Now initially I dismissed this card as soon as I read it, being that it offers no inherent card advantage or develops the board state. However I have been thinking about the card more. It actually reads as a better version of 1U : Scry 5. That amount of card quality is quite insane. In addition, it can also function as a permanent seething song for delve spells, going turn two Taigam's Scheming into a 1 mana Hooting Mandrils/Sultai Scavenger + a 2 drop could be a very powerful tempo play.
What does everyone else think? Waste of a deck slot or somewhat passable?
I seem to recall a lengthy discussion of this card in the Early Discussion Thread. The conclusion seemed to be that Scheming is better than "Draw a card" (for the increase in card quality) but not as good as "Draw 2 cards." That would seem to put it around the power level of Divination.
The problem with using it as Delve fuel is that it ruins your Scry 5. If you dump a bunch of cards in the graveyard, you didn't get much benefit from reordering them. (Only when you get really lucky and the top of your deck was a bunch of garbage.) If you use it early in the game, that's exactly when you want to stack a mix of creatures and lands anyway to have a smooth draw.
So you can use it for card quality or turbo-Delve but not really both unless the stars align. If you do invest it all in a Delve, then your opponent kills that creature...that's awkward, now you essentially 2-for-1'd yourself.
Finally, it's a terrible topdeck since it doesn't draw even 1 card the turn you play it. I'd be much more interested if it was more like Scry 4, ditch the cards you don't want, then draw a card. As it is though...I think I'm going to pass on it. Card quality is so high in this block, I don't think you can afford to play a do-nothing spell even if it does set you up for decent future turns.
In a draft, I would take the card speculatively. It gets better with a couple of them and several Delve spells, because then you aren't necessarily putting all your eggs in one basket. They put you behind a card up until the point where you would have drawn a card you can't use effectively (as happens during mana flood/screw). Considering the sheer quantity of games that get lost to mana issues, I'm not afraid to call this card very good, for no other reason than because it lets you dodge them almost completely. The Delve enabling is a pretty sweet bonus on top of that.
I think by the end of the format this will considered one of the best cards in the set.
In his article on Channel Fireball within the past couple of days PV pointed out that decking yourself with too many of these delve enablers is a real (albeit not frequent) possibility and also that delve cards work against each other since they eat the same "food." So building a deck around this is iffy at best (my take-away from his article). I think from that standpoint if you can manage to get approximately the right balance between delve and delve enablers then you should be okay if the cards are good enough to justify it.
Specifically for this card, I think it's poor overall unless you have a few good delve spells and are low on better enablers. Card advantage is often a big aspect of non-aggro decks but this card is card disadvantage not to mention spending two mana, and in my view that's generally not worth this effect.
This card is pretty much like Index with the option to pitch into the graveyard. Great for enabling a delve spell.... This card could prove useful in certain strategies. I particularly like that you don't have to reveal the cards unlike a lot of other graveyard filling spells.
The thing that makes this card much better than Index is that you aren't stuck with the bad cards in the top 5 since you can just pitch them to the graveyard. Also in limited with all the creatures and combat tricks you play 3-4 delve cards in your deck go a long way. Become Immense did wonders as a +6/+6 for G multiple times lategame.
Something that nobody else has pointed out is that this is one of the cheapest common non-creature spells that actually does something. That's pretty important for decks that are trying to get a lot of Prowess Triggers. It also lets you set up the next couple turns worth of non-creature spells.
Ultimately, you have to consider if running it will actually help your deck gain a card's worth of value. Since it doesn't replace itself, is it worth 2 mana and a card to fix mana, trigger some prowess dudes, and power out an early Hooting Mandrills or Treaure Cruise.
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Current Decks
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
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I picked sultai for prerelease and it was one of the best cards in my deck. It isn't good if you are getting thrashed but the format seems slow and what card IS good in that situation other then bombs.
It's scry 5 with upside. Great card.
Edit: I also disagree with the statement it doesn't replace itself. It does.... Slowly.
When I dump 3 lands I just drew 3 cards, albeit over the next 5 turns
Scheming is a lovely little card, you have not lived until you've cast 7 zombies on turn 6 thanks mostly to 2 of these. I think it's playable in non-Delve decks too, there is not a lot you can do on turn 2 in this format.
