One comment I want to make about Falkenrath Torturer:
I think the free sacrifice outlet is being underrated; Disciple of Griselbrand has proven versatile in its way. Now, I'm not saying OMG MORBID WILL ROX YOU here, but getting a free flier (perhaps with +1/+1 counter) into Morkrut Banshee is not exactly something to sneeze at. It's kinda like Bone Splinters, except you turn the creature you lost into a 4/4 instead. Ditto for if you really really need Tragic Slip to do its job, at which point you really did get Bone Splinters, except it's suddenly an instant! (/inside joke @ Bateleur)
If nothing else, it makes me think that paired alongside the +1/+1 counter morbid creatures, it's like playing with Devour.
One comment I want to make about Falkenrath Torturer:
I think the free sacrifice outlet is being underrated; Disciple of Griselbrand has proven versatile in its way. Now, I'm not saying OMG MORBID WILL ROX YOU here, but getting a free flier (perhaps with +1/+1 counter) into Morkrut Banshee is not exactly something to sneeze at. It's kinda like Bone Splinters, except you turn the creature you lost into a 4/4 instead. Ditto for if you really really need Tragic Slip to do its job, at which point you really did get Bone Splinters, except it's suddenly an instant! (/inside joke @ Bateleur)
If nothing else, it makes me think that paired alongside the +1/+1 counter morbid creatures, it's like playing with Devour.
Yeah thats what I was thinking.
With the new undying mechanic, all the humans that benefit from a sac, a few very powerful morbid abilities etc
He's a costless sac outlet that beats down, can trigger morbid if needed and can grow bigger if given the right fodder.
Having 8+ humans and this guy, saccing elder cathars, doomed traveler while thraben sentry on the board. Saccing any human in response to removal. This guy can get threatening
In a B/W humans beatdown deck with a couple solid morbid spells, I could see this card being in the top 25% of cards in your deck.
B/R vampires with a a couple traitorous bloods hes also decently useful.\
So its sub-par in most decks, but would rate it on the strong side of "good" in a deck that utilizes his abilities. (An archetype that will be commonly drafted too, not an obscure one)
Yeah thats what I was thinking.
With the new undying mechanic, all the humans that benefit from a sac, a few very powerful morbid abilities etc
He's a costless sac outlet that beats down, can trigger morbid if needed and can grow bigger if given the right fodder.
Having 8+ humans and this guy, saccing elder cathars, doomed traveler while thraben sentry on the board. Saccing any human in response to removal. This guy can get threatening
In a B/W humans beatdown deck with a couple solid morbid spells, I could see this card being in the top 25% of cards in your deck.
B/R vampires with a a couple traitorous bloods hes also decently useful.\
So its sub-par in most decks, but would rate it on the strong side of "good" in a deck that utilizes his abilities. (An archetype that will be commonly drafted too, not an obscure one)
Good points. I just wonder if BW humans will turn into the overdrafted archetype (like G/W in triple ISD).
The number of UNCOMMON lords and deck dependent rares are going to inspire a lot more archetype forcing than in INN/INN/INN.
If the assumption holds true that more people will be forcing archetypes,
What sort of effect should that have on your drafting strategy?
I've been doing some fake drafting on draftmagicsim and I've found it difficult to force archetypes, especially the R/G werewolves and wolves deck. It really requires the packs to go your way.
My question is, how early should you take one of the dual colored captains? After you've already gotten some of the archetype, or should you draft a captain and try to force the archetype? Obviously passing a captain early will ensure it doesn't come back around, but taking it early could hurt your draft strategy (or at least potentially waste an early pick).
Spot removal being worse in light of Undying and tokens, I think anything that lets you deal with multiple creatures (most likely by blocking) should be valued slightly higher.
Burden of Guilt strikes me as something a touch under Pacifism effects, as far as when to take it. Paying 2 to neutralize a creature always is not a small price, but not a steep one either; yet it will interfere with potential development, depending on when it comes down.
Spiteful Shadows seems like a card that'll make its way into aggressive B/R builds. It mostly nullifies things like Fortress Crab while turning Into the Maw of Hell into a finisher (and why do I feel like someone's going to pull that combo on me at the prerelease?). It's kind of like removal for a deck that doesn't intend to block, but does a lot of damage on the ground. Not saying it's a high pick, but that's exactly why it might see play, since you can wheel them if you're forcing.
Spot removal being worse in light of Undying and tokens, I think anything that lets you deal with multiple creatures (most likely by blocking) should be valued slightly higher.
Well, the nice thing about Burden of Guilt is that it renders Undying meaningless if you keep the creature tapped.
Burden of Guilt strikes me as something a touch under Pacifism effects, as far as when to take it. Paying 2 to neutralize a creature always is not a small price, but not a steep one either; yet it will interfere with potential development, depending on when it comes down.
It only costs 1 a turn, not 2.
Anyway, there are 2 things which make Burden better in this environment than in general:
1. It hits Humans, which is something that most of white's other removal can't do.
2. Removal which doesn't actually kill is better in this format due to undying and GY shenanigans.
Anyway, there are 2 things which make Burden better in this environment than in general:
1. It hits Humans, which is something that most of white's other removal can't do.
2. Removal which doesn't actually kill is better in this format due to undying and GY shenanigans.
I'm talking 2-costing for removing it as an attacker and blocker all the time*. There are shenanigans to circumvent it now, after all.
* Admittedly, I was thinking about it from the perspective of offensive tapping. My brain farted.
I was playing a draft the second week up avacyn being out and i was constructing my deck when the guy across from me spilled his cherry kool-aid all over mine and his cards, he had a griselbrand and I had a cavern of souls.
Well, the nice thing about Burden of Guilt is that it renders Undying meaningless if you keep the creature tapped.
This is true, but they could just easily sacrifice the creature and get it back. Spot removal also doesn't do anything about mass token effects.
I just don't think I'll feel safe with any sort of heavy control-based / grindy plan. Aggro+tempo seems like the best route until I figure how things have changed.
The number of UNCOMMON lords and deck dependent rares are going to inspire a lot more archetype forcing than in INN/INN/INN.
If the assumption holds true that more people will be forcing archetypes,
What sort of effect should that have on your drafting strategy?
I don't think that's entirely true. Most of the cards you're talking about are more than fine on their own. You don't need to force a vampire deck because you get a vampire "lord," for example. It's fine if it just makes 2-3 other cards in your deck slightly better. You don't need to go off the rails into archetype drafting just to make one creature better.
- I disagree with the OP's characterization of divination. Just like any card drawing spell in limited, it's only as good as what it gets for you. If you don't have bombs to dig for, a random creature is probably just better than divination. The rule is to compare it to preordain -- preordain is pretty much the premier cheap card draw/filtering spell, and even it wasn't much more than a borderline playable in M11, just because digging isn't as good in limited as it is in constructed. I mean, I've played think twice a bunch, and I'm sure I'll play divination as well, but it will be cut out of most of my good decks because it doesn't really do much. At least think twice had synergy with self-mill. Anyways, I'm sure that's a longer discussion of divination than anyone wanted to hear, but oh well
Just a note as I missed it the first time I read Increasing Vengeance and from your write up it seems like you did too. It can only be used to copy spells you control. Obviously this just makes a bad card even worse.
Good. I find it very frightening. If you get it through once it becomes a 3/3 double striker. 2 damages on the first connection, 6 on the second, 10 on the third, 14, ... It you equip it, it's also very impressive. So, yes, it's dependent in some trick, but you can be sure your opponent isn't going to play in.
It gets a counter after first strike damage so it actually attacks for 3 then 7 then 11
You're right that burning oil is best used all in one shot, but then you're passing the turn with 6 mana up. That seems pretty easy to play around.
This big difference between hinterland hermit and Ironsmith are their human stats. 2/1 is so much better than 1/1 first strike.
I'm honestly not sure about the blademaster, but I'm pretty sure for every game you hit them on turn 4, you'll have 3 or 4 where she does nothing.
I think the wolf is good sort of because of what you said. You really don't want to kill him over so called real creatures, but his effect on combat is pretty profound.
I would be wrong here, but I'm not excited by a 4 mana sorcery speed removal spell. It can't kill skaabs, any of the 2/3's, 1/4's, etc. Its good against the random green and white dorkers, but what isn't?
I also like Wrack of Madness quite a bit more than you. Looking over the format it kills about 75% of the creatures including almost every bomb and almost every evasive creature. It is obviously worse against blue and could be sided out in those matchups but even then it won't be completely dead. Much better than Smite I think.
I'm honestly not sure about the blademaster, but I'm pretty sure for every game you hit them on turn 4, you'll have 3 or 4 where she does nothing.
I vote for subpar, bordering on unplayable.
