Unlike the last pack, Pheres-Band Tromper seems like the obvious pick here over some sideboard stuff. Deepwater Hypnotist is worth considering since we're heavier into blue, but I'm really not a fan of that card. It's a good play on turn 2 in an aggressive deck, but it loses value very quickly after that. It does go into both UG and UR, but it's probably never going to be a card I'm happy to run. Tromper is a solid playable. Not exciting, but at least average
The problem with Oracle's Insight is that it works best in a controlling deck. UB is the best control archetype for blue, and while you can build other color combinations to be controlling, they tend to work better as tempo decks. Additionally, I find that tempo decks are better suited in this format than control decks. Tromper is the pick, I think, because it'll match up closer with what we want to do in the format.
Additionally, I feel like Oracle's Insight is something of a luxury that you can pick up when you have a control deck that's coming together nicely. In this draft, we've had a couple weak packs and some difficult signals... not enough to freak out and declare a train wreck (though knowing forum drafts, I'm sure someone out there won't let that stop them ), but enough that we should focus on picking up consistent playables (like decent creatures) in our likely colors over specialty cards.
In other words, you get a certain number of "luxury" picks in a draft. You can spend them on speculative cards that (like Oracle's Insight) are good in very specific decks, and you can spend them on staying open and searching for your colors. We've spent some picks on the latter; if we move away from blue (as is entirely possible), we'll have spent quite a few picks that way.
I think we were right to do so, but we need to be mindful that we don't have a ton of luxury picks left to work with, and we may need to spend more if we remain unsure of our main colors much longer.
Oracle's Insight is the best card by far. I'm ignoring any argument against taking the best card. It's even in the color in which we have the most cards picked so far. Sometimes I really don't understand these forum drafts.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
I refuse to believe that Oracle's Insight is the best card here. Highest upside? Sure. But it's a card you shouldn't be playing in every single blue deck, and when you play it you should side it out in a number of matchups. It is a slooow card.
Edit: I feel like some voters are looking at our card pool and ignoring the sequence in which we've gotten those cards. 2 of our 3 blue cards were p1 and p2, before we had any idea what was open, and our best blue card was taken completely in the dark (i.e., p1p1). We may end up blue, but any sensible analysis of the cards we've been passed would conclude that we have better odds of being green than blue. We should be prioritizing green over blue, and Tromper is the best card in the pack.
I refuse to believe that Oracle's Insight is the best card here. Highest upside? Sure. But it's a card you shouldn't be playing in every single blue deck, and when you play it you should side it out in a number of matchups. It is a slooow card.
Edit: I feel like some voters are looking at our card pool and ignoring the sequence in which we've gotten those cards. 2 of our 3 blue cards were p1 and p2, before we had any idea what was open, and our best blue card was taken completely in the dark (i.e., p1p1). We may end up blue, but any sensible analysis of the cards we've been passed would conclude that we have better odds of being green than blue. We should be prioritizing green over blue, and Tromper is the best card in the pack.
We'll just have to disagree about both those statements then. I can't imagine not playing Insight - even in aggro it's good because it triggers Heroic and replaces itself, and when it sticks it wins the game. Considering how hard it is to kill creatures in this format, that's a good place to be.
And I say our best blue card was pick 5. But I'd take Insight with much less blue too, because this is the signal. Of course p1 or p2 isn't - but this is p7 and this is a great card.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
Yeah, I guess if I believed Insight was that good I'd consider this a blue signal, so fair enough. For my part, though, I'm not remotely convinced that it's better than Divination outside of its ideal deck (Ux control w/ lots of Inspired creatures and/or heroic creatures that don't want to attack).
It's conditional, more expensive, and takes two turns (during which your creature can't attack or die/get bounced) to catch up to Divination. It only shines if you're triggering Heroic on something that doesn't want to attack (if you want to attack, it's an awful way to get your Heroic trigger), triggering Inspired, and/or using it for several turns (far from a given on a 4-drop that doesn't impact the board, dies to creature and enchantment removal, and won't always be drawn on time).
I'm not sure if I like Insight or Unravel the AEther more. I've only seen Insight once, and it was as nutty as I hoped it would be, but I can see where it can be too little, too late (and its value as a Heroic trigger is moot in UG, since we're not using our new 6/6 Battlemaster to draw.) Instant speed removal looks good to me, though I've only played a fistful of BTT. I'll abstain for now with the caveat that I think Tromper is likely the third pick here.
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My experience with Insight (mainly playing against it, I've only had it myself once) has been that it isn't even good. Mostly their guy got Helixed in response, or they durdled around with it, got a delayed 4-mana Divination and died.
However... other folks really seem to like it, and I was surprised to discover it has a pretty high win percentage (this is a type of card that's prone to some inflation in its win %, but even considering this, the stats are better than I expected them to be). I'm going to vote my own experience and stick with Tromper, but maybe Insight is better than I've seen it be. It's certainly a card I want to be good.
Oracle's Insight should not be considered a blue signal on its own. The card carries all of the usual downsides of an aura and doesn't do anything to help in combat. Of course, it does have an incredibly high upside on top of that. So that means that the card's evaluation is going to be all over the place; a number of players simply won't pick auras like this highly because they don't like to take on that kind of risk with early picks.
