So I was wondering if the ability to "choose your side," so to speak, is going to become a permanent staple of future prereleases.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of being able to choose what colors you're going to play before the event. It's much more enjoyable to go into it with everyone getting 6 completely random packs, having no idea what you're going to get or what you're going to end up playing. Choosing your colors/guild/whatever should be left to constructed, IMO.
So I'm wondering if we're going to see another theme like "Heroes vs. Monsters: Choose Your Side!" or something at the Theros prerelease.
I expect that they will continue to have some sort of theme or activity at a lot of future events, just not necessarily choosing your colors. AVR had the Helvault (which, while underwhelming to many, was still something to shoot for besides just winning your games), MBS had factions...I think that choosing your colors specifically is a thing that will be unique to the guild structure of Ravnica, but I would be surprised if they go back to just handing out 6 packs and calling it a day moving forward.
There may not be a huge thing at every prerelease, but I'd expect it to be more common - especially since they just introduced achievement cards for the Implicit Maze. If they're integrating it w/ Planeswalker Points, they're probably not going to just use that once, which indicates future events will have some sort of side activity.
So I was wondering if the ability to "choose your side," so to speak, is going to become a permanent staple of future prereleases.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of being able to choose what colors you're going to play before the event. It's much more enjoyable to go into it with everyone getting 6 completely random packs, having no idea what you're going to get or what you're going to end up playing. Choosing your colors/guild/whatever should be left to constructed, IMO.
So I'm wondering if we're going to see another theme like "Heroes vs. Monsters: Choose Your Side!" or something at the Theros prerelease.
it's funny that you bring this up, because I was JUST talking to somebody about it. I agree with you that getting 6 boosters is more enjoyable because you can just look at your pool and evaluate what colors to go into instead of choosing colors beforehand. I don't know. I guess the "choose your guild" thing decreases variance in pools, which is the major complaint I hear about sealed (although I like it).
As for whether or not it will continue, I think the RTR and GTC prereleases (and probable DGM too) were wildly popular with huge attendance, which only encourages WOTC to do these kinds of things. I think they'll continue to do it when the flavor is right. I'm sure core set prereleases will always be 6 boosters. The expert expansion prereleases will probably have a gimmick, but hopefully it won't be like this where you get pre-made booster packs. As much as I hated the Helvault surprise, it didn't impact gameplay so that kind of thing is fine in my opinion.
I like that prereleases are more casual and fun so I don't mind gimmicks, but I don't like going into sealed events already biased towards colors/mechanics.
My opinion is a little redundant with whats already been said but two points:
1. Choosing a 'side' takes away from some of the skill. In the Mirrodin Besieged prerelease, if you chose Mirrodin over Phyrexia, you were at a disadvantage. While I cannot prove this, I do think it was the general consensus that the Phyrexia packs were generally much stronger, had more removal, and significantly more raw power: the cards didn't NEED each other in order to be decent, they were good on their own.
2. I cannot provide true evidence for this either, but I think prerelease attendance has been on the rise. This is due to local stores being allowed to host prerelease events and magic's popularity rise in general, but it is likely also due to the 'gimmicks' added to the events.
...while it is not necessarily going to be EVERY prerelease event, as several since MBS have not had the choose your side gimmick, there will almost certainly be a Helvault or pick a side gimmick of some sort from here on out. I personally hope that it does not involve getting to 'choose a side,' because it means I have to figure out which side has more synergies, removal, bombs, etc. instead of just going in blind as we should for a prerelease.
Well, this is my first pre-release event and I feel kinda overwhelmed by having to know the DGM cards as well as RTR and GTC. I think the idea is nice but I'd rather not have this gimmick at every future pre-release.
At first I didn't know what to take but then someone told me that we'll be drawing the packs out of a bag at my store, so nobody can choose their guild and the whole "Choose your guild idea" is void anyway.
Usually every pre-release after the first set has older cards in it. For instance, during the New Phyrexia Pre-Release you also got packs of Scars of Mirrodin and Mirrodin Besieged.
Usually every pre-release after the first set has older cards in it. For instance, during the New Phyrexia Pre-Release you also got packs of Scars of Mirrodin and Mirrodin Besieged.
Pretty much this. While WotC has departed from using this structure all the time, the default block format is "Large-Small-Small", referring to the relative size of the set. If a given expansion is "Large", then for the prerelease, you will only get cards from that set. Despite being the second set in the block, since GTC was a large set, you only got GTC cards for that prerelease (same with Avacyn Restored). For a "Small" set prerelease, you will get packs from the rest of the released sets in the block as well. This is mainly because large sets are (in part due to their size), designed better to be drafted alone.
If you've ever tried drafting a small set by itself, it works, but matches can be kinda weird, since the pool of cards is smaller and the mechanics of the set aren't always self-sufficient.
The "chosen" aligned colors are guild stuff specific to Ravnica no? It's a theme I imagine will go away with the next block. No guilds no picking I'd assume anyone played Sealed in Innistrad care to comment?
Well, this is my first pre-release event and I feel kinda overwhelmed by having to know the DGM cards as well as RTR and GTC. I think the idea is nice but I'd rather not have this gimmick at every future pre-release.
As mentioned, most prereleases include two sets, as WotC's typical format is Large prerelease, 5 (or now 6?) packs of a large set. First small set (Feb release) 3 packs of the large set and 3 packs of the new set. And for the final prerelease of a block it tends to be 3 packs of the large set, and 3 of the new set, skipping the set that came out in February for the May prerelease.
My opinion is a little redundant with whats already been said but two points:
1. Choosing a 'side' takes away from some of the skill. In the Mirrodin Besieged prerelease, if you chose Mirrodin over Phyrexia, you were at a disadvantage. While I cannot prove this, I do think it was the general consensus that the Phyrexia packs were generally much stronger, had more removal, and significantly more raw power: the cards didn't NEED each other in order to be decent, they were good on their own.
2. I cannot provide true evidence for this either, but I think prerelease attendance has been on the rise. This is due to local stores being allowed to host prerelease events and magic's popularity rise in general, but it is likely also due to the 'gimmicks' added to the events.
1. While I agree there was an advantage in the Besieged prerelease, I dont think it was actually that high. There was the potential of choosing Phyrexian and getting nothing to support it in the Scars packs. The only problem that arose was that a dedicated infect deck was tough to beat, and by providing 3 phyrexian packs it made it easier to achieve (such as how Boros was dominant at the prerelease due to the guild pack), but I remember while playing Mirran that while a phyrexian deck won my 32 man pod, it did so on the back of 2 Consecrated Sphinx's so it was more of a crazy good pool than any indication of faction.
2. While Magic's overall popularity has grown, its difficult to decide if thats artificially high due to Ravnica being involved. I remember when the original rav sets came out, there were extremely large numbers of participants at events, and yet it was not sustained over Time Spiral and Lorwyn. That said, the numbers clearly have increased over the years.
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I think color choice is going to be fairly unique to this block. I initially liked this format more, but after playing it several times, I think I would prefer the 6 boosters format. They can add some mechanics to dress up sealed to make it more fun. The "pick a side" decks seem to create higher variance. Someone typically ends up with a nut draw where everything matches, while someone else ends up playing down a pack or two because of what they opened in their boosters.
The problem I have with being pigeonholed up front is that Wizards has a habit of creating at least one, notable area with a deficit compared to other options. Being forced to play a weaker option, or not being given the chance to luck into the stronger option, can derail some people before the packs are even opened.
So I was wondering if the ability to "choose your side," so to speak, is going to become a permanent staple of future prereleases.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of being able to choose what colors you're going to play before the event. It's much more enjoyable to go into it with everyone getting 6 completely random packs, having no idea what you're going to get or what you're going to end up playing. Choosing your colors/guild/whatever should be left to constructed, IMO.
So I'm wondering if we're going to see another theme like "Heroes vs. Monsters: Choose Your Side!" or something at the Theros prerelease.
Well, I don't foresee anything like "choose your side" happening in a core set so you don't have to worry about it there. As for future expert level expansions, I could certainly see them doing more of this type of thing since as far as I know it has been very well received (and something like choosing your own guild is really cool to the new/casual player). It's all speculation at this point of course but it seems likely to me we'll be seeing more of this in the future.
The problem I have with being pigeonholed up front is that Wizards has a habit of creating at least one, notable area with a deficit compared to other options. Being forced to play a weaker option, or not being given the chance to luck into the stronger option, can derail some people before the packs are even opened.
i feel this way, too. i'm still pissed that at the GTC prerelease, the guild with the BEST commons and uncommons (Boros) got CRAZY good guildpacks where all rares were playable, and the guild that needed the MOST help in limitted (Dimir) were given the WORST guildpacks.
if wizards actually, like, balanced all choices, then i'd be okay with the choose-a-side etc option. but the Boros vs Dimir unbalancing was egregious and i can't imagine why in the world wizards could have decided upon that.
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Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul "no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
i feel this way, too. i'm still pissed that at the GTC prerelease, the guild with the BEST commons and uncommons (Boros) got CRAZY good guildpacks where all rares were playable, and the guild that needed the MOST help in limitted (Dimir) were given the WORST guildpacks.
if wizards actually, like, balanced all choices, then i'd be okay with the choose-a-side etc option. but the Boros vs Dimir unbalancing was egregious and i can't imagine why in the world wizards could have decided upon that.
^^That's a great way to sum things up. I have always done "okay" in the past, but RTR block has been ridiculously easy in limited-play thanks to some color combinations being considerably better than others. Boros was unfair-good against a lot of the field (unless the player had a nuts pool. even than I won a handful of games).
IMO, the subthemes keep me interested. I wouldn't otherwise buy packs but the idea of flavor themes is cute. I actually enjoy wanting to "represent" something. AVR was tacky. COMM was cool (event cards). I like RTR's ideas....but their execution of keeping the draft balanced is just awful. I don't want wizards to keep creating pre-draft archetypes. Let me get random packs and figure things out from there. RTR has a very watered-down limited feeling to it. You know what each color is built to do and there are extreme disparities between guilds. I'm not asking for all colors to have X removal and Y amount of playables, but atm things are heavily biased towards Boros/Orzhov/Azorious. Those are the 'cool kids' and everyone else is literally less of a guild. Sure, there are bombs in all color combinations, but the consistency across limited-play isn't there. That's what hurt RTR block imo.
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
The whole guild-thing was actually pretty good marketing, and I love the SWAG! The guild dices and badges were pretty awesome. Even the guild leader letter was cool. Pretty sure I'm not the only one - there were people at the LGS trading/pleading other players for other guild badges and those guild symbol cards that came in the pre-release guildpacks.
I would be surprised if subsequent pre-releases did not run on some form of product gimmick.. I mean, advertising campaign. I don't suppose Wizards could do much the same with a core set such as M14... but it would be nice to be (pleasantly) surprised.
However like others I agree that there was a consistency issue in the RTR block pre-releases, although I think the inbalance has more to do with the development team. I can't imagine a new (or returning) player who is a fan of Dimir/Izzet and/or control getting excited about the event, then feeling like crap at the pre-release after getting steamrolled by Boros, and being told that their preferred guild was a 'bad choice'.
TL;DR
Pre-release gimmicks that give out cool SWAG = yes
Pre-release gimmicks that affect gameplay experience = no
mostly because choosing your guilds this prerelease was a stronger "skill" than actually playing the game.
you magically become a "better player" if you picked boros over dimir etc etc. sealed is already luck based, lets not have it be luck based and ALSO be choice based.
Gimmicks will continue. They're about one and a half a block now.
Shards of Alara: Choose a shard, complete with "color identity" rules.
Zendikar: Hidden treasures.
Scars of Mirrodin: Choose a side.
Innistrad: "Try to live human.", Helvault. (I actually was one of the few humans left in our DKA prerelease.)
