I don't think a 7 power creature that can't be killed is something to scoff at. Go ahead and get the 8 toughness creature you need to block it and live, c'mon!! If I get the paragon I can give it trample which is nice. Then there's hot soup. Go on outrace me swinging for 7.
I'll be ramping with Elvish Mystic and getting my Nestcaster Spider on to block that horrible demon.
The Black guy will be dying to Ulcerate and Lightning Strike. I'm just not sure he's going to be an awesome threat with that low toughness and everybody looking to kill him.
A 7 power creature that can be chumped even easier than a normal green fatty is something to smirk at, if not scoff. If you can give it evasion, sure, that's great, but there are three promos that have it built in!
Not to mention you can chump it to tap it down for the following turn. You don't really get to "swing for 7" since that implies every turn.
I assume that's what he meant by "can be chumped easier than a normal green fatty"
My bad, I thought he was referencing the lack of Trample. There are so many ways that Phytotitan is worse than it looks, it's hard to pick up on individual references.
Stupid Question: The promo page says "Those are the five promo cards that you can receive at a Magic 2015 Prerelease." It doesn't specifically say they'll come with each seeded pack, right?
I'm going red on this one even though it's quite expensive. The alternate art on it is awesome, and it destroys walls. Even though it's a little expensive, It's great with Crucible of Fire. I'm looking to make a big dragon deck out with it. Just put some Crucible of Fires in it and you're good.
Also, with the black card, you just have to destroy it somehow and they won't be getting free cards. I mean, it only has three life.
Black is leaps and bounds better than the others, I didn't read green carefully when I first saw it I thought it came back on opponents turn.
The set is still balanced with Indulgent Tormentor due to the fact that the rest of black is terrible. Blue isn't very bad as a color this set, but for sure the promo is weak. My color choice is red, and I usually go for blue or black. Red comes out with strong low-drops, decent burns, and a few good bombs. Depending on if i get some mystics and verdant havens I may choose green as secondary but right now red and white look really strong together. Green has awesome big guys but I feel that there just isn't enough acceleration in this set to make it a viable option as a color of choice.
Black = weak due to rest of set, other than promo
Green = weak due to lackluster promo and little acceleration
Blue = decent, with exception of weak promo
Red = strong, good promo, easily playable creatures, fast out the gate, maintainable speed with good burns and bombs
White = strong, good promo, great token generation, good defense and offense
all of them run great with artifacts, hope I pull SDE that would be sweet lol
I've been looking at Black sealed pools and they're not as bad as you guys make them out to be. Not a lot of flying, but a good amount of removal and late game wipes. What do you guys think is the best color, regardless of promo? White?
It's really not. Likely one of the strongest colours at common and uncommon. Sene's set review thread gives a good overview of why.
Also, it's fine if that is your opinion (though it should be backed up if you want anyone to listen to you, especially since many here think that black is really strong), but be careful with the word "fact" there. What you are saying is not actually a fact. Nor would my claim of black being the strongest color be a fact - it's just my opinion.
I really don't understand why some people think Black is weak in this set. What are they looking for?! There's hard removal, evasion and card draw practically even with Blue, a plethora of decent 5 drops, enough curve to stay competitive. What's not to like? I don't get it.
Back to the main topic, the Blue promo is easily the worst promo since they started letting us play them, and the first promo that could be cut from a good on-color deck. It's a real head scratcher. I mean, Master of Predicaments is sitting right there.
Haha, I wonder if someone at Wizards wrote a note like "Make sure M.P. is the Blue promo" and someone misinterpreted it.
I wonder if the reason opinions are so split on black is that a lot of its good commons and uncommons are aggressive and would have been pretty meh in M14. With convoke in the set not nearly as much/as good removal (no pacifism, claustrophobia downgraded, no Quag Sickness), fewer great defensive creatures (no 1/3 flyer for 2, no 2/3 flash flyer), it seems likely that this set will be more aggressive, which means black should be well positioned.
We'll see of course - that evaluation could be way off - majority opinion before Theros was that it would be extremely slow and that obviously turned out not to be the case.