Here's the thing about sliths: you need to be able to attack with them in a context where the opponent has no blocks that can kill the slith. Double Strike is irrelevant to this unless the first strike damage takes out the enemy creature completely. Blademaster doesn't swing until turn four, by which time there's no way the opponent doesn't have a two toughness blocker. You'll need to force it through at least twice before it becomes a threat in its own right... but by the time you can arrange that you'll have put so much into this one threat that your opponent will have a huge advantage if they can answer it.
The only reason it's not unplayable is because there are just enough other cards in the same category that things like Furor of the Bitten might be in your deck anyway. If R/U aggro is a deck, this might just make the cut if you're running all the support cards anyway.
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Here's the thing about sliths: you need to be able to attack with them in a context where the opponent has no blocks that can kill the slith. Double Strike is irrelevant to this unless the first strike damage takes out the enemy creature completely. Blademaster doesn't swing until turn four, by which time there's no way the opponent doesn't have a two toughness blocker. You'll need to force it through at least twice before it becomes a threat in its own right... but by the time you can arrange that you'll have put so much into this one threat that your opponent will have a huge advantage if they can answer it.
The only reason it's not unplayable is because there are just enough other cards in the same category that things like Furor of the Bitten might be in your deck anyway. If R/U aggro is a deck, this might just make the cut if you're running all the support cards anyway.
There's also the kind of crazy stacking effect that happens if you also have Rakish Heir in play. On the first attack Blademaster would deal 1 + 3, on the second he'd deal 5 + 7, then 9 + 11. It's not an auto-include, and you'd probably need some critical number of Artful Dodge/Nightbird's Clutches for it to work. Has anyone worked out whether all these falter-style effects have a break point? I mean, with some abilities you have linearity, and the more you have the better they all become (Infect); do 'X can't Block' effects do the same thing if your whole deck is just aggro aggro aggro burn burn burn?
do 'X can't Block' effects do the same thing if your whole deck is just aggro aggro aggro burn burn burn?
Oh good grief no! They get bad really, really fast. That's why cards like Crossway Vampire are so important, because they let you fit more evasion in without your deck becoming terrible. Consider this opening hand:
I think we can agree this loses to basically everything unless you get a miracle topdeck by turn three? And this isn't even a pathologically bad hand - it's just a fairly mundane hand that happens to contain two falter effects (and no sliths).
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I think the free sacrifice outlet is being underrated; Disciple of Griselbrand has proven versatile in its way. Now, I'm not saying OMG MORBID WILL ROX YOU here, but getting a free flier (perhaps with +1/+1 counter) into Morkrut Banshee is not exactly something to sneeze at. It's kinda like Bone Splinters, except you turn the creature you lost into a 4/4 instead. Ditto for if you really really need Tragic Slip to do its job, at which point you really did get Bone Splinters, except it's suddenly an instant! (/inside joke @ Bateleur)
If nothing else, it makes me think that paired alongside the +1/+1 counter morbid creatures, it's like playing with Devour.
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- Theros
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- Tarkir
Yeah thats what I was thinking.
With the new undying mechanic, all the humans that benefit from a sac, a few very powerful morbid abilities etc
He's a costless sac outlet that beats down, can trigger morbid if needed and can grow bigger if given the right fodder.
Having 8+ humans and this guy, saccing elder cathars, doomed traveler while thraben sentry on the board. Saccing any human in response to removal. This guy can get threatening
In a B/W humans beatdown deck with a couple solid morbid spells, I could see this card being in the top 25% of cards in your deck.
B/R vampires with a a couple traitorous bloods hes also decently useful.\
So its sub-par in most decks, but would rate it on the strong side of "good" in a deck that utilizes his abilities. (An archetype that will be commonly drafted too, not an obscure one)
Last Updated 02/07/24
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The number of UNCOMMON lords and deck dependent rares are going to inspire a lot more archetype forcing than in INN/INN/INN.
If the assumption holds true that more people will be forcing archetypes,
What sort of effect should that have on your drafting strategy?
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
Good points. I just wonder if BW humans will turn into the overdrafted archetype (like G/W in triple ISD).
I've been doing some fake drafting on draftmagicsim and I've found it difficult to force archetypes, especially the R/G werewolves and wolves deck. It really requires the packs to go your way.
My question is, how early should you take one of the dual colored captains? After you've already gotten some of the archetype, or should you draft a captain and try to force the archetype? Obviously passing a captain early will ensure it doesn't come back around, but taking it early could hurt your draft strategy (or at least potentially waste an early pick).