Return to Ravnica: Choose a guild, Implicit Maze.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of being able to choose what colors you're going to play before the event. It's much more enjoyable to go into it with everyone getting 6 completely random packs, having no idea what you're going to get or what you're going to end up playing. Choosing your colors/guild/whatever should be left to constructed, IMO.
So I'm wondering if we're going to see another theme like "Heroes vs. Monsters: Choose Your Side!" or something at the Theros prerelease.
There may not be a huge thing at every prerelease, but I'd expect it to be more common - especially since they just introduced achievement cards for the Implicit Maze. If they're integrating it w/ Planeswalker Points, they're probably not going to just use that once, which indicates future events will have some sort of side activity.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
it's funny that you bring this up, because I was JUST talking to somebody about it. I agree with you that getting 6 boosters is more enjoyable because you can just look at your pool and evaluate what colors to go into instead of choosing colors beforehand. I don't know. I guess the "choose your guild" thing decreases variance in pools, which is the major complaint I hear about sealed (although I like it).
As for whether or not it will continue, I think the RTR and GTC prereleases (and probable DGM too) were wildly popular with huge attendance, which only encourages WOTC to do these kinds of things. I think they'll continue to do it when the flavor is right. I'm sure core set prereleases will always be 6 boosters. The expert expansion prereleases will probably have a gimmick, but hopefully it won't be like this where you get pre-made booster packs. As much as I hated the Helvault surprise, it didn't impact gameplay so that kind of thing is fine in my opinion.
I like that prereleases are more casual and fun so I don't mind gimmicks, but I don't like going into sealed events already biased towards colors/mechanics.
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By "Vanguard gimmick" do you mean oversized cards like the ones in the Helvault, or an actual return of the old Vanguard-style cards?
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1. Choosing a 'side' takes away from some of the skill. In the Mirrodin Besieged prerelease, if you chose Mirrodin over Phyrexia, you were at a disadvantage. While I cannot prove this, I do think it was the general consensus that the Phyrexia packs were generally much stronger, had more removal, and significantly more raw power: the cards didn't NEED each other in order to be decent, they were good on their own.
2. I cannot provide true evidence for this either, but I think prerelease attendance has been on the rise. This is due to local stores being allowed to host prerelease events and magic's popularity rise in general, but it is likely also due to the 'gimmicks' added to the events.
...while it is not necessarily going to be EVERY prerelease event, as several since MBS have not had the choose your side gimmick, there will almost certainly be a Helvault or pick a side gimmick of some sort from here on out. I personally hope that it does not involve getting to 'choose a side,' because it means I have to figure out which side has more synergies, removal, bombs, etc. instead of just going in blind as we should for a prerelease.
Usually every pre-release after the first set has older cards in it. For instance, during the New Phyrexia Pre-Release you also got packs of Scars of Mirrodin and Mirrodin Besieged.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Pretty much this. While WotC has departed from using this structure all the time, the default block format is "Large-Small-Small", referring to the relative size of the set. If a given expansion is "Large", then for the prerelease, you will only get cards from that set. Despite being the second set in the block, since GTC was a large set, you only got GTC cards for that prerelease (same with Avacyn Restored). For a "Small" set prerelease, you will get packs from the rest of the released sets in the block as well. This is mainly because large sets are (in part due to their size), designed better to be drafted alone.
If you've ever tried drafting a small set by itself, it works, but matches can be kinda weird, since the pool of cards is smaller and the mechanics of the set aren't always self-sufficient.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
As mentioned, most prereleases include two sets, as WotC's typical format is Large prerelease, 5 (or now 6?) packs of a large set. First small set (Feb release) 3 packs of the large set and 3 packs of the new set. And for the final prerelease of a block it tends to be 3 packs of the large set, and 3 of the new set, skipping the set that came out in February for the May prerelease.
