I thought this card was utter garbage(as is most lifegain) and every time someone has played it against me the quality of their deck has been awful.
I guess its good for some reason and I understand it helps metalcraft. I've always run away from anything with lifegain as I don't feel like it does very much in most decks.
I just haven't seen that many matches in this limited format where someone can gain some life and turn the game around. Usually whoever is losing would lose anyway.
Where has anyone stated that its not awful?
Sometimes it makes the cut because your deck needs artifacts and its one of the cheapest ones in the set or you need sacrifice outlets for your furnace celebration and again its the cheapest alternative. Thats it, its never played for its lifegain (by anyone with limited experience).
In fact, it's fairly high, given the strength of the card (or lack thereof). There's 6 in 5 decklists all at 3-0.
That's fairly impressive. It may be the Oracle of Nectars phenomena (the common that best predicted a deck would 3-0 a draft was oracle of nectars on MTGO - no other common had as high a ratio of draft winning decks:all decks).
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
It must have some value, you don't see vector asps running around in metalcraft builds.
Honestly, I've never been truly short on artifacts in this format. Sure I've had to play some decks with 12 or 13, but those builds contained tons of ridiculous colored cards(multiples of volition reins, arc trail, scrapmelter,etc) and not as many chromesteads, rusted relic, or drakes.
I guess rarely you end up with a bunch of good colored cards and metalcraft guys, but usually its because packs were dry and you couldn't draft around it which doesn't happen much.
if you consistently have good decks and do not have to scrounge for playables, play with better people. Of course for a lot of us we are limited to the skill level of 8-4 queues, which frankly has been disappointing for SOM. It's a hard format to draft.
Actually Golden Urn is quite good in Infect because your opponent is very likely to be going after your life total since you have the good Infect cards.
Seriously though, I've never seen it do anything but stall a game, and not effectively at that. I would guess Vector Asp gets taken as marginal picks for Infect, and Urn is such garbage that it goes later but still gets put in Metalcraft or other control scouring for playables.
That's fairly impressive. It may be the Oracle of Nectars phenomena (the common that best predicted a deck would 3-0 a draft was oracle of nectars on MTGO - no other common had as high a ratio of draft winning decks:all decks).
Oracle of Nectars is rare, and a pretty reasonable one too.
Golden Urn is almost like a blank card that ups your metalcraft count by one. Which is not something I'm a fan of at all, but I guess if you're really committed, then you do what you got to do to activate those Vedalken Certarchs. I'm pretty sure I'll never play one, though.
My opponent has played it a couple times, and it's read: "You get to play one extra turn before you lose."
At the start of the format, LSV wrote that any artifact that costs 1 is potentially playable, just because of Metalcraft. Now that everyone knows about Metalcraft and the good enablers, that strategy seems too saturated to be worth playing blanks.
When you were getting Chrome Steeds to table because no one knew they were good yet, then yea Golden Urn is pretty valuable. It's all relative. The more broken your Metalcraft rewards are, the better these cheap bad artifacts can be. Now that we've learned how to draft Metalcraft though, you're probably not getting the required mass of them in one deck.
Oracle of Nectars is rare, and a pretty reasonable one too.
Golden Urn is almost like a blank card that ups your metalcraft count by one. Which is not something I'm a fan of at all, but I guess if you're really committed, then you do what you got to do to activate those Vedalken Certarchs. I'm pretty sure I'll never play one, though.
Oh right, it's a rare, never even checked. In that case, it's just the card that most predicts your deck is going to win. And it doesn't, on the surface, look super reasonable for the format it was in (SSS and SSE was SATURATED with cheap, powerful creatures - Ballynock Cohort, Safehold Elite, Safehold Duo, you get the idea). But the deck that included it has a plan, and that plan was to stall into hyper powerful cards.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
It's an artifact that costs :1mana:. It's worse than a Spellbomb for red Sac decks (since you can't draw off of it), but better for metalcraft decks that want to keep it around for a while. Having one turn 1 can net you 8-10 life by the time the game would normally end and keep you in it. While one shot lifegain effects aren't that great, something that explosive that also enables metalcraft is more than playable.