Calavera: I can think of a few things that you can do on turn 2. Ainok Bond-Kin is a big one in White decks. Jeskai Elder I'm hearing quite a bit about, though that is Uncommon. The 2/2 Deathtoucher in Green is pretty solid as well.
I must say, this was one of my all stars during prerelease (in Temur). It smoothed out land drops early game. It let me dig for answers or line up 2+ turns of fuel mid/late game. In most formats, investing the tempo now for card quality later would be a losing proposition. But in sealed KTK? Having the right lands at the right time and not flooding out are way more valuable than usual, while there are fewer decks that will punish you for the temporary tempo loss.
admittedly i've only played on cockatrice (2 drafts and 1 sealed) and Sultai every time, so that colours my perceptions.
but i'm finding that mana issues are BIG in this format. you really, really want to get the right colours of mana, but (more minor-ly) you don't want to be too flooded.
it seems more critical than ever before to make sure you get the right colours of lands, and enough of them, early on.
i've found cards like this and Scout the Borders to be super important for this reason, moreso than i had anticipated.
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Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul "no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Calavera: I can think of a few things that you can do on turn 2. Ainok Bond-Kin is a big one in White decks. Jeskai Elder I'm hearing quite a bit about, though that is Uncommon. The 2/2 Deathtoucher in Green is pretty solid as well.
The Deathtoucher is an uncommon too. I didn't say there is nothing to do on turn 2, just that there is a big chance you'll pass it after playing your second land.
I initially dismissed this card as unplayable, but after playing KTK for awhile I've warmed up to it. I ran it for the first time last night because I was overloaded on delve cards, and Become Immense had been doing nothing. The first time I played it I was able to dump a pair of black cards into the yard (game lasted another 10ish turns and I never got a black source) and reorder the other 3 to hit my land drops. Would have saved me in a later game where I was stuck on two lands until turn 6 or so.
It's a fairly late pick up, but definitely belongs in the playable range. I would encourage people to give this card a chance, it's a C- at worst.
I don't think this is all that playable outside the dedicated Sultai delve deck. As far as delve enablers go, I'd rate them like this:
Scout the Borders
Bitter End
Rakshasa's Secret/Taigam's Scheming
depending on how many actual Delve cards you were able to pick up. Most times I'd rate Secret higher than Scheming, but if you're light on the other enablers I could imagine rating Scheming over Secret. Ideally, I wouldn't want more than 1 copy of each (or any copies of Scheming) in my draft deck.
I would place Mind Rot at about a C+ (good filler) in limited, stapling the self mill pushes toward B- or B. It will also just win you the game sometimes by blowing away an opponent's delicate hand (I lost an M15 event to a well placed Rot). Revelation is fantastic hand fixing, and you get most of your mana back, but its high initial investment can be fatal against faster opponents; gets hit by Disdainful Stroke. I put scheming above scout primarily because it costs 2 instead of 3; you will (almost) always have a turn 3 play and it's by far the most crowded point on the curve. There's a thread dedicated to how bad 2 land hands are in this format (and how unlikely mulling to 6 is to help), but 2 lands and a scheming is entirely keepable. My first impression of Scout was borderline unplayable and that's where I still have it; I probably would have taken it over scheming prior to last week, but being behind scheming and random morph creatures pretty much knocks it off my draft chart.
My payout threshold for including straight card disadvantage in my deck is pretty high. I might play something like Frantic Search or Faithless Looting in Cube, but I'm never playing Taigam's Scheming. How good is a turn 3 Scavenger or Mandrills, really? It's fine, but those are outclassed pretty significantly by a ton of stuff in the format.
My payout threshold for including straight card disadvantage in my deck is pretty high. I might play something like Frantic Search or Faithless Looting in Cube, but I'm never playing Taigam's Scheming. How good is a turn 3 Scavenger or Mandrills, really? It's fine, but those are outclassed pretty significantly by a ton of stuff in the format.
