It's pack 3 pick 2. I already have 2 Roil's Retribution and a fair amount of removal. I'm a bit low on creatures, especially good creatures. Cub isn't amazing but it's a curve filler. Do you grab a Cub before the 3rd Roil's Retribution early in the pack, or do you just hope that you can grab enough decent playable creatures in pack 3? After all, there's still time left.
Here's what I ended up with. As you can see, deck is a bit 5cc heavy (Kalastria Nightwatch and Geyserfield Stalker were among the creatures I knabbed late and only because there were no 2-3cc creatures in those packs).
Despite low creature count, played Bone Splinters over Demon's Grasp to smooth the curve a bit. Also, it's not like a lot of those creatures would be missed.
So... what do you think? With 8 removal spells already drafted (2 Smite, 2 Roil's, Sheer, Splinters, Blighted, Grasp) and with a low creature count, are you THAT desperate at pack 3 pick 2 that you'd grab a lowly Felidar Cub over the 3rd Roil's? Or do you just greedily take the Roil's and hope you see better creatures than Geyserfield Stalker, Kalastria Nightwatch and Kalastria Healer?
If those are the only choices, then I would take the cub. Roil's Retribution is in my view a decent card but not great, and I don't know that I would ever want to run 3, I would rather run Demon's Grasp (a card I like overall) than a 3rd or even a 2nd retribution. Also, I dislike Slab Hammer quite a bit, I would rather run Grave Birthing (a card I think is decent in this deck).
Roil's Retribution just isn't a very good card. Like the above poster said, I would never want more than 2, and even in your deck I'd probably only play 1. It's really clunky to hold up 5 mana every turn and hope that your opponent attacks or blocks with the right combination of creatures that allow you to get a 2 for 1.
I think playing the Bone Splinters is correct due to its efficiency, but I probably wouldn't play Stone Haven Medic, Voracious Null, or Slab Hammer. Eldrazi Devastator is also questionable with no ramp; it's probably better to play another evasive 5 mana card, like Geyserfield Stalker, instead. (I think 7 mana is the cutoff for decks with no ramp, so Bane of Bala Ged or Ruin Processor will usually make the cut over Breaker of Armies and Eldrazi Devastator.) Other than that, Demon's Grasp is a good card that kills 99% of the creatures in the format, Lithomancer's Focus is a very efficient combat trick, and Grave Birthing cycles. I wouldn't mind putting any of those cards in over the cuts I suggested.
Overall it looks like you tried to draft "the lifegain deck" which I don't think exists in this format. The main payoff cards are decent on their own, like Kalastria Nightwatch, so there's no reason to play mediocre filler like Stone Haven Medic to turn them on. The best lifegain cards (Drana's Emissary, Ondu Rising) are also good enough on their own that there's no reason to put mediocre cards in your deck for "synergy." Kalastria Healer also looks unplayable in your deck now that I'm realizing you only have 5 allies. You drafted yourself into a corner and didn't leave yourself with any outs.
Roil's Retribution just isn't a very good card. Like the above poster said, I would never want more than 2, and even in your deck I'd probably only play 1. It's really clunky to hold up 5 mana every turn and hope that your opponent attacks or blocks with the right combination of creatures that allow you to get a 2 for 1.
I think playing the Bone Splinters is correct due to its efficiency, but I probably wouldn't play Stone Haven Medic, Voracious Null, or Slab Hammer. Eldrazi Devastator is also questionable with no ramp; it's probably better to play another evasive 5 mana card, like Geyserfield Stalker, instead. (I think 7 mana is the cutoff for decks with no ramp, so Bane of Bala Ged or Ruin Processor will usually make the cut over Breaker of Armies and Eldrazi Devastator.) Other than that, Demon's Grasp is a good card that kills 99% of the creatures in the format, Lithomancer's Focus is a very efficient combat trick, and Grave Birthing cycles. I wouldn't mind putting any of those cards in over the cuts I suggested.
Overall it looks like you tried to draft "the lifegain deck" which I don't think exists in this format. The main payoff cards are decent on their own, like Kalastria Nightwatch, so there's no reason to play mediocre filler like Stone Haven Medic to turn them on. The best lifegain cards (Drana's Emissary, Ondu Rising) are also good enough on their own that there's no reason to put mediocre cards in your deck for "synergy." Kalastria Healer also looks unplayable in your deck now that I'm realizing you only have 5 allies. You drafted yourself into a corner and didn't leave yourself with any outs.
