MTG Salvation

Love me a deck thats running 3 of these, as thats 3 less cards in my opponents deck that i have to worry about. They are sometimes good, oftentimes just a speedbump blocker. I would run them but definitely not a really high pick, thus i dont really ever get more then 1, not too worried about that, good in the "i got passed expensive green bombs" deck, but still often would rather something that does something.

Reasons to play Whisperer of the Wilds: I often find myself in this format with more cards / abilities that I want to play than time I can play them in. Therefore, mana ramping, even in the mid to late game, is relevant.

Reasons to not play Whisperer of the Wilds: My opponents also have plenty of good things to spend their mana on, and by playing an 0/2, I'm falling behind considerably in the race.

So yea I think the card is just OK. It has pros and cons. It's not like Golden Hind which was universally loved because it can either ramp you if that's what you need, or trade off with some X/2 if that's what you need, or beat down if that's what you need. Whisperer only had one mode and sometimes you won't be in a position to take much advantage of it.

Yeah, I have been terribly disappointed with Whisperer the very few times its ended up in my deck. Its' also a card I never cringe over when my opponent casts it. I basically always find myself doing a little fist pump when they tap 1G and it turns out they didn't cast a card that will be attacking me.


I basically never want this card in my deck.

I like Whisperer of the Wilds but in my view while I think it's one of the top two green commons it's not one of the top commons in the set, and I would probably rather draft Hunt the Weak. Being able to flip your morph (or threaten to flip it) on turn 4 or just casting something a bit bigger each turn for a few turns can be a big game if the game works out that way. This can be great when mana screwed but drawing this late is usually very bad, and unlike a banner which fixes colors the whisperer can't be cycled. If a deck does not have many high casting cost spells then this goes down in value, and in a deck without a good amount of green (to be able to reliably play this on turn 2) this is not good in my view.

I'm not a fan. IMO you can do just fine without any rsmp in this format.

Just played a sealed and went Frost Walker into Whisperer of the Wilds into Sagu Mauler. I think that that's nearly as good as it gets for Whisperer. I also had a Sandsteppe Mastodon in the deck which I never actually got out, but Whisperer could have helped there too. Basically, Whisperer seems quite a bit better in sealed than draft to me as there are probably more things to ramp into that are just too slow for most drafts.

Quote from Pulse_of_Shift »

Basically, Whisperer seems quite a bit better in sealed than draft to me as there are probably more things to ramp into that are just too slow for most drafts.

I think it's also better in Sealed, because Sealed decks are less capable of punishing you for the virtual card disadvantage of investing in mana ramp. Especially as Limited has become more about combat in recent sets, you need to generate a lot of value to make up for playing an 0/2 -- which for combat purposes might as well be an artifact.

I like the card, but only if 1.) I'll regularly have Ferocious and 2.) I have a lot of expensive stuff. As I generally do not play green decks with a lot of expensive stuff, I rarely have this card in any of my decks.

Sorry for the delay, folks. If we don't get a new card up today, we'll be back on schedule tomorrow.

I got to play with Flamewake Phoenix recently -- I had not seen it in play before that. It's good, but as rare Phoenixes go, it's probably not as good as you think based on the name and rarity. Evasion in Red is great, and the "must attack" clause is a lot less of a drawback when it is effectively immortal in many games. Keep in mind that the way the trigger works, if you bring it back into play, it has to attack. There's no opportunity to bring it back as a blocker. It fails the quadrant test for "when you're behind."

There are plenty of uncommons in FRF that I would take over it, because it's not bomby. It's just good. It's like a Jeskai Windscout that isn't quite as disappointing when your opponent produces a creature that can block small fliers. If your deck wouldn't normally want a Red Windscout, it might not really want a Flamewake Phoenix either. Red Control decks are rare though, so most Red decks will want this.

I agree with Phyrre56.

Also, the double red can be a significant issue especially on turn 3 where this would work best to get in as much damage as you could. And ferocious is not enabled easily in many red decks so there is a chance you could not bring this back.