Yea, Black is definitely the best because of the promo (Blue should have really gotten Master of Predicaments and Red should have gotten Hoarding Dragon, but oh well). I've been testing a ton of sealed pools for each color, trying to figure out which is the best, and that promo just puts them too ahead. Some other things I've noticed:
- Every deck besides Green and sometimes Red wins the game in the air. This means, if you are green, Plummet is absolutely a maindeck choice because it kills just about whatever win condition your opponent has.
- While Black is the best because of the promo, the rares for Black suck. Unless you pull Ob or a second copy of the promo, you're going to be pulling a pretty bad rare for sealed.
- White is probably the best color in the set. It has the best early game of any of the colors, its bombs and rares are really good, and they're usually able to have the best creature in the air
- Honestly Black isn't by far the best, it's just the best. Picking any color besides blue can lead to a pretty viable deck. If you pick green you won't be using the promo if you pull decent, but that helps flesh out the ramp parts of the deck so even something like Hornet Queen can be somewhat reasonable.
- Child of the Night may seem like a decent card because it has passable stats and Lifelink is a pretty amazing ability, but it's bad. Look at the kind of cards it trades with. Black Cat, you are down 1 card. Forge Devil kills it for free. Satyr Wayfinder trades favorably as well. All those white tokens just kill it. It's really not good unless you are filling in the curve or using it with a deck like green that can make it win battles.
- Side in Festergloom against White decks.
- Be careful using your Black promo to attack or block, most colors have good outs to it then. Sitting on it gaining card advantage is often better if you are uncertain. White has Devouring Light, Blue can frogify it in some way then block or Aetherspouts, Black can Necrobite a flier, Red has a bunch of outs regardless if you attack or not, green has a bunch of damage tricks if it has a flier on the field.
- If you're going to be green expect a lot of Typhoid Rats
I really don't understand why some people think Black is weak in this set. What are they looking for?! There's hard removal, evasion and card draw practically even with Blue, a plethora of decent 5 drops, enough curve to stay competitive. What's not to like? I don't get it.
Back to the main topic, the Blue promo is easily the worst promo since they started letting us play them, and the first promo that could be cut from a good on-color deck. It's a real head scratcher. I mean, Master of Predicaments is sitting right there.
Haha, I wonder if someone at Wizards wrote a note like "Make sure M.P. is the Blue promo" and someone misinterpreted it.
I am picking Black, but one thing I've noticed in the many sealed pools that I've done is that it is very hard to find a decent 2-drop. They have a nice one at 3 with Fleshmad Wind Drake, but most of the good black starts at 4 and doesn't get good until 5. Typhoid Rats and Black Cat are serviceable I suppose, and I like Child of Night as much as the next guy, but they are pretty meh as a base. Plus, the uncommon creatures are really uninspiring beyond Gravedigger and Necrogen Scudder. Black feels a bit more like a support color, with some really solid finishers and removal, but even weaker creatures than usual.
After I saw the poll results, I immediately pre-registered for the local Sealed event so that I could claim the black promo. I love Bloodgift Demon and Indulgent Tormentor is just as good. (Except that is dies to Lightning Strike)
Oh wow... blue one is freaking horrible. I thought it was just Clone with the Sakishimia ability. But only clones your own dudes?! SADNESS! >_<! Maybe i can exchange it for another color. Yikes...
Private Mod Note
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Fact may be too strong of a word to use, I don't usually post to forums but I decided I'd start being active in one for m15. The only way to back up my claim would be to go through every card in the set and compare/contrast and I wasn't entirely sure anyone would be interested in reading an extremely long list. I did evaluate each one individually in a spreadsheet, giving them points out of 5 then determined the weight of the scores based on the amount of rares, uncommons and commons per pack. I'm basing my opinion on that, but if you were interested in reading through a list of my opinions of each card I could try to come up with something.
Fact may be too strong of a word to use, I don't usually post to forums but I decided I'd start being active in one for m15. The only way to back up my claim would be to go through every card in the set and compare/contrast and I wasn't entirely sure anyone would be interested in reading an extremely long list. I did evaluate each one individually in a spreadsheet, giving them points out of 5 then determined the weight of the scores based on the amount of rares, uncommons and commons per pack. I'm basing my opinion on that, but if you were interested in reading through a list of my opinions of each card I could try to come up with something.
