I wanted to SO BAD today because I was bored but when $ is tight, there is no point paying for an event with such bad pay-out and so little $ in cards to make up for the bad pay out.
I agree completely. They could at least offer the 3x DKA drafts at 20 Tix. But no, we have to wait a few more days to draft. Then I would "only" have to spend 20 tix to open 3 packs of DKA.
In summation.....Star Trek wins a prolonged naval battle against superior, yet less technologically advanced, numbers, with Picard leading the assault, while Kirk takes your soul by laying out Solo and probably his manservant Chewy as well, before impregnating and ditching your Princess.
I do not understand why anyone plays in the online Prereleases at all. Especially with the very worthwhile release events right around the corner.
Right now, I can enter a Sealed event for 30 tickets, getting prize support of 10/4/1. In one week I can enter a Sealed event for 24 tickets and get prize support of 13/8/3.
Right now, I can enter a draft for 20 tickets and get prize support of 4-2-2-2-1-1-1. Oh wait. I have to wait till Saturday to do that. Anyway, in a week I can enter a draft for 20 tickets and get prize support of 9-4-2-2 plus an additional free draft with huge prizes if I win the first draft. Oh yeah, and triple QPs.
They charge that because they can. When they opened the swiss queues yesterday they were firing off like crazy. There are a lot of people in the world without a convenient LGS and this is the first chance they get to play DKA.
I just realized that maybe the release events are supposed to be a kind of apology for making the prerelease payouts so abysmal. Like, "Okay, we're sorry about gouging you. Now, for those of you who like this game enough to still be interested in playing it without a huge hoopla and a special promo card, we'll throw you a bone."
The nice thing about playing in the prereleases is that everybody who can do math doesn't play in them. This means that if you actually bother to enter, the average player quality is so low that it's not hard to win (and thereby make a slight profit) as long as your deck isn't completely embarrassing.
I'm not sure why people are complaining. The cost/payout for the MTGO prereleases is very similar to what I see for paper prereleases, yet I haven't heard any complaints about paper prereleases being a ripoff.
Prizes at my local prerelease are 24 packs for 4-0 and 10 packs for 3-1. Words cannot describe how unimpressive I think the MTGO prerelease prizes are by comparison. I'm not asking for the MTGO prerelease to have that prize structure, but 10/4/1 is worse EV-wise as just buying packs, cracking them and selling the singles.
Prizes at my local prerelease are 24 packs for 4-0 and 10 packs for 3-1. Words cannot describe how unimpressive I think the MTGO prerelease prizes are by comparison.
It is my understanding the the standard prerelease prize support is 2 packs/person. 10-4-1 works out to exactly that. Your local store may be charging more for entry and/or adding to the prerelease prize pool out of their own pockets. That's nice of them, but not something you should expect.
I'm not asking for the MTGO prerelease to have that prize structure, but 10/4/1 is worse EV-wise as just buying packs, cracking them and selling the singles.
If you win half your games the expected payout from 10-4-1 is 2 packs. In other words, the expected return for your 30 tickets is 8 packs total. If you just bought 8 packs from the store, that would cost you 32.
The 4 packed sealed are awesome in so far as EV is concerned.
Yes, but then you have to play four pack sealed
That being said, the prereleases have always been like this..it's nothing new. They just capitalize on our boredom. The 20 dollar drafts are easily the most egregious, too. It's also annoying that I have like 20 packs of innistrad...that don't matter. They want their 30 pieces of blood money silver for this stupid mediocre return..
It is my understanding the the standard prerelease prize support is 2 packs/person. 10-4-1 works out to exactly that. Your local store may be charging more for entry and/or adding to the prerelease prize pool out of their own pockets. That's nice of them, but not something you should expect.
Kinda what I expect seeing as every store I know does that. Average payout for stores I know is at least a box for the winner out of 32 people, and that is over half the WOTC support right there.
But even for our campus prereleases, which gives 2 packs/person, it feels a lot more gratifying because I am playing against real people and the cards are physically there and I am seeing them for the first time (kind of). MTGO has none of the excitement and interaction so I don't really see what the allure is.
One of the stores I have gone to recently charges $25, but you can preregister for $20. The other one charges $25, period. Both give 2 packs per person in prize support.
MTGO charges $30, the cards are worth less, the experience is less good, and it's 3 weeks late.
John Doe needs a Wurmcoil. The store owner is selling them for $15. But John Smith has one for trade. He trades his Wurmcoil for a Bladehold that the store owner sells for $20. That's $35 in income that the store owner lost. Now, multiply that by the 30 or so people that play at the LGS and you can see how much money he loses in an evening.
Wizards of the coast pushes their boundaries of price exploitation of their product to the limit.
Its their business model, its gross, borderline unethical, but seems to work for them financially.
It also allows them to design some pretty sweet cards every year and create a pretty phenomenal product.
It's obviously not THAT out of whack, because of all the people willing to do it.
thankfully I got lucky and went 4-0 twice, 3-1 once and quit 0-2 once. Got some of my money back, but went into it knowing I was willing to pay for the experience. (IE feed my magic addiction).
The nice thing about playing in the prereleases is that everybody who can do math doesn't play in them. This means that if you actually bother to enter, the average player quality is so low that it's not hard to win (and thereby make a slight profit) as long as your deck isn't completely embarrassing.
This! Im not that good in magic, i play it online but surely im not amazing, i was able to win 10 packs in this sealed swiss easily.
I'm not sure why people are complaining. The cost/payout for the MTGO prereleases is very similar to what I see for paper prereleases, yet I haven't heard any complaints about paper prereleases being a ripoff.
