Had we taken Vaporkin last pack, there would have been a discussion to be had. Given that we didn't, I will easily vote for the first Vaporkin here given our current position.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
@magicmerl (Sorry, when the posts get all split up like that it's hard to properly quote, so I'll just reply all at once like this).
It's really interesting to me to see the difference between our drafting styles. I'm very much against forcing archetypes, either for or against. There are exceptions of course; for example, I wouldn't draft white in M14 or a non-supported guild in RTR/GTC. However, I think it's incorrect to enter a draft with the philosophy that I'm going to completely avoid an archetype simply because its ceiling is lower than the ceiling of other archetypes. While I agree with the assertion that UR decks are underpowered compared to other decks in this format, that doesn't mean that I think it's correct to avoid the combination at all costs. I've drafted it much less than others for the reasons you've mentioned, but when I fall into it, it's been correct to do so (according to the personal stats I track at least).
(And for what it's worth, if I had been passed these packs, I would have likely ended up UG, not UR. I'd need to go back and re-read them all to be certain, but based on memory, that's my best guess.)
The latest Limited Resources episode was really interesting to me, because Brian articulated the way I draft very succinctly. In his words: I rarely end a draft with the best deck at the table. I almost always end a draft with the 2nd/3rd best deck at the table, which means that I'm competitive to win every draft I play in. Forcing (for or against) is the easiest way to end up with a train wreck (IMO).
I think it depends on what your definitions of 'forcing' is.
I basically look at each draft as if I am a sculptor and I have a block of stone in front of me. Each pick is chipping away something and byt he end of the draft I have a statue. Will it be an elephant I carve? Will it be a warrior?
In the same way, the picks determine whether it's possible to draft a white heroic or black control deck. But each pick in and of itself just provides a hint towards what will make the best possible statue/deck for this particular set of choices.
You're right that forcing increases your variance. (Although a tiny competitive part of me says that 2-1 is 'lose' just as much as 0-3 is)
I think it depends on what your definitions of 'forcing' is.
I basically look at each draft as if I am a sculptor and I have a block of stone in front of me. Each pick is chipping away something and byt he end of the draft I have a statue. Will it be an elephant I carve? Will it be a warrior?
In the same way, the picks determine whether it's possible to draft a white heroic or black control deck. But each pick in and of itself just provides a hint towards what will make the best possible statue/deck for this particular set of choices.
You're right that forcing increases your variance. (Although a tiny competitive part of me says that 2-1 is 'lose' just as much as 0-3 is)
Well sure, I think of the draft similarly. But you seemed to intimate that you would avoid drafting UR at all costs, and I don't believe the archetype is so bad that you need to do that, which is all I was getting at.
Regarding 2-1 vs 0-3; well, that's the eternal debate, isn't it? Is sustained performance in terms of overall match win% more important than pod win%? If you judge success by financial reward (prize payouts) and you're playing MTGO 8-4s, then you'll certainly develop a different drafting style than the guy who judges success by consistent performance and plays Swiss. But that's really a topic for a separate thread.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Well sure, I think of the draft similarly. But you seemed to intimate that you would avoid drafting UR at all costs, and I don't believe the archetype is so bad that you need to do that, which is all I was getting at.
Well fair enough, maybe I'm wrong in my condemnation of UR. What do you think are the components of a successful UR deck then?
I assume that it's a control deck, based on removal, tricks and evasion? Is it unfair to characterise it as a sub-par UB deck?
Well fair enough, maybe I'm wrong in my condemnation of UR. What do you think are the components of a successful UR deck then?
I assume that it's a control deck, based on removal, tricks and evasion? Is it unfair to characterise it as a sub-par UB deck?
UB is a control deck. The successful UR decks I've had have not been what I would classify as control decks; they have been aggressive and very tempo oriented (Sudden Storm is going to be very, very good in this deck, especially with two five-power attackers). When I've won with UR, I've done it by racing (hence my vote for Vaporkin last pack; I've drafted five Vaporkins in a UR deck before and was never unhappy about it) behind the key timing of removal and bounce spells.
The thing of course about tempo decks is that if they draw the wrong half of their deck, they can behave like a bad aggro deck or a bad control deck. It's challenging to end up with just the right percentage of spells, and because you're looking for a critical mass of certain types of spells, you aren't going to ever see a card that pushes you to want to be UR in this set. That's why it's an archetype you fall into rather than jump into - it's only worth being in when it's open because you're more likely to get the cards you need.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
5.) Blue/red is easily the worst color combination in BTT draft. There's no synergy, no good gold cards, no devotion or heroic synergies to build around, and it rarely wins. Avoid it if possible. However, if you do end up in this color combination, then try to assemble the combo of Flamespeaker Adept plus Stormcaller of Keranos. It is quite powerful in the late game.
We are so off topic, but I'll just leave with this: No, there are no real synergies in a UR deck to abuse. A good UR deck is just a pile of good UR cards. It turns out that if two colors are open for your seat, those cards will be very good. To assume that a combination is completely unplayable is to mean that you will never end up with that deck, even if it was the most open for you in that draft. There are formats where this is correct; where the best version of a given deck is worse than a mediocre version of another (like trying to draft off-guild in RTR or GTC). Based on my experience, I genuinely do not believe this to be the case in this format.
Again, I would never actively attempt to be UR (and as I've said, this draft would not have pushed me personally into UR). But I'm willing to draft it if it's what's open for me, and I've seen above-average success with it, indicating to me that it was correct for me to fall into it in those drafts. Also, for what it's worth, I've only done it once since Born of the Gods came out and red became more popular; I went 2-1 in that particular draft. I don't think it'll be correct to fall into it as often anymore because red is in higher demand than it used to be.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Even more off topic: I never agreed (and still don't) that drafting off guild was bad in the Rav blocks. I distinctly remember a draft where the drafter refused to go WG (a color that wasn't supported at the time) when it was being passed to him (and I mean nut draw bomb cards). It was sad.
And so this isn't completely off topic: I vote Vaporkin. My only regret is that we don't have two Vaporkin/a vaporkin and an ordeal at this point.
The only card that I can think of whose value goes way up in specifically UR decks is Meletis Charlatan, because UR is the only deck which always has enough relevant (and often very powerful) targets. Other than that your aim in UR is generally just to have better cards than the other guy, and to play around Gods Willing as hard as possible - mostly a good UR deck will have creatures, cards that target the opponent's creatures, and no other cards. There's no real proactive strategy.
I think the synergy in U/R is "use blue to tap/bounce things out of the way and/or give evasion (flying, aqueous form), then beat down with high-power red creatures and stuff with dragon-mantle on it" Red can use its removal to help with clearing the way too of course.
The more I think about it the more I'm thinking maybe Vaporkin was the pick over the Emissary, but I'm not totally sure - Emissary is just so good - but I think it is much much closer than my initial reaction.
1 Sudden Storm
1 Servant of Tymaret
1 Nyxborn Wolf
1 Retraction Helix
1 Fall of the Hammer
1 Oracle's Insight
1 Kragma Butcher
1 Stormcaller of Keranos
1 Cyclops of One-Eyed Pass
1 Reckless Reveler
1 Mortal's Resolve
1 Culling Mark
1 Cyclops of One-Eyed Pass
1 Setessan Starbreaker
1 Dragon Mantle
1 Thassa's Emissary
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Vaporkin me.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
I think it depends on what your definitions of 'forcing' is.
I basically look at each draft as if I am a sculptor and I have a block of stone in front of me. Each pick is chipping away something and byt he end of the draft I have a statue. Will it be an elephant I carve? Will it be a warrior?
In the same way, the picks determine whether it's possible to draft a white heroic or black control deck. But each pick in and of itself just provides a hint towards what will make the best possible statue/deck for this particular set of choices.
You're right that forcing increases your variance. (Although a tiny competitive part of me says that 2-1 is 'lose' just as much as 0-3 is)
Well sure, I think of the draft similarly. But you seemed to intimate that you would avoid drafting UR at all costs, and I don't believe the archetype is so bad that you need to do that, which is all I was getting at.
Regarding 2-1 vs 0-3; well, that's the eternal debate, isn't it? Is sustained performance in terms of overall match win% more important than pod win%? If you judge success by financial reward (prize payouts) and you're playing MTGO 8-4s, then you'll certainly develop a different drafting style than the guy who judges success by consistent performance and plays Swiss. But that's really a topic for a separate thread.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Well fair enough, maybe I'm wrong in my condemnation of UR. What do you think are the components of a successful UR deck then?
I assume that it's a control deck, based on removal, tricks and evasion? Is it unfair to characterise it as a sub-par UB deck?
UB is a control deck. The successful UR decks I've had have not been what I would classify as control decks; they have been aggressive and very tempo oriented (Sudden Storm is going to be very, very good in this deck, especially with two five-power attackers). When I've won with UR, I've done it by racing (hence my vote for Vaporkin last pack; I've drafted five Vaporkins in a UR deck before and was never unhappy about it) behind the key timing of removal and bounce spells.
The thing of course about tempo decks is that if they draw the wrong half of their deck, they can behave like a bad aggro deck or a bad control deck. It's challenging to end up with just the right percentage of spells, and because you're looking for a critical mass of certain types of spells, you aren't going to ever see a card that pushes you to want to be UR in this set. That's why it's an archetype you fall into rather than jump into - it's only worth being in when it's open because you're more likely to get the cards you need.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
I guess other synergies would be Nimbus Naiad / Aqueous Form to go with the multiple Cyclops of One-Eyed Pass
Again, I would never actively attempt to be UR (and as I've said, this draft would not have pushed me personally into UR). But I'm willing to draft it if it's what's open for me, and I've seen above-average success with it, indicating to me that it was correct for me to fall into it in those drafts. Also, for what it's worth, I've only done it once since Born of the Gods came out and red became more popular; I went 2-1 in that particular draft. I don't think it'll be correct to fall into it as often anymore because red is in higher demand than it used to be.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Even more off topic: I never agreed (and still don't) that drafting off guild was bad in the Rav blocks. I distinctly remember a draft where the drafter refused to go WG (a color that wasn't supported at the time) when it was being passed to him (and I mean nut draw bomb cards). It was sad.
And so this isn't completely off topic: I vote Vaporkin. My only regret is that we don't have two Vaporkin/a vaporkin and an ordeal at this point.
The more I think about it the more I'm thinking maybe Vaporkin was the pick over the Emissary, but I'm not totally sure - Emissary is just so good - but I think it is much much closer than my initial reaction.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG