I am curious, not having had a chance to do any drafting in Theros, if Akroan Crusader is any good in Limited. It seems like one of those "trap" cards that's better on paper than in practice; you'd have to waste a bunch of targeting effects on a 1/1 creature just to make a few other 1/1 tokens that will be outclassed by all the huge creatures in this set.
I hope I'm wrong, because I love the card in theory. Curious what other folks' experience with this card, especially in Draft, have been like.
It has been played against me twice so far and both in R/B decks while I was playing UB control/flyers. It's heroic was triggered twice through two separate games and didn't strongly affect the board. It might be bad in that archetype.
it definitely pairs better with cheap auras then it does with tricks (because who cares if you save your 1/1). there's a few cards that increase it's value (phalanx leader, and akroan hoplite both help your 1/1s be a bit more relevant). it'd be a lot better if we had access to a card like dynacharge
I think that one of the potential strategies to keep the format from becoming glacial is the WR hyper-aggro 'one drop into an ordeal', which requires one drops obviously, but ones you can get late because they are, uh, bad.
The crusader falls into that category of creature with me, along with Priest of Iroas and Yoked Ox.
I think that one of the potential strategies to keep the format from becoming glacial is the WR hyper-aggro 'one drop into an ordeal', which requires one drops obviously, but ones you can get late because they are, uh, bad.
The crusader falls into that category of creature with me, along with Priest of Iroas and Yoked Ox.
I agree there could be a deck in which this card and Favoured Hoplite were good, and maybe even the priest. But I'm never going to jam a yoked ox in an aggressive deck. Like nevereverever.
A guy I drafted with went U/R and drafted a bunch of cheap instants/sorceries that triggered this card's heroic and backed up this with the U/R chimera...
I played against a deck that got him out turn one, and proceeded to deal me tons and tons of damage with him... though that was mostly due to the Dragon Mantle and Prowler's Helm that he got hooked up with...
He seems bad to me. I mean, I love Sporemound, but Sporemound gives me my free 1/1s for doing something I was going to do anyway. Crusader gives me my free 1/1s for doing something that's usually stupid, wasting all of my tricks on an irrelevant creature.
He's good with Triton Tactics. Everything is good with Triton Tactics.
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I've played against him a few times and been wholly unimpressed. Perhaps a critical mass of these and Cavalry Pegasus in a Boros Heroic deck could be a thing?
Interesting article. It gives me the feeling that you think that every card that costs more than 3 sucks, and most cards that cost 3 suck too. And conversely there is no card that costs 1 that is not good.
I've played many games against people who bring out three or four 1/1 for 1 creatures and some cheap tricks and usually at the end after they've been hopelessly outclasses by bigger and more expensive spells on my side and the game is over, I scratch my head and wonder why that player chose the strategy of only playing cards that cost 1 or 2.
But I give you more credit than that, I believe that you are proposing a strategy that has merit and that I just don't understand it very well. In fact I think that's always been one of the weakest aspects of my game - I cannot understand how to make cheap red spells work.
falchionsensei: 10-12 creatures is the appropriate number because most of the deck needs to be filled with enablers to get the engine going. Once it is going, you only need a few threats to close the game. In a normal limited deck, your creatures are trading all the time, requiring a higher number of bodies.
Last night I mulled on the draw and kept a hand full of Coordinated Assaults and Warrior's Lessons. I didn't draw a threat until turn three, an Akroan Crusader, but my opponent still died on turn six despite leaving back ten toughness worth of blockers. During those three turns, I drew five extra cards and generated seven 1/1s.
Last night I mulled on the draw and kept a hand full of Coordinated Assaults and Warrior's Lessons. I didn't draw a threat until turn three, an Akroan Crusader, but my opponent still died on turn six despite leaving back ten toughness worth of blockers. During those three turns, I drew five extra cards and generated seven 1/1s.
Would you say it seemed like your opponent wasn't prepared to deal with early aggression? Or like they didn't respect the threat you were representing on turn 3 (e.g., by not leaving blockers back until it was too late, or by not trying to kill your Crusader immediately)?
I'm trying to understand what you're doing that's making this strategy work. I haven't had a chance to try this approach myself yet, but I've been seeing tons of Rx Heroic aggro (from good players) that sounds a lot like what you describe in your article, and I've only seen it work against decks that were totally unprepared for aggro being viable. The more value-oriented GW and UW Wingsteed Rider Heroic decks have been doing fine, but I haven't seen anyone replicate your success with RW or RG Heroic.
What do you think you're doing (or your opponents aren't doing) that's making it so successful?
Most formats, in both limited and constructed, have this thing where fast decks usually get beaten by slightly slower decks, which get beaten by significantly slower decks, which get beaten by much slower decks, which get beaten by fast decks.
It's easy to see that when people start going for 7-mana spells, the deck that wants to win by turn 4 is going to be strong. I kinda wonder, though, how it performs against people who expect it and play stuff like Triton Tactics, Boon of Erebos, and God's Willing, alongside the Voyage's Ends and Griptides they're already playing, instead of passing them to the Heroic player.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
The important point is that it's a 1-drop heroic creature. In terms of potential damage output, it's just as good as Favored Hoplite (+1 permanent hasty power for each heroic trigger). It is notable that Hoplite can get an Ordeal to pop on turn 3, but also that Akroan Crusader is a common while Hoplite is an uncommon. The other 1-drop heroic creature (Tormented Hero) is also an uncommon (and its value is less dependent on its heroic ability), so Akroan Crusaders are usually going to be the core 1-drops for a deck on the cheap heroes plan.
The Crusader is conditionally 2 power for 1 mana with potential further upside, so it's pretty worth it in a deck built around that gameplan.
(Also, earlier in the thread someone mentioned Priest of Iroas as being only good in certain decks, but it's probably better to think of that card as primarily enchantment removal that can also attack and block rather than as primarily an irrelevant creature, the former of which is pretty good in a format with bestow creatures. The value of Akroan Crusader or Favored Hoplite depends on whether you can reliably trigger heroic, but Priest of Iroas is fine as maindeck enchantment removal even if you don't have a heroic gameplan... as long as you're in both its colors.)
(Incidentally, earlier today I was working out Magical Christmasland paths to turn 3 kills in standard, and I determined that, aside from Elvish Mystic, Akroan Crusader and Favored Hoplite are pretty much the best 1-drop creatures for that sort of thing, which could tell you something about their potential when built around. An Akroan Crusader + 4x Titan's Strength wins on turn 3, for instance, though that of course is far too unlikely to occur anywhere really, even if it's technically possible in 3x THS.)
Would you say it seemed like your opponent wasn't prepared to deal with early aggression? Or like they didn't respect the threat you were representing on turn 3 (e.g., by not leaving blockers back until it was too late, or by not trying to kill your Crusader immediately)?
I'm trying to understand what you're doing that's making this strategy work. I haven't had a chance to try this approach myself yet, but I've been seeing tons of Rx Heroic aggro (from good players) that sounds a lot like what you describe in your article, and I've only seen it work against decks that were totally unprepared for aggro being viable. The more value-oriented GW and UW Wingsteed Rider Heroic decks have been doing fine, but I haven't seen anyone replicate your success with RW or RG Heroic.
What do you think you're doing (or your opponents aren't doing) that's making it so successful?
My opponent went turn two two drop, turn three three drop, turn four two drop + trick, turn five spear of heliod, turn six play a flyer (representing lethal), left his team back, and died. At one point I had to chump with a token, and he made a block somewhere in the middle that got eaten by a trick. Having multiple enablers that target multiple creatures helped me power through despite my weak start (no threats until turn three).
I'm not surprised that you haven't seen it come together, and a lot of draft groups think it's an eighteen land format (heh). That I was doing something wildly different and having such good results was why I thought it was worth a full article.
Already, someone in the forums mentioned how they forced the archetype, train wrecked a bit, and swept the draft anyway. That's because the deck is doing more powerful things than the rest of the format.
@CalebD - I'm curious about something: would you say the viability of this deck is currently high mostly because people don't realise how good it is?
I ask because it sounds like one of those archetypes that's super vulnerable to not getting the right cards. I'm thinking of - for example - the G/R Pit-Skulk deck from RGD. If you got all the parts it just crushed people. But if you didn't then instead of getting slightly worse it just scooped to everything.
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I did ok with a R/W aggro build. I like the white heroic creatures more, with Favored Hoplite especially being a massive beating, but the Akroan Crusaders are ok if you have the ordeals, dragon's cloaks and double targets to suit them up effectively. I did not in my deck, making them much worse, but they still poke in early and fly with cavalry pegasus.
The one thing I don't really like about it is that it feels very dependent on getting certain uncommons. Ordeals are uncommon, as are all the target 2s, and the white/blue/red target 2s should be high picks for almost anyone in those colors.
