So I can't help but feel that it is incredibly easy for people to cheat at prereleases.
Card shops are normally packed, and short of each individual registering their sealed pool as someone watches over them as they're opening it, which doesn't happen, there is nothing preventing anyone from bringing along their favorite RTR, GTC, or DGM cards, or swapping with their friends.
Unless there is someone actually watching each gathering of people, which there won't be, I can't help but think this may be happening.
There are sharks who just need those packs... there is really no way to prevent it if people want to do it. Just watch out for somebody with more than one GTC or RTR card this weekend.
Well, the RTR and GTC cards they will have at the pre-release will only be the ones from the pre-release boosters they are handing out. And presumably nobody will have access to DGM cards before the pre-release. So I don't think either will be a massive concern.
It's a bit hard to stop people sharing cards from their cardpool with other people in different colours though.
You used to register the packs you opened then someone else would get what you registered at prereleases here. The packs are at the tables along with a sheet listing all the cards with a number of checkboxes beside each. "Pairings" go up, you sit down, tick what's in the packs and sign off on it, another round of "pairings" go up, and there's your pool. You tick what's going in your 40, then hand in the form. No need to observe packs being opened, but it doesn't really have an effect unless someones deck is challenged. GTC was the first one I've been to in ~10 years, and I was surprised that this is no longer the case.
You used to register the packs you opened then someone else would get what you registered at prereleases here. The packs are at the tables along with a sheet listing all the cards with a number of checkboxes beside each. "Pairings" go up, you sit down, tick what's in the packs and sign off on it, another round of "pairings" go up, and there's your pool. You tick what's going in your 40, then hand in the form. No need to observe packs being opened, but it doesn't really have an effect unless someones deck is challenged. GTC was the first one I've been to in ~10 years, and I was surprised that this is no longer the case.
This is how it's done in larger, "tournament style"-esque environments. But for most smaller card shops, the hassle of having players sit down, open up cards that they aren't going to use, register them, receive another set of cards, register those, and then finally receive their pool (that has been looked at/touched/"possibly messed up by" at least 2 other people) just isn't worth the waste of time and hassle. It also slows things down quite a bit and can cause more casual players to walk out of the store and tournament before the games even start.
That, and you know what they say. If Wizards started shipping $100 bills in boosters tomorrow, people would scream and cry and whine that they were folded the wrong way.
This is how it's done in larger, "tournament style"-esque environments. But for most smaller card shops, the hassle of having players sit down, open up cards that they aren't going to use, register them, receive another set of cards, register those, and then finally receive their pool (that has been looked at/touched/"possibly messed up by" at least 2 other people) just isn't worth the waste of time and hassle. It also slows things down quite a bit and can cause more casual players to walk out of the store and tournament before the games even start.
One reason I was surprised is because there was 100+ players there. Even if it's just one or two dozen guys though, 20 minutes extra for deck registration isn't the end of the world tbh. You're going to be sitting there for 3-6 hours depending how many rounds your flights have anyway.
Yeah, I figured that, but I've never played in a sealed tournament in person. One reason I was surprised is because there was 100+ players there. Even if it's just one or two dozen guys though, 20 minutes extra for deck registration isn't the end of the world tbh. You're going to be sitting there for 3-6 hours depending how many rounds your flights have anyway.
I totally agree. But I know that I part of the reasoning for my local card shop where I attend pre-releases. I have met people at pre-releases there who have never played magic before, who would undoubtedly been too confused by the procedure to have given it a try. It's not the most fair procedure, and sure people can cheat or game the system, but in all my years playing there, the honor system has only failed once at that store. And that was a guy from out of town who had been banned from his local stores for cheating:-/.
That, and you know what they say. If Wizards started shipping $100 bills in boosters tomorrow, people would scream and cry and whine that they were folded the wrong way.
I just left the GTC prerelease with a bad taste in my mouth after facing 3 consecutive helix angel decks when I was playing in the third flight of the day. I had zero match wins, which I've never done before in any tournament.
At the GTC prerelease however, everyone I faced in the first three rounds had the absolute nuts. I was at 8 on turn 4 against my third round opponent, with a pretty much unwinnable board, and he must have been 0-2 at the time. I punted my last match horribly, and I don't even feel bad about it after the day I'd had His deck was much more typical sealed fare too, a couple of marginal inclusions, stretched manabase, etc. Everyone else managed to open a pool that would easily 3-0 most draft tables.
