Well if nothing else, this spirited debate has proven the need for a Venting thread. There's certainly a large amount of pent-up frustration in the Magic community at large. It's expressed in various ways, but it's definitely there and I think many of us (myself included) can benefit from continuing to search for the healthiest outlets. For the record, I don't think this is the healthiest option either -- just a small step in the right direction vs. venting directly to your opponent. The healthiest reaction, of course, is coming to a positive resolution within one's self but that is difficult.
If anybody ever wants to come here and say "I really wanted to ream out my opponent, but I chose not to" -- just share and you'll get a few pats on the back. We've all been there. Don't think of it as having a personal flaw. It's a natural instinct.
Bji, just for the record I didn't mean to start anything by asking about your MTGO user name, but I accept and appreciate the apology (I was the guy playing Silumgar + Ojutai if you remember going against someone with both those cards - and I'd probably be in about as good a mood as you were if I were in the situation). The reason I even asked is because it did make me a little uncomfortable but, like some people here have said, we all get upset over the game sometimes. And just for the record of other posters in this thread, bji said absolutely nothing personally insulting or berating.
Bji, just for the record I didn't mean to start anything by asking about your MTGO user name, but I accept and appreciate the apology (I was the guy playing Silumgar + Ojutai if you remember going against someone with both those cards - and I'd probably be in about as good a mood as you were if I were in the situation). The reason I even asked is because it did make me a little uncomfortable but, like some people here have said, we all get upset over the game sometimes. And just for the record of other posters in this thread, bji said absolutely nothing personally insulting or berating.
I do kind of remember that match. Anyway I have no doubt that I whined like a baby and I sincerely apologize again especially now that I realize that it made you uncomfortable. This has been a very cathartic discussion for me. I'll sincerely try to keep a more level perspective in future matches.
Ugh, just played a Zendikar flashback draft and the jerk played Hedron Crab on turn 1 then and 3x Harrow and 2x Treasure Hunt. Getting milled sucks. Getting milled by a guy who played an 0/2 and an 0/4 sucks way worse.
Losing to mill is definitely tilting, because your opponent isn't really playing Magic or interacting with you. They're playing a combo deck, but one that doesn't put you out your misery quickly. There's a reason that Wizards never makes mill a competitive strategy in constructed, despite continually printing mill cards.
Drafted a pretty bonkers Mardu / Warriors deck featuring mardu ascendancy. It was a dream limited deck. Lost R2 to Citadel Siege... that card is STUPID. I went full tilt after losing.
Losing to mill is definitely tilting, because your opponent isn't really playing Magic or interacting with you. They're playing a combo deck, but one that doesn't put you out your misery quickly. There's a reason that Wizards never makes mill a competitive strategy in constructed, despite continually printing mill cards.
That's not entirely true. Sanity Grinding put out some fantastic results. It was really a nightmare for Faerie decks (the no1 deck back then)
But yea going forward, I believe incidental mill is still fine.
Had a very frustrating experience playing Sealed last night on MTGO:
Round 1, I win due to my opponent being inactive.
Round 2, I win due to my opponent being inactive.
Round 3, I get to play my first actual match in the queue and my opponent lands a turn two Mastery of the Unseen in both games. Game 1 I had to mull to five and kept a hand that was still bad because I knew it would be better than going to four. Game 2 was a little bit closer because I managed to get Ugin, the Spirit Dragon out but my opponent just swung at him with his remaining two manifests and after that I was so far behind on board. I can't decide which I'm actually more upset about - winning the games I did through no effort of my own or losing the one game I actually played due to bad draws and my opponent hitting his bomb first.
What's wrong with that? "My opponent played their 7-drop" I find to be a perfectly acceptable reason to lose a magic game.
That's a really, I don't know, trite, way to describe the game of magic. I suppose you think that anyone who lets their opponent get to 7 mana just deserves to lose? Well consider that we were both at 7 mana. The difference was that Bloodcranker had two incredibly good 6/7 mana spells in their deck, and he drew them both. And played them both. And I am quite sure that I had good answers to them (I may have had a board sweeper that I never drew, I can't recall for sure) but I didn't draw mine.