That being said - remember how good cantrip auras are? This is a cantrip aura. If you can find a window to stick this, it will at least cantrip (with a scry first, so it's like cantripping into 1.5 cards) and get you a heroic trigger. And if left unchecked, it can generate incredible advantage. The best cantrip auras are the ones that make dorky creatures into threats (Dragon Mantle, Stratus Walk) - this is very much one of those.
I absolutely take Oracle's Insight because I'm already blue. Considering how late we got the Retraction Helix (with a Nullify in the same pack) blue is probably open, and at this point we've absolutely created a green drafter somewhere to our left (quite possibly directly to our left since we passed a pick one Raised by Wolves). It's definitely something to keep in mind going forward.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Considering how late we got the Retraction Helix (with a Nullify in the same pack) blue is probably open, and at this point we've absolutely created a green drafter somewhere to our left (quite possibly directly to our left since we passed a pick one Raised by Wolves). It's definitely something to keep in mind going forward.
I'd think any of these cards could have been picked from our opening pack:
Bolt of Keranos
Akroan Skyguard
Raised by Wolves
Tromokratis
It really depends on what they first picked which they grab out of it.
Considering how late we got the Retraction Helix (with a Nullify in the same pack) blue is probably open, and at this point we've absolutely created a green drafter somewhere to our left (quite possibly directly to our left since we passed a pick one Raised by Wolves). It's definitely something to keep in mind going forward.
I'd think any of these cards could have been picked from our opening pack:
Bolt of Keranos
Akroan Skyguard
Raised by Wolves
Tromokratis
It really depends on what they first picked which they grab out of it.
Oh absolutely. But we did pass a first-pickable green card and a pile of green playables after that. There is a very real possibility that there is a green player one or two seats to our left. Fortunately, green is just flowing like crazy from the right and is pretty deep in Theros, so that doesn't preclude the possibility of still being green, but it's something to be aware of.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
Wait, this isn't an almost unanimous Oracle's Insight? Do people see the Tromper as more than a Hill Giant with a relatively minor upside or something? The card is fine, but it's not a raw card advantage engine in an open color that basically wins the game if not handled in 2 turns.
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Do people see the Tromper as more than a Hill Giant with a relatively minor upside or something?
Yes, absolutely. It's a strong card in general and in this pack it's a clear signal.
(Wouldn't actually pick it here, mind you, but only because Oracle's Insight is here.)
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Wait, this isn't an almost unanimous Oracle's Insight? Do people see the Tromper as more than a Hill Giant with a relatively minor upside or something? The card is fine, but it's not a raw card advantage engine in an open color that basically wins the game if not handled in 2 turns.
Tromper is a good deal better than Hill Giant. If it untaps once it becomes exponentially better and if it untaps twice it becomes terrifying. It's not hard to profitably attack with a 3/3 on turn 5 in this format, especially if you're holding a combat trick. Insight does come online a turn sooner and is more powerful, but it also leaves you vulnerable to a 2-for-1. Both cards can take over games if left unanswered. Insight probably gets the nod because activating it is unconditional
I would have probably picked the Insight, but I didn't see it in the pack when I submitted my post and don't feel like editing it. I don't think it's a snap pick though
"Creature gets better" is the theme of this format, and I don't think Tromper does it particularly well. I rate it as curve-filler, personally, like Ms. Staunchy in a non-Heroic/Cavalry Pegasus deck.
Seriously, though, does no one else think this pick is between Insight and Unravel? I haven't played enough to see if I'm way off base here, but sideways-Naturalize that disrupts Scry seems good in this format. Also, I like having an answer to the Gods in my decks.
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"Creature gets better" is the theme of this format, and I don't think Tromper does it particularly well. I rate it as curve-filler, personally, like Ms. Staunchy in a non-Heroic/Cavalry Pegasus deck.
Seriously, though, does no one else think this pick is between Insight and Unravel? I haven't played enough to see if I'm way off base here, but sideways-Naturalize that disrupts Scry seems good in this format. Also, I like having an answer to the Gods in my decks.
The card gets exponentially better, it doesn't increase its P/T exponentially. The difference between a 3/3 and a 4/4 in this format is huge. Also, this card does a fine job of getting better because it doesn't require any other cards to make it happen as opposed to Heroic creatures
There are other cards that deal with Gods. Not to mention that Gods are mythic so you're not going to see them very often, and the only ones that are really scary without being activated are Phenax, Mogis, and Thassa. The rest can be played around or ignored for the most part. Passing on two solid playables for a sideboard card with a replaceable effect isn't something I want to do here
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In other words, you get a certain number of "luxury" picks in a draft. You can spend them on speculative cards that (like Oracle's Insight) are good in very specific decks, and you can spend them on staying open and searching for your colors. We've spent some picks on the latter; if we move away from blue (as is entirely possible), we'll have spent quite a few picks that way.
I think we were right to do so, but we need to be mindful that we don't have a ton of luxury picks left to work with, and we may need to spend more if we remain unsure of our main colors much longer.
I am feeling like we are in some kind of control deck thusfar, but I think the pick is still Pheres-Band Tromper.I am nothing if not malleable. I change to Oracle's Insight
Edit: I feel like some voters are looking at our card pool and ignoring the sequence in which we've gotten those cards. 2 of our 3 blue cards were p1 and p2, before we had any idea what was open, and our best blue card was taken completely in the dark (i.e., p1p1). We may end up blue, but any sensible analysis of the cards we've been passed would conclude that we have better odds of being green than blue. We should be prioritizing green over blue, and Tromper is the best card in the pack.
I'm fine with either Insight or Tromper so I'll vote Oracle's Insight just to balance it out a bit more.
We'll just have to disagree about both those statements then. I can't imagine not playing Insight - even in aggro it's good because it triggers Heroic and replaces itself, and when it sticks it wins the game. Considering how hard it is to kill creatures in this format, that's a good place to be.
And I say our best blue card was pick 5. But I'd take Insight with much less blue too, because this is the signal. Of course p1 or p2 isn't - but this is p7 and this is a great card.
It's conditional, more expensive, and takes two turns (during which your creature can't attack or die/get bounced) to catch up to Divination. It only shines if you're triggering Heroic on something that doesn't want to attack (if you want to attack, it's an awful way to get your Heroic trigger), triggering Inspired, and/or using it for several turns (far from a given on a 4-drop that doesn't impact the board, dies to creature and enchantment removal, and won't always be drawn on time).
+1 for Tahn laying down the law.
I've only played against it once, and happened to run over that deck. However, I don't think that game was representative.
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However... other folks really seem to like it, and I was surprised to discover it has a pretty high win percentage (this is a type of card that's prone to some inflation in its win %, but even considering this, the stats are better than I expected them to be). I'm going to vote my own experience and stick with Tromper, but maybe Insight is better than I've seen it be. It's certainly a card I want to be good.
That being said - remember how good cantrip auras are? This is a cantrip aura. If you can find a window to stick this, it will at least cantrip (with a scry first, so it's like cantripping into 1.5 cards) and get you a heroic trigger. And if left unchecked, it can generate incredible advantage. The best cantrip auras are the ones that make dorky creatures into threats (Dragon Mantle, Stratus Walk) - this is very much one of those.
I absolutely take Oracle's Insight because I'm already blue. Considering how late we got the Retraction Helix (with a Nullify in the same pack) blue is probably open, and at this point we've absolutely created a green drafter somewhere to our left (quite possibly directly to our left since we passed a pick one Raised by Wolves). It's definitely something to keep in mind going forward.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
But between my experiences with the card and the depth to which we are already in blue, I would take Oracle's Insight without a second thought.
I'd think any of these cards could have been picked from our opening pack:
Bolt of Keranos
Akroan Skyguard
Raised by Wolves
Tromokratis
It really depends on what they first picked which they grab out of it.
Oh absolutely. But we did pass a first-pickable green card and a pile of green playables after that. There is a very real possibility that there is a green player one or two seats to our left. Fortunately, green is just flowing like crazy from the right and is pretty deep in Theros, so that doesn't preclude the possibility of still being green, but it's something to be aware of.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
:dance:Fact or Fiction of the [Limited] Clan:dance:
Yes, absolutely. It's a strong card in general and in this pack it's a clear signal.
(Wouldn't actually pick it here, mind you, but only because Oracle's Insight is here.)
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Tromper is a good deal better than Hill Giant. If it untaps once it becomes exponentially better and if it untaps twice it becomes terrifying. It's not hard to profitably attack with a 3/3 on turn 5 in this format, especially if you're holding a combat trick. Insight does come online a turn sooner and is more powerful, but it also leaves you vulnerable to a 2-for-1. Both cards can take over games if left unanswered. Insight probably gets the nod because activating it is unconditional
I would have probably picked the Insight, but I didn't see it in the pack when I submitted my post and don't feel like editing it. I don't think it's a snap pick though
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It becomes a 9/9?
"Creature gets better" is the theme of this format, and I don't think Tromper does it particularly well. I rate it as curve-filler, personally, like Ms. Staunchy in a non-Heroic/Cavalry Pegasus deck.
Seriously, though, does no one else think this pick is between Insight and Unravel? I haven't played enough to see if I'm way off base here, but sideways-Naturalize that disrupts Scry seems good in this format. Also, I like having an answer to the Gods in my decks.
My Decks:
EDH: Sygg, River Cutthroat , Road to Scion
Grimgrin, Corpseborn
Modern: Polytokes
IRL: Progenitus Polymorph , Goblins
Just a friendly reminder that I will drive this car off a bridge
The card gets exponentially better, it doesn't increase its P/T exponentially. The difference between a 3/3 and a 4/4 in this format is huge. Also, this card does a fine job of getting better because it doesn't require any other cards to make it happen as opposed to Heroic creatures
There are other cards that deal with Gods. Not to mention that Gods are mythic so you're not going to see them very often, and the only ones that are really scary without being activated are Phenax, Mogis, and Thassa. The rest can be played around or ignored for the most part. Passing on two solid playables for a sideboard card with a replaceable effect isn't something I want to do here
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