so i just finished another phantom sealed (winning it), and i had TWO people ragequit on me. i don't blame them. having a 6/6 akroan skyguard with mana to protect it with god's willing on turn four is infuriating. next game, a turn two impetuous sunchaser aura'd up with an ordeal caused my match 3 opponent to ragequit on me. (and let's not get into how rage-inducing this can be when i open cards like anex and cymede, ornitharch, and much removal).
and what do you know, today there is a new (official) spoiler on reddit:
===
Iroas, God of Victory {2}{R}{W}
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red and white is less than seven, Iroas isn't a creature.
Creatures you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to attacking creatures you control.
7/4
===
(http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/22eikg/introducing_iroas_god_of_victory/)
and i'm thinking "man, wizards REALLY LIKES to push aggro).
and i know the God is a mythic and stuff, and so its impact on limited shouldn't be too high, but on the other hand, the non-aggro mythics don't seem to have as much "auto-win" factor as this one will in limited, do they?
as you probably can tell, i'm not a fan of aggro. i know it has its fans, though, so that's fair.
but ever since Gatecrash's prerelease with it's CRAZY good pre-seeded Boros packs [full of commons that were amazing] and Dimir's ABYSMAL pre-seeded packs [these are pre-seeded packs! if you accidentally developed Dimir to be terrible, here's a chance to correct that, at least for the pre-release!!!], i'm just getting sick of this feeling that Wizards likes to push swingy aggro strategies.
i remember in Gatecrash, i never had fun winning with (or losing to) a one-drop enchanted with Madcap Skills. i don't have much fun winning with favored hoplite or akroan crusader + enablers. it all feels like "oh, do you have removal/bounce? no? good game. lets see if i draw stupidly next game as well".
how much of my perception is based in reality, that wizards seems to want to push swingy aggro? is the emotional let-down of games ending on what feels like turn 5 or 6 clouding my perception?
Theros is a block where aggro is really pushed because of the flagship mechanics and watered down removal, much like Zendikar and Avacyn Restored were. The next block will be a swing back to normalcy.
Also I still think Phenax is more ridiculous than Iroas will be. I've never pulled one, but I don't think I've ever won a game where one has resolved against me.
I'm not sure any deck with Iroas wouldn't be improved by replacing that Iroas with, say, a Dauntless Onslaught.
I think the new 1/1 red heroic guy is much more concerning.
I expect much raging due to this god. Gotta be one of the best cards to have in your limited deck this block, no? The one mitigating factor is that the person who opens him may be cut from red or white (esp white, since it's so popular), so it won't be drafted into the correct deck a lot of the time.
Probably better than it being in pack 3, as good drafters won't hate draft early picks, and if it were in pack 3, Iroas may often get passed to the RW drafter.
It's great if you are ahead since your opponent can't stabilize with blockers. It does nothing if you are behind or racing (unless it becomes active). Even though RW is usually ahead in the early that's hardly always the case. All it takes is one Sudden Storm and you're wishing that your 4 drop actually did something.
So it's pretty strong, but requires a specific deck, much like Phenax. It's similar to Gruul War Chant, which everyone on this forum was excited for but didn't turn out to be that great.
We have only seen about 1/3 of the new set but I don't think WR will be as dominate as it was in triple Theros and BTT. For one you won't be seeing that many ordeals with only one pack of Theros so the turn 2 ordeal plan won't happen as often. White got a lot of its power from Theros as well. Now with only one pack you need to lean on Red more and it was bad in Theros. It did make up ground in Born of the Gods but seems subpar in Journey so far.
We have only seen about 1/3 of the new set but I don't think WR will be as dominate as it was in triple Theros and BTT. For one you won't be seeing that many ordeals with only one pack of Theros so the turn 2 ordeal plan won't happen as often. White got a lot of its power from Theros as well. Now with only one pack you need to lean on Red more and it was bad in Theros. It did make up ground in Born of the Gods but seems subpar in Journey so far.
Not sure how you come to that conclusion. We've seen 1 red common and it is fantastic in this deck...
Theros is a block where aggro is really pushed because of the flagship mechanics and watered down removal, much like Zendikar and Avacyn Restored were. The next block will be a swing back to normalcy.
Sounds like Innistrad. And Gatecrash. And RTR.
Removal sucks now (common removal at least). Creatures are great. Aura's are great. Combat tricks are great. It's a recipe for repeated poor limited formats. This is the new normal. Sets like M14 that are slower are very much abnormal now.
It's great if you are ahead since your opponent can't stabilize with blockers. It does nothing if you are behind or racing (unless it becomes active). Even though RW is usually ahead in the early that's hardly always the case. All it takes is one Sudden Storm and you're wishing that your 4 drop actually did something.
So it's pretty strong, but requires a specific deck, much like Phenax. It's similar to Gruul War Chant, which everyone on this forum was excited for but didn't turn out to be that great.
True, it's not a good card when you're on the back foot, but as you alluded to, RW is the most aggro-y of aggro colors in this block (perhaps tied with BR). This thing allows them to keep racing with impunity, and RW will be the color combo that most wants that to happen. Thus I think it's far closer to Phenax's power level in UB than Gruul War Chant was in GR (which was still pretty good all things considered).
That being said, I'd still rather have Elspeth in my pool
Last night, I played in a swiss draft and all three of my opponents played WU. All three had great decks. All three had crazy combos. First round my opp plays daxos of meletis into eidolon of countless battles. (Yeah, that's not borkened.) Second round opponent got favorite hoplite into ordeal of heliod into sunbound. Twice. (He claimed to have two of each. in a field of at least three WU drafters. Go figure.) My last round opponent merely had wingsteed rider into hopeful eidolon. (I actually won that round when he failed to play his stratus walk correctly in the last game. No wonder he achieved the dubious record of going 0-2 with WU aggro.)
(I actually won that round when he failed to play his stratus walk correctly in the last game. No wonder he achieved the dubious record of going 0-2 with WU aggro.)
The fact that he was running 2x Sunbond might have been a clue.
(I actually won that round when he failed to play his stratus walk correctly in the last game. No wonder he achieved the dubious record of going 0-2 with WU aggro.)
The fact that he was running 2x Sunbond might have been a clue.
To be fair, those were two different players. But yes, nothing justifies running Sunbond.
He justified it by saying he had drafted two oreskos sun guide so it was totally worth it. He did beat me up with 15/16 and a 18/19. It's still a bit vexing to lose to the combo, no matter how awesome it gets. (Of course, I didn't have removal nor my gorgons. In fact, I didn't draw my gorgon in any of the 8 games I played.)
I mean to say that nothing legitimately justifies it. An entire deck of Sun Guides still shouldn't run it. It's still a four mana sorcery that does nothing until the next turn in that situation... if you managed to successfully attack with 2/2s without them dying on turn 4 or later with a dead card in hand/on the board and not have the creature removed as a 2 for 1. Even then, you get 2-4 counters for a four mana enchantment on one guy. Woohoo. Him lucking into an opponent with no removal doesn't make it justifiable.
RW is kind of a dream deck in THS block draft. It rarely comes together. When it does, it rocks. I like Iroas. But the number of times someone first picks Iroas, clings to it, and 0-1's the draft will vastly outweigh the number of times that it steals games. I don't think it's overpowered particularly.
RW is one of the riskiest archetypes to try to go into. It's far less likely to come through for you than, say, UW. You really need to draft amazingly well to position yourself better than UW heroic if you're drafting red cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
so i just finished another phantom sealed (winning it), and i had TWO people ragequit on me. i don't blame them. having a 6/6 akroan skyguard with mana to protect it with god's willing on turn four is infuriating. next game, a turn two impetuous sunchaser aura'd up with an ordeal caused my match 3 opponent to ragequit on me. (and let's not get into how rage-inducing this can be when i open cards like anex and cymede, ornitharch, and much removal).
and what do you know, today there is a new (official) spoiler on reddit:
===
Iroas, God of Victory {2}{R}{W}
Legendary Enchantment Creature - God
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to red and white is less than seven, Iroas isn't a creature.
Creatures you control can't be blocked except by two or more creatures.
Prevent all damage that would be dealt to attacking creatures you control.
7/4
===
(http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/22eikg/introducing_iroas_god_of_victory/)
and i'm thinking "man, wizards REALLY LIKES to push aggro).
and i know the God is a mythic and stuff, and so its impact on limited shouldn't be too high, but on the other hand, the non-aggro mythics don't seem to have as much "auto-win" factor as this one will in limited, do they?
as you probably can tell, i'm not a fan of aggro. i know it has its fans, though, so that's fair.
but ever since Gatecrash's prerelease with it's CRAZY good pre-seeded Boros packs [full of commons that were amazing] and Dimir's ABYSMAL pre-seeded packs [these are pre-seeded packs! if you accidentally developed Dimir to be terrible, here's a chance to correct that, at least for the pre-release!!!], i'm just getting sick of this feeling that Wizards likes to push swingy aggro strategies.
i remember in Gatecrash, i never had fun winning with (or losing to) a one-drop enchanted with Madcap Skills. i don't have much fun winning with favored hoplite or akroan crusader + enablers. it all feels like "oh, do you have removal/bounce? no? good game. lets see if i draw stupidly next game as well".
how much of my perception is based in reality, that wizards seems to want to push swingy aggro? is the emotional let-down of games ending on what feels like turn 5 or 6 clouding my perception?
Goblins have poor impulse control. Don't click this link!!
some of my favourite flavour text:
Wayward Soul
"no home no heart no hope"
—Stronghold graffito
Raging Goblin
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
I'm not sure any deck with Iroas wouldn't be improved by replacing that Iroas with, say, a Dauntless Onslaught.
I think the new 1/1 red heroic guy is much more concerning.
Probably better than it being in pack 3, as good drafters won't hate draft early picks, and if it were in pack 3, Iroas may often get passed to the RW drafter.
So it's pretty strong, but requires a specific deck, much like Phenax. It's similar to Gruul War Chant, which everyone on this forum was excited for but didn't turn out to be that great.
Not sure how you come to that conclusion. We've seen 1 red common and it is fantastic in this deck...
Sounds like Innistrad. And Gatecrash. And RTR.
Removal sucks now (common removal at least). Creatures are great. Aura's are great. Combat tricks are great. It's a recipe for repeated poor limited formats. This is the new normal. Sets like M14 that are slower are very much abnormal now.
True, it's not a good card when you're on the back foot, but as you alluded to, RW is the most aggro-y of aggro colors in this block (perhaps tied with BR). This thing allows them to keep racing with impunity, and RW will be the color combo that most wants that to happen. Thus I think it's far closer to Phenax's power level in UB than Gruul War Chant was in GR (which was still pretty good all things considered).
That being said, I'd still rather have Elspeth in my pool
Last night, I played in a swiss draft and all three of my opponents played WU. All three had great decks. All three had crazy combos. First round my opp plays daxos of meletis into eidolon of countless battles. (Yeah, that's not borkened.) Second round opponent got favorite hoplite into ordeal of heliod into sunbound. Twice. (He claimed to have two of each. in a field of at least three WU drafters. Go figure.) My last round opponent merely had wingsteed rider into hopeful eidolon. (I actually won that round when he failed to play his stratus walk correctly in the last game. No wonder he achieved the dubious record of going 0-2 with WU aggro.)
The fact that he was running 2x Sunbond might have been a clue.
To be fair, those were two different players. But yes, nothing justifies running Sunbond.
Not that having the effect be explicit isn't infuriating, but honestly unless the format slows way down I don't think he really matters.
RW is one of the riskiest archetypes to try to go into. It's far less likely to come through for you than, say, UW. You really need to draft amazingly well to position yourself better than UW heroic if you're drafting red cards.