1. While I agree there was an advantage in the Besieged prerelease, I dont think it was actually that high. There was the potential of choosing Phyrexian and getting nothing to support it in the Scars packs. The only problem that arose was that a dedicated infect deck was tough to beat, and by providing 3 phyrexian packs it made it easier to achieve (such as how Boros was dominant at the prerelease due to the guild pack), but I remember while playing Mirran that while a phyrexian deck won my 32 man pod, it did so on the back of 2 Consecrated Sphinx's so it was more of a crazy good pool than any indication of faction.
2. While Magic's overall popularity has grown, its difficult to decide if thats artificially high due to Ravnica being involved. I remember when the original rav sets came out, there were extremely large numbers of participants at events, and yet it was not sustained over Time Spiral and Lorwyn. That said, the numbers clearly have increased over the years.
An actual Vanguard style card. Perhaps modernized and not necessarily over sized. It would be our Promo. Pure speculation of course.
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That would be super cool.
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Well, I don't foresee anything like "choose your side" happening in a core set so you don't have to worry about it there. As for future expert level expansions, I could certainly see them doing more of this type of thing since as far as I know it has been very well received (and something like choosing your own guild is really cool to the new/casual player). It's all speculation at this point of course but it seems likely to me we'll be seeing more of this in the future.
i feel this way, too. i'm still pissed that at the GTC prerelease, the guild with the BEST commons and uncommons (Boros) got CRAZY good guildpacks where all rares were playable, and the guild that needed the MOST help in limitted (Dimir) were given the WORST guildpacks.
if wizards actually, like, balanced all choices, then i'd be okay with the choose-a-side etc option. but the Boros vs Dimir unbalancing was egregious and i can't imagine why in the world wizards could have decided upon that.
Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul
"no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
^^That's a great way to sum things up. I have always done "okay" in the past, but RTR block has been ridiculously easy in limited-play thanks to some color combinations being considerably better than others. Boros was unfair-good against a lot of the field (unless the player had a nuts pool. even than I won a handful of games).
IMO, the subthemes keep me interested. I wouldn't otherwise buy packs but the idea of flavor themes is cute. I actually enjoy wanting to "represent" something. AVR was tacky. COMM was cool (event cards). I like RTR's ideas....but their execution of keeping the draft balanced is just awful. I don't want wizards to keep creating pre-draft archetypes. Let me get random packs and figure things out from there. RTR has a very watered-down limited feeling to it. You know what each color is built to do and there are extreme disparities between guilds. I'm not asking for all colors to have X removal and Y amount of playables, but atm things are heavily biased towards Boros/Orzhov/Azorious. Those are the 'cool kids' and everyone else is literally less of a guild. Sure, there are bombs in all color combinations, but the consistency across limited-play isn't there. That's what hurt RTR block imo.
10th at SCG: Syracuse (2014), GP:NJ Last-Chance Grinder Winner (2014):: Former Legacy Mod
I would be surprised if subsequent pre-releases did not run on some form of product
gimmick.. I mean, advertising campaign. I don't suppose Wizards could do much the same with a core set such as M14... but it would be nice to be (pleasantly) surprised.However like others I agree that there was a consistency issue in the RTR block pre-releases, although I think the inbalance has more to do with the development team. I can't imagine a new (or returning) player who is a fan of Dimir/Izzet and/or control getting excited about the event, then feeling like crap at the pre-release after getting steamrolled by Boros, and being told that their preferred guild was a 'bad choice'.
TL;DR
Pre-release gimmicks that give out cool SWAG = yes
Pre-release gimmicks that affect gameplay experience = no
Shut up and take my money
mostly because choosing your guilds this prerelease was a stronger "skill" than actually playing the game.
you magically become a "better player" if you picked boros over dimir etc etc. sealed is already luck based, lets not have it be luck based and ALSO be choice based.
Shards of Alara: Choose a shard, complete with "color identity" rules.
Zendikar: Hidden treasures.
Scars of Mirrodin: Choose a side.
Innistrad: "Try to live human.", Helvault. (I actually was one of the few humans left in our DKA prerelease.)
Return to Ravnica: Choose a guild, Implicit Maze.
On phasing: