I love how incredibly strong the uncommons are in this set, and how many ways they can go. I've done 16 spells R/U with Trail of Evidence as a value engine to lead to a Rise from the Tides kill. I've done a G/U grindy investigation based deck with a pair of Fleeting Memories as the primary win condition. I've done mono-red werewolf aggro with Spiteful Motives and Breakneck Rider as the core engine cards. I've lost to Behind the Scenes more than any other single card so far. The rares seem much less dominating than usual by comparison, which I really like, and I've seen a lot of different strategies work.
The amount of card advantage available in the set and relative weakness of the common 2 drops also helps push the games a little longer and adds a lot of decision points to the game, which I feel leads to more depth. Overall, I am deeply impressed with the draft experience with this set, and I am very much looking forward to playing much more of it.
Now onto the set. SOI is a tough nut to crack. I have been both walloped by blitzingly fast decks and outvalued by decks with grindy card advantage engines and even faced decks that can do a little of both. The stark contrast between damage racing and value building has me calling SOI a Modern Light format, which is refreshing since most draft formats tend to lean to one side or the other. Still, I get an ominous feeling that this is a have-or-have-not set. Lucking out in draft seems to have a heavy sway on your deck performance, perhaps because some of the more powerful cards are build-arounds that are incredibly hard to interact with, if not impossible in certain color combinations. Maybe players are still new to this set (me included), but the number of games where I either overwhelm or get overwhelmed by opponent seems noticeably higher.
Cogent analysis.
I have to concur that the format feels a bit like Modern; there's a whole lot of decks to build, plenty of insane plays to make, and numerous divergent strategies. That said, it can also feel as though interaction is at a minimum. Many powerful cards are Enchantments, Artifacts, or Instants/Sorceries and not every deck or every color is able to deal with these types of cards. Additionally, removal for non-creatures is somewhat sparse, even in the colors that can normally interact with them. Angelic Purge is about the only maindeckable common that can answer many of the insane value Artifacts/Enchantments and Root Out the only "real" Sideboard card.
I'm having fun with the format most of the time, and enjoy the diversity of deck archetypes, but many games are completely one-sided affairs partially because of the variety of strategies (and partially due to the insanely pushed aggro decks just blowing out slow starts).
Given the power of enchantments in this set, I feel relatively comfortable maindecking a single Root Out. Most people are going to have a target, and sometimes that target is going to be really important.
Just finished my 4th draft and sadly I'm calling it quits on the format. Werewolves are just way too overpowered. Red and green are so much better than anything else that you get 3 green and 3 red drafters at every table. Blue, white and black can't compete because they nerfed removal way too much again. You can't even stall them with 1/5 flyers since flipped wolves have 5 power on average. Totally unbalanced format.
Werewolves don't seem overly powerful to me unless you have the flash enchantment which acts as an anthem and trample and you are able to draft 13+ werewolves if no-one else near you is drafting them. They infrequently flip early in the game -- except the 1/1 haste which is not a good card in my view -- because through most of turns 2-7 or so we just keep casting spells to develop our board, or if they skip a turn to flip then that can really hurt them on defense in addition to offense not developing their board, and then late in the game they flip back and forth but by then you can gum up the board which frequently occurs in this set. The biggest exception is if the opponent stumbles on mana or on casting spells with a bad draw, and then the game can end more quickly than it would in a format without werewolves.
So far I believe that a variety of different archetypes are winning with reasonable frequency, although blue seems to be the least powerful overall.
Hammer: I am sorry you are having difficulty with the werewolves.
I will point out, though, that if you assume 2-color decks, and 8 players per pod, then there should be 16 player-color pairs in the pod. Evenly dividing the colors among the players would have each color show up in a little over 3 players' pools, if not decks. As such, '3 red and 3 green drafters in a pod' is actually a bit low.
I finished two of the 'friendly sealed leagues' over the past two days (going 7-2 and 8-1). I skillfully lucksacked into opening an Avacyn in both of my pools, but only played her in the second, because the first pool had not enough white. She is actually pretty hard to flip because your dudes become indestructable when she comes into play, but obviously the card is just bonkers.
The matches I lost were to the demon land (a 9/7 lifelinking indestructible creature wins games, who would have thought!), double manaflood and an insane RG deck that looked more like a constructed deck than a limited deck, but that was in round 9 so with a total of 8 packs to work with, which makes decks obviously better and more synergystic. It was actually quite fun to improve your deck between rounds and having to re-evaluate if your chosen color combination was still the best.
I ran UG and WG myself and never felt the need to swap colors as packs were added. I played a total of 18 games and *every* *single* *one* of my opponents ran forests. No exceptions. Between the 2-mana removal, the 2/5 reach spider and the werewolves - all at common - green is just so much better than everything else at common. Apparently it's also really easy to open enough green, because it has very few unplayables. Even the low-tier creatures are reasonable plays and with so many busted enchantments and solid equipment around, maindecking artifact/enchantment removal is not a bad idea. With blue and especially black, you need some sort of synergy payoff mechanic to make the creatures compete with green and white's vanilla bodies, which may well be possible in draft, but is not quite the norm in sealed.
I've felt the same in my sealeds online (3 5-match, now trying out a friendly). Seems like everyone is playing Green, often paired with white, then with maybe a splash of black/red for bombs/removal.
In draft things feel much more balanced, although green still seems like the best color overall. Werewolves are scary, but manageable if you make sure you respect them in deck-building and include plenty of early drops (even if it is filler/cantrip/vessel type stuff). If your opponent is forced to pass the turn w/o a play in order to flip them then they aren't nearly as scary most of the time.
[quote from="MissMua »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/limited-sealed-draft/685706-soi-first-impressions?comment=75"]I've felt the same in my sealeds online (3 5-match, now trying out a friendly). Seems like everyone is playing Green, often paired with white, then with maybe a splash of black/red for bombs/removal.
This mirrors my experience as well. The fail case for Green creatures is very reasonable and they pull their weight in games in which you don't unlock their potential. Most can play both offense and defense. What Green lacks is a bit of reach to close the game, which pretty much every other color can provide.
GW has been my best Sealed color pair by far up until now (and my opponent's GW based decks are always though). On top of the great commons/uncommons, the G and W rares ask very little of you and will take over the game.
To be fair though, my initial attempts at other decks (Madness, Delirium, etc) weren't optimal. I'm getting the hang of them now and the results are improving, but if I could pick, I'd choose a decent GW pool all of the time.
[quote from="MissMua »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/limited-sealed-draft/685706-soi-first-impressions?comment=75"]I finished two of the 'friendly sealed leagues' over the past two days (going 7-2 and 8-1). I skillfully lucksacked into opening an Avacyn in both of my pools, but only played her in the second, because the first pool had not enough white. She is actually pretty hard to flip because your dudes become indestructable when she comes into play, but obviously the card is just bonkers.
In draft things feel much more balanced, although green still seems like the best color overall. Werewolves are scary, but manageable if you make sure you respect them in deck-building and include plenty of early drops (even if it is filler/cantrip/vessel type stuff). If your opponent is forced to pass the turn w/o a play in order to flip them then they aren't nearly as scary most of the time.
See, that is the problem. The early drops in other colours just don't do enough to slow down the werewolves at all. The wolves can flip and then blow through any defenses. I always respect drafting to curve and having decent 2 drops, but it just isn't good enough. What we really need are stuff like fortified rampart or an efficient tapper to stand any kind of chance against them. You would think stuff like just the wind would be great against them too, but because they are so cheap to cast the opponent will just shrug and play them on second main phase again.
Be a man and take the hit, play your JtW in their end step.
It prevent potential werewolves flipping if they didn't play anything. (And they thus wasted their 'skip turn'.) It prevent it from being replayed. If they replay it they prevent existing WW from flipping and it won't flip for another turn at the least. It's worthwhile to take the hit.
