The Flashback draft starting Wednesday on MTGO will be Alara block. My only experience with this block has been through gimmick drafts (Pot O' Gold Draft).
So lets discuss any experiences or strategies and benefit from collective knowledge.
I'm assuming 3 color will be a must for this draft. How high do you rate mana fixing? Same level as removal?
Are they using Alara block packs or is it actually just one of each? That makes a big difference in regards to fixing, because if it's not Alara block packs, the tri-color fixing mostly comes in pack 1 (the tri-lands and obelisks), which makes it tough to take them as early as you want. Taking a Bant tri-color land before you have any idea if you're in Bant is rough. If it's Alara block packs, that's better, and then it just comes down to what you have. I'd obviously take a tri-land if I had no fixing at all and was straight up three colors, but if I had a little fixing and no removal, I'm taking removal. You just need a mix, as with all things.
Regardless, you'll almost certainly end up in 3 colors, although it's often possible to mostly be two colors with a splash. You can easily play Naya, for example, as GW with a light red splash for some gold cards/removal.
My strategy in this format was always to go either 2 colors or 5 colors, and not anything in between. The reason is simple: if you're going for 3+ colors, it'll be just as easy to pick up fixing for any color as to find fixing for your particular shard, so you might as well go for all five & reap the rewards from cards like Fusion Elemental. I won't say I'm certain this is the correct strategy, though - this is one of the recent sets I have the least experience with, as I was out travelling for basically the entire duration of this format, and only got back in time for my Nationals.
Anyway, the two color deck is the aggro deck, usually a white deck based around exalted, either blue-white or green-white.
My strategy in this format was always to go either 2 colors or 5 colors, and not anything in between. The reason is simple: if you're going for 3+ colors, it'll be just as easy to pick up fixing for any color as to find fixing for your particular shard, so you might as well go for all five & reap the rewards from cards like Fusion Elemental. I won't say I'm certain this is the correct strategy, though - this is one of the recent sets I have the least experience with, as I was out travelling for basically the entire duration of this format, and only got back in time for my Nationals.
Anyway, the two color deck is the aggro deck, usually a white deck based around exalted, either blue-white or green-white.
I loved 5 color in AAA and AAC, but felt that the threats got far too good by ACR to be durdling around trying to set up your mana.
I never really liked the 2 or 5 color strategy as an absolute. There was enough shard-type fixing that hit exactly three colors that there was often this sweet spot for a proper three-color or three+splash deck that couldn't stretch the mana to five without getting too clunky. Besides, two-color was basically horrible unless you were white, and there were only ever enough playables for about 1.5 white aggro decks per table. I certainly don't walk into ACR draft expecting everyone to be 2+1 or 5 color. I expect a couple of solid 3 and/or 3+1 decks, and I wouldn't necessarily think they would be weaker right off the bat.
I'm glad to be dealing with the proper draft format instead of those block packs with the screwy print runs. In ACR I would typically first pick a triland over non-premium removal like Magma Spray but under premium removal like Branching Bolt.
Some notes for the uninitiated:
1. There are many many many pingers in this format. One toughness creatures need to have ETB effects or awesome abilities to be playable.
2. The Jund cycle of uncommons that grow when stuff dies (Rockslide Elemental and buddies) count as awesome abilities.
4. There are some very expensive tricks in this format too. Try not to eat those either. In particular, the Resounding cycle of commons all turn on at eight mana, so try to not get completely wrecked by them.
5. In pack one, trilands > panoramas > obelisks for fixing. Personally I am not happy to play obelisks in most decks; opinions may differ. If you are trying to draft the five color deck, the rule generally is to pick up fixing in pack one and two and clean up in the very powerful ARB pack.
I'd rather play an Obelisk than a Panorama in any slower deck. I agree that sticking to only 2 or 5 is silly, but obviously 1 is impossible and 4 is terribly ambitious without the added power level that 5 color gives you. Playing three colors is a perfect mix of easy to fix for an powerful.
We've just drafted a couple of cases of Alara block product in our store, and have the following conclusions:
1. You really MUST be in a shard. Ideally one of the colours can be reduced to a splash. If not a shard, 5 colours is fine, but mana fixing has to be a really high pick (usually only 1 or 2 people at the table can be 5 colour).
2. Although I remember BR being ridiculously strong back in the day, any shard can work.
3. Mana fixing (particularly the shardlands like Jungle Shrine and the Alara Reborn Fieldmist Borderpost) is very important. If you are going to get 21 coloured sources (7 for each colour) then 4 of your lands need to tap for more than 1 mana. Obelisks and Panoramas don't really count.
4. Green is a little more forgiving on the mana since it has a couple of extra fixers like the excellent Trace of Abundance
5. Conflux is a putrid power level compared to both Shards and Alara Reborn, so don't worry about not having enough playables after Pack 2. The land cyclers like Fiery Fall are ALL playable.
6. Because everyone needs manafixing, the curve isn't all 2-3 drops like most limited formats. It's ok for your creature curve to start at 3.
We experimented out with drafting them in the modern order (Alara Reborn, Conflux, Shards of Alara) and it was surprising how much *better* ACS was as a format than SCA.
We've just drafted a couple of cases of Alara block product in our store, and have the following conclusions:
1. You really MUST be in a shard. Ideally one of the colours can be reduced to a splash. If not a shard, 5 colours is fine, but mana fixing has to be a really high pick (usually only 1 or 2 people at the table can be 5 colour).
2. Although I remember BR being ridiculously strong back in the day, any shard can work.
3. Mana fixing (particularly the shardlands like Jungle Shrine and the Alara Reborn Fieldmist Borderpost) is very important. If you are going to get 21 coloured sources (7 for each colour) then 4 of your lands need to tap for more than 1 mana. Obelisks and Panoramas don't really count.
4. Green is a little more forgiving on the mana since it has a couple of extra fixers like the excellent Trace of Abundance
5. Conflux is a putrid power level compared to both Shards and Alara Reborn, so don't worry about not having enough playables after Pack 2. The land cyclers like Fiery Fall are ALL playable.
6. Because everyone needs manafixing, the curve isn't all 2-3 drops like most limited formats. It's ok for your creature curve to start at 3.
We experimented out with drafting them in the modern order (Alara Reborn, Conflux, Shards of Alara) and it was surprising how much *better* ACS was as a format than SCA.
6 is not correct. There are two color aggressive decks, and they will steamroll you if you are durdling aroudn trying to fix your mana in the early game.
Compared to a recent BTT draft deck that I critiqued, which glaringly had only 4 two drop creatures. That would be a fine amount in Alara block for most decks.
Everything is relative. A recent 5 colour deck I drafted had triple Trace of Abundance and removal spells as the only two-drops. That was good enough. Maybe the 'skip the two drops' needs to come with the qualifier of 'in a ramp deck'.
Compared to a recent BTT draft deck that I critiqued, which glaringly had only 4 two drop creatures. That would be a fine amount in Alara block for most decks.
Everything is relative. A recent 5 colour deck I drafted had triple Trace of Abundance and removal spells as the only two-drops. That was good enough. Maybe the 'skip the two drops' needs to come with the qualifier of 'in a ramp deck'.
The format has cards that are just as aggressive as BTT. THe removal is better, so decks can weather the storm, but look at the options here:
Arkoan Squire
wild Nacatl
Aven Squire
Qasali Pride Mage
Bant Sureblade
Steward of Valeran
Valeran Outrider
Knight of the Skyward Eye
Naya Hushblade
That is like hte best suite of 1 and two drop common creatures ever for a limited format color pair, and that doesn't even include random dorks like sigil-caste sorcerer, cylian elf, and nacatl savage.
Sigil Blessing is one of the best common pump spells, as is the easily splashable colossal might.