You don't have to go through it numerically. You could just say "all of their creatures are overcosted" or whatever. I just feel like they have some pretty excellent cards for an aggressive deck. If what you like to do with black is go control then I agree with you. The black rares are pretty disappointing (In Garruk's Wake, Necromancer's Stockpile, Stain the Mind, and Waste Not all seem nearly unplayable), but that doesn't matter very much for limited.
Tested a bit more, Festergloom is absolutely mainboard material if you are using black and not splashing white/red. Sure, it won't do anything against the mirrors (AKA, about every match), but White is probably the best color in the set, and they have a super solid early game. If you can't punish them for going Oreskos Swiftclaw / Raise the Alarm / Triplicate Spirits early game (most black decks can't) then you'll start losing real quick. Sign in Blood and Mind Rot seem amazing on paper, but not playing a creature in the first two/three turns against a white deck can set you real behind. Red can make the same argument with Circle of Flame, but that doesn't hit Triplicate Spirits, so I'm not sure.
If you are picking the seeded pack just for the biggest chance of getting a really good rare for sealed, then Blue is surprisingly your best option. Chasm Skulker demands early removal, Master of Predicaments is a real good win condition, Polymorphist's Jest can win you the game if you catch your opponent off guard (works ridiculously well with Circle of Flame and Festergloom too), Aetherspouts wins you the game in the same way as well. That's 4/8 of the blue rares being really good. Chief Engineer and Jalira are also somewhat playable too. You just gotta hope to not get a repeat of the promo or a Stormtide Leviathan. Next best color for good rares is White with Avacyn, Spirit Bonds, and Spectra Ward. Actually, thinking of it now, Return to the Ranks should also be really good in sealed compared to draft. So with both blue and white you have a 50/50 shot of getting a really good promo, which is better than I can say for any of the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I am no authority on this) but I thought you judged a color based on the commons/uncommons it brings for limited and not the wild shot at rippig tech rares/mythics.
I don't think a 7 power creature that can't be killed is something to scoff at. Go ahead and get the 8 toughness creature you need to block it and live, c'mon!! If I get the paragon I can give it trample which is nice. Then there's hot soup. Go on outrace me swinging for 7.
I'll be ramping with Elvish Mystic and getting my Nestcaster Spider on to block that horrible demon.
The Black guy will be dying to Ulcerate and Lightning Strike. I'm just not sure he's going to be an awesome threat with that low toughness and everybody looking to kill him.
Not to mention you can chump it to tap it down for the following turn. You don't really get to "swing for 7" since that implies every turn.
My bad, I thought he was referencing the lack of Trample. There are so many ways that Phytotitan is worse than it looks, it's hard to pick up on individual references.
I think white is second, red third, blue 4th, and I'm not even sure I'd play the Green one every time.
The Green one is significantly worse than a green uncommon that is doing the same thing, just way better (Ancient Silverback).
Or am I missing something?
EDIT - I think I found it. "In addition Prerelease Packs contain a Premium ‘Prerelease foil’ to keep."
I'm going red on this one even though it's quite expensive. The alternate art on it is awesome, and it destroys walls. Even though it's a little expensive, It's great with Crucible of Fire. I'm looking to make a big dragon deck out with it. Just put some Crucible of Fires in it and you're good.
Also, with the black card, you just have to destroy it somehow and they won't be getting free cards. I mean, it only has three life.
The set is still balanced with Indulgent Tormentor due to the fact that the rest of black is terrible. Blue isn't very bad as a color this set, but for sure the promo is weak. My color choice is red, and I usually go for blue or black. Red comes out with strong low-drops, decent burns, and a few good bombs. Depending on if i get some mystics and verdant havens I may choose green as secondary but right now red and white look really strong together. Green has awesome big guys but I feel that there just isn't enough acceleration in this set to make it a viable option as a color of choice.
Black = weak due to rest of set, other than promo
Green = weak due to lackluster promo and little acceleration
Blue = decent, with exception of weak promo
Red = strong, good promo, easily playable creatures, fast out the gate, maintainable speed with good burns and bombs
White = strong, good promo, great token generation, good defense and offense
all of them run great with artifacts, hope I pull SDE that would be sweet lol
Also, it's fine if that is your opinion (though it should be backed up if you want anyone to listen to you, especially since many here think that black is really strong), but be careful with the word "fact" there. What you are saying is not actually a fact. Nor would my claim of black being the strongest color be a fact - it's just my opinion.
Back to the main topic, the Blue promo is easily the worst promo since they started letting us play them, and the first promo that could be cut from a good on-color deck. It's a real head scratcher. I mean, Master of Predicaments is sitting right there.
Haha, I wonder if someone at Wizards wrote a note like "Make sure M.P. is the Blue promo" and someone misinterpreted it.
We'll see of course - that evaluation could be way off - majority opinion before Theros was that it would be extremely slow and that obviously turned out not to be the case.
- Every deck besides Green and sometimes Red wins the game in the air. This means, if you are green, Plummet is absolutely a maindeck choice because it kills just about whatever win condition your opponent has.
- While Black is the best because of the promo, the rares for Black suck. Unless you pull Ob or a second copy of the promo, you're going to be pulling a pretty bad rare for sealed.
- White is probably the best color in the set. It has the best early game of any of the colors, its bombs and rares are really good, and they're usually able to have the best creature in the air
- Honestly Black isn't by far the best, it's just the best. Picking any color besides blue can lead to a pretty viable deck. If you pick green you won't be using the promo if you pull decent, but that helps flesh out the ramp parts of the deck so even something like Hornet Queen can be somewhat reasonable.
- Child of the Night may seem like a decent card because it has passable stats and Lifelink is a pretty amazing ability, but it's bad. Look at the kind of cards it trades with. Black Cat, you are down 1 card. Forge Devil kills it for free. Satyr Wayfinder trades favorably as well. All those white tokens just kill it. It's really not good unless you are filling in the curve or using it with a deck like green that can make it win battles.
- Side in Festergloom against White decks.
- Be careful using your Black promo to attack or block, most colors have good outs to it then. Sitting on it gaining card advantage is often better if you are uncertain. White has Devouring Light, Blue can frogify it in some way then block or Aetherspouts, Black can Necrobite a flier, Red has a bunch of outs regardless if you attack or not, green has a bunch of damage tricks if it has a flier on the field.
- If you're going to be green expect a lot of Typhoid Rats
I assume it's going to be the Soul cycle, but planeswalkers are possible.
I am picking Black, but one thing I've noticed in the many sealed pools that I've done is that it is very hard to find a decent 2-drop. They have a nice one at 3 with Fleshmad Wind Drake, but most of the good black starts at 4 and doesn't get good until 5. Typhoid Rats and Black Cat are serviceable I suppose, and I like Child of Night as much as the next guy, but they are pretty meh as a base. Plus, the uncommon creatures are really uninspiring beyond Gravedigger and Necrogen Scudder. Black feels a bit more like a support color, with some really solid finishers and removal, but even weaker creatures than usual.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
You don't have to go through it numerically. You could just say "all of their creatures are overcosted" or whatever. I just feel like they have some pretty excellent cards for an aggressive deck. If what you like to do with black is go control then I agree with you. The black rares are pretty disappointing (In Garruk's Wake, Necromancer's Stockpile, Stain the Mind, and Waste Not all seem nearly unplayable), but that doesn't matter very much for limited.
If you are picking the seeded pack just for the biggest chance of getting a really good rare for sealed, then Blue is surprisingly your best option. Chasm Skulker demands early removal, Master of Predicaments is a real good win condition, Polymorphist's Jest can win you the game if you catch your opponent off guard (works ridiculously well with Circle of Flame and Festergloom too), Aetherspouts wins you the game in the same way as well. That's 4/8 of the blue rares being really good. Chief Engineer and Jalira are also somewhat playable too. You just gotta hope to not get a repeat of the promo or a Stormtide Leviathan. Next best color for good rares is White with Avacyn, Spirit Bonds, and Spectra Ward. Actually, thinking of it now, Return to the Ranks should also be really good in sealed compared to draft. So with both blue and white you have a 50/50 shot of getting a really good promo, which is better than I can say for any of the others.