I have had my best draft luck in blue/black control with a madness sub-theme. The two drafts it was open I never even lost a game let alone a match and it wasn't even close. One of the decks even lacked rares. Control is real in this set if built right and not fought over. I also had luck with Black/red control with a heavy madness theme swept once and came out second after loosing to an green/white/blue deck that just way out resourced me. Never once lost a match to werewolves in 8 drafts and 4 sealed events. If you go for underplayed colors with heave evasion and removal focusing on evasion/removal/cheap effective blockers with big toughness numbers (4 plus) wolves can be beat. With clues in blue I never let them flip on my turn and if they loose tempo not casting on theirs well great a good piece of removal later the're playing catch up. Got to love it when opponents give you a free time walk.
With clues in blue I never let them flip on my turn and if they loose tempo not casting on theirs well great a good piece of removal later the're playing catch up. Got to love it when opponents give you a free time walk.
Not sure what you mean. Sacrificing a clue does not equal casting a spell and has no bearing on whether wolves flip or not.
Be a man and take the hit, play your JtW in their end step.
It prevent potential werewolves flipping if they didn't play anything. (And they thus wasted their 'skip turn'.) It prevent it from being replayed. If they replay it they prevent existing WW from flipping and it won't flip for another turn at the least. It's worthwhile to take the hit.
Sometimes they can get to 9 power. Still think that is worth 'taking the hit'? They can alpha strike on turn 5 a lot of games.
I really like the fact that decks often end up less in one specific synergy and more with a variety of synergies that can come up. It's not that you're forcing madness and only taking discard outlets and madness cards, it's that your deck will have some madness outlets and some madness cards, alongside a few other synergies. Makes the drafting a lot more interesting - do I take this equipment that interacts with my one or two equipment matters cards, or this madness card that interacts with my two or three discard outlets?
With clues in blue I never let them flip on my turn and if they loose tempo not casting on theirs well great a good piece of removal later the're playing catch up. Got to love it when opponents give you a free time walk.
Not sure what you mean. Sacrificing a clue does not equal casting a spell and has no bearing on whether wolves flip or not.
Be a man and take the hit, play your JtW in their end step.
It prevent potential werewolves flipping if they didn't play anything. (And they thus wasted their 'skip turn'.) It prevent it from being replayed. If they replay it they prevent existing WW from flipping and it won't flip for another turn at the least. It's worthwhile to take the hit.
Sometimes they can get to 9 power. Still think that is worth 'taking the hit'? They can alpha strike on turn 5 a lot of games.
With clues in blue I never let them flip on my turn and if they loose tempo not casting on theirs well great a good piece of removal later the're playing catch up. Got to love it when opponents give you a free time walk.
Not sure what you mean. Sacrificing a clue does not equal casting a spell and has no bearing on whether wolves flip or not.
[quote from="scoed »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/limited-sealed-draft/685706-soi-first-impressions?comment=82"]With clues in blue I never let them flip on my turn and if they loose tempo not casting on theirs well great a good piece of removal later the're playing catch up. Got to love it when opponents give you a free time walk.
Not sure what you mean. Sacrificing a clue does not equal casting a spell and has no bearing on whether wolves flip or not.
You miss understand me clues give cards cards unless they are lands are spells. If you are drawing multiple cards a turn you always have spells to play, well usually any way. If you always have spells to play dumb little werewolves stay little. If they stay little and you kill they don't kill on turn 5. Again I drafted tonight and still haven't lost to wolves. My black/red mostly vampires deck took first. Green is the strongest color thus over drafted.
So, I am going to say, I have absolutely loved this format so far. Lot's of viable archetypes, aggro is not oppressive, lot's of cool things you can do.
So, I am going to say, I have absolutely loved this format so far. Lot's of viable archetypes, aggro is not oppressive, lot's of cool things you can do.