Oracle of Nectars is actually pretty decent, just because it's a reusable X effect. You get to use every spare point of mana toward a reasonable goal. One shot lifegain is usually terrible but repeatable lifegain is often fine in the right format.
If you change the ability to something like: ,T: Gain 7 life, it becomes much worse even though you're technically getting more like for your mana.
Urn is still bad. It fails to do 2 things needed to be a "good card" in that it gives you a win condition or serves as an out when topdecking. Urn, however, in the right deck does serve some good purposes. Urn + ember/Myr smith is VERY good and a Turn 1 urn, into turn 2 Myr into turn 3 4/4 Chrome steed is VERY GOOD but I would never take it over anything else that satisfies my first two criteria.
Gerard Fabiano's deck was metalcraft with double Quicksilver Gargantuan (for which he wants to survive to the late game above all else).
Sam Black's deck was running double Furnace Celebration.
Daniel's Brown's deck with two copies was turbo-metalcraft with Mox Opal, double Sunchaser and a Kuldotha Forgemaster with a Sword of Body and Mind to fetch.
Ben Hayes had a Furnace Celebration, a Barrage Ogre and a Ferrovore.
Nick Henning was mono-Red (for Koth) and so was presumably hurting for playables.
To put it another way: don't stop the presses, Golden Urn is still awful!
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<Limited Clan>
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Once, an opposing Golden Urn blanked my two Necrogen Censors I had played... I think that is the first time I've ever seen it do anything useful, and it was only because my deck was a godawful aggro deck and needed to play Necrogen Censors in order to have a chance at winning.
Also, see Bateleur's post. It can be good if you have a bunch of Furnace Celebrations or big late game bombs.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
Not the worst thing ever. Gerry Thompson made a case for it a couple SCG articles back saying that it was good at enabling early metalcraft and Gaining you a handful of life later when your metalcraft situation is more stable. I guess that's OK but it still seems relatively awful early and just a miserable topdeck.
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I was playing a draft the second week up avacyn being out and i was constructing my deck when the guy across from me spilled his cherry kool-aid all over mine and his cards, he had a griselbrand and I had a cavern of souls.
Its not unplayable but its still VERY bad. I remember a draft i had against a very good player who was joking about playing Golden Urn and it end up costing him both games.
Cards i would run over it, any spellbomb, necrogen sensor, the lifestaff card, vensers journal, any off color mana mir.
So I've seen a bunch of people's early evaluations of M13 limited, and the apparent consensus is that blue is the set's worst colors. I have only played three events, mind you, but I consider myself a bit of a core set limited guru, and while I think it's a bit early to say that blue is the set's best color, I think it's significant;y more in the conversation than people are giving it credit for.
As I've posted elsewhere, Archaeomancer is my pick for the set's best common.
I'm more fascinated by the fact that there are 5 Heavy Arbalest's in those decks and only one of them has Soliton to really make it worthwhile. I kind of always thought that four mana plus a tapped creature was a steep price to pay for a shock.
I kind of always thought that four mana plus a tapped creature was a steep price to pay for a shock.
You're forgetting about cards!
Heavy Arbalest can fire repeatedly. Sure, it's slow, but it forces your opponent to find a way to win quickly or they're going to lose to the massive card advantage it creates (or just get burned out by it).
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<Limited Clan>
I'm more fascinated by the fact that there are 5 Heavy Arbalest's in those decks and only one of them has Soliton to really make it worthwhile. I kind of always thought that four mana plus a tapped creature was a steep price to pay for a shock.
Yeah, but when you change the equipment and are able to block and shoot away 2 guys each turn (or just shoot if they don't attack), you're going way up in card advantage.
I don't think its a good card. Play it in metalcraft deck where you're running a little short on playable artifact but it is one of the worst cards yuo could top deck in a close game. Spellbombs, even the crappy ones, are better than this card IMO.
I thought this card was utter garbage(as is most lifegain) and every time someone has played it against me the quality of their deck has been awful.
I guess its good for some reason and I understand it helps metalcraft. I've always run away from anything with lifegain as I don't feel like it does very much in most decks.