I agree that exalted is an excellent strategy. And the 'blades are pretty good as well. But the aggro gold two drops are deceptively bad because of how hard they are to cast on curve.
I think that the fact that the quality removal, particularly things like pingers and the quality of the fatties makes aggro far less viable than Theros (where it's basically the only game in town).
I agree that exalted is an excellent strategy. And the 'blades are pretty good as well. But the aggro gold two drops are deceptively bad because of how hard they are to cast on curve.
I think that the fact that the quality removal, particularly things like pingers and the quality of the fatties makes aggro far less viable than Theros (where it's basically the only game in town).
Aggro is not the only game in town. But it's veyr good. And those two drops aren't hard to cast on curve because you're playing two colors. Read what Sene said.
I agree more with Merl on this one. Aside from the plentiful spot removal and all the pingers, sweepers are a thing in this format. Your first three turns can easily be borderpost into panorama into infest the aggro deck and win for free. Besides, playing early creatures for curve reasons (intending to block with them) loses pretty hard to exalted. I don't think the format is slow necessarily, but trying to lower the curve of your slow deck by playing mediocre two drops probably isn't going to help against the decks you want it to help against.
I agree more with Merl on this one. Aside from the plentiful spot removal and all the pingers, sweepers are a thing in this format. Your first three turns can easily be borderpost into panorama into infest the aggro deck and win for free. Besides, playing early creatures for curve reasons (intending to block with them) loses pretty hard to exalted. I don't think the format is slow necessarily, but trying to lower the curve of your slow deck by playing mediocre two drops probably isn't going to help against the decks you want it to help against.
All of those two drops mentioned are fantastic, though. I mean I am speaking from experience here, I drafted a lot of Shards block and did very well doing so. Most of the pros of the time were on the same page that in full block, GW aggro was probably the strongest archetype.
Appeals to authority don't exactly go down super well as an argument clincher here. Most of us have played many formats a lot, most of us talk(ed) to pros (of varying quality and experience, I'm sure), most of us form our own opinions and we then go from there. It's just taken as a given round here.
Anyway, I think we misunderstand each other. To clarify: you said that decks that don't have board-affecting plays in the first few turns get eaten by Wx aggro. I disagree with that statement, because it implies that one way to not lose to Wx aggro is to play your own early (and often mediocre) guys in order to block. This is generally incorrect, because exalted destroys you if you try that. What you want to do is to try and get to a situation where your relevant spells trump their whole board, whether those spells are sweepers, pingers, instant speed spot removal, whatever.
I'm perfectly happy to durdle for three turns against a perfect Wx curve if I'm somewhat sure sure my fourth turn Wall of Denial (or whatever) will stabilize me at 10ish. I will still sometimes, often even, lose those games because Wx is a fine deck at most tables. I do not automatically assume a game loss because I went triland panorama obelisk against my opponent's 123 exalted curve.
Tl;dr - I agree that Wx is a fine deck, and will happily chew up decks that don't match up well against it. However, not matching up well against Wx is far less about curve and whether you durdle, and far more about the specific cards in your deck regardless of if they cost <3 or not.
As todumb says, early blockers are weaksauce vs Exalted, which is far and away the best aggro strategy in Alara block. A 2/2 blocker isn't going to do much there, what you need to do to coutner an exalted deck is kill those exalted creatures.
All of those two drops mentioned are fantastic, though.
No, they're not. A gold two drop that only has two power is both hard to cast on curve and an unimpressive threat. Steward of Valeran and Valeran Outrider are not good cards if what you want to do is beat down vs a random opponent. Sometime you'll run them, but that's *very* different from them being 'fantastic'.
Shards is a 3-color format.
Shards-Conflux is a 5-color format.
Shards-Conflux-Reborn is a 2-color format.