Perhaps, but with 30-card decks 4-pack sealed is stupid in formats with mill.
I got 9 packs for 8th and 45 packs when I split the finals in my pre-releases.. (first one, prerelease day was 46 people, 1st was 2 boxes. second one was launch and had less than 20 people).
Modo prizes come no where close to this.
If you win half your games the expected payout from 10-4-1 is 2 packs. In other words, the expected return for your 30 tickets is 8 packs total. If you just bought 8 packs from the store, that would cost you 32.
So 10/4/1 is better EV-wise, not worse.
Who buys packs? Oh right, modo, where everything is overcharged. Please tell me why I can get boxes from $75-90 (which is $2-2.5 per pack) for a physical objects that require machinery to print and trucks and planes to ship and stores to have them locally..
But Magic online packs, which don't require shipping or stores and the only machinery that's needed is a server, costs 1.5-2x more? WTH?!?!!?!?!?
I don't think there's anything unethical about it.
It depends on your perspective on business ethics generally. Personally I find it hard to respect a game designer who makes money by deliberately making their customers unhappy. But then WotC isn't "a game designer", it's a corporation. They do this kind of thing routinely.
But Magic online packs, which don't require shipping or stores and the only machinery that's needed is a server, costs 1.5-2x more? WTH?!?!!?!?!?
You know why, though - right? Because MtGO is a monopoly, whereas game store owners have to be kept happy. When you find cheap paper cards it's because the margins added to the pack prices to keep inefficient brick-and-mortar stores in business get lowered for bulk deals, internet orders and so on. MtGO matches the full retail price as a matter of politics. Real costs don't come into it.
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I wanted to SO BAD today because I was bored but when $ is tight, there is no point paying for an event with such bad pay-out and so little $ in cards to make up for the bad pay out.
Right now, I can enter a Sealed event for 30 tickets, getting prize support of 10/4/1. In one week I can enter a Sealed event for 24 tickets and get prize support of 13/8/3.
Right now, I can enter a draft for 20 tickets and get prize support of 4-2-2-2-1-1-1. Oh wait. I have to wait till Saturday to do that. Anyway, in a week I can enter a draft for 20 tickets and get prize support of 9-4-2-2 plus an additional free draft with huge prizes if I win the first draft. Oh yeah, and triple QPs.
It's annoying for sure.
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The 4 packed sealed are awesome in so far as EV is concerned.
Perhaps, but with 30-card decks 4-pack sealed is stupid in formats with mill.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
It is my understanding the the standard prerelease prize support is 2 packs/person. 10-4-1 works out to exactly that. Your local store may be charging more for entry and/or adding to the prerelease prize pool out of their own pockets. That's nice of them, but not something you should expect.
If you win half your games the expected payout from 10-4-1 is 2 packs. In other words, the expected return for your 30 tickets is 8 packs total. If you just bought 8 packs from the store, that would cost you 32.
So 10/4/1 is better EV-wise, not worse.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Yes, but then you have to play four pack sealed
That being said, the prereleases have always been like this..it's nothing new. They just capitalize on our boredom. The 20 dollar drafts are easily the most egregious, too. It's also annoying that I have like 20 packs of innistrad...that don't matter. They want their 30 pieces of blood money silver for this stupid mediocre return..
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Kinda what I expect seeing as every store I know does that. Average payout for stores I know is at least a box for the winner out of 32 people, and that is over half the WOTC support right there.
But even for our campus prereleases, which gives 2 packs/person, it feels a lot more gratifying because I am playing against real people and the cards are physically there and I am seeing them for the first time (kind of). MTGO has none of the excitement and interaction so I don't really see what the allure is.
MTGO charges $30, the cards are worth less, the experience is less good, and it's 3 weeks late.
Its their business model, its gross, borderline unethical, but seems to work for them financially.
It also allows them to design some pretty sweet cards every year and create a pretty phenomenal product.
It's obviously not THAT out of whack, because of all the people willing to do it.
thankfully I got lucky and went 4-0 twice, 3-1 once and quit 0-2 once. Got some of my money back, but went into it knowing I was willing to pay for the experience. (IE feed my magic addiction).
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This! Im not that good in magic, i play it online but surely im not amazing, i was able to win 10 packs in this sealed swiss easily.
I got 9 packs for 8th and 45 packs when I split the finals in my pre-releases.. (first one, prerelease day was 46 people, 1st was 2 boxes. second one was launch and had less than 20 people).
Modo prizes come no where close to this.
Who buys packs? Oh right, modo, where everything is overcharged. Please tell me why I can get boxes from $75-90 (which is $2-2.5 per pack) for a physical objects that require machinery to print and trucks and planes to ship and stores to have them locally..
But Magic online packs, which don't require shipping or stores and the only machinery that's needed is a server, costs 1.5-2x more? WTH?!?!!?!?!?
My have/wants trade list.
It depends on your perspective on business ethics generally. Personally I find it hard to respect a game designer who makes money by deliberately making their customers unhappy. But then WotC isn't "a game designer", it's a corporation. They do this kind of thing routinely.
You know why, though - right? Because MtGO is a monopoly, whereas game store owners have to be kept happy. When you find cheap paper cards it's because the margins added to the pack prices to keep inefficient brick-and-mortar stores in business get lowered for bulk deals, internet orders and so on. MtGO matches the full retail price as a matter of politics. Real costs don't come into it.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
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If drafts were $6-8 on modo, I'd draft 24/7.
My have/wants trade list.