It really is more comparable to a scry than a loot. To use the story from earlier, if I had cast looting or search and drawn those two black cards I would have a serious dilemma because if my top card had been a swamp they would be really good, but if the swamp was a long way off I would have to pitch something playable in order to keep them, which I might have done. Scheming also works when your hand is empty.
If you were stuck with Scout and Scheming would you choose the Scout?
If you were stuck with Scout and Scheming would you choose the Scout?
Yup, every time. Scout gets you the best card in the top 5 quicker. It does a similar job of filling the graveyard if that's important to you. Scheming sets up future draws but at the expense of having to wait a turn to get the first one. I don't put a lot of value on setting up my draws 2+ turns from present. Who knows how my opponent is going to change the equation before I get there.
It's true that Scheming is effectively Scry 5. But is Scry 5 worth a card, even with the benefit of the graveyard interaction you get with Scheming? Foresee had Scry 4 but it also drew 2 cards. I don't believe Scry 5 has ever been printed, but based on precedence, it does not seem worth a card.
I'll only play Scheming if I had a p1p1 Necropolis Fiend. Heck, I'm not even actively looking for it; one or two should table. I believe that's the fate for it in triple KtK. When Fate comes, we'll see if there're more Delve bombs.
I find that Rakshasa's Secret is actually playable, considering that most archetypes tend to be more midrangy and grindy.
I want to come back two months later and say that although I would still play he card, the format turned out faster then I thought it would. I now put scheming as playable but I would never want to cast it on turns 2,3, or 5 in this format. That just doesn't leave a ton of room for it.
I don't really know to phrase this other than, the sooner you stop considering Taigam's Scheming a playable card, the sooner you'll get better at Draft. It's really quite bad for numerous reasons listed above. Calling it playable is saying that you consider all cards playable and don't particularly care about strategy.
Every card does something. Every card works in at least one scenario. Despite this, we have to identify the cards that are well below average and treat them like trash. Anything less is going to impede progress.
There might be 1 out of 100 draft decks that want Taigon's Scheming. That corner case is barely worth talking about. The card is a solid D- and should very rarely if ever see play.
Another way to put it is that yes, Taigam's Scheming does stuff, and sometimes the stuff it does sounds good.
The question isn't whether Taigam's Scheming does stuff, it's whether Taigam's Scheming does better stuff than X other cards that are competing to be in your deck. (At least 21, but if you drafted well, that pool of potential playables could be more like 25 or 30.) Scheming is far enough down the totem pole that the answer to that question will almost always be no even if your draft didn't go very well.
Now initially I dismissed this card as soon as I read it, being that it offers no inherent card advantage or develops the board state. However I have been thinking about the card more. It actually reads as a better version of 1U : Scry 5. That amount of card quality is quite insane. In addition, it can also function as a permanent seething song for delve spells, going turn two Taigam's Scheming into a 1 mana Hooting Mandrils/Sultai Scavenger + a 2 drop could be a very powerful tempo play.
What does everyone else think? Waste of a deck slot or somewhat passable?
The problem with using it as Delve fuel is that it ruins your Scry 5. If you dump a bunch of cards in the graveyard, you didn't get much benefit from reordering them. (Only when you get really lucky and the top of your deck was a bunch of garbage.) If you use it early in the game, that's exactly when you want to stack a mix of creatures and lands anyway to have a smooth draw.
So you can use it for card quality or turbo-Delve but not really both unless the stars align. If you do invest it all in a Delve, then your opponent kills that creature...that's awkward, now you essentially 2-for-1'd yourself.
Finally, it's a terrible topdeck since it doesn't draw even 1 card the turn you play it. I'd be much more interested if it was more like Scry 4, ditch the cards you don't want, then draw a card. As it is though...I think I'm going to pass on it. Card quality is so high in this block, I don't think you can afford to play a do-nothing spell even if it does set you up for decent future turns.
I think by the end of the format this will considered one of the best cards in the set.
Specifically for this card, I think it's poor overall unless you have a few good delve spells and are low on better enablers. Card advantage is often a big aspect of non-aggro decks but this card is card disadvantage not to mention spending two mana, and in my view that's generally not worth this effect.
