Seems like the question is how committed to red are we. Stormcaller is pretty great. If we'd rather stay open, Nullify is quite good and obviously a good signal that blue should be open (but we're pretty solidly in blue now anyway). The fact that there are still 3 red cards in the pack (one being a playable if unexciting 2-drop and one being a decent sideboard card) makes me feel pretty good about red being open.
I'm going to say Stormcaller or Keranos, but given that I've changed my early pick like twice already, watch this space for vacillation.
Best card in the pack is Nullify. Whether we're committed to red or not, we're very likely to be in blue, and the blue card in the pack is better than the red cards.
Stormcaller is both seriously unimpressive even if you are U/R and 99% not to make the deck if we don't end up in U/R, whereas I don't see myself ever cutting a Nullify. I wish I could Nullify a lot of these wasted votes.
I am under no illusions about the power level of Stormcaller, but I'm not ever really happy to play Nullify. The UU cost is very telegraphed, and as I've said before the cards that I really want to counter in a lot of matchups are the combat tricks. In addition to that, UR always has problems with too many spells and not enough guys. I'm perfectly happy with my Goblin Chariot here.
Stormcaller is both seriously unimpressive even if you are U/R and 99% not to make the deck if we don't end up in U/R, whereas I don't see myself ever cutting a Nullify. I wish I could Nullify a lot of these wasted votes.
Wow, really? I've only gotten to play Stormcaller twice, but both times it was hugely important. I've cut Nullify multiple times from blue decks - I would never cut Stormcaller from UR, and I would even consider splashing red for it.
I'm really not. Scry as a mana sink is incredibly good. The thing that is most awkward about the card is that it is red really, since you're usually not in a control deck with red, but splashed into a decent black blue deck if I get to turn 6 or 7 with this thing and a relatively stable board its nearly impossible to lose.
Stormcaller is a weird card... its ability is good, but doesn't fit in the same decks as its body. It's sort of a 2/2 haste OR :1mana::symu::Scry. I'm taking Nullify, because, as rujasu said, we're almost certainly in blue.
Look like this: In red, playing Stormcaller, probably still playing Nullify.
Not in blue: Not playing Nullify, not playing Stormcaller.
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Not sarcastic or rhetorical- what decks? I can see an aggro deck with a lot of burn that may get stalled and need to dig for the final bolt, but otherwise it seems like two mediocre cards, and not modal like Nyxborn Whatever. I don't hate the card by any means, but I've yet to find a deck that made good use of both aspects of the card. Nullify, on the other hand, will always be cast quite gladly, whether for tempo or value.. there aren't many scenarios in which I cut the first Nullify.
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Not sarcastic or rhetorical- what decks? I can see an aggro deck with a lot of burn that may get stalled and need to dig for the final bolt, but otherwise it seems like two mediocre cards, and not modal like Nyxborn Whatever. I don't hate the card by any means, but I've yet to find a deck that made good use of both aspects of the card. Nullify, on the other hand, will always be cast quite gladly, whether for tempo or value.. there aren't many scenarios in which I cut the first Nullify.
2 mana repeatable scry is not a mediocre ability. If it is the cards' only function, well, y'know, Witches Eye.
EDIT: While I realize there is a body attached, that's my point: this is not a body that goes with that ability. Either a 2/2 haste is good, or a mana sink for digging is good (clearly there are cases where both will be good, but they are uncommon.) If Omenspeaker had repeatable scry instead, it would be nuts. If Stormcaller was an 0/4, it would be great. As is, I find it's one or the other and in neither case great for its role (three mana for a 2/2 in aggro? Curve filler. A 2/2 ground body in control? Can't block worth a turd.)
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2 mana repeatable scry is not a mediocre ability. If it is the cards' only function, well, y'know, Witches Eye.
EDIT: While I realize there is a body attached, that's my point: this is not a body that goes with that ability. Either a 2/2 haste is good, or a mana sink for digging is good (clearly there are cases where both will be good, but they are uncommon.) If Omenspeaker had repeatable scry instead, it would be nuts. If Stormcaller was an 0/4, it would be great. As is, I find it's one or the other and in neither case great for its role (three mana for a 2/2 in aggro? Curve filler. A 2/2 ground body in control? Can't block worth a turd.)
In addition to basically rendering a creature unable to attack, Witch's Eye also only scrys once per turn. Being able to scry 2 or 3 times with your excess mana is a vast improvement.
The 2/2 haste body is kinda weird, but I think the fact that he's a creature who can attack, block, get bestowed on, etc is more important than his exact power and toughness. It's not like he's a 1/1.
In addition to basically rendering a creature unable to attack, Witch's Eye also only scrys once per turn. Being able to scry 2 or 3 times with your excess mana is a vast improvement.
The 2/2 haste body is kinda weird, but I think the fact that he's a creature who can attack, block, get bestowed on, etc is more important than his exact power and toughness. It's not like he's a 1/1.
Very good points. I would also point out that not only does Witch's Eye only scry once while tying up a creature on battlefield, it's also taking a slot in your deck away from something more relevant. The comparison isn't even close.
In many ways, I actually don't see this in my curve as a three drop (although if I have nothing better to do with my turn I'll certainly run it out there). Not only is she unremarkable as a 2/2 body for 3 mana, but if I'm executing my gameplan I probably don't have spare mana to be spending on turns 4 and 5 to scry. However, if the game goes long, she becomes a real threat. My opponent has to either spend removal on it, or play a game where he's at the mercy of his topdecks and I'm not. So this is a card that I slide into my gameplan when I find the mana for it; I'm not just jamming it on turn three in most cases.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
It also is a great topdeck provided you aren't going to lose like the very next turn (and even if you are you might be able to play him, scry a couple times to find an answer to whatever is killing you, and then chump block with him). If you're at parity and you topdeck him he's insanely great.
Let's just be clear here; obviously Stormcaller is better than Witches' Eye. We don't need to debate that. I was merely pointing out that a card dedicated to a vaguely comparable effect is considered unpickable, let alone unplayable.
I don't consider her a great topdeck. She's not a useless topdeck, but spending a turn to maximize your chances of drawing something relevant next turn is not "insanely great." Having the option to do so is very good when it comes up, but is she really a better topdeck than a decent Bestow creature or mediocre removal? I don't believe so.
I sort of like Stormcaller (I love Izzet and mana sinks) but I think she's a trap to some degree. It's easy to think she's doing a great job (hey, let's scry again!) when in reality doesn't live up to much opportunity cost (aggro would rather play Minotaur Skullcleaver, control would rather play Nullify, midrange would rather play a bestow feller.) It's also important to keep in mind that two mana, while manageable, is not negligible; if you're not using your mana, your opponent probably is.
Of course, I could be wrong.
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If we were looking at second or third pick and talking about this card, I would agree with the "trap" assessment, but this is pick nine and we're already trending towards UR as a very real possibility. I don't think it can be a "trap" to take an on-color card with a relevant effect. If there was ever a time in the draft that you would happily take a Stormcaller, it's here.
As to my personal experience: I've only played with this card once, and it was fantastic. I drew business, while my opponent bricked half the time; in a drawn-out game, that's almost as good as drawing cards. I do think it generally gets taken too highly - I've only ever once seen it at a position in the draft that I was willing to take it while it was in my colors. This would be one of those positions.
Regarding the comment about splashing red for it above: in the same way that I will occasionally splash Scholar of Athreos in my grindy black decks, I believe there's a place where I would splash Stormcaller in a grindy blue deck (although I haven't been presented with that opportunity yet). The same concept applies: I'll consider splashing the off-color casting cost for an on-color activated ability that gives me advantage in a long game.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
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I'm going to say Stormcaller or Keranos, but given that I've changed my early pick like twice already, watch this space for vacillation.
Stormcaller of Keranos
Wow, really? I've only gotten to play Stormcaller twice, but both times it was hugely important. I've cut Nullify multiple times from blue decks - I would never cut Stormcaller from UR, and I would even consider splashing red for it.
Well now you're just being ridiculous.
I'm really not. Scry as a mana sink is incredibly good. The thing that is most awkward about the card is that it is red really, since you're usually not in a control deck with red, but splashed into a decent black blue deck if I get to turn 6 or 7 with this thing and a relatively stable board its nearly impossible to lose.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Look like this: In red, playing Stormcaller, probably still playing Nullify.
Not in blue: Not playing Nullify, not playing Stormcaller.
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2 mana repeatable scry is not a 'mediocre card'.
EDIT: While I realize there is a body attached, that's my point: this is not a body that goes with that ability. Either a 2/2 haste is good, or a mana sink for digging is good (clearly there are cases where both will be good, but they are uncommon.) If Omenspeaker had repeatable scry instead, it would be nuts. If Stormcaller was an 0/4, it would be great. As is, I find it's one or the other and in neither case great for its role (three mana for a 2/2 in aggro? Curve filler. A 2/2 ground body in control? Can't block worth a turd.)
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
In addition to basically rendering a creature unable to attack, Witch's Eye also only scrys once per turn. Being able to scry 2 or 3 times with your excess mana is a vast improvement.
The 2/2 haste body is kinda weird, but I think the fact that he's a creature who can attack, block, get bestowed on, etc is more important than his exact power and toughness. It's not like he's a 1/1.
Thank you for your excellent and intellectually stimulating contribution to this discussion.
Very good points. I would also point out that not only does Witch's Eye only scry once while tying up a creature on battlefield, it's also taking a slot in your deck away from something more relevant. The comparison isn't even close.
In many ways, I actually don't see this in my curve as a three drop (although if I have nothing better to do with my turn I'll certainly run it out there). Not only is she unremarkable as a 2/2 body for 3 mana, but if I'm executing my gameplan I probably don't have spare mana to be spending on turns 4 and 5 to scry. However, if the game goes long, she becomes a real threat. My opponent has to either spend removal on it, or play a game where he's at the mercy of his topdecks and I'm not. So this is a card that I slide into my gameplan when I find the mana for it; I'm not just jamming it on turn three in most cases.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Edit: *she.
I don't consider her a great topdeck. She's not a useless topdeck, but spending a turn to maximize your chances of drawing something relevant next turn is not "insanely great." Having the option to do so is very good when it comes up, but is she really a better topdeck than a decent Bestow creature or mediocre removal? I don't believe so.
I sort of like Stormcaller (I love Izzet and mana sinks) but I think she's a trap to some degree. It's easy to think she's doing a great job (hey, let's scry again!) when in reality doesn't live up to much opportunity cost (aggro would rather play Minotaur Skullcleaver, control would rather play Nullify, midrange would rather play a bestow feller.) It's also important to keep in mind that two mana, while manageable, is not negligible; if you're not using your mana, your opponent probably is.
Of course, I could be wrong.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
As to my personal experience: I've only played with this card once, and it was fantastic. I drew business, while my opponent bricked half the time; in a drawn-out game, that's almost as good as drawing cards. I do think it generally gets taken too highly - I've only ever once seen it at a position in the draft that I was willing to take it while it was in my colors. This would be one of those positions.
Regarding the comment about splashing red for it above: in the same way that I will occasionally splash Scholar of Athreos in my grindy black decks, I believe there's a place where I would splash Stormcaller in a grindy blue deck (although I haven't been presented with that opportunity yet). The same concept applies: I'll consider splashing the off-color casting cost for an on-color activated ability that gives me advantage in a long game.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.