I do think heroic is a very strong strategy though. I'm more partial to white, with a lot of bestow creatures to smooth the curve, but aggro is definitely a thing and you have to respect it or get smashed. I would agree that this is not a durdly 18 land format; I was swinging with a 8/13 lifelink vigilance on turn 5 with one of my heroic decks.
My opponent went turn two two drop, turn three three drop, turn four two drop + trick, turn five spear of heliod, turn six play a flyer (representing lethal), left his team back, and died.
Do you mean left them back every turn or only on the 6th? Would it have made a difference if he had appreciated the aggressiveness of your deck and kept back blockers every turn?
Also, I'd think that the crusader awkwardness is that you need to play your combat tricks in your main phase to get your attacking token on the same turn. Did you do that or did you wait until after blockers and didn't mind getting the uselessly-hasty tokens later?
I took the advice in this thread and tried building a heroic draft deck along these principles. It's pretty good, but I can't say I like it much. Yeah, it has the nut turn four kill, but it feels way inconsistent to me. Unless you get out a turn 1 enabler, the deck is just not up to par.
I mulliganed into hands containing an enabler, and regularly got them answered by people who took them seriously. A couple times I got a crazy turn 4 kill and there wasn't much people could do about it, but other than that, people seemed very prepared to deal with this strategy, and it doesn't exactly have any staying power when you're mulliganing aggressively.
Am I doing it wrong, or am I just playing against people who are less greedy for the 2-for-1, and are therefore maintaining a strong win percentage? Or were there just not enough enablers coming around to make it work?
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Well, maybe it was just my flight, but many people are building aggro decks, and they're harder to deal with than I expected. In sealed pre-release last night I faced two aggressive decks (RW and BG) out of four rounds and got beaten by the RW one. He did have all the ingredients:
I hope I'm wrong, because I love the card in theory. Curious what other folks' experience with this card, especially in Draft, have been like.
He seems a million times better if you have copies of any of these.
phalanx leader
bident of thassa
purphoros, god of the forge
spear of heliod
Best video games of all time:
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3. Super Mario 64
2. Ocarina of Time
1. Cave Story
^ Seriously, play it and thank me later.
The crusader falls into that category of creature with me, along with Priest of Iroas and Yoked Ox.
I agree there could be a deck in which this card and Favoured Hoplite were good, and maybe even the priest. But I'm never going to jam a yoked ox in an aggressive deck. Like nevereverever.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
It won games pretty quickly
He seems bad to me. I mean, I love Sporemound, but Sporemound gives me my free 1/1s for doing something I was going to do anyway. Crusader gives me my free 1/1s for doing something that's usually stupid, wasting all of my tricks on an irrelevant creature.
He's good with Triton Tactics. Everything is good with Triton Tactics.
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If you don't mind me asking, were you happy having only 10 creatures in your BR nut deck? How many more threats would you have liked, if not?
Interesting article. It gives me the feeling that you think that every card that costs more than 3 sucks, and most cards that cost 3 suck too. And conversely there is no card that costs 1 that is not good.
I've played many games against people who bring out three or four 1/1 for 1 creatures and some cheap tricks and usually at the end after they've been hopelessly outclasses by bigger and more expensive spells on my side and the game is over, I scratch my head and wonder why that player chose the strategy of only playing cards that cost 1 or 2.
But I give you more credit than that, I believe that you are proposing a strategy that has merit and that I just don't understand it very well. In fact I think that's always been one of the weakest aspects of my game - I cannot understand how to make cheap red spells work.
Last night I mulled on the draw and kept a hand full of Coordinated Assaults and Warrior's Lessons. I didn't draw a threat until turn three, an Akroan Crusader, but my opponent still died on turn six despite leaving back ten toughness worth of blockers. During those three turns, I drew five extra cards and generated seven 1/1s.
bji_again: Hah, fair assessment.
I'm trying to understand what you're doing that's making this strategy work. I haven't had a chance to try this approach myself yet, but I've been seeing tons of Rx Heroic aggro (from good players) that sounds a lot like what you describe in your article, and I've only seen it work against decks that were totally unprepared for aggro being viable. The more value-oriented GW and UW Wingsteed Rider Heroic decks have been doing fine, but I haven't seen anyone replicate your success with RW or RG Heroic.
What do you think you're doing (or your opponents aren't doing) that's making it so successful?
It's easy to see that when people start going for 7-mana spells, the deck that wants to win by turn 4 is going to be strong. I kinda wonder, though, how it performs against people who expect it and play stuff like Triton Tactics, Boon of Erebos, and God's Willing, alongside the Voyage's Ends and Griptides they're already playing, instead of passing them to the Heroic player.