You can probably do very well in these flashback drafts just by focusing on a 2-color aggressive deck with 1-2 splashes for really powerful cards, using the Shards fixing if possible. You want to be in a "neighbor" pair:
WU
UB
BR
RG
GW
Because a lot of Alara Reborn hybrid mana cards are castable in neighbor colors but not enemy colors. This helps round out your deck, since the trade off with 2 colors is less access to the general card pool.
Personally I prefer either WU or GW Exalted strategies. Just overwhelm your opponents who are durdling around trying to get Domain mana.
Shards is a 3-color format.
Shards-Conflux is a 5-color format.
Shards-Conflux-Reborn is a 2-color format.
You can probably do very well in these flashback drafts just by focusing on a 2-color aggressive deck with 1-2 splashes for really powerful cards, using the Shards fixing if possible. You want to be in a "neighbor" pair:
WU
UB
BR
RG
GW
Because a lot of Alara Reborn hybrid mana cards are castable in neighbor colors but not enemy colors. This helps round out your deck, since the trade off with 2 colors is less access to the general card pool.
Personally I prefer either WU or GW Exalted strategies. Just overwhelm your opponents who are durdling around trying to get Domain mana.
Yep.
I've played a few drafts, and realized why I don't look back too fondly on this format. I've done okay, but following Time Spiral is really just not a fair thing to ask of any draft format, much less one as mediocre as ACR.
Drafting Alara actually seems more fun than I remember it. Lots of fixing, lots of powerful multicolored creatures, lots of spells that provide card advantage. The tricky part is you tend to lock yourself into a shard early on because you've picked some ridiculously powerful cards in it. Forcing it from then on is always doable (worst case you'll have to splash a fourth color) but you may miss out on the best possible deck for your seat that way. The usual mantra of "stay open" is simply harder to apply when all the power is in the gold cards.
Yep, it's a problem for a format with so few reasonable mono colored cards. Another reason why Rav and Apocalypse are the gold standard for gold sets (zing). Reasonable mono colored cards allow you to stay open.
That's why often the best possible strategy in Shards block is to start by drafting nothing but mana fixing. Just aggressively craft your mana base so that later in the draft when everyone else has locked themselves into particular colors, you're both flexible from a mana perspective and able to scoop up the good, color-demanding cards that slip through the cracks. This is a format where Tri-lands are easy first picks!
I've done 7 Alara 8-4's since yesterday. Both times I got into the finals, I went 5 colors. The other time I went all 5, I got beat by fast Esper in round 2.
The other 4 drafts, I went a 3-color shard deck - naya, esper, grixis, naya - and lost hard either in round 1 or 2.
It just seems to me that 5 color is the way to go, at least in the early parts of the flashback period when no one has figured out aggro yet. Most of the times I got beat when I went one shard was by 5-color, playing all the bombs the player opened. It just seems that against average to above average players in the 8-4's, 5C will have the highest win rate. Maximizing the power level of your deck, because you are playing all the bombs and premium removal you see, seems to trump increasing consistency and speed by going 3 colors, because there just aren't that other drafted decks that can exploit your slow speed.
Of course, it doesn't mean you should just go 5 colors evenly - usually I try to make my 5 color decks basically a 3 color deck plus two splashes. I try to limit it so that 3-4 mana sources are enough for the other 2 colors, and sometimes I only need 2 sources for a Paragon of the Amesha/Dragonsoul Knight pump or an odd Slave of Bolas black mana or something.
Rule of thumb is that if your 5c deck needs more than one basic of your fourth and fifth colors you're probably doing it wrong. Generally one basic should give you four or five sources total in a decent 5c deck.
Yea, agreed, the last 5 color one I just played (got 2nd) had 1 plains and 1 island, but 3-4 sources for each because of rocks and fixers.
Here's a more basic question - what do you guys think is the best shard, if you can only go one shard with no splashes? I'm thinking either Jund or Esper, because both are aggressive and can out-race 5-color. I believe Naya is favored over Jund and possibly Esper, but it's not fast enough to beat 5-color, so I rate it lower.
