One of the most common pitfalls I run into when drafting a non-aggro deck, especially in BTT, is that I find I end up having not even close to enough early game cards. My curve will essentially start at three without me really intending it to.
Do you guys have any tips? At what point do you start prioritizing mediocre to OK early game cards over good to great mid/late game cards?
Depends on how you define 'powerful late game cards.'
Like, some people might draft 2 copies of Vulpine Goliath early in a Theros pack because it is a very strong 6 mana card. But you only need 1-2 cards like the Goliath in your deck.
Especially in this format, you will not have a shortage of 5-7 drop cards available to you. If you draft with the idea in mind that you aren't playing more than 4 five-drops, you'll prioritize a lot better.
I more meant something like Nyxborn Eidolon vs. Erebos' Emissary when your pool is mostly 3+ drops.
I mean, obviously I can't create the perfect scenario, and MTGS is going to give me the answer to my specific scenario with specific cards every time, but it's mostly to give you the right idea.
Well, I would almost never take a random dork over Erebos's Emissary... but I get your question.
I think that outside of bomb status, curve considerations are a high concern. Like Leafcrown Dryad should be taken over say Nessian Asp if you have 4-5 5-drops already.
I primarily worry about shoring up my curve in pack 3. If my curve is very lean in one area, I will definitely take a card that fills a hole over one that is a stronger card in a vacuum. There are limits of course (I'm not taking Setessen Battle Priest over Celestial Archon no matter what my curve looks like), but your curve (and other general deck issues like creature/spell balance) should be informing your picks in late pack 2 and pack 3.
Frankly, you try to build a curve and have enough cards that can be played on the first 3 turns (not just cards that cost 1-3 mana) so you can interact. Bestow is a great way to have cards that are relevant early game but also relevent as topdecks lategame. This is a fantastic Limited mechanic. Bestow guys should be drafted aggressively. But in Limited you can't "make sure". Variance is a thing.
This weekend I had the most frustrating loss in JBT sealed to a blistering fast BW aggro that was pretty much all X/1s. Post-board I had Scouring Sands, Drown in Sorrow, Doomwake Giant, several enchantments to trigger constellation, and 2 Rollick of Abandon in a deck full of cheap 1/3s, 2/3s, 1/4s and bigger and deathtouch guys. I drew only the butts but none of the spells, was only able to stall on the ground, and he eventually killed me with Master of the Feast, a 2/1 flyer and tricks. I even had Silence the Believers for Master but got blown out by Gods Willing. There were about 9 turns of stalling where any of those cards would have been a 5-for-1 for me. The final turn before I died, a Rollick would not only have killed 7 out of his 8 creatures but also given me lethal to swing at him that very turn all the way down from 20. Even drawing 2 cards a turn and having 5 Plague Winds in a 40-card deck didn't help. It seems you can never be sure to have enough early game.
NOTE: BTT and JBT are formats with TONS of good 5-drops. So it's very easy to count on drafting a good 5-drop and 6-drop at some point in the draft. As such, good 2-drops and 3-drops go at a premium. I find people get competitive grabbing them early. You get splash damage from the folks trying to play unfair aggro and intentionally grabbing all the low cc creatures.
This is the 10th time I've posted something, had MTGS tell me there was an error, re-posted and discovered it double posted. Issue with the website?
At least this is better than the MTGO client.
Yep, still working out a bunch of bugs. In the future, you can just edit the doubled post to say "double post" and we'll sweep it up.
On topic, I will grab 2-3 drops pretty highly. Curve is duper important, and five-six drops abound.
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With respect to JBT draft, I think the most powerful cards in the first pack ARE the (Common) 1- and 2-drops. They're better than their counterparts in the later packs.
Granted, if I start the draft with a pair of Cast into Darkness and a Bloodcrazed Hoplite, I'm probably going to keep taking bears and only the best removal and high-drops and just drive home on aggression.
But even blue's two-drops in the Journey pack are better than their counterparts in later packs. (Pin to the Earth and Sigiled Starfish)
You usually want to take early drops as early as possible, so that if you get a bomb late drop later you pick it up without worrying too much about your curve. Last night I did a draft where I first picked Golden Hind over FLeetfeather Cockatrice, then took that Centaur lord over another Cockatrice. The guy I was passing to first picked Scourge of Fleets, then took both Cockatrices. Since I was passing to him and was in green he never saw a ramp spell the entire draft. Guess which one of us won the draft and which one went 0-2 drop.
You usually want to take early drops as early as possible, so that if you get a bomb late drop later you pick it up without worrying too much about your curve. Last night I did a draft where I first picked Golden Hind over FLeetfeather Cockatrice, then took that Centaur lord over another Cockatrice. The guy I was passing to first picked Scourge of Fleets, then took both Cockatrices. Since I was passing to him and was in green he never saw a ramp spell the entire draft. Guess which one of us won the draft and which one went 0-2 drop.
This scenario isn't quite the best since you took cheaper single color cards over expensive multicolor cards. Taking multicolor cards at the beginning of a draft is inherently risky to begin with.
I might be over-valuing Golden Hind, but if I don't see them in pack 1, I don't want to be green.
You should start prioritizing early drops over more expensive cards from pick 1 pack 1 and never stop. You should never take an expensive card over a playable cheap one, unless you are absolutely sure you know what you're doing. In this format in particular, it is almost always wrong to take the expensive cards, because there are so many ways to make early drops transform into late-game threats.
If you're anything like me, this sounds like the least fun thing ever, but I'm pretty sure it's correct. And in practice you do get to play with the 5-drops too. If you take 2- and 3-drops all through the first two packs and then you come to Theros and see Nessian Asp versus some random 3-drop, you can safely take the Nessian Asp at that point because if you followed this suggestion, you won't be overloaded with 5-drops.
I might be over-valuing Golden Hind, but if I don't see them in pack 1, I don't want to be green.
I might be over-valuing Golden Hind, but if I don't see them in pack 1, I don't want to be green.
No, I think that's about right.
Are there other cards you feel the same way about in other colors? For me, I really want a pair of Cast into Darkness and a couple bears if I'm playing black.
I think Magma Jet probably better, but I like Sigiled Skink more, though haven't had a chance to play it yet.
I haven't noticed an Ajani's Presence yet, but that seems about in the same spot, even if I like the Oreskos Swiftclaw a bit better (though I'm quite sure I'm overevaluating that one). Ajani's Presence and Cast into Darkness don't really care which bears you end up with.
You should start prioritizing early drops over more expensive cards from pick 1 pack 1 and never stop. You should never take an expensive card over a playable cheap one, unless you are absolutely sure you know what you're doing. In this format in particular, it is almost always wrong to take the expensive cards, because there are so many ways to make early drops transform into late-game threats.
Obviously early drops are important in this format (and all formats, honestly), but this isn't good advice. If a pack has a 2 drop that's roughly the same power level as a 5 drop, you're correct that you should probably take the 2. It sounds like you're suggesting that you take any playable 1-3 over ANY high drop, which is just plain not right. Did I misunderstand?
There are certain 5 or 6-drops you should be taking over 2 and 3 drops, but if the power level is not vastly different you should usually take the low drop.
But honestly if you've drafted in such a way that you have a ton of lategame and nothing early I could see taking something like Voyaging Satyr or Sedge Scorpion over Nessian Asp or even Arbor Colossus. This is why you should prioritize early drops from the beginning of your draft, so that later you can take the overwhelmingly powerful card instead of having to take something much worse to fill out your curve.
In the first pack of a draft here are 5+ drops I would be happy to take over a strong 2-4 drop: Dictate of Heliod Doomwake Giant Heroes' Bane Hydra Broodmaster Hour of Need (This card is really a 5-7 drop) Whitewater Naiads
Keranos or Ajani
A good mnemonic is that, if the power level of two cards is pretty close, you should opt for the cheaper one. Obviously if your curve is already skewing low you can adjust accordingly, but for the OPs question this mentality has helped me draft a more balanced curve. Sometimes it's really painful, but passing that Stoneshock Giant over a measly 2/1 might be the right thing to do, especially if you're already heavy on the 5+ cards. Also, there is normally no issue finding a 6 drop or two in Theros limited, so you can almost look at those cards as being interchangeable (within reason).
Do you guys have any tips? At what point do you start prioritizing mediocre to OK early game cards over good to great mid/late game cards?
Like, some people might draft 2 copies of Vulpine Goliath early in a Theros pack because it is a very strong 6 mana card. But you only need 1-2 cards like the Goliath in your deck.
Especially in this format, you will not have a shortage of 5-7 drop cards available to you. If you draft with the idea in mind that you aren't playing more than 4 five-drops, you'll prioritize a lot better.