Ultimately, you have to consider if running it will actually help your deck gain a card's worth of value. Since it doesn't replace itself, is it worth 2 mana and a card to fix mana, trigger some prowess dudes, and power out an early Hooting Mandrills or Treaure Cruise.
Standard: Mono Red #GetSwol
Elsewhere: Random Brews All Day, Erreday
~
It's scry 5 with upside. Great card.
Edit: I also disagree with the statement it doesn't replace itself. It does.... Slowly.
When I dump 3 lands I just drew 3 cards, albeit over the next 5 turns
but i'm finding that mana issues are BIG in this format. you really, really want to get the right colours of mana, but (more minor-ly) you don't want to be too flooded.
it seems more critical than ever before to make sure you get the right colours of lands, and enough of them, early on.
i've found cards like this and Scout the Borders to be super important for this reason, moreso than i had anticipated.
Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul
"no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
The Deathtoucher is an uncommon too. I didn't say there is nothing to do on turn 2, just that there is a big chance you'll pass it after playing your second land.
It's a fairly late pick up, but definitely belongs in the playable range. I would encourage people to give this card a chance, it's a C- at worst.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Scout the Borders
Bitter End
Rakshasa's Secret/Taigam's Scheming
depending on how many actual Delve cards you were able to pick up. Most times I'd rate Secret higher than Scheming, but if you're light on the other enablers I could imagine rating Scheming over Secret. Ideally, I wouldn't want more than 1 copy of each (or any copies of Scheming) in my draft deck.
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I would rate Bitter Revelation > Scout the Borders > Rakshasa's Secret > Taigam's Scheming
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Secret > Revelation > Scheming > Scout
I would place Mind Rot at about a C+ (good filler) in limited, stapling the self mill pushes toward B- or B. It will also just win you the game sometimes by blowing away an opponent's delicate hand (I lost an M15 event to a well placed Rot). Revelation is fantastic hand fixing, and you get most of your mana back, but its high initial investment can be fatal against faster opponents; gets hit by Disdainful Stroke. I put scheming above scout primarily because it costs 2 instead of 3; you will (almost) always have a turn 3 play and it's by far the most crowded point on the curve. There's a thread dedicated to how bad 2 land hands are in this format (and how unlikely mulling to 6 is to help), but 2 lands and a scheming is entirely keepable. My first impression of Scout was borderline unplayable and that's where I still have it; I probably would have taken it over scheming prior to last week, but being behind scheming and random morph creatures pretty much knocks it off my draft chart.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
It really is more comparable to a scry than a loot. To use the story from earlier, if I had cast looting or search and drawn those two black cards I would have a serious dilemma because if my top card had been a swamp they would be really good, but if the swamp was a long way off I would have to pitch something playable in order to keep them, which I might have done. Scheming also works when your hand is empty.
If you were stuck with Scout and Scheming would you choose the Scout?
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Yup, every time. Scout gets you the best card in the top 5 quicker. It does a similar job of filling the graveyard if that's important to you. Scheming sets up future draws but at the expense of having to wait a turn to get the first one. I don't put a lot of value on setting up my draws 2+ turns from present. Who knows how my opponent is going to change the equation before I get there.
It's true that Scheming is effectively Scry 5. But is Scry 5 worth a card, even with the benefit of the graveyard interaction you get with Scheming? Foresee had Scry 4 but it also drew 2 cards. I don't believe Scry 5 has ever been printed, but based on precedence, it does not seem worth a card.
I find that Rakshasa's Secret is actually playable, considering that most archetypes tend to be more midrangy and grindy.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Every card does something. Every card works in at least one scenario. Despite this, we have to identify the cards that are well below average and treat them like trash. Anything less is going to impede progress.
There might be 1 out of 100 draft decks that want Taigon's Scheming. That corner case is barely worth talking about. The card is a solid D- and should very rarely if ever see play.
The question isn't whether Taigam's Scheming does stuff, it's whether Taigam's Scheming does better stuff than X other cards that are competing to be in your deck. (At least 21, but if you drafted well, that pool of potential playables could be more like 25 or 30.) Scheming is far enough down the totem pole that the answer to that question will almost always be no even if your draft didn't go very well.