Here's another card that I disagree with LSV's rating of. He puts it at 3.5, saying:
"A pinger with two shots still does most everything you want a pinger to do, and this is a lot more than that."
I completely disagree with that first statement. A pinger with two shots doesn't do anything close to what I want a pinger to do. Getting two activations is not terrible, but it's not great either. Yes, it can get more activations, but that requires energy, which is not a free resource. If I've got free energy, I think I'd rather be putting +1/+1 counters on my attackers than pinging a creature with it.
Yes there are times when you play this and the next turn it does 6 damage to your opponent. That makes it a cheaper lava axe that does one more damage, at the cost of some energy. Also it has to live for a turn to do so, and with 2 toughness, it's pretty vulnerable to pretty much every type of removal.
If you've got gobs of energy and can keep it alive for multiple turns, then it can win the game by doing 12+ points of damage to your opponent. But I suspect that will be well outside of its normal use case.
I am in a holding pattern on this one. I will need to see how it goes but I am inclined to agree with you. If my opponent is pounding me with some medium creatures and I cast this on turn 3 or 4, it does basically nothing to help me. I guess it depends upon how many decent creatures it would remove with its ping.
If my opponent is pounding me with some medium creatures and I cast this on turn 3 or 4, it does basically nothing to help me.
LSV would be aware of that.
We haven't seen actual Prodigal Pyromancer in a set in a long time. There's a degree of threat of activation which this gets to exploit without having to spend energy and it does need a touch more synergy to make use of the 1/2 body in the event that you run out or want to use its energy for something else.
If you're already beating down with a Thriving creature, this gives immediate pressure and then untaps to threaten a ping or just more pressure. If you count it as 2R for two +1/+1 counters and a 1/2, that's kind of a good deal. But sometimes the pinging is more relevant. The flexibility is power.
Threat of activation is a good point. Once this no longer has summoning sickness, my opponent probably will not want to attack with his 2/2 flyer into my 1/1 flyer with an easy ping at the ready. It remains to be seen whether just a limited number of pings, though, is worth using a card slot in the deck. My guess is mostly yes but I don't think I would want to prioritize drafting this unless I had a good number of other cards which relied on energy, in which case I would rate this as a good 3.5 in that type of deck.
I like what WotC has done with energy. There are many different types of effects which are enabled with it, and it will make for some very interesting choices during games on what to use energy for. I know that some of their recent comments have indicated that recent sets have increased in complexity and they want to tone it down a bit (or at least that's my interpretation of their comments), but I think that with vehicles, energy, and fabricate that will increase the complexity of decisions (which in my book is a good thing).
I think he's really good in Sealed where he's going to give all your creatures +1/+0 in practice with threat of activation. But I think draft might turn out so aggressive in Kaladesh that a pinger is not quite good enough. Although there's lots of servos, there's not many tempting creatures to play upside down, especially when you consider the an X/1 Fabricate should probably be used for counters if that player has seen any mountains.
Looking at his rating scale I'd call this a 3.0. Better than the "solid playables" he listed at 2.5, but not on par with the stuff he listed at 3.5.
This is the kind of card that will be dominant in the right deck/matchup, nullifying multiple opposing cards while also threatening to be a wincon if you have a recursive energy source. It also plays just fine as a one-shot pinger in a more aggressive deck that will be looking to use the energy elsewhere most of the time.
Yes, if you are up against Gx and your opponent is curving out on you with fat dudes this will be subpar. But IMO that downside is easily offset by the various upsides he presents in other situations. As someone else pointed out, flexibility is very valuable. Maybe he doesn't block their Rhino or Outrider well, but the energy he brings means that your removal spell now does.
I had one of these main deck as an energy source and ended up going to two of them due to the efficiency of their energy production. It was an all-star for me and my aggro red-white deck.
I had one of these main deck as an energy source and ended up going to two of them due to the efficiency of their energy production. It was an all-star for me and my aggro red-white deck.
I had one of these main deck as an energy source and ended up going to two of them due to the efficiency of their energy production. It was an all-star for me and my aggro red-white deck.
