More like Leaping Master, Valley Dasher, War-Name Aspirant, Jeskai Elder, but yeah I guess Wetland Sambar if you really need one more two-drop.
my point was there are no blue aggro cards. There are some blue tempo cards like force away and crippling chill, but if I'm trying to rain down the 1-2 drops blue is not the colour I want to be in...
The 2/1 prowess flier is an excellent blue aggro card, even at 3 mana. Scaldkin is reasonable too. Blue aggro decks need fliers and cards like crippling chill and singing bell strike to buy time.
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Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
I can't explain why (it's still early in the format), but my highest win rate in 8-4's has been with Jeskai. My guess it's because it's underdrafted, even though Abzan and maybe Mardu are stronger. Agree with the consensus that Temur is weak. I've also become wary of picking tri-color gold cards first pick, unless they're of the quality of a Butcher of the Horde or something. I never first-pick charms, and I almost never first pick Ascendancy's except for Jeskai Ascendancy, which I think is just amazing in an underdrafted wedge.
My best decks are all RW based aggressive decks with light blue or black splashes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some facts of magic:
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
Temur has been my deck of choice and won all but one draft so far. The loss was a loose hand versus ABzan drafting getting the best draws his deck could offer.
Jeskai...I avoid the deck.
W/B is the best two colors, with putting Green or Red as the third color. Temur next, then Sultai and Jeskai. Jeskai is a glass cannon deck that cracks too easily.
The thing is none of the decks are bad and I have to say this is my second favorite draft format. Only Innistrad was better.
This set was really fun to draft at first, but after ~20 drafts it's gotten fairly boring. It's probably because I always seem to be Jeskai (it seems to be very underdrafted online) so my decks are all the same. I do like that the format is not too bomb-oriented and morphs are very skill-testing.
The biggest hole in the format is the complete lack of land destruction. I mean, sure at common it would not be fun since they are trying to encourage multi colours, but I feel the set could really use an avalanche riders to punish Timmy with his 5CC control deck.
That's an interesting point (land destruction). I hadn't thought about that. I doubt it, but maybe there'll be a green or red creature in the second set that destroys a non-basic.
I haven't run up against a well-oiled five-color deck yet, but I've only played in a few drafts. I had a lot of success last night going wide with RW and Trumpet Blast backed up with Act of Treason. Curving Hordeling Outburst into Hordeling Outburst possibly backed up by Ponyback Bridgade just makes so many dudes that it's hard for most decks to defend against a team pump even if the ones in this format aren't great.
That's an interesting point (land destruction). I hadn't thought about that. I doubt it, but maybe there'll be a green or red creature in the second set that destroys a non-basic.
I haven't run up against a well-oiled five-color deck yet, but I've only played in a few drafts. I had a lot of success last night going wide with RW and Trumpet Blast backed up with Act of Treason. Curving Hordeling Outburst into Hordeling Outburst possibly backed up by Ponyback Bridgade just makes so many dudes that it's hard for most decks to defend against a team pump even if the ones in this format aren't great.
Interesting, I lost against that deck last night in a 4-3-2-2. What time did you play?
Khans is treating me pretty well. I've been 3-0ing a lot more than in Theros block. I've had so much success with Abzan-Sultai, and so little success with Mardu-Jeskai-Temur, I've started soft-forcing BWG. I put black as the best color, followed by white and then green, with red and blue both distant. Red's common creatures are lackluster to unplayable, and its removal is weak - either expensive, sorcery speed, or both. And damage-based removal isn't the best in a format with so many big butts. And I'm not sure why, but I have an aversion to blue in this format to the point where I don't think it's been a main color in any deck I've drafted. The Jeskai plan seems so easy to disrupt.
If the draft goes poorly, I'm also not adverse to ditching a color and going two color, as long as one of those colors is black and the other one is white or green.
It's funny, I've heard a lot more rumblings of "I never play a certain archetype" in this format than usual, but they've all been different; I feel like I've heard every deck in the format called unplayable at some point, including the entirety of 3 color. It's definitely a format that lets you draft to your strength, and combined with all the mana fixing reminds me of cube in some ways. My impressions of some archetypes:
BW Warriors- Good, reliable, and flexible. I like being here early as it lets you adapt to Mardu and Abzan rares while giving you a solid base if you don't find any.