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I more meant something like Nyxborn Eidolon vs. Erebos' Emissary when your pool is mostly 3+ drops.
I mean, obviously I can't create the perfect scenario, and MTGS is going to give me the answer to my specific scenario with specific cards every time, but it's mostly to give you the right idea.
I think that outside of bomb status, curve considerations are a high concern. Like Leafcrown Dryad should be taken over say Nessian Asp if you have 4-5 5-drops already.
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UFblthpU
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URWZedruuWRU
This weekend I had the most frustrating loss in JBT sealed to a blistering fast BW aggro that was pretty much all X/1s. Post-board I had Scouring Sands, Drown in Sorrow, Doomwake Giant, several enchantments to trigger constellation, and 2 Rollick of Abandon in a deck full of cheap 1/3s, 2/3s, 1/4s and bigger and deathtouch guys. I drew only the butts but none of the spells, was only able to stall on the ground, and he eventually killed me with Master of the Feast, a 2/1 flyer and tricks. I even had Silence the Believers for Master but got blown out by Gods Willing. There were about 9 turns of stalling where any of those cards would have been a 5-for-1 for me. The final turn before I died, a Rollick would not only have killed 7 out of his 8 creatures but also given me lethal to swing at him that very turn all the way down from 20. Even drawing 2 cards a turn and having 5 Plague Winds in a 40-card deck didn't help. It seems you can never be sure to have enough early game.
NOTE: BTT and JBT are formats with TONS of good 5-drops. So it's very easy to count on drafting a good 5-drop and 6-drop at some point in the draft. As such, good 2-drops and 3-drops go at a premium. I find people get competitive grabbing them early. You get splash damage from the folks trying to play unfair aggro and intentionally grabbing all the low cc creatures.
This is the 10th time I've posted something, had MTGS tell me there was an error, re-posted and discovered it double posted. Issue with the website?
At least this is better than the MTGO client.
Yep, still working out a bunch of bugs. In the future, you can just edit the doubled post to say "double post" and we'll sweep it up.
On topic, I will grab 2-3 drops pretty highly. Curve is duper important, and five-six drops abound.
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Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
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Granted, if I start the draft with a pair of Cast into Darkness and a Bloodcrazed Hoplite, I'm probably going to keep taking bears and only the best removal and high-drops and just drive home on aggression.
But even blue's two-drops in the Journey pack are better than their counterparts in later packs. (Pin to the Earth and Sigiled Starfish)
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I might be over-valuing Golden Hind, but if I don't see them in pack 1, I don't want to be green.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
If you're anything like me, this sounds like the least fun thing ever, but I'm pretty sure it's correct. And in practice you do get to play with the 5-drops too. If you take 2- and 3-drops all through the first two packs and then you come to Theros and see Nessian Asp versus some random 3-drop, you can safely take the Nessian Asp at that point because if you followed this suggestion, you won't be overloaded with 5-drops. No, I think that's about right.
I think Magma Jet probably better, but I like Sigiled Skink more, though haven't had a chance to play it yet.
I haven't noticed an Ajani's Presence yet, but that seems about in the same spot, even if I like the Oreskos Swiftclaw a bit better (though I'm quite sure I'm overevaluating that one). Ajani's Presence and Cast into Darkness don't really care which bears you end up with.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Obviously early drops are important in this format (and all formats, honestly), but this isn't good advice. If a pack has a 2 drop that's roughly the same power level as a 5 drop, you're correct that you should probably take the 2. It sounds like you're suggesting that you take any playable 1-3 over ANY high drop, which is just plain not right. Did I misunderstand?
But honestly if you've drafted in such a way that you have a ton of lategame and nothing early I could see taking something like Voyaging Satyr or Sedge Scorpion over Nessian Asp or even Arbor Colossus. This is why you should prioritize early drops from the beginning of your draft, so that later you can take the overwhelmingly powerful card instead of having to take something much worse to fill out your curve.
In the first pack of a draft here are 5+ drops I would be happy to take over a strong 2-4 drop:
Dictate of Heliod
Doomwake Giant
Heroes' Bane
Hydra Broodmaster
Hour of Need (This card is really a 5-7 drop)
Whitewater Naiads
Keranos or Ajani
Maybe Revel of the Fallen God. I haven't played with it yet but I hear it's pretty nuts.