Roil's Retribution isn't too clunky. If it only hit attackers then I would agree, but because it hits blockers too it actually isn't clunky at all. If you are on the offensive then you swing, if they block you can use it, if not then you cast your spells. If you are on defense then that means they are attacking you...so you aren't wasting your mana by keeping it up (if they play around it by not attacking...that's ok too, you are on defense and just fogged them without spending a card). Basically at most points in the game, once you hit 5-mana, this will be strong. Now that said, it is still a 5-mana removal spell, which is on the high side (although not relative to its power level and compared to what black/red got in this set). You can only afford to play so much 5-mana removal, so I probably don't want more than 2 of these in most decks.
I disagree strongly about the lifegain deck too, that is a real thing when it comes together. Of course here it just didn't come together and the result is going to be disappointing, but that would be true of any synergy oriented deck that whiffed. The problem is that he needs more of the powerful rewards and just didn't get them.
To the OP, I would take the Cub in that spot. I think Retribution is very good, but at that point the need for creatures and lower drops more than offsets the power differential.
After playing it, I 100% agree that I overvalued Retribution. I saw it blow people out at the prerelease (Sealed is slower, people don't know all the tricks) and considered it a top uncommon for its ability to kill multiple things at instant speed, considering it an Arrow Volley Trap. Trap it is not. I think I would play 1 in a deck at most, and not more. Lesson learned.
I wasn't trying to draft the lifegain deck. I P1P1 the Overseer (in a generally weak pack 1) and was trying to force GB tokens. The next few picks I grabbed were Call of Scions, Eyeless Watcher... but then I saw zero green cards soon after. I realized green was cut, so I switched out, grabbing various things. I saw white stuff go around late so I assumed white was open, taking a late Sheer Drop. And then I saw a bunch of white and black removal in pack 2 so I grabbed that up and ended up in WB, just for the removal and the open signals. But then I never saw 2-3 drops or bombs. I'm assuming other people were grabbing the white and black weenies and synergy cards but passing removal. Pack 3 I realized I was ridiculously low on creatures, so I just grabbed any creatures I could find, which included Geyserfield Stalker, Null, Nightwatch, Eldrazi Devastator, and Stone Haven Medic. I wasn't picking it to try to build the lifegain deck (not worth forcing it without those guys that get +1/+1 counters and the lifedrain effects). I just needed filler. If I could have found playable 2-3 cc stuff, I would have played that instead. Maybe I should have just splashed green (even with no fixing) to be able to play some of my green stuff to have more playables. As is, the deck was pretty terrible.
EDIT: Luckily I redeemed myself by drafting something better at FNM and going 3-0.
Cub for sure. It may not end up making the main deck, but the third retribution (especially when you already have too many clunky removal spells)won't make your deck better before or after sideboard except in really corner cases.
Let's add some context.
It's pack 3 pick 2. I already have 2 Roil's Retribution and a fair amount of removal. I'm a bit low on creatures, especially good creatures. Cub isn't amazing but it's a curve filler. Do you grab a Cub before the 3rd Roil's Retribution early in the pack, or do you just hope that you can grab enough decent playable creatures in pack 3? After all, there's still time left.
Here's what I ended up with. As you can see, deck is a bit 5cc heavy (Kalastria Nightwatch and Geyserfield Stalker were among the creatures I knabbed late and only because there were no 2-3cc creatures in those packs).
2 Kalastria Healer
1 Stone Haven Medic
1 Hagra Sharpshooter
2 Shadow Glider
1 Voracious Null
1 Silent Skimmer
1 Kor Entanglers
1 Kalastria Nightwatch
1 Ondu Rising
1 Sheer Drop
1 Guul Draz Overseer
1 Eldrazi Devastator
1 Bone Splinters
1 Slab Hammer
1 Tandem Tactics
2 Smite the Monstrous
3 Roil's Retribution
//Lands: 18
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Sandstone Bridge
1 Blighted Fen
8 Plains
7 Swamp
1 Geyserfield Stalker
1 Demon's Grasp
1 Lithomancer's Focus
1 Grave Birthing
5 Allies
Curve:
1 - s
2 - cccss
3 - cccc
4 - css
5 - cccsss
6+ - ccc
Despite low creature count, played Bone Splinters over Demon's Grasp to smooth the curve a bit. Also, it's not like a lot of those creatures would be missed.
So... what do you think? With 8 removal spells already drafted (2 Smite, 2 Roil's, Sheer, Splinters, Blighted, Grasp) and with a low creature count, are you THAT desperate at pack 3 pick 2 that you'd grab a lowly Felidar Cub over the 3rd Roil's? Or do you just greedily take the Roil's and hope you see better creatures than Geyserfield Stalker, Kalastria Nightwatch and Kalastria Healer?
I think playing the Bone Splinters is correct due to its efficiency, but I probably wouldn't play Stone Haven Medic, Voracious Null, or Slab Hammer. Eldrazi Devastator is also questionable with no ramp; it's probably better to play another evasive 5 mana card, like Geyserfield Stalker, instead. (I think 7 mana is the cutoff for decks with no ramp, so Bane of Bala Ged or Ruin Processor will usually make the cut over Breaker of Armies and Eldrazi Devastator.) Other than that, Demon's Grasp is a good card that kills 99% of the creatures in the format, Lithomancer's Focus is a very efficient combat trick, and Grave Birthing cycles. I wouldn't mind putting any of those cards in over the cuts I suggested.
Overall it looks like you tried to draft "the lifegain deck" which I don't think exists in this format. The main payoff cards are decent on their own, like Kalastria Nightwatch, so there's no reason to play mediocre filler like Stone Haven Medic to turn them on. The best lifegain cards (Drana's Emissary, Ondu Rising) are also good enough on their own that there's no reason to put mediocre cards in your deck for "synergy." Kalastria Healer also looks unplayable in your deck now that I'm realizing you only have 5 allies. You drafted yourself into a corner and didn't leave yourself with any outs.
Roil's Retribution isn't too clunky. If it only hit attackers then I would agree, but because it hits blockers too it actually isn't clunky at all. If you are on the offensive then you swing, if they block you can use it, if not then you cast your spells. If you are on defense then that means they are attacking you...so you aren't wasting your mana by keeping it up (if they play around it by not attacking...that's ok too, you are on defense and just fogged them without spending a card). Basically at most points in the game, once you hit 5-mana, this will be strong. Now that said, it is still a 5-mana removal spell, which is on the high side (although not relative to its power level and compared to what black/red got in this set). You can only afford to play so much 5-mana removal, so I probably don't want more than 2 of these in most decks.
I disagree strongly about the lifegain deck too, that is a real thing when it comes together. Of course here it just didn't come together and the result is going to be disappointing, but that would be true of any synergy oriented deck that whiffed. The problem is that he needs more of the powerful rewards and just didn't get them.
To the OP, I would take the Cub in that spot. I think Retribution is very good, but at that point the need for creatures and lower drops more than offsets the power differential.
I wasn't trying to draft the lifegain deck. I P1P1 the Overseer (in a generally weak pack 1) and was trying to force GB tokens. The next few picks I grabbed were Call of Scions, Eyeless Watcher... but then I saw zero green cards soon after. I realized green was cut, so I switched out, grabbing various things. I saw white stuff go around late so I assumed white was open, taking a late Sheer Drop. And then I saw a bunch of white and black removal in pack 2 so I grabbed that up and ended up in WB, just for the removal and the open signals. But then I never saw 2-3 drops or bombs. I'm assuming other people were grabbing the white and black weenies and synergy cards but passing removal. Pack 3 I realized I was ridiculously low on creatures, so I just grabbed any creatures I could find, which included Geyserfield Stalker, Null, Nightwatch, Eldrazi Devastator, and Stone Haven Medic. I wasn't picking it to try to build the lifegain deck (not worth forcing it without those guys that get +1/+1 counters and the lifedrain effects). I just needed filler. If I could have found playable 2-3 cc stuff, I would have played that instead. Maybe I should have just splashed green (even with no fixing) to be able to play some of my green stuff to have more playables. As is, the deck was pretty terrible.
EDIT: Luckily I redeemed myself by drafting something better at FNM and going 3-0.
Draft it on Cubetutor!