UG Morphs- Similar situation as the Warriors deck, but you generally don't want to stay 2 colors here. It's also the best base for a 5 color deck.
Abzan- Not the unbeatable control juggernaut that was advertised, but still powerful. Rather than making your team into lord-boosted monstrosities, Abzan is better at curving out, making trades, and riding a single outlast guy to victory when the board finally stalls. Relies on consistency, so don't force yourself into three color.
Jeskai- Needs focus to be good. Efreet Weaponmaster is one of the best cards in the set, but don't overload on morphs here. Arguably more aggressive than Mardu.
Sultai- All about value, and the true control deck of the format. You want massive butts and morphs to grind ground combat to a halt, removal spells for more problematic threats, and cheap curve filler to trade off and load up the graveyard. Treasure Cruise is essential to win the long game; play two if you can. Be aware that self-mill is a threat and you do need to include finishers.
TheTennesseeFireman: I agree, it seems that there are a lot of strong opinions about what works best, and those strong opinions are very different from each other.
At the Pro Tour this past weekend Stanislov Cifka stated in an interview segment that for KTK limited blue is the best color by far and black is the worst, so he values Mystic of the Hidden Way as not only the best common but he would take that P1P1 over Siege Rhino!
That is something I enjoy about KTK, so much variety in what good players think works best.
KTK draft does not seem very bomb-dependent to me, not compared to other recent sets.
The biggest hole in the format is the complete lack of land destruction. I mean, sure at common it would not be fun since they are trying to encourage multi colours, but I feel the set could really use an avalanche riders to punish Timmy with his 5CC control deck.
What you seem to enjoy, others might not. I think not having LD in the set is a plus and being able to play 5 color decks is what keeps the set fun to draft.
Having LD would be antithesis to a multicolor set. I would expect at least one in the entirety of the block. Just not this. The focus is on people casting their multicolor spells, not denying them.
I think all clans are playble, although as many have pointed out Jeskai needs quite a bit of focus and discipline.
This complaint about no LD in KTK seems....well, there hasn't been playable LD in limited since forever anyways...
I was mentioning playable land destruction at uncommon or rare, not horrible cards like maw of the mire. To me it is the same as Mirrodin block running naturalize and engineered plague in a tribal set; it makes for more interesting decisions if you know that you can get randomly punished for going after 5c good stuff all the time. I just like checks and balances in place.
The biggest hole in the format is the complete lack of land destruction. I mean, sure at common it would not be fun since they are trying to encourage multi colours, but I feel the set could really use an avalanche riders to punish Timmy with his 5CC control deck.
What you seem to enjoy, others might not. I think not having LD in the set is a plus and being able to play 5 color decks is what keeps the set fun to draft.
Also I don't know why you want to "punish" anyone for playing 5 colors. It's a strategy with strengths and weaknesses, why should it be "punished"? And especially in a multicolor set.
In my KTK drafts I end up in 4 colors probably 40% of the time and 5 colors another 40% of the time. I've been doing just fine. I do try to always make one or two colors splashes just for 5 cc morphs, which are nice if I hit but still functional as 2/2s that don't unmorph.
On the other hand, in some ways the 5-color decks are a check against people leaving the fixing lands in the pool way too long. As people start to realize that the 5-color players are snapping up all the lands pretty early, pick orders will start to adjust. I think the 5-color deck will be harder to build in a few weeks than it is now. Not impossible, and certainly not nerfed, just harder to build.
I think one shouldn't be actively looking for 5C. It's an archetype that comes to you. For example, 2-3 straight trilands may be an excellent start to going 5C. I wouldn't be high picking refuges for sure.
At this point, it just seems like 4c/5c goodstuff is the best deck. You can get high-quality 3-color cards very late. I've not done many drafts but I've seen many strong 2 and 3-color cards go very late like 11-13th pick, stuff like Sultai Soothsayer, Warden of the Eye, the 3-color common morphs.