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
Well, the nice thing about Burden of Guilt is that it renders Undying meaningless if you keep the creature tapped.
It only costs 1 a turn, not 2.
Anyway, there are 2 things which make Burden better in this environment than in general:
1. It hits Humans, which is something that most of white's other removal can't do.
2. Removal which doesn't actually kill is better in this format due to undying and GY shenanigans.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
* Admittedly, I was thinking about it from the perspective of offensive tapping. My brain farted.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
But you can do that for 1 mana during your opponent's turn and it will still be tapped for your attack.
The only times you might want to put 2 mana into it is on the turn you cast it and when your opponent has an untap effect.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Highest DCI Limited Rating: 2022
I just don't think I'll feel safe with any sort of heavy control-based / grindy plan. Aggro+tempo seems like the best route until I figure how things have changed.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
I don't think that's entirely true. Most of the cards you're talking about are more than fine on their own. You don't need to force a vampire deck because you get a vampire "lord," for example. It's fine if it just makes 2-3 other cards in your deck slightly better. You don't need to go off the rails into archetype drafting just to make one creature better.
- I disagree with the OP's characterization of divination. Just like any card drawing spell in limited, it's only as good as what it gets for you. If you don't have bombs to dig for, a random creature is probably just better than divination. The rule is to compare it to preordain -- preordain is pretty much the premier cheap card draw/filtering spell, and even it wasn't much more than a borderline playable in M11, just because digging isn't as good in limited as it is in constructed. I mean, I've played think twice a bunch, and I'm sure I'll play divination as well, but it will be cut out of most of my good decks because it doesn't really do much. At least think twice had synergy with self-mill. Anyways, I'm sure that's a longer discussion of divination than anyone wanted to hear, but oh well
*DCI Rules Advisor*
Red's been added.
It gets a counter after first strike damage so it actually attacks for 3 then 7 then 11
This big difference between hinterland hermit and Ironsmith are their human stats. 2/1 is so much better than 1/1 first strike.
I'm honestly not sure about the blademaster, but I'm pretty sure for every game you hit them on turn 4, you'll have 3 or 4 where she does nothing.
I think the wolf is good sort of because of what you said. You really don't want to kill him over so called real creatures, but his effect on combat is pretty profound.
I would be wrong here, but I'm not excited by a 4 mana sorcery speed removal spell. It can't kill skaabs, any of the 2/3's, 1/4's, etc. Its good against the random green and white dorkers, but what isn't?
I vote for subpar, bordering on unplayable.
Here's the thing about sliths: you need to be able to attack with them in a context where the opponent has no blocks that can kill the slith. Double Strike is irrelevant to this unless the first strike damage takes out the enemy creature completely. Blademaster doesn't swing until turn four, by which time there's no way the opponent doesn't have a two toughness blocker. You'll need to force it through at least twice before it becomes a threat in its own right... but by the time you can arrange that you'll have put so much into this one threat that your opponent will have a huge advantage if they can answer it.
The only reason it's not unplayable is because there are just enough other cards in the same category that things like Furor of the Bitten might be in your deck anyway. If R/U aggro is a deck, this might just make the cut if you're running all the support cards anyway.
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Or just cast/flashback Artful Dodge.
Kind of reminds me of Kiln Fiend and Distortion Strike.
There's also the kind of crazy stacking effect that happens if you also have Rakish Heir in play. On the first attack Blademaster would deal 1 + 3, on the second he'd deal 5 + 7, then 9 + 11. It's not an auto-include, and you'd probably need some critical number of Artful Dodge/Nightbird's Clutches for it to work. Has anyone worked out whether all these falter-style effects have a break point? I mean, with some abilities you have linearity, and the more you have the better they all become (Infect); do 'X can't Block' effects do the same thing if your whole deck is just aggro aggro aggro burn burn burn?
Oh good grief no! They get bad really, really fast. That's why cards like Crossway Vampire are so important, because they let you fit more evasion in without your deck becoming terrible. Consider this opening hand:
Mountain, Mountain, Island, Ashmouth Hound, Pitchburn Devils, Nightbird's Clutches, Artful Dodge
I think we can agree this loses to basically everything unless you get a miracle topdeck by turn three? And this isn't even a pathologically bad hand - it's just a fairly mundane hand that happens to contain two falter effects (and no sliths).
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
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