, but its fun to go 5 color play all the spells!)
Worst 5
Avacyn Restored
Zendikar
That's it, I think most other formats were playable with some more enjoyable than others. I genuinely didn't have fun playing these two outside of the prerelease and first couple drafts.
Highest DCI Limited Rating: 2022
Maybe I'm just weird.
Also note that my experience with many of these formats is... limited
Worst (starting with the worstest):
1. Coldsnap
2. M10
3. Avacyn Restored
4. ZZW (note: this means ZZZ was worse)
Then there are a bunch of average formats, but nothing really awful, so it's hard to pick a 5th one.
Best (starting with the best):
1. TPF
2. RGD
3. ROE
4. III
5. MD5
I don't think IPA counts as modern, so I didn't include it, but I think it is very good and would make the list.
This.
Best 3 single-set formats:
Triple ROE
Triple Champions
Triple TSP
Worst 3 single-set formats:
AVR
Coldsnap
ZEN
Best 3 block formats:
RGD
TPF
DII
Worst 3 block formats:
ZZW
LLM
NBS
Worst (in no particular crappy order):
Coldsnap
Full-block Kamigawa (1 or 2 set was ok; better enough to not be in the bottom 5)
Triple Innistrad (I never got the hang of this format; I went 1-2 more often than anything else)
M12
8th/9th edition
I didn't draft from Lorwyn through Rise more than a couple times per set, so I have no opinion on that era.
RGD
III (though DII is right there with it)
ROE
TPF
MD5
Worst (again, no particular order):
AVR
ZZZ
M12
Coldsnap
CBS
1. RAVNICA-GUILDPACT-DISSENTION (yeah I'm bias)
2. TIMESPIRAL-TIMESPIRAL-TIMESPIRAL
3. RoE-RoE-RoE
(after these sets I only can only honestly include sets since scourge because that is the first set I drafted so it is definitely effected by my bias. I wish that we could set up an invasion draft one time as I'm sure that was an awesome draft format.)
4. Mirrodin-Darksteel-Fifth Dawn
5. 10th-10th-10th
Worst: (in order from best of worst to worst of worst)
5. Lorwyn-Lorwyn-Morningtide
4. Shadowmoor-Shadowmoor-Eventide
3. Kamigawa (any form really)
2. Spanish Homelands (yes we did a Spanish homelands draft once and it was still more fun than Coldsnap draft simply because you had to look up what all the terrible cards were and the draft lasted longer due to more packs passed because homelands packs are only 8 cards.)
1. Coldsnap-Coldsnap-Coldsnap (seriously dumb, if you haven't played it do it)
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
Top 5:
Kamigawa Block
3x Rise of Eldrazi
Mirrodin Block
3x Scars
Ravnica Block
Bottom 5:
3x Zendikar
3x Coldsnap
3x Worldwake
Shards block
3x Shadowmoor
I love when the blocks/sets let you make a "cohesive" deck. Like you could go with metalcraft in Scars, or Affinity in Mirrodin or spirit/arcane in Kamigawa.
I personally always HATED infect in limited though. I never understood why people were afraid of it or wanted to play it. Infect wasn't all that great in constructed when you could actually throw in a bunch of pump spells and randomly get that "BOOM! I win!" game. It still had to run a bunch of really crappy creatures, could totally lose the game to 1 well timed removal spell, and could get totally screwed if they managed to have enough chump blockers.
In limited Infect just seemed even worse. You were just running a bunch of overcosted, underpowered crap. Not to mention that most of the infect decks were really creature light. 1-2 removal spells was usually enough to guarantee a loss, let alone if the opponent had removal AND bigger creatures to block, which pretty much any even semi-functional limited deck did. I never tried playing Infect during Scars block and can't recall ever losing a match to it, and I'm easily the worst player I've ever known. It was like the only deck I could beat in limited.
Zendikar was hell in limited IMO. After winding up with a completely unplayable pile of crap and having to just drop out before the first round was called twice in a row during trip Zen, I wouldn't even draft if it was trip Zen anymore. It's like everyone was trying to play Allies and since that seemed to be the only thing you could build, I'd always end up with some 3 coloured waste of paper with like only 7 creatures all of which were over 5cc. Lordy, that was awful.
COK was a fine set, deck registration issues aside. Jitte was a minor downer. Saviours turned limited into an abomination.
Here's my worst 5 limited sets (counting only real formats, not things like triple-small set):
1. ZEN
2. ZZW
3. AVR
4. CBS
5. Coldsnap
And the best:
1. ROE
2. RAV
3. RGD
4. MMD
5. INN
Now there are some men with taste! <3 SSE (And I agree with bat here, who cares about the worst?)
1. Ravnica
2. Time Spiral
3. ROE
4. Shadowmoor
5t. Shards of Alara
5t. Lorwyn
Why are people listing the core sets as the worst ones?
They are beginer sets, so are people factoring that in to their rating? or are they just really that bad?
Part of the reason I think AVR is pretty bad is because I expected more from the final set in Innistrad Block.
Makes me wish I got back into magic last fall instead of this spring. Innistrad Woudl have been awesome to play from the start.
Core set can be a mixed bag; for some people, the straightforward nature of the format is refreshing from the 'gimmicky' block sets, and for other that translates to 'boring'. The pace can vary wildly too; M11 was a fun set to draft, while M12 got a lot of criticism because it felt like 2cc.dec half the time (or am I misremembering? I missed M12, so this is second hand). Lately though it feels like Wizards has been pushing core set to include more complicated and flashy cards, if not keywords; see the return of Rancor and Vampire Nighthawk in M13 for instance.
Ravnica
Time Spiral
Lorwyn
Rise of the Eldrazi
Zendikar (sue me, I like landfall)
Worst:
Avacyn Restored (everyone knows the top picks, so even an experienced drafter can get shut out often)
M10,M11 (uhhh..so boring)
Mirrodin Besieged/New Phyrexia
Personally, my ratings are how much I enjoyed playing the format. Even if Core Set is great for beginners it doesn't make the list, for the same reason that baby rice doesn't make my list of favourite foods.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>