I'm assuming you never cut Avengers from your Blue deck. Still, I'd like something a little more reliable out of my 6-drop. Like evasion would be nice for example. Similar to Pearl Lake Ancient, Prowess on a big dude is often silly. (I get that it interacts with the ability, but I still think it's not a big deal.)
It's going to win you any sort of iron man match that goes on forever. Occasionally it's going to hulk up with a few spells and unexpectedly bounce a monster. Only a hawkeye'd opponent is going to see that coming. You can't overextend though since he doesn't have hexproof -- I'd love to have Feat of Resistance for example to give him a sort of shield. Assuming you can protect him though, eventually he's going to hammer your opponent.
Is removing potential blockers not a form of evasion? He's not going to be able to attack into a board of two or more 5 (or likely 6, if you built your deck correctly) power blockers, but that's not a board you often see. I don't see how you come back if it can attack without risk even once unless you put down an absolutely giant creature and they can't deal with it otherwise or buff the Avengers. I'm surprised that anyone is even vaguely entertaining the notion that he might not make a blue deck.
Its second ability only triggers on power less than its power, which means 3 power or less for the creature being bounced, so it will bounce a War Behemoth or Rotting Mastodon but not many other big creatures unless you do something in the main phase before combat to boost the avengers. You only need one 5-power creature to block him and trade. If you do something pre-combat-phase to boost his power then that might use up your mana or card in hand in which case your opponent can more safely double-block or triple-block. You can cast a combat trick to win combat, but that's true of most any creature.
I would rather not have to do extra work to make a 6-drop become impactful.
That said, he can be very impactful when things work out right which might be times without having to boost him pre-combat (although that doesn't seem all that frequent to me for a 6 mana 4/5 without evasion), so I would always play him in a blue deck unless blue is a splash. I'd give him a B rating at this point, better than most every common but not better than a lot of rares and uncommons, but I'm open to adjusting that upwards once I see how he plays.
Solid bomb that I'll gladly first pick. Yes, it can't swing if they have a huge guy waiting to block. Great! Now that huge guy isn't attacking. More likely, one of my other 22 cards can help out with the few things this guy can't deal with.
Its second ability only triggers on power less than its power, which means 3 power or less for the creature being bounced, so it will bounce a War Behemoth or Rotting Mastodon but not many other big creatures unless you do something in the main phase before combat to boost the avengers.
Technically, the way it's templated, it only checks power on resolution. So either side can buff after the trigger is declared, before it resolves. But the point does stand that you have to cast stuff before blockers. Not a lot tussles with this guy safely on its own, though, so I think bouncing smaller / high toughness creatures that might help double block will be enough. Plus there are a decent number of sorceries (like Hunt the Weak, Savage Punch, Bathe in Dragonfire) that you might want to cast before combat anyway.
Just so much tempo gain if you get to bounce even a 3 or 4 drop every turn. I think it's a great card.
I used Sage-Eye in a draft today. Went 2-1, got 2nd with Grixis Control. (Weird) The guy who got first showed me the power of Goblin Heelcutter
Round 1 Game 1. Playing against Abzan I'm already ahead, but opponent has an Abzan Ascendancy out. Bouncing the tokens created by Ascendancy was nice. It also kept Kin-Tree Warden OUT OF MY HOUSE.
Game 2. Board's close. Guy's built some advantage with a few outlasters. Bring Low one of them, swing and bounce the guy who gives first-strike. Now he's either blocking with the 5/4 battle priest or letting me through for 5 and hoping i can't just bounce it again next turn. He takes it. Next turn I kill the other blocker he drops and bounce the battle priest FTW.
Round 2 I never saw Sage Eye. This was the round I lost and holy crap was that dude's deck was fast. Temur MURDER AGGRO.
Round 3 Game 1. More Abzan stuff. He died to a Sandblast on his first swing. I had no instants for a response.
Game 3. He starts picking apart outlast stuff to the point that they're useless. I ride Sage-Eye to victory.
So yeah, I was a big fan of Sage-Eye Avengers. It wrecked Abzan and probably would've done the same to Mardu and Jeskai decks. His power is base 4, but Prowess helps out. Bouncing tokens is hilarious (GOBLINS). There were two or three plays were I used removal before combat on something to pump Sage Eye so he could bounce 4 power critters. HUGE swings. But he's slow. Opponents get to gameplan for him. Sage-Eye isn't spectacular. He's situational, and I can image times where he's "bounce a creature and die." There's probably 20 rares and mythics you'd rather have.
That said, I have an unhealthy love of Glacial Stalker, and Sage-Eye is a glacial stalker with Prowess.
I would have lost to this card at the prerelease if my opponent had not manifested after I topdecked it. It may not be a top rare, but it's a legit bomb/beatstick.
I would have lost to this card at the prerelease if my opponent had not manifested after I topdecked it. It may not be a top rare, but it's a legit bomb/beatstick.
I don't understand the situation you're describing here.
I would have lost to this card at the prerelease if my opponent had not manifested after I topdecked it. It may not be a top rare, but it's a legit bomb/beatstick.
I don't understand the situation you're describing here.
You know how if you your face down card is bounced and it isn't a creature then you automagically lose the game? So if you bounce manifests then you stand a good chance of screwing over your opponent since they can't control the top of their deck.
I would have lost to this card at the prerelease if my opponent had not manifested after I topdecked it. It may not be a top rare, but it's a legit bomb/beatstick.
I don't understand the situation you're describing here.
You know how if you your face down card is bounced and it isn't a creature then you automagically lose the game? So if you bounce manifests then you stand a good chance of screwing over your opponent since they can't control the top of their deck.
The use of the smiley gives me to understand that you're joking, but I'm just not clear on what World Peace is talking about. He says he almost lost to the card, implying that his opponent was the one who had it, but then says he (World Peace) topdecked it.
I would have lost to this card at the prerelease if my opponent had not manifested after I topdecked it. It may not be a top rare, but it's a legit bomb/beatstick.
I don't understand the situation you're describing here.
You know how if you your face down card is bounced and it isn't a creature then you automagically lose the game? So if you bounce manifests then you stand a good chance of screwing over your opponent since they can't control the top of their deck.
The use of the smiley gives me to understand that you're joking, but I'm just not clear on what World Peace is talking about. He says he almost lost to the card, implying that his opponent was the one who had it, but then says he (World Peace) topdecked it.
Maybe I'm just dense.
No, it's not you. I have no clue what he's talking about or how a manifest could possibly affect the game.
The use of the smiley gives me to understand that you're joking, but I'm just not clear on what World Peace is talking about. He says he almost lost to the card, implying that his opponent was the one who had it, but then says he (World Peace) topdecked it.
I think I might know what he's saying. He may be using "topdeck" to mean put a card on top of the deck, instead of the usual lingo which means to draw it off the top. So I believe what happened is he cast Whisk Away on his opponent's Avengers, then the opponent Manifested it -- and I think the info that's missing is that he was able to kill it? Like he had removal that could kill 2 toughness but not 5. So if his opponent had just waited, drew it, and hard cast it instead he would not have been able to overcome the Avengers.
Good card I supposed... Haven't got to play with it, and I've played with all the Khans. Think all of them are better than this. But it's better than Atarka and the whsjyewndifAZORIUSaiausjd dragon for sure.
I've gotten to play with this card a few times now. I'd give it a "B+" - not a complete bomb, because there are board states that don't care about it too much (e.g. the opponent has a Wooly Loxodon and you don't have a trick). When you can build your deck around it, however, it can just wreck people (especially the Abzan outlast deck, as mentioned). Also, this card is best friends with Goblin Heelcutter, as it makes it much tougher for your opponent to either race or stabilize, giving them very few options.
I would have lost to this card at the prerelease if my opponent had not manifested after I topdecked it. It may not be a top rare, but it's a legit bomb/beatstick.
I don't understand the situation you're describing here.
Sorry for the slow reply. If you still care, what happened was I topdecked his creature with Whisk Away, then during the second main phase he cast Soul Summons. I killed the now manifested creature with Cunning Strike. Weird chain of events.
Sorry for the slow reply. If you still care, what happened was I topdecked his creature with Whisk Away, then during the second main phase he cast Soul Summons. I killed the now manifested creature with Cunning Strike. Weird chain of events.
FYI -- "Topdecked" has a specific meaning in Magic lingo, namely drawing cards off the top of your deck after you've exhausted your hand. For example, I was lucky to topdeck Lava Axe when my opponent was at 5 life because he was going to kill me next turn. That's why no one understood what you were saying.
Plenty of red decks are fine with a 2/1 for 2. Sometimes you'll be able to abuse this a little in a Jeskai deck with refocus, but even without it's a reasonable but not super exciting card. Mostly a filler with some upside.
My favorite line of play at the prerelease was "Activate, hold priority, Collateral Damage". It's *only* a 3-for-2, but it felt so satisfying every time.
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Pikers are fine, and this one can be a clunky draw spell if the board is clogged. That ability is really dangerous though, I've lost as a direct result of using it too early trying to hit my land drops. There was some serious overhype surrounding this card, at least for limited purposes.
Sorry for the slow reply. If you still care, what happened was I topdecked his creature with Whisk Away, then during the second main phase he cast Soul Summons. I killed the now manifested creature with Cunning Strike. Weird chain of events.
FYI -- "Topdecked" has a specific meaning in Magic lingo, namely drawing cards off the top of your deck after you've exhausted your hand. For example, I was lucky to topdeck Lava Axe when my opponent was at 5 life because he was going to kill me next turn. That's why no one understood what you were saying.
I'm perfectly aware that topdeck is used to describe that situation in addition to psuedo removal like Whisk Away that puts the card on top of a player's library.
Personally, I've never heard of "topdeck" being used to mean the Time Ebb effect. I've only heard the definition Phyrre56 uses. But it may be different in your local community.
Humble Defector is a two-drop that trades with Morphs, so right off the bat it's playable. Similar power-level to Leaping Master I guess, maybe a little better. Not something I'd prioritize unless my curve was too high.
Pikers are fine, and this one can be a clunky draw spell if the board is clogged. That ability is really dangerous though, I've lost as a direct result of using it too early trying to hit my land drops. There was some serious overhype surrounding this card, at least for limited purposes.
Sorry for the slow reply. If you still care, what happened was I topdecked his creature with Whisk Away, then during the second main phase he cast Soul Summons. I killed the now manifested creature with Cunning Strike. Weird chain of events.
FYI -- "Topdecked" has a specific meaning in Magic lingo, namely drawing cards off the top of your deck after you've exhausted your hand. For example, I was lucky to topdeck Lava Axe when my opponent was at 5 life because he was going to kill me next turn. That's why no one understood what you were saying.
I'm perfectly aware that topdeck is used to describe that situation in addition to psuedo removal like Whisk Away that puts the card on top of a player's library.
That's not a use of the word and it's exceptionally confusing, particularly without much context. Those cards put a card on the top of your opponent's library. They don't topdeck a card. You can continue to use it that way, if you enjoy being confusing, but no one else is going to follow suit.
Anyway, 2/1 for 1s are underwhelming and it's unwise to associate any actual value with his ability. It's sort of like that 1B guy from RTR block (I think) that let you gamble life to potentially gain life. 99% of the time, you never used his ability, but there were certain times where you'd lose anyway if you don't use him and survive a turn if you win, giving him some moderate upside over a vanilla creature. The only difference is that that dude was a bear, so it was perfectly fine. This is a piker, which I hate anyway and certainly don't like in this format. I'd have one in my deck if I absolutely needed one more two drop creature, but I wouldn't be happy.
I'd definitely prefer Leaping Master. I don't actually think their power levels are particularly close. The ability to trade Leaping Master with fliers that are beating you down (and many of which have 1-2 toughness) and the ability to make him evasive for extra damage during a stall or when you have excess mana are plenty valuable.
Anyways, you play Humble Defector if you want a 2/1, and the ability is gravy. Another good use I found for it is if you have an extra point of damage lying around for a Pyrotechnics or Arc Lightning, instead of going to the face, give the Defector to your opponent first then kill it.
If you actively want a 2/1 in your red deck, you're probably the sort of deck that can use a flurry of extra cards to try to end the game right at about the time a 2/1 is becoming irrelevant on the board. So in theory he could be quite good. The trouble is that that sort of deck is terrible on Tarkir.
If this was in M12, he'd probably have been a first pick.
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It's going to win you any sort of iron man match that goes on forever. Occasionally it's going to hulk up with a few spells and unexpectedly bounce a monster. Only a hawkeye'd opponent is going to see that coming. You can't overextend though since he doesn't have hexproof -- I'd love to have Feat of Resistance for example to give him a sort of shield. Assuming you can protect him though, eventually he's going to hammer your opponent.
I would rather not have to do extra work to make a 6-drop become impactful.
That said, he can be very impactful when things work out right which might be times without having to boost him pre-combat (although that doesn't seem all that frequent to me for a 6 mana 4/5 without evasion), so I would always play him in a blue deck unless blue is a splash. I'd give him a B rating at this point, better than most every common but not better than a lot of rares and uncommons, but I'm open to adjusting that upwards once I see how he plays.
Technically, the way it's templated, it only checks power on resolution. So either side can buff after the trigger is declared, before it resolves. But the point does stand that you have to cast stuff before blockers. Not a lot tussles with this guy safely on its own, though, so I think bouncing smaller / high toughness creatures that might help double block will be enough. Plus there are a decent number of sorceries (like Hunt the Weak, Savage Punch, Bathe in Dragonfire) that you might want to cast before combat anyway.
Just so much tempo gain if you get to bounce even a 3 or 4 drop every turn. I think it's a great card.
Round 1 Game 1. Playing against Abzan I'm already ahead, but opponent has an Abzan Ascendancy out. Bouncing the tokens created by Ascendancy was nice. It also kept Kin-Tree Warden OUT OF MY HOUSE.
Game 2. Board's close. Guy's built some advantage with a few outlasters. Bring Low one of them, swing and bounce the guy who gives first-strike. Now he's either blocking with the 5/4 battle priest or letting me through for 5 and hoping i can't just bounce it again next turn. He takes it. Next turn I kill the other blocker he drops and bounce the battle priest FTW.
Round 2 I never saw Sage Eye. This was the round I lost and holy crap was that dude's deck was fast. Temur MURDER AGGRO.
Round 3 Game 1. More Abzan stuff. He died to a Sandblast on his first swing. I had no instants for a response.
Game 3. He starts picking apart outlast stuff to the point that they're useless. I ride Sage-Eye to victory.
So yeah, I was a big fan of Sage-Eye Avengers. It wrecked Abzan and probably would've done the same to Mardu and Jeskai decks. His power is base 4, but Prowess helps out. Bouncing tokens is hilarious (GOBLINS). There were two or three plays were I used removal before combat on something to pump Sage Eye so he could bounce 4 power critters. HUGE swings. But he's slow. Opponents get to gameplan for him. Sage-Eye isn't spectacular. He's situational, and I can image times where he's "bounce a creature and die." There's probably 20 rares and mythics you'd rather have.
That said, I have an unhealthy love of Glacial Stalker, and Sage-Eye is a glacial stalker with Prowess.
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I don't understand the situation you're describing here.
You know how if you your face down card is bounced and it isn't a creature then you automagically lose the game? So if you bounce manifests then you stand a good chance of screwing over your opponent since they can't control the top of their deck.
The use of the smiley gives me to understand that you're joking, but I'm just not clear on what World Peace is talking about. He says he almost lost to the card, implying that his opponent was the one who had it, but then says he (World Peace) topdecked it.
Maybe I'm just dense.
No, it's not you. I have no clue what he's talking about or how a manifest could possibly affect the game.
No, honestly I have no idea either.
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Sorry for the slow reply. If you still care, what happened was I topdecked his creature with Whisk Away, then during the second main phase he cast Soul Summons. I killed the now manifested creature with Cunning Strike. Weird chain of events.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH:
FYI -- "Topdecked" has a specific meaning in Magic lingo, namely drawing cards off the top of your deck after you've exhausted your hand. For example, I was lucky to topdeck Lava Axe when my opponent was at 5 life because he was going to kill me next turn. That's why no one understood what you were saying.
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I'm perfectly aware that topdeck is used to describe that situation in addition to psuedo removal like Whisk Away that puts the card on top of a player's library.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH:
Humble Defector is a two-drop that trades with Morphs, so right off the bat it's playable. Similar power-level to Leaping Master I guess, maybe a little better. Not something I'd prioritize unless my curve was too high.
That's not a use of the word and it's exceptionally confusing, particularly without much context. Those cards put a card on the top of your opponent's library. They don't topdeck a card. You can continue to use it that way, if you enjoy being confusing, but no one else is going to follow suit.
Anyway, 2/1 for 1s are underwhelming and it's unwise to associate any actual value with his ability. It's sort of like that 1B guy from RTR block (I think) that let you gamble life to potentially gain life. 99% of the time, you never used his ability, but there were certain times where you'd lose anyway if you don't use him and survive a turn if you win, giving him some moderate upside over a vanilla creature. The only difference is that that dude was a bear, so it was perfectly fine. This is a piker, which I hate anyway and certainly don't like in this format. I'd have one in my deck if I absolutely needed one more two drop creature, but I wouldn't be happy.
I'd definitely prefer Leaping Master. I don't actually think their power levels are particularly close. The ability to trade Leaping Master with fliers that are beating you down (and many of which have 1-2 toughness) and the ability to make him evasive for extra damage during a stall or when you have excess mana are plenty valuable.
Anyways, you play Humble Defector if you want a 2/1, and the ability is gravy. Another good use I found for it is if you have an extra point of damage lying around for a Pyrotechnics or Arc Lightning, instead of going to the face, give the Defector to your opponent first then kill it.
If this was in M12, he'd probably have been a first pick.