What were you typically using the energy for?
I had 2x Eddytrail Hawk, which was my main energy consumer, but I also had 4x Thriving Grubs that would commonly get the pump, too.
There were some long-tail scenarios, as well. I had one game where the Renegade kept my Lathnu Hellion alive and allowed me to fly over the top with it and the Eddytrail Hawk.
I also had one game that stalled, and my opponent scooped when I started bouncing the Aethertorch Renegade with my Decoction Module.
When we switched over to 2HG and re-used our card pools, I found that Aethertorch Renegade into Die Young will kill just about anything.
I think I only activated the Renegade's ping ability a couple times.
I agree. I think a big part of the utility of pingers is that you can go face, and you get to do so "for free". Sure, if you kill a few x/1s this starts to look pretty good, but if you're in a board stall I'd much rather have a real pinger, and while prodigal pingers are fine cards they aren't mind-blowing. This guy seems decent but unexciting to me, and pretty bad if you're getting beaten down.
Here's another card that I disagree with LSV's rating of. He puts it at 3.5, saying:
"A pinger with two shots still does most everything you want a pinger to do, and this is a lot more than that."
I completely disagree with that first statement. A pinger with two shots doesn't do anything close to what I want a pinger to do. Getting two activations is not terrible, but it's not great either. Yes, it can get more activations, but that requires energy, which is not a free resource. If I've got free energy, I think I'd rather be putting +1/+1 counters on my attackers than pinging a creature with it.
Yes there are times when you play this and the next turn it does 6 damage to your opponent. That makes it a cheaper lava axe that does one more damage, at the cost of some energy. Also it has to live for a turn to do so, and with 2 toughness, it's pretty vulnerable to pretty much every type of removal.
If you've got gobs of energy and can keep it alive for multiple turns, then it can win the game by doing 12+ points of damage to your opponent. But I suspect that will be well outside of its normal use case.
I would give it a 2.5, not a 3.5 like LSV did.
We haven't seen actual Prodigal Pyromancer in a set in a long time. There's a degree of threat of activation which this gets to exploit without having to spend energy and it does need a touch more synergy to make use of the 1/2 body in the event that you run out or want to use its energy for something else.
If you're already beating down with a Thriving creature, this gives immediate pressure and then untaps to threaten a ping or just more pressure. If you count it as 2R for two +1/+1 counters and a 1/2, that's kind of a good deal. But sometimes the pinging is more relevant. The flexibility is power.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
I like what WotC has done with energy. There are many different types of effects which are enabled with it, and it will make for some very interesting choices during games on what to use energy for. I know that some of their recent comments have indicated that recent sets have increased in complexity and they want to tone it down a bit (or at least that's my interpretation of their comments), but I think that with vehicles, energy, and fabricate that will increase the complexity of decisions (which in my book is a good thing).
This is the kind of card that will be dominant in the right deck/matchup, nullifying multiple opposing cards while also threatening to be a wincon if you have a recursive energy source. It also plays just fine as a one-shot pinger in a more aggressive deck that will be looking to use the energy elsewhere most of the time.
Yes, if you are up against Gx and your opponent is curving out on you with fat dudes this will be subpar. But IMO that downside is easily offset by the various upsides he presents in other situations. As someone else pointed out, flexibility is very valuable. Maybe he doesn't block their Rhino or Outrider well, but the energy he brings means that your removal spell now does.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
I had 2x Eddytrail Hawk, which was my main energy consumer, but I also had 4x Thriving Grubs that would commonly get the pump, too.
There were some long-tail scenarios, as well. I had one game where the Renegade kept my Lathnu Hellion alive and allowed me to fly over the top with it and the Eddytrail Hawk.
I also had one game that stalled, and my opponent scooped when I started bouncing the Aethertorch Renegade with my Decoction Module.
When we switched over to 2HG and re-used our card pools, I found that Aethertorch Renegade into Die Young will kill just about anything.
I think I only activated the Renegade's ping ability a couple times.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6