That's kind of the way magic goes and why it's so frustrating: every deck can play well if the draw is ordered to allow the deck's strategy to work, and can look like garbage if it doesn't. And it's frustrating to play against a deck that just happens to draw exactly the answers it needs when it needs it, while you do not, even though you have them.
And yeah, sometimes games go long and 7 mana spells come into play. Not sure why you think that nobody should be frustrated except by games that only get to 6 lands on the board for either player.
What's wrong with that? "My opponent played their 7-drop" I find to be a perfectly acceptable reason to lose a magic game.
That's a really, I don't know, trite, way to describe the game of magic.
I think the idea is just that it's more fair that a 7-drop wins the game basically on its own than a 2-drop. It can still feel terrible though, of course.
And yeah, sometimes games go long and 7 mana spells come into play. Not sure why you think that nobody should be frustrated except by games that only get to 6 lands on the board for either player.
And yeah, sometimes games go long and 7 mana spells come into play. Not sure why you think that nobody should be frustrated except by games that only get to 6 lands on the board for either player.
If it wasn't for luck I would never lose.
If it wasn't for luck, nobody would ever lose this game that we (or at least I) love to hate.
Not a successful day for me yesterday. In game 1 of a FRF-KTK-KTK draft match I apparently spaced out completely and despite having a dominating presence on board cast my last creature spell, figuring that if he had End Hostilities as his last card he would have played it last turn to wipe out my 3 good creatures to his one defender, plus his rush of creatures deck did not seem like hostilities would be a good fit. I even thought about it before I cast my last creature. Next turn End Hostilities led me to a game loss and then in game 2 getting stuck on 2 lands for 6 turns as he had an almost nut draw lost me the match. I was very angry at myself, the mana screw was just a these-things-happen issue but it cost me a shot at redemption so the timing was not ideal.
Then after I calmed down, in another swiss draft my opponent's Monastery Swiftspear (a card which in my view is bad) went the distance activating prowess every single turn after that, turn 4 he removed my morph as a blocker for his swiftspear and 3 goblin tokens, turn 5 he removed my Salt Road Patrol with his Ride Down, and turn 6 he removed my 4/4 creature with Bathe in Dragonfire leading to a turn 7 win. With his draw it felt like I was playing against a constructed deck, even though some of those cards are not played in constructed (and I only play limited anyway). Oh well, it must have been fun for him at least, and I'll have my day another day.
Well, this was an interesting conversation. Now that I only play at FNM instead of only on MTGO, I can see the difference. What used to be perceived as whining is now properly taken as light banter. I guess it helps that people you meet repeatedly becomes more and more your friends. No one takes offense or umbrage on their win when their opp mulligans to six, keeps a two-landers and loses without seeing another land, complaining they got screwed.
OTOH, other than mana screw, I try not to complain. Even if he did have just the magical answer, he still navigated the game so that he could win at that point. But yeah, someone repeatedly drawing his 1-of to beat you can be frustrating at times.
As for venting, well, FNMs unfortunately have their own, different issues. Like me losing the 2nd round to a cheater. Unfortunately, he won the two other games regularly (well, AFAIK), so his win was still 'legitimate', but it feels bad when one tries to pull a fast one on you, you prevent it, but you still end up losing. (For the record, it was trying to play a spell without the proper mana.)
Lost to some 4-color mess that featured End Hostilities, Crux of Fate, and Death Frenzy. It didn't really matter how badly he played because he had 3 reset buttons available. Did you know you can play WW, BB, UU, and WBG cards in the same draft deck? I didn't! Oh and he played Crucible of the Spirit Dragon just to make me feel like a goddamn jackass for even bothering to try to be good at this game.
Lost to some 4-color mess that featured End Hostilities, Crux of Fate, and Death Frenzy. It didn't really matter how badly he played because he had 3 reset buttons available. Did you know you can play WW, BB, UU, and WBG cards in the same draft deck? I didn't! Oh and he played Crucible of the Spirit Dragon just to make me feel like a goddamn jackass for even bothering to try to be good at this game.
Yeah, I feel your pain.
I went 3-3 on the night last night. Net change in rating: -20. Played against Citadel Siege in two separate matches on the same night.
Still, I can't help but feel that if I'd played a little bit tighter I'd have been at least 4-2, maybe 5-1. I know for sure of at least one BIG misplay, and I'll bet there were a number of smaller ones.
Lost to some 4-color mess that featured End Hostilities, Crux of Fate, and Death Frenzy. It didn't really matter how badly he played because he had 3 reset buttons available. Did you know you can play WW, BB, UU, and WBG cards in the same draft deck? I didn't! Oh and he played Crucible of the Spirit Dragon just to make me feel like a goddamn jackass for even bothering to try to be good at this game.
Not everyone is going to have the same play style as you do. You seem to have a hard time accepting that though given the number of venting thread comments you make that basically state that your opponent's deck could not possibly be good because it doesn't follow your definition of how decks should be built.
I don't think you should feel like a jackass for "even bothering to try to be good at this game", but you might want to reconsider whether you want to imply that others are not "even bothering to try to be good at this game" just because they beat you with a deck that doesn't fit your play style.
I know this is the venting thread so anything you say to vent is acceptable under the purposes of the thread, but as a person who has tried to take advice from the outcome of discussion in this thread, I believe that some good can come from attitude adjustments.
There's a massive difference between play style and unreliable deck building. Building a crazy mana base without a pile of dual and tri-lands is not a play style, it's a lack of understanding of how a mana base should be built so that your deck doesn't beat you regularly. That sort of mana base shouldn't work out, but luck is involved and it worked out in 2 out of 3 games against me -- that's my gripe. I'm the unlucky guy who was on the losing end of my opponent's combo of greedy deck design and good luck. I beat him in a laugher in game 2 when his mana fell apart.
I have to remind myself that I might beat him 7 out of 10 matches, but we only get to play one.
And yes, at this point in the history of Magic, considering the resources freely available, someone building some greedy, horrible mana base is not really trying to be good. They're basically goofing around. That's fine, they're entitled to it, but putting in the effort to hone strategy is supposed to pay off.
There's no telling if he necessarily built his deck wrong, though. It's far from optimal of course, but perhaps he ended up in the wrong colors, took a bunch of speculative picks, and watched as the lands never came around. It's better to play a mess of off-color bombs that loses spectacularly 75% of the time than a pile of on-color unplayables that loses narrowly 80% of the time.
It's fair to complain that some limited formats are overly conducive to that, but that's the trade-off when you have a multicolored theme. Some decks stay disciplined and have consistent long-term results, some decks get greedy by stretching their mana and have inconsistent results. Some games just become a battle of the percentages, frustrating as they may be.
If anybody ever wants to come here and say "I really wanted to ream out my opponent, but I chose not to" -- just share and you'll get a few pats on the back. We've all been there. Don't think of it as having a personal flaw. It's a natural instinct.
I do kind of remember that match. Anyway I have no doubt that I whined like a baby and I sincerely apologize again especially now that I realize that it made you uncomfortable. This has been a very cathartic discussion for me. I'll sincerely try to keep a more level perspective in future matches.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
It's pretty tilting when answers get milled away.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
that card is STUPID.I went full tilt after losing.That's not entirely true. Sanity Grinding put out some fantastic results. It was really a nightmare for Faerie decks (the no1 deck back then)
But yea going forward, I believe incidental mill is still fine.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Round 1, I win due to my opponent being inactive.
Round 2, I win due to my opponent being inactive.
Round 3, I get to play my first actual match in the queue and my opponent lands a turn two Mastery of the Unseen in both games. Game 1 I had to mull to five and kept a hand that was still bad because I knew it would be better than going to four. Game 2 was a little bit closer because I managed to get Ugin, the Spirit Dragon out but my opponent just swung at him with his remaining two manifests and after that I was so far behind on board. I can't decide which I'm actually more upset about - winning the games I did through no effort of my own or losing the one game I actually played due to bad draws and my opponent hitting his bomb first.
It could have been worse. He could have had both Silumgar and Ojutai and gotten the draws to play them both.
What's wrong with that? "My opponent played their 7-drop" I find to be a perfectly acceptable reason to lose a magic game.
T2: Mardu Scout
T3: Bathe in Dragonfire
T4: Goblin Heelcutter
T5: Dashed Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
That was the most one-sided loss in a draft that I've had in a long time...
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
EDH Altered Cards by Galspanic (Seriously, this guy's awesome.)
My Pauper Cube
Tapped-Out Simulator
My Trade Thread
-Decks-
Commander:
GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion WB
Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW
That's a really, I don't know, trite, way to describe the game of magic. I suppose you think that anyone who lets their opponent get to 7 mana just deserves to lose? Well consider that we were both at 7 mana. The difference was that Bloodcranker had two incredibly good 6/7 mana spells in their deck, and he drew them both. And played them both. And I am quite sure that I had good answers to them (I may have had a board sweeper that I never drew, I can't recall for sure) but I didn't draw mine.
That's kind of the way magic goes and why it's so frustrating: every deck can play well if the draw is ordered to allow the deck's strategy to work, and can look like garbage if it doesn't. And it's frustrating to play against a deck that just happens to draw exactly the answers it needs when it needs it, while you do not, even though you have them.
And yeah, sometimes games go long and 7 mana spells come into play. Not sure why you think that nobody should be frustrated except by games that only get to 6 lands on the board for either player.
I think the idea is just that it's more fair that a 7-drop wins the game basically on its own than a 2-drop. It can still feel terrible though, of course.
If it wasn't for luck I would never lose.
If it wasn't for luck, nobody would ever lose this game that we (or at least I) love to hate.
Turn 2 Whisperer of the Wilds
Turn 3 Dragonscale General
Turn 4 Ankle Shanker
Turn 5 Siege Rhino
I cannot possibly roll my eyes enough at this garbage.
Then after I calmed down, in another swiss draft my opponent's Monastery Swiftspear (a card which in my view is bad) went the distance activating prowess every single turn after that, turn 4 he removed my morph as a blocker for his swiftspear and 3 goblin tokens, turn 5 he removed my Salt Road Patrol with his Ride Down, and turn 6 he removed my 4/4 creature with Bathe in Dragonfire leading to a turn 7 win. With his draw it felt like I was playing against a constructed deck, even though some of those cards are not played in constructed (and I only play limited anyway). Oh well, it must have been fun for him at least, and I'll have my day another day.
OTOH, other than mana screw, I try not to complain. Even if he did have just the magical answer, he still navigated the game so that he could win at that point. But yeah, someone repeatedly drawing his 1-of to beat you can be frustrating at times.
As for venting, well, FNMs unfortunately have their own, different issues. Like me losing the 2nd round to a cheater. Unfortunately, he won the two other games regularly (well, AFAIK), so his win was still 'legitimate', but it feels bad when one tries to pull a fast one on you, you prevent it, but you still end up losing. (For the record, it was trying to play a spell without the proper mana.)
Yeah, I feel your pain.
I went 3-3 on the night last night. Net change in rating: -20. Played against Citadel Siege in two separate matches on the same night.
Still, I can't help but feel that if I'd played a little bit tighter I'd have been at least 4-2, maybe 5-1. I know for sure of at least one BIG misplay, and I'll bet there were a number of smaller ones.
Not everyone is going to have the same play style as you do. You seem to have a hard time accepting that though given the number of venting thread comments you make that basically state that your opponent's deck could not possibly be good because it doesn't follow your definition of how decks should be built.
I don't think you should feel like a jackass for "even bothering to try to be good at this game", but you might want to reconsider whether you want to imply that others are not "even bothering to try to be good at this game" just because they beat you with a deck that doesn't fit your play style.
I know this is the venting thread so anything you say to vent is acceptable under the purposes of the thread, but as a person who has tried to take advice from the outcome of discussion in this thread, I believe that some good can come from attitude adjustments.
I have to remind myself that I might beat him 7 out of 10 matches, but we only get to play one.
And yes, at this point in the history of Magic, considering the resources freely available, someone building some greedy, horrible mana base is not really trying to be good. They're basically goofing around. That's fine, they're entitled to it, but putting in the effort to hone strategy is supposed to pay off.
It's fair to complain that some limited formats are overly conducive to that, but that's the trade-off when you have a multicolored theme. Some decks stay disciplined and have consistent long-term results, some decks get greedy by stretching their mana and have inconsistent results. Some games just become a battle of the percentages, frustrating as they may be.
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