Same. Very well balanced in terms of being able to go very deep with decks that worry about decking themselves while also being able to draft hyper-aggressive decks full of 1-3 drops and tricks...with both being viable. And I think glacial's sentiment is part of that too. Synergies matter, but not to the point that every deck in a given color pair is trying to fit a narrow archetype that looks the same draft after draft (ala MM2).
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The amount of card advantage available in the set and relative weakness of the common 2 drops also helps push the games a little longer and adds a lot of decision points to the game, which I feel leads to more depth. Overall, I am deeply impressed with the draft experience with this set, and I am very much looking forward to playing much more of it.
Cogent analysis.
I have to concur that the format feels a bit like Modern; there's a whole lot of decks to build, plenty of insane plays to make, and numerous divergent strategies. That said, it can also feel as though interaction is at a minimum. Many powerful cards are Enchantments, Artifacts, or Instants/Sorceries and not every deck or every color is able to deal with these types of cards. Additionally, removal for non-creatures is somewhat sparse, even in the colors that can normally interact with them. Angelic Purge is about the only maindeckable common that can answer many of the insane value Artifacts/Enchantments and Root Out the only "real" Sideboard card.
I'm having fun with the format most of the time, and enjoy the diversity of deck archetypes, but many games are completely one-sided affairs partially because of the variety of strategies (and partially due to the insanely pushed aggro decks just blowing out slow starts).
So far I believe that a variety of different archetypes are winning with reasonable frequency, although blue seems to be the least powerful overall.
I will point out, though, that if you assume 2-color decks, and 8 players per pod, then there should be 16 player-color pairs in the pod. Evenly dividing the colors among the players would have each color show up in a little over 3 players' pools, if not decks. As such, '3 red and 3 green drafters in a pod' is actually a bit low.
I've felt the same in my sealeds online (3 5-match, now trying out a friendly). Seems like everyone is playing Green, often paired with white, then with maybe a splash of black/red for bombs/removal.
In draft things feel much more balanced, although green still seems like the best color overall. Werewolves are scary, but manageable if you make sure you respect them in deck-building and include plenty of early drops (even if it is filler/cantrip/vessel type stuff). If your opponent is forced to pass the turn w/o a play in order to flip them then they aren't nearly as scary most of the time.
This mirrors my experience as well. The fail case for Green creatures is very reasonable and they pull their weight in games in which you don't unlock their potential. Most can play both offense and defense. What Green lacks is a bit of reach to close the game, which pretty much every other color can provide.
GW has been my best Sealed color pair by far up until now (and my opponent's GW based decks are always though). On top of the great commons/uncommons, the G and W rares ask very little of you and will take over the game.
To be fair though, my initial attempts at other decks (Madness, Delirium, etc) weren't optimal. I'm getting the hang of them now and the results are improving, but if I could pick, I'd choose a decent GW pool all of the time.
See, that is the problem. The early drops in other colours just don't do enough to slow down the werewolves at all. The wolves can flip and then blow through any defenses. I always respect drafting to curve and having decent 2 drops, but it just isn't good enough. What we really need are stuff like fortified rampart or an efficient tapper to stand any kind of chance against them. You would think stuff like just the wind would be great against them too, but because they are so cheap to cast the opponent will just shrug and play them on second main phase again.
It prevent potential werewolves flipping if they didn't play anything. (And they thus wasted their 'skip turn'.) It prevent it from being replayed. If they replay it they prevent existing WW from flipping and it won't flip for another turn at the least. It's worthwhile to take the hit.
Not sure what you mean. Sacrificing a clue does not equal casting a spell and has no bearing on whether wolves flip or not.
Sometimes they can get to 9 power. Still think that is worth 'taking the hit'? They can alpha strike on turn 5 a lot of games.
Same. Very well balanced in terms of being able to go very deep with decks that worry about decking themselves while also being able to draft hyper-aggressive decks full of 1-3 drops and tricks...with both being viable. And I think glacial's sentiment is part of that too. Synergies matter, but not to the point that every deck in a given color pair is trying to fit a narrow archetype that looks the same draft after draft (ala MM2).