Just wondering what others' experiences with/against Deadly Wanderings have been so far; how does it seem to compare to expectations, so far?
My own experience with it at my first prerelease (Silumgar, 3-1) was that despite sometimes being awkward to set up, it was the best and most important card in my deck, which surprised me (I'd been concerned that I didn't have a lot of ways to "activate" it). For reference, I had a synergistic Exploit deck whose main weakness was a lack of win conditions (some smallish evasive creatures, but zero dragons or other high-impact finishers). Mirror Mockery, Silumgar's Command, and Silumgar Assassin were the rares.
I think Wanderings was so important in part because I badly needed ways to win, but it's hard to overstate how great the card was for me. I'd probably have won the match I lost if not for my opponent's sideboarded naturalize; that was my only loss in a game where I drew Wanderings.
It's probably worth noting that unlike the Homicidal Seclusion enablers in AVR (e.g., Bone Splinters) Exploit doesn't help set up Wanderings. It has some synergy, as it makes it easier to upgrade your lone creature if you're stuck with a very small (or worse, Pacified) one, but won't reduce your creature count (Rakshasa Gravecaller is a notable nonbo). I found it to be phenomenal regardless; have others found the same thing?
I could not imagine ever using this card. For me limited is about creatures (plural), and keeping creature cards in my hand so that this is active puts me way behind especially if my opponent just removes my creature.
It's a lose-less card, which is nice to have. It's good when you're behind because it gives you life and deathtouch. It help you win faster or does nothing when you're ahead.
for some reason, in my mind i can't think of ever having only one creature out being anything but .. terrible. it feels like all your opponent needs to do is have 2 or 3 fatties and they'll run you over. does it happen more often than i realize?
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Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul "no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Well the idea would be to run extra removal since your deck will naturally want fewer creatures. You keep the most dangerous threats in check with removal, and then the life gain + power boost of Wanderings makes it hard to lose a race, and your creatures are all capable of trading up.
for some reason, in my mind i can't think of ever having only one creature out being anything but .. terrible. it feels like all your opponent needs to do is have 2 or 3 fatties and they'll run you over. does it happen more often than i realize?
If your single guy has vigilance or you have exploit creatures, it's a complete beating.
I am surprised that anyone likes this so much, it takes so much work to get any benefit at all. Removal is great to have regardless of this card, and getting more removal is not easy at all, many of us already try to get as much removal as we reasonably can. It is pretty rare that I have only one creature in play anytime after turn 5.
A vigilance creature would be the way to go but even then they block, both creatures die, and they still have 2-4 creatures in play. Or they just remove your creature and then you are really stuck, especially at instant speed end of turn and now you have no creatures to block anything. Also, how many vigilance creatures can you include in your deck?
If you have a vigilance, flying, indestructible (not just regenerating because that would tap it) creature in play with this, then you almost certainly win.
NFLed, to help my understanding of where you're coming from, did you ever play with or against Homicidal Seclusion in Avacyn Restored? I'm not trying to imply that your opinion isn't valid if you didn't, I'm just wondering if you felt that card was overrated, if you believe that differences between the two Limited environments will make Wanderings much worse, or something else.
Yeah I have a feeling that NFLed never played with Homicidal Seclusion in AVR. Though Deadly Wanderings doesn't seem like it's nearly as good. MagicMerl, you said it's the highest non rare that you rated, did you get any first hand experience with it over the weekend? If so would you mind sharing some of your stories/experiences?
Basically, the idea is that you play an attrition game. The lifelink means you can't really get raced even if your opponent is pretty far ahead on the board, and the deathtouch means you can't fall too far behind on the board anyway. Eventually your opponent will either fall behind attempting to race you or else he'll run out of creatures to trade with, and either way you just win. The only ways to beat it are to already have basically won before it lands, have several first strike creatures, or else have an endless supply of removal.
Seclusion was literally the only good thing to come out of AVR.
Deadly Wanderings was great for me in sealed, and I found the addition of deathtouch on this version of Homicidal Seclusion relevant fairly often. The ability to threaten to trade small value creatures like Palace Familiar with their dragons was often enough to keep them from attacking, and the ability to attack with the mana open to flash in a Silumgar Sorcerer (exploiting whatever attacked) really played head-games with my opponents in games 2 and 3. And heaven forbid I was able to get Skywise Teachings into play at the same time. I had a number of spells with which to flash in flying/lifelink/deathtouch blockers on an empty board at instant speed. The only match I lost was to a Naya Tokens deck which at different times overwhelmed me with Dragon Fodders and Secure the Wastes, or completely shut me down with Dragonlord Dromoka (Which I purposely baited out forgetting that it couldn't be countered!).
That said, I still didn't even win the event, and I seriously doubt I'd be able to draft anything close to the deck I ended up playing:
Avacyn was a very different format. The removal in that set was abysmal. The removal in this set is quite plentiful. I am very sure this is not the best uncommon in the format, but I do agree it's playable. It is very vulnerable to removal though. If you have a 3-3 with this out and are facing a big board and get it removed/bounced/pacified you could be dead very quick.
My expectation of this going into the prerelease was that it could be workable but too awkward to be great (it is a little worse than Homicidal Seclusion, and AVR was certainly friendlier to this type of thing than I expect DTK to be); I almost didn't play it. I was blown away by how much it overperformed. Expectations: exceeded.
I was certainly playing it as a finisher in a control deck. So removal, combined with trading creatures aggressively if I already had the Wanderings in hand, kept the board states from getting too far out of hand. I also had a fair amount of exploit and related enablers, which helped finesse certain situations. E.g., getting to swing with your lone creature, then exploit it for value to leave you with an untapped creature, really only has to be done once to get a big leg up in a potential race.
People talk about how great removal is in the set, but my experience at the pre-release was that any toughness-increase turns off almost all removal. There are a few that still work great (pacifism, ultimate price), but otherwise a simple boost above 5 toughness nullifies most removal.
I've been beaten by a 3/3 flyer + that 1/3 enchantment that taps when it ETB, while holding a grip of multiple flatten and a [c]death wind[c]. It was annoying.
I had 2 of these in my Silumgar pre-release pool. I didn't play them and went 3-0-2 (intentionally drawing last 2), just beating people with incremental card advantage and a couple dragons at the top end.
I think it would be insane with Qal Sisma Behemoth, but I think you would rather run real cards than 5 mana enchantments in the exploit deck. I guess it would work if you had tons of removal... but doesn't everything?
I played it in a few games against my wife when we used the sealed pool generator prerelease to get familiar with the cards. It was okay but nothing too special. I played it a couple times but only having one creature out when she had 3-4 lost me it when she was able to remove my one creature. Also my deck didn't have a lot of flyers and hers did and thus I wasn't even able to block hers. (I was UB and she was UW) So I got in this awkward position where I could attack but she would just take it and attack me back for 2-3 times what I did to her.
I didn't play it myself in my silumgar pool because I didn't have a lot of removal, but I did convince one of the other players at the store that he should be running it. This was a less experienced player, and after watching him and hearing how it played out in the games where I wasn't watching, he was still unsure on it. It enabled him to win a match that he didn't expect to win, while being pretty bad against the one guy who had multiple pacifism's. His deck had a lot of removal, and all his creatures were either sac fodder or exploits.
I would classify this as a build around me card, with pretty low requirements to build around. You want 12-ish creatures, and want to prioritize removal. Your creatures don't have to be very good, so I would just try to pick them up on the wheel or late in the pack. I would want to take this card about pick 3 or 4. I don't think it is a bomb uncommon, but I would like to draft this highly.
Yeah I have a feeling that NFLed never played with Homicidal Seclusion in AVR. Though Deadly Wanderings doesn't seem like it's nearly as good. MagicMerl, you said it's the highest non rare that you rated, did you get any first hand experience with it over the weekend? If so would you mind sharing some of your stories/experiences?
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Yes, I had it played against me at the pre-release (on a durdly 4/5, which turned into a 6/6 lifelinker). It would have singlehandedly won him the game, except that he accidentally played another creature one turn so I won when it turned into a blank.
not for any useful purpose, but just for my fantasies: is there any way to Donate a creature to your opponent, anymore? (ie to turn of their Deadly Wanderings). Humble Defector is no longer available, (oh, i thought it was in KTK); was that the only way...?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
----------------------------
Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul "no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
not for any useful purpose, but just for my fantasies: is there any way to Donate a creature to your opponent, anymore? (ie to turn of their Deadly Wanderings). Humble Defector is no longer available, (oh, i thought it was in KTK); was that the only way...?
If you want a convoluted hypothetical way, you could Shifting Loyalties an artifact creature to them in exchange for their non-creature artifact (which would, of course, be a terrible deal).
My own experience with it at my first prerelease (Silumgar, 3-1) was that despite sometimes being awkward to set up, it was the best and most important card in my deck, which surprised me (I'd been concerned that I didn't have a lot of ways to "activate" it). For reference, I had a synergistic Exploit deck whose main weakness was a lack of win conditions (some smallish evasive creatures, but zero dragons or other high-impact finishers). Mirror Mockery, Silumgar's Command, and Silumgar Assassin were the rares.
I think Wanderings was so important in part because I badly needed ways to win, but it's hard to overstate how great the card was for me. I'd probably have won the match I lost if not for my opponent's sideboarded naturalize; that was my only loss in a game where I drew Wanderings.
It's probably worth noting that unlike the Homicidal Seclusion enablers in AVR (e.g., Bone Splinters) Exploit doesn't help set up Wanderings. It has some synergy, as it makes it easier to upgrade your lone creature if you're stuck with a very small (or worse, Pacified) one, but won't reduce your creature count (Rakshasa Gravecaller is a notable nonbo). I found it to be phenomenal regardless; have others found the same thing?
Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul
"no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
If your single guy has vigilance or you have exploit creatures, it's a complete beating.
A vigilance creature would be the way to go but even then they block, both creatures die, and they still have 2-4 creatures in play. Or they just remove your creature and then you are really stuck, especially at instant speed end of turn and now you have no creatures to block anything. Also, how many vigilance creatures can you include in your deck?
If you have a vigilance, flying, indestructible (not just regenerating because that would tap it) creature in play with this, then you almost certainly win.
I don't imagine ever playing this card.
Seclusion was literally the only good thing to come out of AVR.
That said, I still didn't even win the event, and I seriously doubt I'd be able to draft anything close to the deck I ended up playing:
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
2 Ojutai interceptor
1 Palace Familiar
1 Rakshasa Gravecaller
1 Silumgar Butcher
2 Silumgar Sorcerer
1 Vulturous Aven
2 Anticipate
1 Deadly Wanderings
3 Defeat
1 Illusory Gains
1 Flatten
1 Reach of Shadows
1 Reduce in Stature
1 Sight Beyond Sight
1 Skywise Teachings
1 Ultimate Price
8 Island
8 Swamp
What I'm Currently Playing:
Vintage:UW Mentor
Legacy:UG Infect
Modern:UX MUD
Standard: N/A
I was certainly playing it as a finisher in a control deck. So removal, combined with trading creatures aggressively if I already had the Wanderings in hand, kept the board states from getting too far out of hand. I also had a fair amount of exploit and related enablers, which helped finesse certain situations. E.g., getting to swing with your lone creature, then exploit it for value to leave you with an untapped creature, really only has to be done once to get a big leg up in a potential race.
I would think that Deadly Wanderings might be the best uncommon in the set if it boosted toughness as well.
I haven't played with it yet, but I expect it to do some support role.
I also have thing lingering thought that Pros would pass this away at the PT.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I've been beaten by a 3/3 flyer + that 1/3 enchantment that taps when it ETB, while holding a grip of multiple flatten and a [c]death wind[c]. It was annoying.
I think it would be insane with Qal Sisma Behemoth, but I think you would rather run real cards than 5 mana enchantments in the exploit deck. I guess it would work if you had tons of removal... but doesn't everything?
A) sung its praises, and/or
B) never played it.
But we're talking about a very small sample size. Has anyone here tried it and had it not pan out?
I would classify this as a build around me card, with pretty low requirements to build around. You want 12-ish creatures, and want to prioritize removal. Your creatures don't have to be very good, so I would just try to pick them up on the wheel or late in the pack. I would want to take this card about pick 3 or 4. I don't think it is a bomb uncommon, but I would like to draft this highly.
Yes, I had it played against me at the pre-release (on a durdly 4/5, which turned into a 6/6 lifelinker). It would have singlehandedly won him the game, except that he accidentally played another creature one turn so I won when it turned into a blank.
Humble Defector is no longer available, (oh, i thought it was in KTK); was that the only way...?Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul
"no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
If you want a convoluted hypothetical way, you could Shifting Loyalties an artifact creature to them in exchange for their non-creature artifact (which would, of course, be a terrible deal).