You are a massive advantage any time you face a 2c/3c deck and they don't curve out due to your superior card quality. And this happens a lot because there is a lack of good 2-drops in the set.
Not to mention you basically start at 23-26 life thanks to your lands, and there are a ton of decent defensive creatures at common like Parapet, the 0/5 looter, Disowned Ancestor, Sagu Archer etc.
I have gone UXx in the last 5 drafts and only lost 2 rounds. UGr tempo day 2 of a GP lost round 1 to Abzan with an answer to everything I did and then beat WRb tokens and 5 color. UBg control day 2 of a GP beat WB warriors, 5 color, and a deck I can't remember. UGr tempo at my lgs went undefeated against Mardu, 4 color without blue, and Abzan. UWg tempo went undefeated against Temur, Abzan, and some other deck. My last draft was UGr tempo again, losing 1 round to mana flood game 1 and a mull to 5 that mana flooded in game 2.
I agree that Mystic of the Hidden Way is the best common in the set and I'll take as many Jeskai Windscouts as I can get. My decks are typically 13-14 creatures, 4-6 combat tricks, and the rest removal/bounce/Crippling Chill. The red splash is almost always 2 Snowhorn Riders and 1 removal spell.
I had a URg deck similar to that last night that I really liked, but I went 1-2. I ran into some stuff matchups and I think I made some errors in card selection and deck construction.
I think abzan has the best cards. However, lots of people will be fighting you for them, so there's that. Playing all five colors is a fun and effctive strat. You pick up dual lands/trilands, removal and gold cards in that order of priority and then use the common walls to stall (parapet, monastery flock). Morph is your fairy godmother when you don't have all of your fixing. Makes it so you develop your board instead of waiting on banners or doing nothing. Plus, you can cram your deck full of 5-6 drops at no cost to your curve.
I've had the most luck with evasive decks. I know that sounds like a truism, but the decks that have had multiple flyers or unblockables really has an advantage in a format that is removal-light and prone to board stalls. It also makes the fat-butt creatures like Salt Road Patrol and Dragon's Eye Savants particularly useful because they are almost removal spells in and of themselves. They totally blank any number of possible threats while your evasive men do the heavy lifting. Sultai decks with Jeskai Wind Scout, Jeskai decks with the same, and Abzan decks running Kirins and Bird Scouts tend to do the best for me.
I find it very difficult to maintain an aggressive position for too long in decks outside of Jeskai. There are just too many ways for your opponent to create a durdling board state that you really have to have powerful enablers like the Chiefs in BW and the like to really maintain the pressure. I've also learned that it's not a bad idea to be greedy with the gold cards. If you're already in Abzan, and happen to open or get passed a Villainous Wealth, you should almost always splash for it. This gets easier if you've elected to take dual/tri lands out of mediocre packs earlier in the draft, to widen your options for potential splashes. You don't need to be in 5-color Kenji-style decks to take advantage of the fact that the format is kind of slow and rewards the use of high-power gold cards.
And I don't think I agree with Mystic of the Hidden Way being the best common. I think that honor falls to Feat of Resistance. That stupid thing is almost always a HUGE blowout.
The 2/1 prowess flier is an excellent blue aggro card, even at 3 mana. Scaldkin is reasonable too. Blue aggro decks need fliers and cards like crippling chill and singing bell strike to buy time.
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
-Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
-The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
-A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.
More facts of magic
Jeskai...I avoid the deck.
W/B is the best two colors, with putting Green or Red as the third color. Temur next, then Sultai and Jeskai. Jeskai is a glass cannon deck that cracks too easily.
The thing is none of the decks are bad and I have to say this is my second favorite draft format. Only Innistrad was better.
I haven't run up against a well-oiled five-color deck yet, but I've only played in a few drafts. I had a lot of success last night going wide with RW and Trumpet Blast backed up with Act of Treason. Curving Hordeling Outburst into Hordeling Outburst possibly backed up by Ponyback Bridgade just makes so many dudes that it's hard for most decks to defend against a team pump even if the ones in this format aren't great.