Now, I'm sure I was just unlucky, but I should never be in a position where I walk out wondering, even if it's just a handful of packs on the line. I'm actually undecided as to whether I'll attend the DGM prerelease, although I probably will. If I do, I'm only playing in the first flight. If it hadn't been for my experience at the GTC event, I'd definitely be playing at least 2 flights, and probably 3. As it stands, it's simply too easy for someone to put cards from previous decks/winnings into their deck with no oversight at all. Sure people can trade stuff around with their friends in the first flight, but that's less concerning.
My LGS is missing out on money that I would otherwise have spent simply because they don't spend 20 minutes registering decks. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it again, I'm probably going to call around to every store here and find out if they do registration. If one does, that's where I'll play. That way I can play a couple extra flights too.
I despise the local format. I loved going to the big regional pre-releases back in the day. There are a few pros to the small, LGS model, but it's mostly cramped, slow, unadulterated, overly long, inefficient, unjudged, disorganized, late, and even smellier poppycock.
I despise the local format. I loved going to the big regional pre-releases back in the day. There are a few pros to the small, LGS model, but it's mostly cramped, slow, unadulterated, overly long, inefficient, unjudged, disorganized, late, and even smellier poppycock.
Haha that's one thing I had forgotten too. The sheer overpowering smell
ewwww yea the smell. I hate opening a pack of cards and then giving them back to the tournament organizer. I take very good care of my cards and others I touch. How many times have we all seen those guys (even the pros) licking their fingers or just handling greasy food or chips, and then touching cards with their nasty prints.
It really does give me a headache after too long. Girls are so much better to hang around than Magic nerds.
What about the girls who are Magic nerds? Also, am I the only one who has a local shop, etc where the players actually have decent hygiene or something?
What about the girls who are Magic nerds? Also, am I the only one who has a local shop, etc where the players actually have decent hygiene or something?
Could be that you guys have no sense of smell too If you put 100 people in a room for a few hours and a fair percentage of them are teenage boys, you're going to need some pretty amazing ventilation, no matter what kind of hygiene standards they have
Could be that you guys have no sense of smell too If you put 100 people in a room for a few hours and a fair percentage of them are teenage boys, you're going to need some pretty amazing ventilation, no matter what kind of hygiene standards they have
I can say with all certainty that the large events can be just as assaulting to the olfactory system as a small game store, and sometimes worse, if the A/C system is on the fritz.
I am having a hard time finding places around where I live where they will do a Pre-Release event. Most card shops are doing release events next week, but dammit, I need my fix.
In truth, the smell is better for me at the LGS than at the biguns. But, that's because very few there smoke. If half of them did, I would take the big pre-release smell over 20 smokers in a cramped space any day of the week.
But yeah, I go to one in Boulder, Colorado, so many are not your stereotypical Magic player in that they actually do physical activity and bathe afterwards even. Still, it gets bad after a while. Nothing compared to the regional though. I referred to the regional ones as "Stenchfest (year)."
One of the unfortunate things about magic is that it's relatively easy for someone to cheat. Still, this could happen anywhere and anytime. I fail to see how a prerelease is different than any other event in this way.
I think cheating is rampant at prereleases at my LGS. It's just so easy to get away with it.
I had to play against a deck that cast four non-foil Thundering Tanadons in four consecutive turns at the NPH prerelease. We only got 3 NPH packs. The guy said he opened all of them. Store owner had no idea how to rule, so I had to play it out and get stomped.
It really spoils a lot of the fun of these events when some people aren't playing fair and are winning packs because of it.
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Honestly your shop should have a good system for it, it's pretty simple to stop. We just have everyone open their packs and make their decks while sitting directly across someone and beside a person, and with seating arranged randomly there's not going to be a group that just looks the other way as someone puts cards into their pool.
Can people lay out common ways to catch others cheating? I know that since its just one RTR and one GTC pack, a person can only have one of a given card from RTR/GTC in their pool unless one is a foil. Also they can only have a mythic from RTR/GTC that is of their guildleader (aka trostani, obzedat, etc). What else should I look out for? I am hosting one of the prereleases so I am a little more concerned to keep the experience solid.
Can people lay out common ways to catch others cheating? I know that since its just one RTR and one GTC pack, a person can only have one of a given card from RTR/GTC in their pool unless one is a foil. Also they can only have a mythic from RTR/GTC that is of their guildleader (aka trostani, obzedat, etc). What else should I look out for? I am hosting one of the prereleases so I am a little more concerned to keep the experience solid.
Thanks!
If you want to get really in depth, the contents of each guild pack is known/has been posted in this forum. So, for instance, if you see someone with a certain rare/uncommon, you should know what the rest of their rtr/gtc pack is.