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So lets discuss any experiences or strategies and benefit from collective knowledge.
I'm assuming 3 color will be a must for this draft. How high do you rate mana fixing? Same level as removal?
Regardless, you'll almost certainly end up in 3 colors, although it's often possible to mostly be two colors with a splash. You can easily play Naya, for example, as GW with a light red splash for some gold cards/removal.
Anyway, the two color deck is the aggro deck, usually a white deck based around exalted, either blue-white or green-white.
I loved 5 color in AAA and AAC, but felt that the threats got far too good by ACR to be durdling around trying to set up your mana.
I'm glad to be dealing with the proper draft format instead of those block packs with the screwy print runs. In ACR I would typically first pick a triland over non-premium removal like Magma Spray but under premium removal like Branching Bolt.
Some notes for the uninitiated:
1. There are many many many pingers in this format. One toughness creatures need to have ETB effects or awesome abilities to be playable.
2. The Jund cycle of uncommons that grow when stuff dies (Rockslide Elemental and buddies) count as awesome abilities.
3. There is a zero mana trick in this format. Try not to eat it.
4. There are some very expensive tricks in this format too. Try not to eat those either. In particular, the Resounding cycle of commons all turn on at eight mana, so try to not get completely wrecked by them.
5. In pack one, trilands > panoramas > obelisks for fixing. Personally I am not happy to play obelisks in most decks; opinions may differ. If you are trying to draft the five color deck, the rule generally is to pick up fixing in pack one and two and clean up in the very powerful ARB pack.
1. You really MUST be in a shard. Ideally one of the colours can be reduced to a splash. If not a shard, 5 colours is fine, but mana fixing has to be a really high pick (usually only 1 or 2 people at the table can be 5 colour).
2. Although I remember BR being ridiculously strong back in the day, any shard can work.
3. Mana fixing (particularly the shardlands like Jungle Shrine and the Alara Reborn Fieldmist Borderpost) is very important. If you are going to get 21 coloured sources (7 for each colour) then 4 of your lands need to tap for more than 1 mana. Obelisks and Panoramas don't really count.
4. Green is a little more forgiving on the mana since it has a couple of extra fixers like the excellent Trace of Abundance
5. Conflux is a putrid power level compared to both Shards and Alara Reborn, so don't worry about not having enough playables after Pack 2. The land cyclers like Fiery Fall are ALL playable.
6. Because everyone needs manafixing, the curve isn't all 2-3 drops like most limited formats. It's ok for your creature curve to start at 3.
We experimented out with drafting them in the modern order (Alara Reborn, Conflux, Shards of Alara) and it was surprising how much *better* ACS was as a format than SCA.
6 is not correct. There are two color aggressive decks, and they will steamroll you if you are durdling aroudn trying to fix your mana in the early game.
Everything is relative. A recent 5 colour deck I drafted had triple Trace of Abundance and removal spells as the only two-drops. That was good enough. Maybe the 'skip the two drops' needs to come with the qualifier of 'in a ramp deck'.
The format has cards that are just as aggressive as BTT. THe removal is better, so decks can weather the storm, but look at the options here:
Arkoan Squire
wild Nacatl
Aven Squire
Qasali Pride Mage
Bant Sureblade
Steward of Valeran
Valeran Outrider
Knight of the Skyward Eye
Naya Hushblade
That is like hte best suite of 1 and two drop common creatures ever for a limited format color pair, and that doesn't even include random dorks like sigil-caste sorcerer, cylian elf, and nacatl savage.
Sigil Blessing is one of the best common pump spells, as is the easily splashable colossal might.
I think that the fact that the quality removal, particularly things like pingers and the quality of the fatties makes aggro far less viable than Theros (where it's basically the only game in town).
Aggro is not the only game in town. But it's veyr good. And those two drops aren't hard to cast on curve because you're playing two colors. Read what Sene said.
All of those two drops mentioned are fantastic, though. I mean I am speaking from experience here, I drafted a lot of Shards block and did very well doing so. Most of the pros of the time were on the same page that in full block, GW aggro was probably the strongest archetype.
Anyway, I think we misunderstand each other. To clarify: you said that decks that don't have board-affecting plays in the first few turns get eaten by Wx aggro. I disagree with that statement, because it implies that one way to not lose to Wx aggro is to play your own early (and often mediocre) guys in order to block. This is generally incorrect, because exalted destroys you if you try that. What you want to do is to try and get to a situation where your relevant spells trump their whole board, whether those spells are sweepers, pingers, instant speed spot removal, whatever.
I'm perfectly happy to durdle for three turns against a perfect Wx curve if I'm somewhat sure sure my fourth turn Wall of Denial (or whatever) will stabilize me at 10ish. I will still sometimes, often even, lose those games because Wx is a fine deck at most tables. I do not automatically assume a game loss because I went triland panorama obelisk against my opponent's 123 exalted curve.
Tl;dr - I agree that Wx is a fine deck, and will happily chew up decks that don't match up well against it. However, not matching up well against Wx is far less about curve and whether you durdle, and far more about the specific cards in your deck regardless of if they cost <3 or not.
No, they're not. A gold two drop that only has two power is both hard to cast on curve and an unimpressive threat. Steward of Valeran and Valeran Outrider are not good cards if what you want to do is beat down vs a random opponent. Sometime you'll run them, but that's *very* different from them being 'fantastic'.
If you're not drafting a heroic deck in Theros block, it's my opinion that you're doing it wrong.
Shards is a 3-color format.
Shards-Conflux is a 5-color format.
Shards-Conflux-Reborn is a 2-color format.
You can probably do very well in these flashback drafts just by focusing on a 2-color aggressive deck with 1-2 splashes for really powerful cards, using the Shards fixing if possible. You want to be in a "neighbor" pair:
WU
UB
BR
RG
GW
Because a lot of Alara Reborn hybrid mana cards are castable in neighbor colors but not enemy colors. This helps round out your deck, since the trade off with 2 colors is less access to the general card pool.
Personally I prefer either WU or GW Exalted strategies. Just overwhelm your opponents who are durdling around trying to get Domain mana.
Yep.
I've played a few drafts, and realized why I don't look back too fondly on this format. I've done okay, but following Time Spiral is really just not a fair thing to ask of any draft format, much less one as mediocre as ACR.
Yep, it's a problem for a format with so few reasonable mono colored cards. Another reason why Rav and Apocalypse are the gold standard for gold sets (zing). Reasonable mono colored cards allow you to stay open.
The other 4 drafts, I went a 3-color shard deck - naya, esper, grixis, naya - and lost hard either in round 1 or 2.
It just seems to me that 5 color is the way to go, at least in the early parts of the flashback period when no one has figured out aggro yet. Most of the times I got beat when I went one shard was by 5-color, playing all the bombs the player opened. It just seems that against average to above average players in the 8-4's, 5C will have the highest win rate. Maximizing the power level of your deck, because you are playing all the bombs and premium removal you see, seems to trump increasing consistency and speed by going 3 colors, because there just aren't that other drafted decks that can exploit your slow speed.
Of course, it doesn't mean you should just go 5 colors evenly - usually I try to make my 5 color decks basically a 3 color deck plus two splashes. I try to limit it so that 3-4 mana sources are enough for the other 2 colors, and sometimes I only need 2 sources for a Paragon of the Amesha/Dragonsoul Knight pump or an odd Slave of Bolas black mana or something.
Here's a more basic question - what do you guys think is the best shard, if you can only go one shard with no splashes? I'm thinking either Jund or Esper, because both are aggressive and can out-race 5-color. I believe Naya is favored over Jund and possibly Esper, but it's not fast enough to beat 5-color, so I rate it lower.