Interesting, I lost against that deck last night in a 4-3-2-2. What time did you play?
If the draft goes poorly, I'm also not adverse to ditching a color and going two color, as long as one of those colors is black and the other one is white or green.
BW Warriors- Good, reliable, and flexible. I like being here early as it lets you adapt to Mardu and Abzan rares while giving you a solid base if you don't find any.
UG Morphs- Similar situation as the Warriors deck, but you generally don't want to stay 2 colors here. It's also the best base for a 5 color deck.
Abzan- Not the unbeatable control juggernaut that was advertised, but still powerful. Rather than making your team into lord-boosted monstrosities, Abzan is better at curving out, making trades, and riding a single outlast guy to victory when the board finally stalls. Relies on consistency, so don't force yourself into three color.
Jeskai- Needs focus to be good. Efreet Weaponmaster is one of the best cards in the set, but don't overload on morphs here. Arguably more aggressive than Mardu.
Sultai- All about value, and the true control deck of the format. You want massive butts and morphs to grind ground combat to a halt, removal spells for more problematic threats, and cheap curve filler to trade off and load up the graveyard. Treasure Cruise is essential to win the long game; play two if you can. Be aware that self-mill is a threat and you do need to include finishers.
Cubetutor Link
At the Pro Tour this past weekend Stanislov Cifka stated in an interview segment that for KTK limited blue is the best color by far and black is the worst, so he values Mystic of the Hidden Way as not only the best common but he would take that P1P1 over Siege Rhino!
That is something I enjoy about KTK, so much variety in what good players think works best.
KTK draft does not seem very bomb-dependent to me, not compared to other recent sets.
What you seem to enjoy, others might not. I think not having LD in the set is a plus and being able to play 5 color decks is what keeps the set fun to draft.
I think all clans are playble, although as many have pointed out Jeskai needs quite a bit of focus and discipline.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
How flavorful!
I was mentioning playable land destruction at uncommon or rare, not horrible cards like maw of the mire. To me it is the same as Mirrodin block running naturalize and engineered plague in a tribal set; it makes for more interesting decisions if you know that you can get randomly punished for going after 5c good stuff all the time. I just like checks and balances in place.
Also I don't know why you want to "punish" anyone for playing 5 colors. It's a strategy with strengths and weaknesses, why should it be "punished"? And especially in a multicolor set.
In my KTK drafts I end up in 4 colors probably 40% of the time and 5 colors another 40% of the time. I've been doing just fine. I do try to always make one or two colors splashes just for 5 cc morphs, which are nice if I hit but still functional as 2/2s that don't unmorph.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
You are a massive advantage any time you face a 2c/3c deck and they don't curve out due to your superior card quality. And this happens a lot because there is a lack of good 2-drops in the set.
Not to mention you basically start at 23-26 life thanks to your lands, and there are a ton of decent defensive creatures at common like Parapet, the 0/5 looter, Disowned Ancestor, Sagu Archer etc.
I agree that Mystic of the Hidden Way is the best common in the set and I'll take as many Jeskai Windscouts as I can get. My decks are typically 13-14 creatures, 4-6 combat tricks, and the rest removal/bounce/Crippling Chill. The red splash is almost always 2 Snowhorn Riders and 1 removal spell.
I find it very difficult to maintain an aggressive position for too long in decks outside of Jeskai. There are just too many ways for your opponent to create a durdling board state that you really have to have powerful enablers like the Chiefs in BW and the like to really maintain the pressure. I've also learned that it's not a bad idea to be greedy with the gold cards. If you're already in Abzan, and happen to open or get passed a Villainous Wealth, you should almost always splash for it. This gets easier if you've elected to take dual/tri lands out of mediocre packs earlier in the draft, to widen your options for potential splashes. You don't need to be in 5-color Kenji-style decks to take advantage of the fact that the format is kind of slow and rewards the use of high-power gold cards.
And I don't think I agree with Mystic of the Hidden Way being the best common. I think that honor falls to Feat of Resistance. That stupid thing is almost always a HUGE blowout.