Flamewake Phoenix is a good card but not one I would prioritize drafting over most good uncommons.

Compare it with Marang River Prowler which has much better evasion and has only one color mana symbol in its same converted mana casting cost, though for the prowler you need to be in one of two other specific colors to enable buyback, which at the start of a draft is more restrictive than just requiring ferocious. In a draft p1p1 I would probably rather have the phoenix than the prowler, but I am not sure of that and I would not be glad to have either p1p1.

Agreed with everyone else. It's fine. It's not as good as it would be in other formats, since curving out into this thing is more difficult.

The thing is, the best red decks in this format are the sort of decks that both really value an immortal flying haste creature and are the sort of decks that can enable the ability. This card may not be for every deck, but it absolutely is for one of the best archetypes in the format, which is UR tempo. I don't think there are a lot of packs where this wouldn't be the correct first pick.

Quote from Puddle Jumper »

I don't think there are a lot of packs where this wouldn't be the correct first pick.

I disagree. Plenty of more powerful uncommons: Elite Scaleguard, Pyrotechnics, Mistfire Adept, Temur Sabertooth (these 4 for sure), and I'd have to think a while on Lightform or Valorous Stance just because White is an overall more powerful color. These cards are all much more versatile and don't require a specific strategy to be good. You don't know at P1.1 that UR is going to be available.

I feel like there's too much stuff at common and uncommon that stonewalls this guy or straight up eats him, and the ability to bring him back doesn't actually make up a whole lot for that. You have to build around it to a certain extent to get the full payoff and even then it's not always reliable. Haven't played with him personally but I have played against him and found him to be not that bothersome.

Even if you can reliably recur the Phoenix, it's still no better than approximately a 2/10 Flying, Haste that can't block. Sure it won't die forever, but it will keep ramming itself uselessly into whatever can block it.

Double red is a huge drawback for me. There are so few good red commons in both sets that having red as your main color is a significant risk. This could have easily been an uncommon.

Quote from Phyrre56 »

Quote from Puddle Jumper »

I don't think there are a lot of packs where this wouldn't be the correct first pick.

I disagree. Plenty of more powerful uncommons: Elite Scaleguard, Pyrotechnics, Mistfire Adept, Temur Sabertooth (these 4 for sure), and I'd have to think a while on Lightform or Valorous Stance just because White is an overall more powerful color. These cards are all much more versatile and don't require a specific strategy to be good. You don't know at P1.1 that UR is going to be available.

I've cooled a lot on white since FRF came out, honestly. I used to think it was the best color, and it's still good, but not good enough that I want to fight over it nearly as much as I used to. Red is both underdrafted and capable of stringing together some of the most obscene plays in the format often enough that if I'm given an excuse to be red I'll generally take it pretty happily. It might be forcing a bit, but it works for me pretty well.

The card is not the sort of card I'm happy to find in a sealed, but P1p1 in draft, I'll take it and try fairly hard to make it work.

Yeah, a nice red deck with some removal allows this card to do some serious work, i have been run over by this card a couple of times. Great in a deck that can clear the board.

I'm just not sure why are there're so many phoenixes in Tarkir. Dragon like chicken?

That aside, not a fan of this in limited. Good role player in the decks that want it.

Fierce Invocation is a card I would rather not play, because a 4/4 for 5 is not good and the odds of manifesting a creature card which is worth flipping is too low to justify the mana cost and risk of the probability that the card is not worth flipping. I have played this when low on playables or if I do not have too many other 5+ drops.

As stated above, Fierce Invocation is a card I pick up late and prefer not to play because it's slow and not particularly efficient, but if I come up a card short and it has to go in, I'm not embarrassed. It's like the definition of bad filler.

I have yet to need to run it. Seems bad, but most of the people I know who have tried it seem to find it works okay. I guess in an 18-land format this is inherently better than it would be otherwise? There's a weird sort of efficiency to this that your typical morph doesn't have, and maybe that's worth it sometimes?