I just haven't seen that many matches in this limited format where someone can gain some life and turn the game around. Usually whoever is losing would lose anyway.
Sometimes it makes the cut because your deck needs artifacts and its one of the cheapest ones in the set or you need sacrifice outlets for your furnace celebration and again its the cheapest alternative. Thats it, its never played for its lifegain (by anyone with limited experience).
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpnas10/day2coverage#11
In fact, it's fairly high, given the strength of the card (or lack thereof). There's 6 in 5 decklists all at 3-0.
That's fairly impressive. It may be the Oracle of Nectars phenomena (the common that best predicted a deck would 3-0 a draft was oracle of nectars on MTGO - no other common had as high a ratio of draft winning decks:all decks).
Honestly, I've never been truly short on artifacts in this format. Sure I've had to play some decks with 12 or 13, but those builds contained tons of ridiculous colored cards(multiples of volition reins, arc trail, scrapmelter,etc) and not as many chromesteads, rusted relic, or drakes.
I guess rarely you end up with a bunch of good colored cards and metalcraft guys, but usually its because packs were dry and you couldn't draft around it which doesn't happen much.
Seriously though, I've never seen it do anything but stall a game, and not effectively at that. I would guess Vector Asp gets taken as marginal picks for Infect, and Urn is such garbage that it goes later but still gets put in Metalcraft or other control scouring for playables.
Peak rating 1832
Brain Freeze is the coolest card ever printed.
Oracle of Nectars is rare, and a pretty reasonable one too.
Golden Urn is almost like a blank card that ups your metalcraft count by one. Which is not something I'm a fan of at all, but I guess if you're really committed, then you do what you got to do to activate those Vedalken Certarchs. I'm pretty sure I'll never play one, though.
At the start of the format, LSV wrote that any artifact that costs 1 is potentially playable, just because of Metalcraft. Now that everyone knows about Metalcraft and the good enablers, that strategy seems too saturated to be worth playing blanks.
When you were getting Chrome Steeds to table because no one knew they were good yet, then yea Golden Urn is pretty valuable. It's all relative. The more broken your Metalcraft rewards are, the better these cheap bad artifacts can be. Now that we've learned how to draft Metalcraft though, you're probably not getting the required mass of them in one deck.
Oh right, it's a rare, never even checked. In that case, it's just the card that most predicts your deck is going to win. And it doesn't, on the surface, look super reasonable for the format it was in (SSS and SSE was SATURATED with cheap, powerful creatures - Ballynock Cohort, Safehold Elite, Safehold Duo, you get the idea). But the deck that included it has a plan, and that plan was to stall into hyper powerful cards.
If you change the ability to something like: ,T: Gain 7 life, it becomes much worse even though you're technically getting more like for your mana.
Sam Black's deck was running double Furnace Celebration.
Daniel's Brown's deck with two copies was turbo-metalcraft with Mox Opal, double Sunchaser and a Kuldotha Forgemaster with a Sword of Body and Mind to fetch.
Ben Hayes had a Furnace Celebration, a Barrage Ogre and a Ferrovore.
Nick Henning was mono-Red (for Koth) and so was presumably hurting for playables.
To put it another way: don't stop the presses, Golden Urn is still awful!
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
NO WAY ITS A BOMB P1P1 CARD NOW!
Agreed, card is not good. But still it is playable in certain builds, not awful
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Also, see Bateleur's post. It can be good if you have a bunch of Furnace Celebrations or big late game bombs.
MTGO account name: FSM
MTGO rating: 1795
Highest DCI Limited Rating: 2022
Cards i would run over it, any spellbomb, necrogen sensor, the lifestaff card, vensers journal, any off color mana mir.
Are you talking about Sylvok Lifestaff? Because the staff is just fine in pretty much any deck and doesn't belong in this list.
You're forgetting about cards!
Heavy Arbalest can fire repeatedly. Sure, it's slow, but it forces your opponent to find a way to win quickly or they're going to lose to the massive card advantage it creates (or just get burned out by it).
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Yeah, but when you change the equipment and are able to block and shoot away 2 guys each turn (or just shoot if they don't attack), you're going way up in card advantage.