Card shops are normally packed, and short of each individual registering their sealed pool as someone watches over them as they're opening it, which doesn't happen, there is nothing preventing anyone from bringing along their favorite RTR, GTC, or DGM cards, or swapping with their friends.
Unless there is someone actually watching each gathering of people, which there won't be, I can't help but think this may be happening.
It's a bit hard to stop people sharing cards from their cardpool with other people in different colours though.
This is how it's done in larger, "tournament style"-esque environments. But for most smaller card shops, the hassle of having players sit down, open up cards that they aren't going to use, register them, receive another set of cards, register those, and then finally receive their pool (that has been looked at/touched/"possibly messed up by" at least 2 other people) just isn't worth the waste of time and hassle. It also slows things down quite a bit and can cause more casual players to walk out of the store and tournament before the games even start.
//stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg">stat.rumandmonkey.com
One reason I was surprised is because there was 100+ players there. Even if it's just one or two dozen guys though, 20 minutes extra for deck registration isn't the end of the world tbh. You're going to be sitting there for 3-6 hours depending how many rounds your flights have anyway.
I totally agree. But I know that I part of the reasoning for my local card shop where I attend pre-releases. I have met people at pre-releases there who have never played magic before, who would undoubtedly been too confused by the procedure to have given it a try. It's not the most fair procedure, and sure people can cheat or game the system, but in all my years playing there, the honor system has only failed once at that store. And that was a guy from out of town who had been banned from his local stores for cheating:-/.
//stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg">stat.rumandmonkey.com
At the GTC prerelease however, everyone I faced in the first three rounds had the absolute nuts. I was at 8 on turn 4 against my third round opponent, with a pretty much unwinnable board, and he must have been 0-2 at the time. I punted my last match horribly, and I don't even feel bad about it after the day I'd had His deck was much more typical sealed fare too, a couple of marginal inclusions, stretched manabase, etc. Everyone else managed to open a pool that would easily 3-0 most draft tables.
Now, I'm sure I was just unlucky, but I should never be in a position where I walk out wondering, even if it's just a handful of packs on the line. I'm actually undecided as to whether I'll attend the DGM prerelease, although I probably will. If I do, I'm only playing in the first flight. If it hadn't been for my experience at the GTC event, I'd definitely be playing at least 2 flights, and probably 3. As it stands, it's simply too easy for someone to put cards from previous decks/winnings into their deck with no oversight at all. Sure people can trade stuff around with their friends in the first flight, but that's less concerning.
My LGS is missing out on money that I would otherwise have spent simply because they don't spend 20 minutes registering decks. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it again, I'm probably going to call around to every store here and find out if they do registration. If one does, that's where I'll play. That way I can play a couple extra flights too.
Haha that's one thing I had forgotten too. The sheer overpowering smell
just very disrespectful... yuck
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What about the girls who are Magic nerds? Also, am I the only one who has a local shop, etc where the players actually have decent hygiene or something?
Nope. My shop is fine too.
Yeah, I do have a poor sense of smell.
I am having a hard time finding places around where I live where they will do a Pre-Release event. Most card shops are doing release events next week, but dammit, I need my fix.
But yeah, I go to one in Boulder, Colorado, so many are not your stereotypical Magic player in that they actually do physical activity and bathe afterwards even. Still, it gets bad after a while. Nothing compared to the regional though. I referred to the regional ones as "Stenchfest (year)."
~M
*DCI Rules Advisor*
I had to play against a deck that cast four non-foil Thundering Tanadons in four consecutive turns at the NPH prerelease. We only got 3 NPH packs. The guy said he opened all of them. Store owner had no idea how to rule, so I had to play it out and get stomped.
It really spoils a lot of the fun of these events when some people aren't playing fair and are winning packs because of it.
EDH
Azami (video)
:symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
Drana (video) (retired)
:symw::symr: Brion (video)
:symb::symr: Wort (video)
Arcum (video) (retired)
:symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
B Shirei (video)
WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
R Urabrask (video)
WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
W Isamaru
UB Grimgrin
U Mistform Ultimus (video)
UBR Gwendlyn (video)
URG Animar (video)
RG Thromok
WB Selenia
Standard
WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
WUB Battle of Wits!
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If you want to get really in depth, the contents of each guild pack is known/has been posted in this forum. So, for instance, if you see someone with a certain rare/uncommon, you should know what the rest of their rtr/gtc pack is.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Apln2HM4aSGbdDJ6MFk5cTBjb09sXzFWdndhTkx2V1E&toomany=true#gid=0