Unless you don't have enough Heroic cards, I wouldn't play this card.
The Crusader is conditionally 2 power for 1 mana with potential further upside, so it's pretty worth it in a deck built around that gameplan.
(Also, earlier in the thread someone mentioned Priest of Iroas as being only good in certain decks, but it's probably better to think of that card as primarily enchantment removal that can also attack and block rather than as primarily an irrelevant creature, the former of which is pretty good in a format with bestow creatures. The value of Akroan Crusader or Favored Hoplite depends on whether you can reliably trigger heroic, but Priest of Iroas is fine as maindeck enchantment removal even if you don't have a heroic gameplan... as long as you're in both its colors.)
(Incidentally, earlier today I was working out Magical Christmasland paths to turn 3 kills in standard, and I determined that, aside from Elvish Mystic, Akroan Crusader and Favored Hoplite are pretty much the best 1-drop creatures for that sort of thing, which could tell you something about their potential when built around. An Akroan Crusader + 4x Titan's Strength wins on turn 3, for instance, though that of course is far too unlikely to occur anywhere really, even if it's technically possible in 3x THS.)
My opponent went turn two two drop, turn three three drop, turn four two drop + trick, turn five spear of heliod, turn six play a flyer (representing lethal), left his team back, and died. At one point I had to chump with a token, and he made a block somewhere in the middle that got eaten by a trick. Having multiple enablers that target multiple creatures helped me power through despite my weak start (no threats until turn three).
I'm not surprised that you haven't seen it come together, and a lot of draft groups think it's an eighteen land format (heh). That I was doing something wildly different and having such good results was why I thought it was worth a full article.
Already, someone in the forums mentioned how they forced the archetype, train wrecked a bit, and swept the draft anyway. That's because the deck is doing more powerful things than the rest of the format.
I ask because it sounds like one of those archetypes that's super vulnerable to not getting the right cards. I'm thinking of - for example - the G/R Pit-Skulk deck from RGD. If you got all the parts it just crushed people. But if you didn't then instead of getting slightly worse it just scooped to everything.
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The one thing I don't really like about it is that it feels very dependent on getting certain uncommons. Ordeals are uncommon, as are all the target 2s, and the white/blue/red target 2s should be high picks for almost anyone in those colors.
I do think heroic is a very strong strategy though. I'm more partial to white, with a lot of bestow creatures to smooth the curve, but aggro is definitely a thing and you have to respect it or get smashed. I would agree that this is not a durdly 18 land format; I was swinging with a 8/13 lifelink vigilance on turn 5 with one of my heroic decks.
Do you mean left them back every turn or only on the 6th? Would it have made a difference if he had appreciated the aggressiveness of your deck and kept back blockers every turn?
Also, I'd think that the crusader awkwardness is that you need to play your combat tricks in your main phase to get your attacking token on the same turn. Did you do that or did you wait until after blockers and didn't mind getting the uselessly-hasty tokens later?
My deck:
2 Akroan Hoplite
1 Two-Headed Cerberus
1 Fabled Hero
1 Cavalry Pegasus
1 Priest of Iroas
1 Minotaur Scullcleaver
1 Satyr Rambler
2 God's Willing
2 Battlewise Valor
1 Chosen by Heliod
1 Ordeal of Heliod
1 Ordeal of Purphuros
1 Coordinated Assault
1 Dauntless Onslaught
1 Last Breath
8 Mountain
7 Plains
I mulliganed into hands containing an enabler, and regularly got them answered by people who took them seriously. A couple times I got a crazy turn 4 kill and there wasn't much people could do about it, but other than that, people seemed very prepared to deal with this strategy, and it doesn't exactly have any staying power when you're mulliganing aggressively.
Am I doing it wrong, or am I just playing against people who are less greedy for the 2-for-1, and are therefore maintaining a strong win percentage? Or were there just not enough enablers coming around to make it work?
1 Dragon mantle
1 Fanatic of Mogis
1 flamespeaker adept
2 rage of purphoros
1 akroan hoplite
1 battlewise valor
1 dauntless assault
The double rage of purphoros were very effective in preventing me from mounting any defense. The uncommon (flamespeaker, hoplite) were brutal.
(For those wondering what a BG aggro looks like:)
2 whip of erebos
1 grey merchant of asphodel
1 scourgemark
1 staunch-hearted warrior
2 warrior's lesson
(Obviously these are partial deck, just the card that I saw and remembered.)